Soldering - A comedy

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Success and failure.

I just finished my first row of desolding switches. I have very minimal soldering experience, and was trying to talk myself out of doing it today. Just do it tomorrow, why you gotta do it now? But I was bored, and couldn't actually convince myself of a good reason.

Now, it's a QFR board, picked it up from moose. both rings on one LED were already burnt, but the leads were soldered down to their respective PCB paths. I don't have a filco cable yet, so I can't test if that LED works, but it's a moot point now.

I had some issue getting the first couple ones up. Having trouble getting the soldering iron out of the way, and the soldapullt in there quick enough, and after I had to solder and desolder the fourth one maybe, 5 or 6 times before I could get it all out, I realized I didn't have to move the soldering iron out of the way. I thought I had to try and get the soldapullt flush on the board, but I can just come in at an angle, and it'll suck it all out.

The rest went pretty quick at that point. I probably spent 20 minutes on the f-row. Went to go pop out the switches, which went well, once I decided to use a bottlecap to do it, until I got to the LED switches I had forgotten to desolder. I was so goddamn confused. The first LED was easy, went quick, didn't ruin anything, but then burnt out the little metal circles (name?) on the second one. So this will be a no LED board. No big deal.

Overall, I would call soldering a success, and I wont be ****ing with LEDs until I have significantly more experience.

And if anyone's interested I'm using a Yihua 936 ($15), Soldapullt ($18), More Kester Solder than I can imagine ever using (like $25) and some Edsyn tip tinner ($12)

Also, I should slow down a bit, because I wont put it back together until I've got my new plate.

[badcop]

its nice to see more people modding.  desoldering can be really tricky when you first start but after a while, you'll know exactly when its time to pop it out.  its a trial and error thing.  i've been soldering for about 5 years and im still improving every time.  Good luck with your project 

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Decided to do a few more before i went to work, and my god has my technique already improved.
I'd like to think Ive taken to it quite well, and i cant wait until my plate and case come in.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Okay, question.

The qfr controller. I got lucky enough to pick up a board with a custom frosty flake controller. Are qfr the only ones thay can fit this controller? Where is the filco and leupold controllers?

I was hoping to upgrade the pcb at some point, and use the frosty flake again. But I might just have to find another qfr pcb so i can have one with LEDs

[gnubag]

Okay, question.

The qfr controller. I got lucky enough to pick up a board with a custom frosty flake controller. Are qfr the only ones thay can fit this controller? Where is the filco and leupold controllers?

I was hoping to upgrade the pcb at some point, and use the frosty flake again. But I might just have to find another qfr pcb so i can have one with LEDs

filco tkl have their own custom controller and the FF would physically not fit anyway.
i would assume that the matrix of the leopolds are different so they would not work with the controller either.

[kinruan]

Nice job!! once you are good at soldering, try heat guns, i love them, they are more efficient.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Okay, question.

The qfr controller. I got lucky enough to pick up a board with a custom frosty flake controller. Are qfr the only ones thay can fit this controller? Where is the filco and leupold controllers?

I was hoping to upgrade the pcb at some point, and use the frosty flake again. But I might just have to find another qfr pcb so i can have one with LEDs

filco tkl have their own custom controller and the FF would physically not fit anyway.
i would assume that the matrix of the leopolds are different so they would not work with the controller either.

That's what I had assumed. Is it possible to maybe send my QFR to somebody and get a custom board done to the same specs, but with better materials and different colors? Anybody know where I could find somebody to do that for me, at an MOQ of 1? Or would other people potentially be interested in QFR style custom PCBs?

[gnubag]

Okay, question.

The qfr controller. I got lucky enough to pick up a board with a custom frosty flake controller. Are qfr the only ones thay can fit this controller? Where is the filco and leupold controllers?

I was hoping to upgrade the pcb at some point, and use the frosty flake again. But I might just have to find another qfr pcb so i can have one with LEDs

filco tkl have their own custom controller and the FF would physically not fit anyway.
i would assume that the matrix of the leopolds are different so they would not work with the controller either.

That's what I had assumed. Is it possible to maybe send my QFR to somebody and get a custom board done to the same specs, but with better materials and different colors? Anybody know where I could find somebody to do that for me, at an MOQ of 1? Or would other people potentially be interested in QFR style custom PCBs?

Custom pcbs in QFR style are pretty much Phantom pcbs.

[Photoelectric]

A custom Filco TKL controller was made by Bpiphany earlier and is called HID Liberation Device.  Bpiphany made one for full-sized Filcos (and Rosewill?) along with the Frosty Flake.  I think someone asked about Leopolds, and I remember something about them not having a removable controller.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Okay, question.

