[IC] TaoHao Alps doubleshot keycaps [RESEARCH MODE]

[dante]

While I'm still waiting to get numbers back I want to ask a few questions.

Originally I was going to run a GB specifically for the KBParadise V60MTS however when I read the MOQ's it was clear that the best value would be to offer full 104 sets.  Unfortunately there is no "one" standard in the world of Alps; "them's the breaks kid" or how that saying goes.

TaoHao has tested their keycaps on a V60MTS and it came out A-OK.  The problem is their keycaps are predesigned in a way that it will cost huge money to change the wording on them outside the existing form factor.  For example, there will be no Capslock size key with Control for it.

So with that being said - I still have to finalize things but we're looking at a 500MOQ minimum order spread across 2 sets - so 250MOQ for two different types.   That's the good news - the original minimum order from the factory was 1000 sets of ONE layout - because Alps is a special order they are only making Cherry sets 99% of the time now.

We can do any sets we want but I already asked (waiting to hear back) if they can do 250 Dolch and 250 Olivetti.

Costs per set are around $20 before paypal/shipping fees are added.  Hopefully by next Wednesday we will nail down the costs.

I have to ask some tough questions:

1. How many of you plan to use these on a Matias Quiet Pro?  Because unfortunately the bottom row is non-standard, and because Mac's are all about standards     the numpad on the Mac is different than the PC version.  So how many of you are using this on a Quiet Pro PC or Mac?  (And No I'm not dealing with Matias Mini.  This isn't Signature Plastics, son.)

If anyone will avoid buying because of the QP issue I could go back and ask that some additional keys be added but that will drive the price up a little per set.

2. Is Dolch/Olivetti options ok?  Everyone has a boner whenever either word is mentioned - I couldn't imagine everyone would want a solid black or yellow.

3. See below on the height differences of the Tao Hao keycaps.  Any problems with it?


Here are some pics of the keycaps:

[CommonCurt]

I will  be down for 2 or 3 sets of Olivetti 

Possibly a set of Dolch.

[Heliosphere]

Either is good for me; might even buy both at that price, why not? Does Olivetti have a blue or purple legend?

[jonathanyu]

Either is good for me; might even buy both at that price, why not? Does Olivetti have a blue or purple legend?

blue

[Hak Foo]

I am all over this.  It's what I was dreaming of since we first saw the mention of TaiHao Alps caps.  I can see getting three sets with a mild preference for Dolch.

Can they do all the keys in the MX group-buy?  I think if they can do that 1.5-1-1.5-7-1.5-1-1.5 bottom row, that *dramatically* increases the set compatibility, with only marginal cost increase.    The big Matias boards (for PC) use that layout, as do a lot of vintage boards (Dell and SGI AT101, and a bunch of Focus boards).

[RickyJ]

Olivetti FTW for me, I'd take Dolch too.  I don't have any ANSI standard Alps boards, just my Minitouch and a bigass-enter fullsize, but I'm waiting for a nice 60% to drop blues into.

[MOZ]

Sounds interesting, depending on the final layout available, I might be in for one of each given how hard it is to find Alps DS.

[Puddsy]

Am interested.

[00zeRO]

While I'm still waiting to get numbers back I want to ask a few questions.

Originally I was going to run a GB specifically for the KBParadise V60MTS however when I read the MOQ's it was clear that the best value would be to offer full 104 sets.  Unfortunately there is no "one" standard in the world of Alps; "them's the breaks kid" or how that saying goes.

TaoHao has tested their keycaps on a V60MTS and it came out A-OK.  The problem is their keycaps are predesigned in a way that it will cost huge money to change the wording on them outside the existing form factor.  For example, there will be no Capslock size key with Control for it.

So with that being said - I still have to finalize things but we're looking at a 500MOQ minimum order spread across 2 sets - so 250MOQ for two different types.   That's the good news - the original minimum order from the factory was 1000 sets of ONE layout - because Alps is a special order they are only making Cherry sets 99% of the time now.

We can do any sets we want but I already asked (waiting to hear back) if they can do 250 Dolch and 250 Olivetti.

