[IC]GMK Triumph Adler [LIVE!!!!]

[hjc1710]

3. Printed W98 (2nd worst Win OS ever I have to say!)

You're trying to tell me that both Vista and ME were better then 98? I call foul play sir.

I say modern Windows 7 or 8 would be good.  If we're just doing the Windows 95 logo because it's retro, it's really the wrong time frame.  If you want the appropriate Windows logo, it should be something like the Windows 2.0 logo for a Triumph Adler machine, so something like this:

Show Image

I go, in order, Windows 7 or 8, pad printed Windows 2.0, pad printed Win 95, blank.

I kinda love the Windows 2.0 logo... I'd be incredibly pleased with a pad printed version of that.

As a side note, I just now noticed differences/defects on my pad printed winkeys that my 14 year old G80-11900 has. So, I imagine GMK pad printing durability is solid.

[bueller]

Yeah I have no problems with pad printing because of durability, it's the visible difference between DS and pad printed that irks me.

[Karura]

I'd say go with the modern times, and go with the most cutting edge Win8 Logo

Doubleshot for the win... ... get it?

[whentheclouds]

i think intelli and photekq were very deliberate when they chose the legends, and at this point i'm not sure if they'll compromise the integrity of the set by going back to the modern windows logo. in this case i'll go along with what i perceive to be the 'artistic intent' the gb runners have in mind.

[krunchwrap]

I couldn't be more excited for this set. Since I saw that blog post I've been pumped! I love the choice in Windows keys and I think it really makes for a classic looking set.

[sethk_]

I couldn't be more excited for this set. Since I saw that blog post I've been pumped! I love the choice in Windows keys and I think it really makes for a classic looking set.

I agree. We should just stick with the Windows key that has been chosen already

[taylordcraig]

My vote is for the already chosen key or blank.

[CommonCurt]

My vote is for the already chosen key or blank.

+1  same here.

[intelli78]

I got the color chips today. Here is the most accurate photo I could get, at least viewed on my Retina MBP screen. IMO, the "teal" doesn't have enough blue in it.



Board in background is HHKB.

[intelli78]

Some additional possibilities:



Compare to the current ones:

[skcheng]

Some additional possibilities:

Show Image

Compare to the current ones:

Show Image

I think I prefer the current ones.   The 7476C looks a bit "green" and the Cool Gray 4 C looks like dirty off-white.   But that's just my opinion.   

Which color are closest to the original Triumph Adler?   

[exitfire401]

Some additional possibilities:

Show Image

Compare to the current ones:

Show Image

I think I prefer the current ones.   The 7476C looks a bit "green" and the Cool Gray 4 C looks like dirty off-white.   But that's just my opinion.   

Which color are closest to the original Triumph Adler?

This. I completely prefer the current ones. The warm grey suits the set the best and the teal/blue look spot on.

[intelli78]

More teals:  3155 and 7470 look like the most interesting alternatives here.

[intelli78]

Which color are closest to the original Triumph Adler?

It's not an easy question since we're working with JPG sources and each board is different. The 3 I originally picked are the closest colors to Josh's board, according to multiple samples in Photoshop.

However, in real life, the 5473 is more dark green than teal, I think that's visible in my photo. It looks pretty perfect in the screenshot from the Pantone site but like I said I wish it had a little more blue IRL.

[geniekid]

Keep in mind if your monitor isn't properly calibrated (or just has poor color accuracy in general) that you will not be seeing the *actual* colors represented by the images that intelli78 is posting.  I think a lot of us will just have to trust him on this one

[nubbinator]

I think we should be focused on what looks best, not on what's the closest to 100% accurate.  Remember, every set we've seen looks different due to differences in how they've aged.  As such, accuracy is not a perfect ideal you can strive toward.  Aesthetics, on the other hand, is.

Edit: auto-correct hates me.

[radio_killah]

I am a little confused as to how we can even come to a consensus when there is variability between what people are seeing on their monitors. What Intelli is seeing on his calibrated retina display is definitely not the same as what others have.

I trust Intelli's intuition as to what looks best and what represents the original TA set best.

As for windows keys, eh. I thought the layout of the set was set in stone.

[Heliosphere]

More teals:  3155 and 7470 look like the most interesting alternatives here.

