Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?

[gr1m]

Hello, I lurked this site last night because lately I've been looking to order a mechanical keyboard for myself. I figured I'd join up and ask about which keyboard to get. I used to post under the name of Afrodisiac on Overclock.net so it's nice seeing some familiar faces here (got banned though).

What I'm looking for:

1- Switches
Something good for gaming, like Cherry MX Black switches. However, I'd say my usage is about half and half (half gaming, half typing). Summer is hardcore game time but I don't exactly play 8 hours a day with a salary for most of the year. That got me thinking that I should get something more friendly for typing. I've tried understanding some of the terms like tactile feedback and came to the conclusion that Cherry MX Browns might be suitable. Also, I read that a Cherry MX White is a Brown with some Black properties so would that be ideal for a gaming/typing hybrid? I'm currently using a Logitech G15 v2 (yes, laugh at me - I figured the LCD and backlighting would be useful for gaming, but oddly enough, after buying it, I realised that I mostly look at my monitor when I game).

2- Budget
Something not unreasonably expensive. I'd love to get a Deck Legend or the Filco tenkeyless NKRO but over $100 is a stretch. If you can convince me that spending $160 on a Deck Legend would be a very smart choice concerning future purchases and overall satisfaction, I have no qualms about buying it but the less I pay, the happier I am. Is $80 a reasonable budget?

3- Features
Tenkeyless and NKRO, and a PS2 connection. I don't really care about backlighting. I just want a solid, simple keyboard. It doesn't have to be tenkeyless, but I really love the tenkeyless style, and have never used the number pad on any of my keyboards in my life. Also, a good layout would be nice. To be honest, I'll use anything that's put in front of me because I'm not a picky guy, but I don't want to spend money and then realise I bought a shoddy-layout keyboard (like from what I read, the Steelseries 7G and 6Gv2 appear to be).


I don't like buying used stuff but if it is my best option, I'll go for it.

Thanks for your time,
gr1m

[gr1m]

I did. It wasn't even for a dramatic reason. I just like dropping the f-bomb and the infractions stacked up.

About tenkeyless, I'm not lacking desk space so I can use a full keyboard. If removing tenkeyless from my requirements increases the choices I have, then I'll live without tenkeyless.

[gr1m]

How many people would recommend that I dish out the $120 for a Filco?

[SpatiallyAware]

I personally feel like the blacks are too stiff.  

Blues are perfect for typing but the clickiness can be a negative for gaming.

Browns are satisfactory for typing and IMO the best for gaming.  To me they're more linear than tactile. (i.e. similar to blacks but lighter, with a tiny bump to 'push' through)



Is noise a concern?  If not I'd get a Filco blue tenkeyless and if it's too clicky then get a 'cheaper' cherry brown switch board, or trade it for a Filco brown.


One benefit of the Filco boards is that they tend to hold their resale and are very trade-able if you decide a particular switch is not for you.

[ricercar]

Give me $100 for my tenkeyless Cherry black TG3. Just like a red Deck tenkeyless; made by the same OEM.

[kriminal]

cherry blacks are really great for gaming, browns are a good middle ground, typing on blacks currently...

[gr1m]

I personally feel like the blacks are too stiff.  

Blues are perfect for typing but the clickiness can be a negative for gaming.

Browns are satisfactory for typing and IMO the best for gaming.  To me they're more linear than tactile. (i.e. similar to blacks but lighter, with a tiny bump to 'push' through)



Is noise a concern?  If not I'd get a Filco blue tenkeyless and if it's too clicky then get a 'cheaper' cherry brown switch board, or trade it for a Filco brown.


One benefit of the Filco boards is that they tend to hold their resale and are very trade-able if you decide a particular switch is not for you.

So if your yearly life broke down into 20% gaming and 80% schoolwork/general usage, you would get MX Blues?

I'm neutral about clickiness (although my environment has no noise restrictions). I don't see how clickiness can be a con for gaming though. If anything, I can clearly hear when I accidentally release a key (although, with my headphones on and the guns blazing, I can't hear anything outside of the game). Do blue switches have a tactile bump as well as clicking? Or are those the browns?

Also, since all I've used in my life are rubber-domed Logitech keyboards, I doubt a Cherry MX Blue keyboard would be as bad at gaming as the rubber-dome ones. I hate it when one of the buttons on my G15 just decides to stop being pressed (like when I'm walking forward in a game and then just stop moving even though my finger is firmly on the w key). I'm sure any mechanical keyboard will fix that.