Costs per set are around $20 before paypal/shipping fees are added.  Hopefully by next Wednesday we will nail down the costs.

I have to ask some tough questions:

1. How many of you plan to use these on a Matias Quiet Pro?  Because unfortunately the bottom row is non-standard, and because Mac's are all about standards     the numpad on the Mac is different than the PC version.  So how many of you are using this on a Quiet Pro PC or Mac?  (And No I'm not dealing with Matias Mini.  This isn't Signature Plastics, son.)

If anyone will avoid buying because of the QP issue I could go back and ask that some additional keys be added but that will drive the price up a little per set.

2. Is Dolch/Olivetti options ok?  Everyone has a boner whenever either word is mentioned - I couldn't imagine everyone would want a solid black or yellow.

3. See below on the height differences of the Tao Hao keycaps.  Any problems with it?


Here are some pics of the keycaps:

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Interested...

[AKmalamute]

I'm building a 60% ALPs by hand using Melvang's Enabler ... so I could potentially be interested but for my money I'd need two things before it could become possible:

Control key on the home row. I never program my programmables with a caps lock because IMHO that's dumb. Blanks could be accepted though.

I hate the colors you've mentioned so far. I might be in the minority, but while I might buy Dolch if it was half off or better because the former owner was dying I wouldn't even want to pay money for olivetti. Besides which I have a sufficient supply of plain keycaps from prior sources. So I'd need a color.

Any color. Carnation pink, apple green, royal purple -- if you want my input I'd suggested royal purple with carnation pink text but again so long as it doesn't resemble white backgrounds (that includes black) I will seriously consider it.

Good luck in any event.

[dante]

I am all over this.  It's what I was dreaming of since we first saw the mention of TaiHao Alps caps.  I can see getting three sets with a mild preference for Dolch.

Can they do all the keys in the MX group-buy?  I think if they can do that 1.5-1-1.5-7-1.5-1-1.5 bottom row, that *dramatically* increases the set compatibility, with only marginal cost increase.    The big Matias boards (for PC) use that layout, as do a lot of vintage boards (Dell and SGI AT101, and a bunch of Focus boards).

I'm working with TaoHao on sourcing a PC Quiet Pro to see if they can match the keycaps for this - so it will be a 104 set + QP bottom Row.  Once that happens I will request photos of the keycaps on both the V60MTS and QuietPro.  After THAT we'll get some pricing.

I'm going to have to say sorry to the Mac Quiet Pro users because not all the numpad keys will work - because of the high MOQ I'm doing my best to keep costs low so people will be tempted to buy multiple sets - I'm not jacking up the prices $3-5 because only a few Mac users want these keys.

[dante]

Control key on the home row. I never program my programmables with a caps lock because IMHO that's dumb. Blanks could be accepted though.

I can ask about blanks - I'm really trying to keep costs low by limiting number of keys.  They do not have a Capslock swappable Control key - this would require $$$ and the goal is to meet MOQ.

I hate the colors you've mentioned so far. I might be in the minority, but while I might buy Dolch if it was half off or better because the former owner was dying I wouldn't even want to pay money for olivetti. Besides which I have a sufficient supply of plain keycaps from prior sources. So I'd need a color.

Any color. Carnation pink, apple green, royal purple -- if you want my input I'd suggested royal purple with carnation pink text but again so long as it doesn't resemble white backgrounds (that includes black) I will seriously consider it.

I'll be frank with you - I'm not entirely crazy about Dolch or Olivetti either - especially Dolch.  I'm so tired of seeing it!

However if the goal is to meet MOQ before 2016 I've suggested these as the most popular colors that will bring people in.

If the majority disagrees let me hear it.

[AKmalamute]

However if the goal is to meet MOQ before 2016 I've suggested these as the most popular colors that will bring people in.

I understand. I'd have refrained from posting but if a bunch of people pipe up saying 'pick some color' because I suggested it could be done ... that'd be cool.