Show Image

Is it possible for you to get all of these color chips so you can compare them side by side, then pick the one that looks the best? I think the current grey and blue are good fits.

[intelli78]

Keep in mind if your monitor isn't properly calibrated (or just has poor color accuracy in general) that you will not be seeing the *actual* colors represented by the images that intelli78 is posting.  I think a lot of us will just have to trust him on this one

I am a little confused as to how we can even come to a consensus when there is variability between what people are seeing on their monitors. What Intelli is seeing on his calibrated retina display is definitely not the same as what others have.

I trust Intelli's intuition as to what looks best and what represents the original TA set best.

As for windows keys, eh. I thought the layout of the set was set in stone.

Yes, to a large degree me sharing this info may be doing more harm than good, as only folks with factory calibrated retina MBP monitors are likely to see what I'm seeing. (And maybe not even all those, as calibrations and manufacturers can vary even on the same MacBook models.)

If we really wanted to be looking at the same photos, we'd all have to order Spyders or similar products.

However, one good thing about Pantone colors is that they have real life reference points, so anybody who can get access to Pantone color books can see what I'm seeing in person.

I think we should be focused on what looks best, not on what's the closest to 100% accurate.  Remember, every set we've seen looks different due to differences in how they've aged.  As such, accuracy is not a perfect ideal you can strive toward.  Aesthetics, on the other hand, is.

Edit: auto-correct hates me.

I understand what you're saying and I basically agree. That said, what I am trying to achieve is not necessarily "accuracy" in the abstract as much as copying Josh's photos from the OP (the first 3 photos in particular). No, we won't be able to duplicate it 100% either, but I'd like to get the teal a little closer, as the 5473 is really just a dark green with no blue.

It sounds like everyone is pretty much OK with the gray and blue, and I'm content to call those good enough.

More teals:  3155 and 7470 look like the most interesting alternatives here.

Show Image

Is it possible for you to get all of these color chips so you can compare them side by side, then pick the one that looks the best? I think the current grey and blue are good fits.

Yes, most of them. I have to order individual Pantone catalog pages (each page only has 7 colors; the whole catalog is thousands of dollars). Of the different teals I just posted, I just ordered all the associated pages that Hyatt's has in stock. This will give me quite a few new options to consider, and hopefully one of them will be good enough.

Should receive the additional pages in 2-3 days, and will post an update then.

[pr0ximity]

Very cool, thanks for all the diligence you're putting into this. I agree that too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the soup.

[intelli78]

I agree that too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the soup.

Good way of putting it.

[hjc1710]

It sounds like everyone is pretty much OK with the gray and blue, and I'm content to call those good enough.

Is it possible for you to get all of these color chips so you can compare them side by side, then pick the one that looks the best? I think the current grey and blue are good fits.

Yes, most of them. I have to order individual Pantone catalog pages (each page only has 7 colors; the whole catalog is thousands of dollars). Of the different teals I just posted, I just ordered all the associated pages that Hyatt's has in stock. This will give me quite a few new options to consider, and hopefully one of them will be good enough.

Should receive the additional pages in 2-3 days, and will post an update then.

First off, thanks for doing this intelli and staying so damn devoted. I really appreciate all the little things you're doing here, like going through Pantone colors so we all can have a point of reference, if we really want one.

Second I agree with you entirely, the blue and grey pantone colors are perfect, drop dead sexy. I nearly lost it when I turned off f.lux to really take them in. But the teal definitely needs more blue. That's just a dark or sea green.

<3 intelli! Keep it up!

[intelli78]

^ My man
Thanks for the positivity.

[luckyryan333]

It sounds like everyone is pretty much OK with the gray and blue, and I'm content to call those good enough.

Is it possible for you to get all of these color chips so you can compare them side by side, then pick the one that looks the best? I think the current grey and blue are good fits.

Yes, most of them. I have to order individual Pantone catalog pages (each page only has 7 colors; the whole catalog is thousands of dollars). Of the different teals I just posted, I just ordered all the associated pages that Hyatt's has in stock. This will give me quite a few new options to consider, and hopefully one of them will be good enough.

Should receive the additional pages in 2-3 days, and will post an update then.

First off, thanks for doing this intelli and staying so damn devoted. I really appreciate all the little things you're doing here, like going through Pantone colors so we all can have a point of reference, if we really want one.