And, good to hear about the Filcos. Looks like they're worth the money.

Give me $100 for my tenkeyless Cherry black TG3. Just like a red Deck tenkeyless; made by the same OEM.

Backlit, PS2, NKRO, tenkeyless, Cherry MX Blacks? Mmmmm. I'm tempted, but since it would cost me $20 more new and I'm already plunking down $100, I would prefer to buy new.

cherry blacks are really great for gaming, browns are a good middle ground, typing on blacks currently...

So I think it boils down to Browns for more gaming/less typing and Blues for more typing/less gaming (Blacks would be ultimate gaming/no typing, right?). What about the Cherry Whites and Reds? How "bad" are blacks for typing? Are they uncomfortable, or require a learning curve?

I'm finding the tenkeyless otaku Filco boards attractive. They're so new and alien to me.

[quadibloc]

There were under-$100 mechanical switch keyboards out there. My understanding, though, is that tactile feedback is best for typing, and linear switches are best for gaming.

So that seems to mean two keyboards, and your budget is shot right there. But others have pointed out there are some switches that occupy the middle ground.

[gr1m]

What I'm worried about is people saying Cherry Blues shouldn't be bottomed out. Will not bottoming keys be hard to get used to? I can't imagine not bottoming keys out when I'm gaming.

Hmmm..... ProAdvantage does not allow returns it seems like.  Maybe you can find a retailer of the Addesso (n-key Cherry Blue) that will.

I think Filco (or any other manufacturer) could make a killing if they offered switch trade-ins. Buy an NKRO Tenkeyless Cherry Blue Filco, and if you don't like it, switch it for the same keyboard with Cherry Browns.

However, I sense that by going this in depth into keyboards, it's similar to entering the world of audiophiles; I'll eventually reach a point where I'll spend $100s a month on new keyboards and never be satisfied with any. I avoided becoming an audiophile by finding out enough about audio to get the best headphones for the money, and then reverting to my old ignorance-is-bliss self and being satisfied with them. I'm planning on doing something similar with mechanical keyboards. Learn enough to make a good choice and then forget what I learned and enjoy it.

[isp]

haha, is your name Sean by any chance?

[Brodie337]

Hey, nice to see you here!

Really is a pity OCN banned you, is it permanent?

Anyway, I was in your shoes when I bought my first mechanical, and I've found the Browns to be a fantastic switch. The problem with the Blues is that the activation point isn't in the same place as the deactivation point, so you cant hover over it and rapidly tap out presses.

While the Filco might be out of your price range, there a few other very nice Cherry Brown keyboards our there by Cherry and Compaq, as long as you don't mind used.

[gr1m]

No, my name is Sevag. Style of gamer? Hardcore FPS. Name a multiplayer FPS and I play it. Tense moments when I'm hunched over the keyboard, sweating with concentration and getting a 25-kill streak. If I press a key during a gaming session, you bet your ass it's gonna be slammed down. I've transcended the level of smashing my keyboard out of anger, but I'm definitely a rough user.

Thanks Brodie. Yes, it is. I thought I was a valued member after getting my 598th rep point but they banned my ass! No biggie. Good information, I think I'm definitely going with the Cherry Browns. The Filco is out of my range, but if it will be a good decision to increase my range to buy a Filco, I have no qualms. I'd rather buy the best than get something cheaper and regret it forever.

[Phaedrus2129]

Hey Afro, you won't remember me, I was a noob when you got banned, now I'm at 5k posts and the new PSU guru. 'Sup?


There's the ABS M1, Adesso MKB-125B, MKB-135B, iOne Scorpius M10, Unicomp Customizer and variants, the Cherry G80-3000, occasional G80-8200 boards, G84-4100 boards, the GeekHack space saver, the I-Rocks KR-6230, and a few odds and ends.

[Mental Hobbit]

Btw, are you touch typing?

[Brodie337]

With regard to bottoming out, it is odd at first, and you're going to bottom out anyway while gaming, bit you can get used to it.

[gr1m]

I type with my two index fingers but I'm planning on putting this eternally long summer to good use and learning how to type properly. I don't know if that's touch typing or not.