Speaking of piping up about how I'm different from the majority -- my keyboards are very 1.5u heavy, and an extra bottom row of 1.5 mods would go a long way to making a single set more marketable, I'd expect. Or maybe emulate the proposed manly unicorn by creating a 'just buy it' set of nothing but 1.5 mods, 1.75 ctrl / shift keys and a couple extra oddities that could conceivably match either set that you're proposing.

[dante]

However if the goal is to meet MOQ before 2016 I've suggested these as the most popular colors that will bring people in.

I understand. I'd have refrained from posting but if a bunch of people pipe up saying 'pick some color' because I suggested it could be done ... that'd be cool.

Speaking of piping up about how I'm different from the majority -- my keyboards are very 1.5u heavy, and an extra bottom row of 1.5 mods would go a long way to making a single set more marketable, I'd expect. Or maybe emulate the proposed manly unicorn by creating a 'just buy it' set of nothing but 1.5 mods, 1.75 ctrl / shift keys and a couple extra oddities that could conceivably match either set that you're proposing.

The way TaiHao is presently dealing with this is - if you want extra keys they must be included in the total set MOQ.  I was made very aware that it has been a long time since they've been approached by anyone to do Alps keysets.  They aren't opposed to doing it but it requires several days of setup and they need to make it profitable.

And that's where the issue is - as long as you want Tao Hao legends in their usual spots or the use of blanks - they can work with that - but all that cost has to be rolled in per set.

Take a good look at the Signature Plastics Interest Check for Alps and how long it's taken them just to get to 50 votes.  I'm trying to keep this dirt fricken cheap to avoid that.

[AKmalamute]

The way TaiHao is presently dealing with this is - if you want extra keys they must be included in the total set MOQ.
[...]
Take a good look at the Signature Plastics Interest Check for Alps and how long it's taken them just to get to 50 votes.  I'm trying to keep this dirt fricken cheap to avoid that.

I figured as much. When I suggested a 'just buy it' kit I was assuming it would match the other two because it would be a separate set with it's own 250 MOQ; total 750 "sets" a third of which would go with buyers of one or the other set.

And yes, I know that ALPS aren't at the popularity levels needed to make this easy -- you're walking a delicate line of low cost to attract more sets per buyer (/ more buyers because $23.74 is all they have), while still striving for universality because that will attract buyers because what they will get will definitely match the keyboard already in front of them.

[file_id]

I'd be interested in a dolche set for my  KBP-V60-MTS-Click

[AKmalamute]

this [IC] isn't off to the roaring start it would need to achieve those kinds of minimum order levels ...

What's missing, folks? Somebody speak up and say you're interested!

[dante]

Update:

TaoHao is going to take a photo of their keycaps physically on a V60MTS (will need this for the group buy.)  I'm just paranoid and need 'proof.'  I'm sure they are honest - I'm just a nut job.

They are unable to acquire a Matias Quiet Pro locally so I'm going to reach out to Matias and see if they have a donor/defective board from their factory they can use for testing.

BTW: The V80MTS is 95% happening.  If given the green light it won't be here before April at the earliest.

[CommonCurt]

Update:

TaoHao is going to take a photo of their keycaps physically on a V60MTS (will need this for the group buy.)  I'm just paranoid and need 'proof.'  I'm sure they are honest - I'm just a nut job.

They are unable to acquire a Matias Quiet Pro locally so I'm going to reach out to Matias and see if they have a donor/defective board from their factory they can use for testing.

BTW: The V80MTS is 95% happening.  If given the green light it won't be here before April at the earliest.

I would like to see them on the V60 MTS for confirmation also.

Good  work 

[dante]

Matias is checking with their office in Asia to see if they have a Quiet Pro they can ship out for testing.

After thinking about it - and not having too much feedback on GH - when I get close to having final photos / numbers I'm going to run it past Mass Drop to see if they might be interested in it or part of the order.  For sure if it is presented as a hybrid group buy the prices sold on GH will be cheaper; I just don't know if MD can push 500 sets out the door.

[rowdy]

Just to throw into the cauldron that Tai Hao are now apparently making doubleshot PBT keycaps.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=66824.0

Those are MX, maybe they will make Alps too ...

[dante]

I'll send an email to get details...