The qfr controller. I got lucky enough to pick up a board with a custom frosty flake controller. Are qfr the only ones thay can fit this controller? Where is the filco and leupold controllers?

I was hoping to upgrade the pcb at some point, and use the frosty flake again. But I might just have to find another qfr pcb so i can have one with LEDs

filco tkl have their own custom controller and the FF would physically not fit anyway.
i would assume that the matrix of the leopolds are different so they would not work with the controller either.

That's what I had assumed. Is it possible to maybe send my QFR to somebody and get a custom board done to the same specs, but with better materials and different colors? Anybody know where I could find somebody to do that for me, at an MOQ of 1? Or would other people potentially be interested in QFR style custom PCBs?

But the Frosty Flake controller wouldn't work on Phantoms, right? Because they're not set up to take a QFR controller.

[SpAmRaY]

Okay, question.

The qfr controller. I got lucky enough to pick up a board with a custom frosty flake controller. Are qfr the only ones thay can fit this controller? Where is the filco and leupold controllers?

I was hoping to upgrade the pcb at some point, and use the frosty flake again. But I might just have to find another qfr pcb so i can have one with LEDs

filco tkl have their own custom controller and the FF would physically not fit anyway.
i would assume that the matrix of the leopolds are different so they would not work with the controller either.

That's what I had assumed. Is it possible to maybe send my QFR to somebody and get a custom board done to the same specs, but with better materials and different colors? Anybody know where I could find somebody to do that for me, at an MOQ of 1? Or would other people potentially be interested in QFR style custom PCBs?

But the Frosty Flake controller wouldn't work on Phantoms, right? Because they're not set up to take a QFR controller.

A phantom uses the teensy which is already programmable.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I know, but this is my first real keyboard, my first modding experience, and I'm replacing everything but the PCB and the Controller. I want the controller to live on, if that makes sense. The PCB needs to be replaced at some point, and I want the essence of the keyboard to live on. So I want the controller to carry on to the keyboard's next life. So what ever PCB I get, I want this same controller.

I know it's stupid, right? Just get a phantom. And I am planning to get a phantom, but I don't want to give up on this keyboard. I want to finish it. I want it to be something I can be proud to own without just replacing every single thing in it. I feel like that's admitting that the keyboard never had worth to begin with.

So I want to get a custom PCB made that can take the frosty flake. Is there any way to do that?

[gnubag]

I know, but this is my first real keyboard, my first modding experience, and I'm replacing everything but the PCB and the Controller. I want the controller to live on, if that makes sense. The PCB needs to be replaced at some point, and I want the essence of the keyboard to live on. So I want the controller to carry on to the keyboard's next life. So what ever PCB I get, I want this same controller.

I know it's stupid, right? Just get a phantom. And I am planning to get a phantom, but I don't want to give up on this keyboard. I want to finish it. I want it to be something I can be proud to own without just replacing every single thing in it. I feel like that's admitting that the keyboard never had worth to begin with.

So I want to get a custom PCB made that can take the frosty flake. Is there any way to do that?

you could just get a cheap QFR again and it would be much cheaper than making a custom pcb.
also there is not really a point in getting a custom pcb since the advantages of them are just that they are programmable and/or have different layouts, and if you use the FF you can already program the keyboard as you like. Maybe you want a different layout, but it would be still not worth the time and money imo.

[PointyFox]

Why does the PCB need to be replaced?  Lifted pads can be repaired.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Why does the PCB need to be replaced?  Lifted pads can be repaired.

I've been looking, but haven't found any info supporting this. Got a link, or an explanation to how?
Very interested.

Plus, I like different colors for PCBs. I'd love a white one. At some point I plan on being rich and having money on turning something that's fine and making exactly what I want. Just one of those things, you know. How much would it run to get a single custom PCB do you think? We talking $100? or like $1500?

[CalmB4tehPwn]

So it looks like I can do a row (what, like 20, depending on row) before I need a break. I'm surprised at how quicky, and how easily I'm picking this up. I really, really expected a fight. But boy am I glad I opted for a cheaper soldering iron and the soldapullt, as opposed to a more expensive iron and a cheap sucker.

[PointyFox]

So it looks like I can do a row (what, like 20, depending on row) before I need a break. I'm surprised at how quicky, and how easily I'm picking this up. I really, really expected a fight. But boy am I glad I opted for a cheaper soldering iron and the soldapullt, as opposed to a more expensive iron and a cheap sucker.