Phaedrus, I remember you. 5k posts eh, I would congratulate you but I need a rep number first They never made me a guru of anything, although the only area of expertise that I did qualify for was trolling, and being permanently banned is kind of like being a Trolling Guru. Just kind of.

[Brodie337]

As an OCN n00b, you wont remember me, but I do remember your trippy-ass avatar.

What was the name of the little Compaq that had the numpad, but a smaller layout? Cherry Browns... MX11800 or something?

EDIT!: Those ones!

[gr1m]

As an OCN n00b, you wont remember me, but I do remember your trippy-ass avatar.

EDIT!: Those ones!

http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/kugelfangibz/bunchie/

Knock yourself out! My collection.

[gr1m]

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87mnpek

My gut says to buy that but should I really get an Otaku? I'm not sure if I will have "Oh shi-  I wish I bought the damn labelled keyboard!" moments.

[Brodie337]

Buy both!

Well, thats what I did... I bought the blank caps with the normal 'board.

The Otaku WILL force you to learn to touch type, and although its a pain at first, it looks awesome.

Om the flipside, you can always buy blank keys later.

[gr1m]

Also, I do touch-type (now that I figured out what it meant). Even though I use my two index fingers, I know where my buttons are. I did not look at my keyboard once to type this post. The Otaku just looks too badass. Tenkeyless + Otaku = BAMFnation. $29 shipping to Canada though... seriously? A $120 keyboard will now cost me $150. Joy.

[Brodie337]

Hey, try shipping one to Australia... Thats fun. Spend enough time on here and you'll stop thinking about the money, trust me.

[gr1m]

That's what I'm scared of

So, all in favor of me buying an Otaku Cherry Brown tenkeyless NKRO Filco Majestouch, replacing my ****ty Logitech G15 with it and exploding from the sheer awesomeness of the Filco?

[kishy]

Hey, try shipping one to Australia... Thats fun. Spend enough time on here and you'll stop thinking about the money, trust me.

From Canada, that's around 20-25 bucks (the really slow way - rowboat post as I call it)

USA to Canada is frustrating. $29 sounds like at-cost USPS Priority to me. The frustration is because a keyboard is too large and heavy for First Class.

[Phaedrus2129]

I type with my two index fingers but I'm planning on putting this eternally long summer to good use and learning how to type properly. I don't know if that's touch typing or not.

Phaedrus, I remember you. 5k posts eh, I would congratulate you but I need a rep number first They never made me a guru of anything, although the only area of expertise that I did qualify for was trolling, and being permanently banned is kind of like being a Trolling Guru. Just kind of.

649 rep.

I'm one infraction away from a ban (I'm a potty mouth as well), but they won't infract me because I'm so helpful.

[gr1m]

That's what I said before I got the boot. But then again, I did bypass the swear filter with the word "****".

Now I'm stuck in a rut. I was excited about the Filco but reality just hit me. Am I really about to spend $150 on a keyboard?

[Phaedrus2129]

That's what I said before I got the boot. But then again, I did bypass the swear filter with the word "****".

Now I'm stuck in a rut. I was excited about the Filco but reality just hit me. Am I really about to spend $150 on a keyboard?

Yes.

How much time do you spend in direct physical contact with your CPU?


And how much time do you spend in contact with your keyboard and mouse?



My rule of thumb is that 30-50% of any computer budget should be spent on peripherals, unless you already have good ones or have a really pressing need for more under the hood. Or unless you get a great deal. Point is, peripherals are important and keyboards are no exception.


At least you're not spending it on a G19, right?

[gr1m]

Damnit, you're right. I upgraded to a Logitech G500 a few days ago, and a 24" monitor is in the mail. The G500 was God-sent. I started rediscovering the joys of my PC.

So, I'm buying the Filco. But first, I'll try selling this G15 v2. It still costs $136 in retail stores so I'll sell it local. If I make $100 from the sale, then I'll lose all faith in humanity. However, the money recuperated from selling my old monitor and G15 should make up for the $150 Filco.

[Phaedrus2129]

The G500 is a nice mouse, no denying it.


I got a great deal on a Cherry G80-8200, $35 shipped NIB. The guy is still selling them for $38 shipped. Great keyboards, but uuuuuuugggglllyyyyy. That's U-G-L-Y. But I don't mind. We're a matching pair.

[gr1m]

I was reluctant to move to laser sensors (OG Deathadder > your mother) but the features and support of Logitech mice were attractive. Then the laser sensor in the G500 and G9x proved to be as good as any optical in tests so I had no qualms about getting one.