Second I agree with you entirely, the blue and grey pantone colors are perfect, drop dead sexy. I nearly lost it when I turned off f.lux to really take them in. But the teal definitely needs more blue. That's just a dark or sea green.

<3 intelli! Keep it up!

+1

Go for it, intelli!

[taylordcraig]

Which color are closest to the original Triumph Adler?

It's not an easy question since we're working with JPG sources and each board is different. The 3 I originally picked are the closest colors to Josh's board, according to multiple samples in Photoshop.

However, in real life, the 5473 is more dark green than teal, I think that's visible in my photo. It looks pretty perfect in the screenshot from the Pantone site but like I said I wish it had a little more blue IRL.

I agree the photo you've provided looks darker than the image of the same pantone color.
Go with your gut and get that nice deep teal color.

I agree that too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the soup.

Good way of putting it.

I agree here too. Your earlier sentiments mirror mine; I trust you to make the right choice.

[Karura]

While I enjoy discussion about legends and what not (if you've noticed, I often post "this legend vs that legend threads"), I want to echo the sentiment that I respect the decisions made by intelli, which I'm sure has been made with care and thoughtfulness, so let's just move on with the GB!

When can we expect this to go up on MD? I don't want to miss it.

[spookydoge]

Pad printed winkey would definitely be a dealbreaker for me because of the looks, my vote goes to blanks.

[sethk_]

Pad printed winkey would definitely be a dealbreaker for me because of the looks, my vote goes to blanks.

You are really going to miss out on this chance to own the first, and probably only custom color GMK kit because of the windows key? And is that because of the design, or pad print? Because from what I have head, is that the pad print on GMK sets is high quality, and is the winkey used that much for it to wear away?

[jdcarpe]

That was kinda my point about the winkey. With an MOQ of 500, it would probably make sense to make it the double shot Win8 logo. The more people who opt out because of a pad printed key, or a 20-year-old logo, in a double shot set, the sadder this will become.

But that, of course, is entirely up to intelli78.

[nubbinator]

Pad printing from GMK is high quality, but it makes a texture and look difference.  That and the intent is for a retro symbol,but it's the wrong one for the time frame of the board.

[jdcarpe]

Pad printing from GMK is high quality, but it makes a texture and look difference.  That and the intent is for a retro symbol,but it's the wrong one for the time frame of the board.

You and I understand that, but will the average MD user? That's the whole point of using MD...to open this up to more potential orders.

[sethk_]

Pad printing from GMK is high quality, but it makes a texture and look difference.  That and the intent is for a retro symbol,but it's the wrong one for the time frame of the board.

You and I understand that, but will the average MD user? That's the whole point of using MD...to open this up to more potential orders.

Well, they won't really notice that at a max, 2 keys out of 100+ are pad printed, and honestly, I would kick myself for missing it only because of 2 keys that are pad printed. I feel like I would rather have a full mod set with text and symbols, then having the blanks.

[jdcarpe]

Pad printing from GMK is high quality, but it makes a texture and look difference.  That and the intent is for a retro symbol,but it's the wrong one for the time frame of the board.

You and I understand that, but will the average MD user? That's the whole point of using MD...to open this up to more potential orders.

Well, they won't really notice that at a max, 2 keys out of 100+ are pad printed, and honestly, I would kick myself for missing it only because of 2 keys that are pad printed. I feel like I would rather have a full mod set with text and symbols, then having the blanks.

You don't think it will be brought up in the discussion at Massdrop??

[sethk_]

Pad printing from GMK is high quality, but it makes a texture and look difference.  That and the intent is for a retro symbol,but it's the wrong one for the time frame of the board.

You and I understand that, but will the average MD user? That's the whole point of using MD...to open this up to more potential orders.

Well, they won't really notice that at a max, 2 keys out of 100+ are pad printed, and honestly, I would kick myself for missing it only because of 2 keys that are pad printed. I feel like I would rather have a full mod set with text and symbols, then having the blanks.

You don't think it will be brought up in the discussion at Massdrop??

I do, but I feel like with an ample description as to why would be understandable. MD and r/mk/ aren't all retarded, they just think PBT doubleshot is the standard and only acceptable keycaps to put on their boards, and that can be fixed with explanations.