I went through 2 cheap solder suckers, then gave up and bought a Hakko 808.  I can desolder an entire board in like 20 minutes now.  Was impossible with the Radioshack stuff.  Especially through hole stuff on a double sided PCB. You need to expose some trace by scraping, then bridge the trace to the lead with solder or conductive epoxy/ink.  Look up conductive epoxy / CircuitWriter.

[Tranquilite]

You need to expose some trace by scraping, then bridge the trace to the lead with solder or conductive epoxy/ink.  Look up conductive epoxy / CircuitWriter.

the most important part is being careful when you scrape the PCB to expose the trace you want to tap. You need to scrape hard enough to reveal, but not remove the copper trace. Once you have the trace exposed you can also just solder some fine gauge wire if you don't want to get any conductive epoxy/ink. Fortunately keyboards have relatively large/easy to follow traces, so it shouldn't be too hard to repair.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

While soldering, I'm having this issue. It's splattering little droplets of.. Resin? Or something similar in properties to resin all about my PCB, and occasionally, my arms. It hasn't proven a concern, but I'm curious if this is just nature of the beast, of if I've got my soldering iron set too hot, or one of my methods is bad, or something.

I'm working on a Yihua 936 set to about 360 (no idea what I should be soldering at, but it's worked well for me so far. Not burning the board and melting the solder pretty quick)
with Kester .. what was it? 60/40?

[MOZ]

While soldering, I'm having this issue. It's splattering little droplets of.. Resin? Or something similar in properties to resin all about my PCB, and occasionally, my arms. It hasn't proven a concern, but I'm curious if this is just nature of the beast, of if I've got my soldering iron set too hot, or one of my methods is bad, or something.

I'm working on a Yihua 936 set to about 360 (no idea what I should be soldering at, but it's worked well for me so far. Not burning the board and melting the solder pretty quick)
with Kester .. what was it? 60/40?

You should use 63/37, it is eutectic.

A little bit of resin does splatter, happens with me too, I just clean it up later with Petrol, which I found better than Isopropyl alcohol.

[alaricljs]

I solder at 280C the vast majority of the time.  Hotter will cause more spatter from the flux and can cause damage to components/boards.

[MOZ]

I use around 320, but I think my iron is manually calibrated.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I think I need to calibrate my Yihua's heat. Because at 300-325 I'm getting nothing done. I can barely melt solder at that point, and as soon as I pull it off the node, it hardens. At 350 I can work, but it takes so much more time to melt all the solder that I spend the whole time panicky that I'm burning the board, and at 375, I can melt and pull in about <5 seconds. I don't think my 375 is your 375. I'm probably running hotter than I should, however, but it's fine for me on the switches. I just pulled the whole board without messing a single one up.

LEDs however, I burned right through those.

Anyways. Mission complete.


Now I wait patiently for the_Beast to put the switch tools up for sale, for my uTKL plate to come in the mail, for any set of matching keycaps, and for some new and exciting switch types. Then I can get modding.

Glad it's over. I expect soldering will be significantly easier than desoldering. Or, at least less stressful.

[bpiphany]

Haha, that's the board I f**ked up the pads on. Wow, I really sucked on soldering that day... It is the QFR the Frosty Flake design is based on =)

Soldering is way easier than de-soldering.

[MOZ]

I think I need to calibrate my Yihua's heat. Because at 300-325 I'm getting nothing done. I can barely melt solder at that point, and as soon as I pull it off the node, it hardens. At 350 I can work, but it takes so much more time to melt all the solder that I spend the whole time panicky that I'm burning the board, and at 375, I can melt and pull in about <5 seconds. I don't think my 375 is your 375. I'm probably running hotter than I should, however, but it's fine for me on the switches. I just pulled the whole board without messing a single one up.

LEDs however, I burned right through those.

Anyways. Mission complete.

Show Image

Now I wait patiently for the_Beast to put the switch tools up for sale, for my uTKL plate to come in the mail, for any set of matching keycaps, and for some new and exciting switch types. Then I can get modding.

Glad it's over. I expect soldering will be significantly easier than desoldering. Or, at least less stressful.

Is that a QFR PCB mine is green and dual layer.  :-\

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Haha, that's the board I f**ked up the pads on. Wow, I really sucked on soldering that day... It is the QFR the Frosty Flake design is based on =)

Soldering is way easier than de-soldering.

Hah, well at least I know I've got a board with some history. That also explains the caps lock LED pads.

I think I need to calibrate my Yihua's heat. Because at 300-325 I'm getting nothing done. I can barely melt solder at that point, and as soon as I pull it off the node, it hardens. At 350 I can work, but it takes so much more time to melt all the solder that I spend the whole time panicky that I'm burning the board, and at 375, I can melt and pull in about <5 seconds. I don't think my 375 is your 375. I'm probably running hotter than I should, however, but it's fine for me on the switches. I just pulled the whole board without messing a single one up.