[kishy]

How much time do you spend in direct physical contact with your CPU?

For most people, none.

It probably wouldn't work too well if operated without the HSF being present (as would be necessary to be in direct physical contact with it).

[Phaedrus2129]

For most people, none.

It probably wouldn't work too well if operated without the HSF being present (as would be necessary to be in direct physical contact with it).

I probably hold the record there, since I spent about two weeks gently fondling my Q9550 and spending time with my E2200 before I got around to installing it. But it was in a plastic sleeve, so maybe that doesn't count.

[chimera15]

No one recommends these anymore?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Scorpius-M10-Mechanical-key-switch-Keyboard-USB-PS-2-/180342664978?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item29fd42af12

Scorpius m10's are still the cheapest mechanical with blue cherry's I've seen.  They're down to like $40 on some sites I've noticed.  Maybe not perfect for gaming, not sure what the n-key rollover is, but it's a cheap mechanical, and good for typing.

[Nonmouse]

No one recommends these anymore?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Scorpius-M10-Mechanical-key-switch-Keyboard-USB-PS-2-/180342664978?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item29fd42af12

Scorpius m10's are still the cheapest mechanical with blue cherry's I've seen.  They're down to like $40 on some sites I've noticed.  Maybe not perfect for gaming, not sure what the n-key rollover is, but it's a cheap mechanical, and good for typing.

That's the problem.  It's not that it has a low price point- it's that it's cheap.  Crappy soldering, so many (most?) have switches fail either out of the box or within a few months of use.  They keep claiming to have fixed the QC issues, but people keep reporting the same problems.  Here's some pics- and keep in mind that this is a good M10 board...

They're good for harvesting blues, if you have another board you want to convert, but that's about all I'd recommend 'em for....

[kishy]

That's the problem.  It's not that it has a low price point- it's that it's cheap.  Crappy soldering, so many (most?) have switches fail either out of the box or within a few months of use.  They keep claiming to have fixed the QC issues, but people keep reporting the same problems.  Here's some pics- and keep in mind that this is a good M10 board...

They're good for harvesting blues, if you have another board you want to convert, but that's about all I'd recommend 'em for....

Is it possible to correct the poor soldering job by simply "re-flowing" the solder joints (melt them so they re-set)?

Not to say such maintenance should be necessary on a brand new purchase but...someone so inclined could do that.

[Nonmouse]

Is it possible to correct the poor soldering job by simply "re-flowing" the solder joints (melt them so they re-set)?

Not to say such maintenance should be necessary on a brand new purchase but...someone so inclined could do that.

I haven't tried it myself, but I've heard bad things- the solder is a very high-melting mix, and the traces tend to pop off the board about as often as the joints fail, requiring jumpers to fix.  Like I said, about the only thing I'd do with an M10 is strip the switches.

[ricercar]

Is it possible to correct the poor soldering job by simply "re-flowing" the solder joints (melt them so they re-set)?

That's What I did to my second Scorpius M10. the traces are all intact and Keys are all operational every time. Unlike before the fix. If there were any hi-temp solder problems, I didn't notice them.

[gr1m]

Should I even consider the Steelseries options to save money? Or should I go with the Filco Browns? I don't like the weird layout decisions of the 7G, which are fixed slightly in the 6Gv2. I also read somewhere here that a user felt that the Steelseries boards felt more solid than Filco Majestouch boards. If I can pick a 6Gv2 up for $60, should I do it?

[obsolete]

youre buying a keyboard, not a house

[ironman31]

Should I even consider the Steelseries options to save money? Or should I go with the Filco Browns? I don't like the weird layout decisions of the 7G, which are fixed slightly in the 6Gv2. I also read somewhere here that a user felt that the Steelseries boards felt more solid than Filco Majestouch boards. If I can pick a 6Gv2 up for $60, should I do it?

Idk, filcos are pretty sturdy little boards. The only thibg that might feel a little cheap are the keycaps (they do to me at least)

[washuai]

You said you're doing more typing, less gaming.  It sounds like you decided on the browns.
You could try winning the ebay White Otaku: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250645982516&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
If you're really worried about money, you can pick up the last ugly http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310225081410&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT , like Phaedrus recommended.  