[jdcarpe]

I do, but I feel like with an ample description as to why would be understandable. MD and r/mk/ aren't all retarded, they just think PBT doubleshot is the standard and only acceptable keycaps to put on their boards, and that can be fixed with explanations.

I'm not saying MD users or r/MK subscribers are retarded, far from it. But you have people HERE who understand the difference saying they won't buy in if it's A) pad printed or B) Win95 logo. Not a good sign when the MOQ is 500.

GMK pad printing for those keys is very good. I know that firsthand, because I own quite a few vintage Cherry sets. But not everyone agrees. FYI, I'm using a set of vintage Cherry WoB DS at this very moment, with some double shot Win8 logo keys from Ivan's GMK Dolch buy (and some RGB from EK), and I really like the Win8 logo keys.

[sethk_]

I do, but I feel like with an ample description as to why would be understandable. MD and r/mk/ aren't all retarded, they just think PBT doubleshot is the standard and only acceptable keycaps to put on their boards, and that can be fixed with explanations.

I'm not saying MD users or r/MK subscribers are retarded, far from it. But you have people HERE who understand the difference saying they won't buy in if it's A) pad printed or B) Win95 logo. Not a good sign when the MOQ is 500.

GMK pad printing for those keys is very good. I know that firsthand, because I own quite a few vintage Cherry sets. But not everyone agrees. FYI, I'm using a set of vintage Cherry WoB DS at this very moment, with some double shot Win8 logo keys from Ivan's GMK Dolch buy (and some RGB from EK), and I really like the Win8 logo keys.

Ah, I just have a pull towards the 95 logo, it's my favorite one GMK has. Not a deal breaker for me if we go to blanks or 8,  I just prefer the 95.

[CommonCurt]

intelli78,

I beg of you.  Please stay away from dat win8 logo.

[whentheclouds]

But you have people HERE who understand the difference saying they won't buy in if it's A) pad printed or B) Win95 logo. Not a good sign when the MOQ is 500.

the set is already so condensed, any decision intelli makes or doesn't make will impact some individuals' decision to partake. change it to blanks or win8 keys and i'm sure a couple posters will opt out due to the loss of retro aesthetic or whatever other reason. with the conditions this IC operates under (high moq low keys), it's just impossible to please everyone

[jdcarpe]

If people feel that strongly about the logo (either the Win95 or Win8), why not just include both? It would increase the price of the set like $1. And would appease both groups who say "I'm definitely not buying in if the logo is _____."

It's hard to go back once you've said "the design is locked in" but sometimes compromise is necessary for the good of the buy. I had to accept that lesson myself in Hack'd By Geeks.

[strict]

I'll be surprised if the pad printed win key doesnt become a lightning rod topic on MassDrop. I'm not even convinced and I've been following this thread for a while now.

[nubbinator]

Changing it to blanks will have a massive impact, I doubt W7 or W8 logos will make that much of a difference, especially when it's taking a turn for consistency of all doubleshots vs. a mix of pad printed and DS.  I know the pad printed Windows keys is not a dealbreaker for me, but it is a massive disappointment that I think is a negative for the set.  I also know people who are less informed won't like it since they're used to ****ty pad printing that starts to wear off in a year.  It has the potential to really derail the buy.  It would be better off having an extra pair of DS winkeys alongside the pad printed or switching to DS, at least in my experiences with the less informed.

I mean, as it is, just look at the comments surrounding GMK Hyperfuse on Reddit.  A ton of people were bashing it for being ABS, not understanding how good it is.  Expect that level of understanding or lower from Massdrop buyers.

[sethk_]

I do, but I feel like with an ample description as to why would be understandable. MD and r/mk/ aren't all retarded, they just think PBT doubleshot is the standard and only acceptable keycaps to put on their boards, and that can be fixed with explanations.

I'm not saying MD users or r/MK subscribers are retarded, far from it. But you have people HERE who understand the difference saying they won't buy in if it's A) pad printed or B) Win95 logo. Not a good sign when the MOQ is 500.

GMK pad printing for those keys is very good. I know that firsthand, because I own quite a few vintage Cherry sets. But not everyone agrees. FYI, I'm using a set of vintage Cherry WoB DS at this very moment, with some double shot Win8 logo keys from Ivan's GMK Dolch buy (and some RGB from EK), and I really like the Win8 logo keys.