LEDs however, I burned right through those.

Anyways. Mission complete.

Show Image

Now I wait patiently for the_Beast to put the switch tools up for sale, for my uTKL plate to come in the mail, for any set of matching keycaps, and for some new and exciting switch types. Then I can get modding.

Glad it's over. I expect soldering will be significantly easier than desoldering. Or, at least less stressful.

Is that a QFR PCB mine is green and dual layer.  :-\

As far as I know it's a QFR PCB. I doubt somebody got a custom made cheap one sided replacement. Must be an earlier version.

[MOZ]

As far as I know it's a QFR PCB. I doubt somebody got a custom made cheap one sided replacement. Must be an earlier version.

Maybe

[TopazPie]

That's exactly what my PCB looks like. The early versions are single layered.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Alright. Still pushing ahead with my wife's keyboard.

Got a uTKL plate (thank you, bunny) and took the next step.

Now. I installed all of my blue switches on the plate, flipped it over, set the PCB down atop of it and thought everything lined up.

It did not occur to my until significatly later that the controller (frosty flake) is higher than the plate, so I soldered all of these switches about 2-3 MM off the PCB. I figured hey, as long as it works, right?

Well, about a third of the alpha keys do not work. So all of my excitement was for naught. I have to go back and desolder them all.

Also, I don't know if this is a systemic problem, but my stabilizers aren't.. working? I pulled the stabs off of the QFR plate, and installed them on the uTKL plate, but they're pinched in, and the gap is closer at the top than at the bottom, and all of my stabilized keys stick. Which is why they aren't installed. Do I need different stabs? Maybe take a file and shave just a bit off the plate? Or did I mess something up installing them?

[Melvang]

Alright. Still pushing ahead with my wife's keyboard.

Got a uTKL plate (thank you, bunny) and took the next step.

Now. I installed all of my blue switches on the plate, flipped it over, set the PCB down atop of it and thought everything lined up.

It did not occur to my until significatly later that the controller (frosty flake) is higher than the plate, so I soldered all of these switches about 2-3 MM off the PCB. I figured hey, as long as it works, right?

Well, about a third of the alpha keys do not work. So all of my excitement was for naught. I have to go back and desolder them all.

Also, I don't know if this is a systemic problem, but my stabilizers aren't.. working? I pulled the stabs off of the QFR plate, and installed them on the uTKL plate, but they're pinched in, and the gap is closer at the top than at the bottom, and all of my stabilized keys stick. Which is why they aren't installed. Do I need different stabs? Maybe take a file and shave just a bit off the plate? Or did I mess something up installing them?

flip the inserts around on the caps.  The smaller gap between the insert on the cap and the edge of the cap will point toward the wire if it is costar.  I can't help you with cherry stabs as I haven't worked with those yet.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Yeah, I've tried it both ways. Unfortunately it's sticking either way.

[Melvang]

try pulling the wire mounts out of the plate and reseating them making sure they are fully seated along with the wire.  If you are using SP abs caps then the inserts might be falling out.  If this is the case tear off a small (1/4" square) off a sandwich baggie and put that on the insert stem before inserting into the cap.  This is a known issue with SP's caps to which I don't they they are fixing.

[jdcarpe]

This is a known issue with those stainless steel plates that are 0.0625" thick. The spec calls for 0.060" so the Costar stabilizer inserts don't fit all that well. A file on those stab holes works well. You can also stick a small screwdriver or long nose pliers in there to try and seat them better.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I opened it back up today, take a look at what the hell went wrong.

My soldering isn't pretty, and all of the switches are about 1mm - 1.5mm off the pcb, but the switch leads are all the way through, and I don't see any differences between some of the switches that work, and some that don't. I've got pretty soldering on non working switches, and ugly soldering on working keys. So I don't know what to think. I'm about ready to scrap this PCB, and wait for a cheap QFR to show up in the classifieds to finish this project. I wish I had confirmation on if this keyboard worked before I got it. It had clearly been soldered on before.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Well, you might have noticed I haven't been around much (outside of giving updates in my GB thread) and it's because I needed to take a break. I was getting frustrated. But here's an update.

It looks like it's not my soldering that was making my keyboard non-functional, but instead my desoldering. I can't tell if I burned off the pads, or if the PCB was just non-functional when I got it, but I'm guessing it's the former. The switches are confirmed now to work, but no matter what switch I solder into one of the non-working spots, that key continues to not work.