[dante]

BTW: Do I smell bad?

I thought there would be more interest than this...

[CommonCurt]

Just to throw into the cauldron that Tai Hao are now apparently making doubleshot PBT keycaps.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=66824.0

Those are MX, maybe they will make Alps too ...

Definitely interested trying their double shot PBT in ALPS & MX.

[Hypersphere]

Interested. This would be for the V60MTS. I am still on the fence about a Matias 60. Would be much more keen for dye-sub PBT than double-shot ABS, but it would be good to have Olivetti and/or Dolch for the V60MTS.

[dante]

TaoHao says Alps PBT is possible but will add $8 per set.

With that being said, what do you folks want? ABS or PBT?


Edit: Still waiting to hear from Matias; still waiting on photos from TaoHao

[Hypersphere]

PBT!!! Definitely! The surface feel of PBT is so much better than ABS. PBT always feels nice and dry, and some surface finishes have a slight pumice-like texture that I like. In contrast, ABS feels clammy to me. Can they do dye-sub PBT? If they are set up for dye-sub, this would be easier than double-shot with PBT, although some double-shot PBT caps are starting to appear. Double-shot opens up more color possibilities.

[CommonCurt]

Code: [Select]

TaoHao says Alps PBT is possible but will add $8 per set.

With that being said, what do you folks want? ABS or PBT?


Edit: Still waiting to hear from Matias; still waiting on photos from TaoHao

I would much rather have PBT. Would they  be able to do Olivetti in PBT?  That is the main colorway i'm looking for. Unless they could  do a classic beige. I would  be open to other color ways too. I just for sure would like to get a classic colorway like Olivetti or black on beige. I'll probably be getting a few of the sets offered to help meet moq.

[AKmalamute]

were I to be forced to choose between purple ABS, or grey PBT, I'd be hard pressed. I don't want any variant of gray. But I would prefer PBT, even though that adds nearly half-again to the per-set cost.

[Hak Foo]

I think a nice basic two-tone (black on beige and white) PBT set could be an interesting choice.

It's a direct upgrade for a lot of boards out there with crappy keycaps-- AT101Ws come to mind immediately.

However, there's a side benefit:  because it's a conventional color, even if we can't handle your particular weird bigass enter or 1.125x right shift, you can still fall back on the stock cap for those few keys without it turning into unicorn vomit.

[CommonCurt]

I think a nice basic two-tone (black on beige and white) PBT set could be an interesting choice.

It's a direct upgrade for a lot of boards out there with crappy keycaps-- AT101Ws come to mind immediately.

However, there's a side benefit:  because it's a conventional color, even if we can't handle your particular weird bigass enter or 1.125x right shift, you can still fall back on the stock cap for those few keys without it turning into unicorn vomit.

Didn't even think about that due to me worrying about these sets fitting the V60 MTS 100%.    Good call.

[dante]

Ok boys and girls!

I added some photos to the OP.

Matias hasn't logged in since last Friday so I'm going to drop an Email through his main corporate website.   Once I hear from him I'll know better if/when TaoHao can receive a QuietPro.  I suspect after a day or two after they receive it we will nail down the final pricing/etc.

PS: Chances are very good when the V80MTS rolls out it will be Dual Alps/MX compatible.

[rand77]

I would be down for several sets as well.  A full ansi set of alps keycaps (to fit the v60) are very hard to come by. 

[CommonCurt]

Ok boys and girls!

I added some photos to the OP.

Matias hasn't logged in since last Friday so I'm going to drop an Email through his main corporate website.   Once I hear from him I'll know better if/when TaoHao can receive a QuietPro.  I suspect after a day or two after they receive it we will nail down the final pricing/etc.

PS: Chances are very good when the V80MTS rolls out it will be Dual Alps/MX compatible.

Pictures look good 

Have you heard any news on the double shot PBT?

[dante]

Nope.  Matias is on Holiday leave, TaoHao hasn't responded to a couple emails so I think they may be on Holiday leave or swamped.

[Magna224]

I would be in for a set of anything with a standard bottom row at these prices. I would like PBT though.