Ah, I just have a pull towards the 95 logo, it's my favorite one GMK has. Not a deal breaker for me if we go to blanks or 8,  I just prefer the 95.

[strict]

If people feel that strongly about the logo (either the Win95 or Win8), why not just include both? It would increase the price of the set like $1. And would appease both groups who say "I'm definitely not buying in if the logo is _____."

It's hard to go back once you've said "the design is locked in" but sometimes compromise is necessary for the good of the buy. I had to accept that lesson myself in Hack'd By Geeks.

I like this idea. Without hesitation I would spend a couple extra dollars to get both. It would let me see first hand what GMK pad printing is like AND get me a nice double-shot Win8 key that I would actually use.

[whentheclouds]

don't forget that we'd need a corresponding version of the context menu key as well

[hjc1710]

If people feel that strongly about the logo (either the Win95 or Win8), why not just include both? It would increase the price of the set like $1. And would appease both groups who say "I'm definitely not buying in if the logo is _____."

It's hard to go back once you've said "the design is locked in" but sometimes compromise is necessary for the good of the buy. I had to accept that lesson myself in Hack'd By Geeks.

I love this idea, absolutely. Best of both worlds, and I can swap between retro and modern .

However whentheclouds has a good point, we need a DS menu key. And we might need DS 1u's for the Tsangan kit. So, now we're at 5 extra caps, so more than a buck, but probably only like $3-5, something I'd be thrilled to pay, not sure about the average MD audience member though.

However, one could make the argument that many Tsangan users will be fine with the pad printed 1u's and will want the retro look anyway (they are using retro boards or at least a more retro layout, after all), or will be totally WKL and won't need it. So, we might be able to keep it to just 3. As someone who would very likely be using the Tsangan kit, I can say I'd be fine with pad printed 1u's if it means the buy succeeds (but I'd rather have both ).

[bueller]

If people feel that strongly about the logo (either the Win95 or Win8), why not just include both? It would increase the price of the set like $1. And would appease both groups who say "I'm definitely not buying in if the logo is _____."

It's hard to go back once you've said "the design is locked in" but sometimes compromise is necessary for the good of the buy. I had to accept that lesson myself in Hack'd By Geeks.

For me I feel like this would have the best outcome. Minimal price increase (which shouldn't be a problem as a final price hasn't been declared) and people can pick and choose as they please. Honestly I'm probably going to bail out if there isn't a DS option for the winkey, I don't care which one gets chosen but I have no urge to buy a set that's not 100% double-shot. It's not about the durability, it's about the look for me as they pad-printed keys stick out like a dogs bollocks in a set where every other key is DS.

don't forget that we'd need a corresponding version of the context menu key as well

Pretty sure the context key is already double shot.

[spookydoge]

I believe it would make the most sense to make a poll to decide on which winkey design to use and also include blanks.
That way, the majority gets the design they want and the rest doesn't have to use a design/printing method they don't like.
While this would raise the price by a Dollar or two, this should make everyone happy who's considering not getting the set because of the winkeys.

[intelli78]

There will not be a poll or any additional keys. I am thinking about what to do about the winkey and I will make a decision in the next day or two. That and the colors. Nothing else is subject to change. I have heard people's concerns about the Winkeys and I am taking them seriously.

[spookydoge]

Pad printed winkey would definitely be a dealbreaker for me because of the looks, my vote goes to blanks.

You are really going to miss out on this chance to own the first, and probably only custom color GMK kit because of the windows key? And is that because of the design, or pad print? Because from what I have head, is that the pad print on GMK sets is high quality, and is the winkey used that much for it to wear away?

While I hate the design, it's mostly because of the pad printing, as I want a consistent look. I think blanks would make the most sense as we won't agree on a winkey design that makes everyone happy.

[billnye]

Pad printed winkey would definitely be a dealbreaker for me because of the looks, my vote goes to blanks.

You are really going to miss out on this chance to own the first, and probably only custom color GMK kit because of the windows key? And is that because of the design, or pad print? Because from what I have head, is that the pad print on GMK sets is high quality, and is the winkey used that much for it to wear away?

While I hate the design, it's mostly because of the pad printing, as I want a consistent look. I think blanks would make the most sense as we won't agree on a winkey design that makes everyone happy.

Have you seen a GMK pad printed key?