So, that project is kind of a bust. I've got everything else I need for it, to include a nice controller, but the PCB is wrecked. I could order a new phantom PCB and just use it in this project, but ****, the whole reason I got that board was because of the Frosty Flake controller. I like the idea of upgrading, and not replacing. If I get a phantom, then I should have just not bought that keyboard to begin with, because I'll have replaced every single thing in it. So unless I can find a cheap, desoldered QFR PCB, I'm just going to table that project and focus on my phantom, which should be fine since I don't have to desolder anything. Assuming I don't **** anything up.

I do have one big question though. I picked up an ancient Wyse board, to salvage for the potentially vintage black switches (Not that I can even tell) and to make some ghetto greens (using the blue springs for some ergo clears), and the switches (which I admittedly don't plan to use) are very dirty. Is there a good way to clean them? Can I soak 'em in soapy water like caps, just make extra sure they're completely dried before trying to solder 'em into a board? And would that be effective in getting the dirt and grit out of the tight corners?

[SpAmRaY]

You can try bypassing the pads and wiring to the traces to try and fix the pcb, I know there's a few how to's on that somewhere but can't find them at the moment.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I know I could, but it's like a quarter of the keys that aren't working. It's not worth the time to scratch each single pad to reveal just enough to get it working. I'd rather just get a new PCB

[Melvang]

instead of scratching traces and attempting to solder a wire to the trace just follow the trace to the next pad and solder to that.  That is what I did when I rotated the Esc switch on my Das and had to drill holes through the PCB when ended up breaking a couple traces.  I just followed the traces the best I could and confirmed with a multimeter.  Soldered in a wire and viola it works.

[Melvang]

This is a known issue with those stainless steel plates that are 0.0625" thick. The spec calls for 0.060" so the Costar stabilizer inserts don't fit all that well. A file on those stab holes works well. You can also stick a small screwdriver or long nose pliers in there to try and seat them better.

Sorry about the double post but saw this after I posted me previous one.  But if you check Cherrys spec sheet yes it does call for .060" plate but also says +/-.004".  So, a plate at .0625 is still within spec.

[swill]

I think I need to calibrate my Yihua's heat. Because at 300-325 I'm getting nothing done. I can barely melt solder at that point, and as soon as I pull it off the node, it hardens. At 350 I can work, but it takes so much more time to melt all the solder that I spend the whole time panicky that I'm burning the board, and at 375, I can melt and pull in about <5 seconds. I don't think my 375 is your 375. I'm probably running hotter than I should, however, but it's fine for me on the switches. I just pulled the whole board without messing a single one up.

LEDs however, I burned right through those.

Anyways. Mission complete.

Show Image

Now I wait patiently for the_Beast to put the switch tools up for sale, for my uTKL plate to come in the mail, for any set of matching keycaps, and for some new and exciting switch types. Then I can get modding.

Glad it's over. I expect soldering will be significantly easier than desoldering. Or, at least less stressful.

I read (I believe in the living soldering thread) that this iron may actually run about 100 degrees cooler than you think it is.  It had something to do with the base cycling before the actual element was to temperature or something.  That may be why you need to run at hotter temp to get anything done...

Edit:
Here is a reference: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg1075304#msg1075304

[HotKillerZzz]

Can any1 help me? I just learnt to soldered and tried out on my qfr but now there is one switch where when I try to solder, the solder doesn't come off and go onto the switch wire  and there is slight black brownish burn marks on it. Can this problem be solved? Or is that particular key totally unusable?
Thanks in advanced.

[Photekq]

Can any1 help me? I just learnt to soldered and tried out on my qfr but now there is one switch where when I try to solder, the solder doesn't come off and go onto the switch wire  and there is slight black brownish burn marks on it. Can this problem be solved? Or is that particular key totally unusable?
Thanks in advanced.

Post it here and with pics!

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Thanks for the encouraging words, guys. And the help. I'm not too concerned about this PCB. It's worth significantly less than to me than the time it would take to fix it, especially considering the results may not even work out in my favor.

Chances are, I'll just end up tossing a phantom PCB in there, and hate that it's a uTKL on a Phantom board for the rest of my life.

But hey, it's for my wife anyways, so it's not a big deal.

I'm getting back to work on desoldering this Wyse. It's a really well built PCB (compared to the QFR at least, and seems to be on par with the quality of construction as the Phantom board) but the switches are in pretty bad condition. No damage, but it's a lot more grit than I'm confident I can get out of there effectively. Luckily, the switches seem to be clean and in good working order, so they'll go towards some Ghetto Greens, and my blue switches will go into the clears I just ordered.

Huzzah!