Get what you want.  This is going to be your keyboard for the next couple of decades.  Make yourself be the extra $50 frugal for a month or two, to make it up to yourself, if you're worried about it.

Filcos are a solid board.  I agree the keycaps are a little flimsy.  Plus, my brand new otaku key caps had scuff marks.  I suspect the coating is to blame.  I do like the texture of them, though.  Smooth yet not slippery.

[apachi1]

if ur out of germany there is still a steelseries 7g to catch for 71

look for used stuff ive never made bad experiences with it , at least yet

[obsolete]

would that be considered useful advice at ocn?

IF IT GLOWED

ps. whats with it changing my posts to lower case? even the quote

[gr1m]

You said you're doing more typing, less gaming.  It sounds like you decided on the browns.
You could try winning the ebay White Otaku: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250645982516&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
If you're really worried about money, you can pick up the last ugly http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310225081410&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT , like Phaedrus recommended.  

Get what you want.  This is going to be your keyboard for the next couple of decades.  Make yourself be the extra $50 frugal for a month or two, to make it up to yourself, if you're worried about it.

Filcos are a solid board.  I agree the keycaps are a little flimsy.  Plus, my brand new otaku key caps had scuff marks.  I suspect the coating is to blame.  I do like the texture of them, though.  Smooth yet not slippery.

Next couple of decades eh? I guess membrane keyboards ruined me and that's probably why I'm having trouble with this purchase. Keyboards so far have been replaceable pieces of **** that cost me about $40 each replacement, that last about a year. Mechanical keyboards seem like a whole new ballgame.

If I'm really looking to keep it for decades, should I look for something better since the Filcos have flimsy keycaps? A full-sized Deck Legend maybe? I can't help but think that if I am keeping something for decades, or at least more than 2 years, I might regret not having the extra 10 keys or labelled keys, so maybe Otaku and tenkeyless are not as great as I thought.

[Shawn Stanford]

Why aren't Model Ms considered usable for FPS gaming?

[obsolete]

Should I even consider the Steelseries options to save money? Or should I go with the Filco Browns? I don't like the weird layout decisions of the 7G, which are fixed slightly in the 6Gv2. I also read somewhere here that a user felt that the Steelseries boards felt more solid than Filco Majestouch boards. If I can pick a 6Gv2 up for $60, should I do it?

youre buying a keyboard, not a house

Would that be considered useful advice at OCN?

all im saying is its $60, not a mil

[washuai]

Why aren't Model Ms considered usable for FPS gaming?

They are usable.  For some people they are too tiring.  For other people depending on the game, they have blocking on some key combinations. For others they are too loud.  For the black obsessed, M13s are not that common.

[Phaedrus2129]

My Model M was fine for gaming, just loud. It's been relegated to my workshop rig, where the NMB 4000RPM fan in my Zippy PSU renders the loudness of the board irrelevant.

[gr1m]

*whiny voice*

What the **** do I buyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

I won't lie, this is more confusing than when I dabbled into audiophilia to buy headphones. What to spend, what brand is the best, etc.

OK, to recap what I got from this thread so far:

- Spend more than $100 because you will get a quality board with no compromise that you can use for decades

- Cherry MX Browns for a gaming/typing combo

- PS2 and NKRO are musts

- Maybe not tenkeyless to increase my options

- Filco has flimsy keycaps but it's not too much of a big deal

[nijikon5]

I'm a gamer first and been FPS gaming for over 14 years. If you're a hardcore FPS gamer, go with the blacks ( or get reds if you have family in China like me ). Yeah, blacks "suck" for typing, but I honestly don't mind using my Filco or 7G ( Yes, I have two cherry black KBs ). If you aren't worried too much about the layout, the 7G is on sale at ESEA's online store for 115ish. You can also wait for the 6Gv2, supposed to be $100 with a better layout too. I've used Browns and Blues too, I just prefer Linear switches for gaming ( and so do my RL FPS buddies ).  Browns are a decent balance though, the feel of blacks don't bother me, but I understand why it can bother a lot of people ( I'm using my reds full time now and it does feel better for typing ). I wouldn't get blues if you're serious about FPS, it's just the way the switch feels, can't do presses as fast as I can on linears. I have to fully release the key instead of letting my finger sit on it.

If you care about gaming first, get the blacks.

If you care about gaming, but something a bit more comfortable to type on get the browns.

If you ask A/S/L on yahoo chat all day like ripster, blues please!