Author Topic: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)  (Read 30072 times)

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Offline Rensuya

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[IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:23:43 »




Hey everyone!
I'm happy to bring you a new keyset I have been working on for the last few months called R&R!
The inspiration/theme for this keyset are the characters Rem & Ram from Re:Zero.
Just as they are characterized as complimenting opposites, so too is each side of the keyset.
I realize this is pretty out there compared to the normal approach, but I rather like this and it's something different for a change!




Vendors: Groupbuy will be sometime between Q2/Q3 2020

US: Cannonkeys
EU: MyKeyboard
Oceania: DailyClack
Asia: iLumkb
Canada: Deskhero


Click HERE or the purple file icon below to fill out the NEW Google form












Deskmats



Eliza | PheonixStarr



Austin | Driftingbunnies


Dawn | crykn




Kendo | Onefivenine



Polaris | ai03






Disclaimer: I am aware of the GMK Oni set that went live today.
I want to make it clear that while both keysets share a very similar theme, they're very different in appearance and in no way should impact each other.
I hope that both of our sets have great success!


Special Thanks

Renders: PheonixStarr
Feedback: Xer, Hisui, Upas



Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105144.0][img]https://i.imgur.com/brT4EWP.png[/img][/url]

« Last Edit: Thu, 07 May 2020, 13:21:06 by Rensuya »

Offline Raravin

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R You decide!
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:23:53 »
WITNESSED

Offline wyrm

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R You decide!
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:24:40 »
A foolishly foolish idea born from the foolish mind of a foolhardy foolish fool.

Offline SekaiJutsu

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R You decide!
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:25:18 »
OHHHHH MYYYYY GAWWWWD

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Offline GaNeBaL

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R You decide!
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:33:05 »
PBT ty
Obsessed with 60%

Offline megaforce

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R You decide!
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:40:13 »
goddamn this is cute

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Online o3okevin

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:43:08 »
PBT

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:43:56 »
Blue “b” please...

Offline Xerpocalypse

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:45:01 »
Blue “b” please...

They're in there, in the base and alphas kits.

Offline belgium_waffles

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:46:33 »
Cute
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Offline 002 DC

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:48:48 »
the better gmk oni
« Last Edit: Sat, 14 March 2020, 22:36:36 by 002 DC »

Offline Sleepdealr

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:53:33 »
is this a joke? the ic for gmk oni was posted 4 days ago. Don't steal other ppls ideas and **** off

Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:53:47 »
the better gmk oni  :thumb:

I'd prefer it if there was no hostility here about GMK Oni. The set stands on its own merits, a nice set.

Offline Raravin

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 21:54:29 »
is this a joke? the ic for gmk oni was posted 4 days ago. Don't steal other ppls ideas and **** off

To be fair a keyset isnt made over night or in 4 days, it does take time and work as well as the renders he even acknowledged gmk oni in his IC. He has had this worked for awhile and it is two vastly different sets.

Offline Xerpocalypse

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 22:01:15 »
is this a joke? the ic for gmk oni was posted 4 days ago. Don't steal other ppls ideas and **** off

Ren has been working on this set for months; I don't know how long Bapo has been working on Oni, he only asked me for kitting advice last week and we didn't discuss the theme.  They've both been working in a vacuum on their respective ideas.

Given that you designed Blush, I'd assume that you understand that it takes far longer than 4 days to design, refine, render, and execute a keyset IC.

Offline DuellM

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 22:02:47 »
Definitely Pbt

Offline CrispFunk

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 22:04:50 »
Goddamn I was just telling my gf if someone make a set for Rem or Rem Ram I'd go in for her. What do you know this exists now!

Offline tofulo

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 22:15:43 »
these are fantastic. Wish one of the novelties had rem's spike ball weapon lol

Offline lunr

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 22:24:27 »
Have you consider using those updated hiragana alphas from GMK striker or Frost Witch?

Offline Agilr

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 22:30:42 »
I'm a bit torn on the forced white accent 6.25 & 7u spacebars, but with it being split across the middle, I can understand the decision and otherwise love it!

And no double subs :-* Thank you Rens
« Last Edit: Sat, 14 March 2020, 22:32:28 by Agilr »

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 22:38:14 »
I'm almost not even mad that this the fifth hiragana set in a week.

I have a few remarks about the kits:

Show Image

  • There seems to be a duplicate blue 1.5u \| key.
  • I believe the additional R4 1u Ctrl (last row) should be Alt instead, for Mac & true HHKB support.
  • ISO support is iffy. With this setup, there would be no む sublegend on a standard ISO layout. Instead of the current keys, I suggest using R3 \|む and either R4 <> with no sublegend or another R4 \|む (like how Serika did it).
  • The dakuten and handakuten sublegends are showing べ and ぺ, respectively. Those keys wouldn't actually produce those kana, but rather apply the diacritics to the following typed kana. Therefore, the sublegends would make more sense as just the diacritics themselves: ゛ and ゜.
  • I feel the extra B's would work better as part of the spacebars kit. I think that most people who want proper support for their ergo boards will end up buying the spacebars kit anyway.
« Last Edit: Thu, 07 May 2020, 23:57:27 by konstantin »

Offline YoRHannya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 22:46:51 »
I love the look of this set.
I am especially hype about that novelties spacebar. The ruffle/lace pattern on it is great <3

Offline wil

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 23:00:07 »
what a bizarre coincidence that two sets around the same anime come out around the same time. clearly a coincidence given how long these ICs take to put together, but how oddly specific. so many blue sets too and i think PBT might be the thing that makes this stand out compared to the rest of the field. gl with ic

Offline Jaxxstatic

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 23:02:58 »
Blue “b” please...

They're in there, in the base and alphas kits.


Ooh! Well, I’m in. My kids would love this set. And my guilty pleasure on Alice layout is one set on left, another set I love on the right. So both sets get love. I have more Keysets than keyboards, so this leaves less in the closet. 

Offline Raptor_N60

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 23:29:26 »
Since the keyset is kind of oriented to split-style keyboards, would you consider making the numpad as an individual kit?
Then you could make split colors on the numpad as well :thumb:

Also, I'm not found of how five side sublimation pbt look like, I vote for gmk.

Offline dom

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 23:30:25 »
is this a joke? the ic for gmk oni was posted 4 days ago. Don't steal other ppls ideas and **** off

I feel those two can co-exist together, market/community will decide which one they prefer (just like at the moment with GMK Lunar / Apollo / Ashes). PS: Don't act like this please, you will have a much better life if you learn to be less aggressive. I promise :) good luck!

the better gmk oni  :thumb:
I'd prefer it if there was no hostility here about GMK Oni.

People can be mean, childish and immature. Just ignore them if possible, as a designer, you should develop a thicker skin.  :thumb:
GMK for the WIN.
Good luck!


« Last Edit: Mon, 16 March 2020, 03:34:15 by dom »

Offline worldspawn

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 23:32:29 »
Since the keyset is kind of oriented to split-style keyboards, would you consider making the numpad as an individual kit?
Then you could make split colors on the numpad as well :thumb:

Also, I'm not found of how five side sublimation pbt look like, I vote for gmk.

This shouldn't require 5 side, you can get the keys in that color and dye the legends onto them, 5 side is only necessary when the legends are LIGHTER than the rest of the cap.

I vote PBT for sure.
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Offline Raptor_N60

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 14 March 2020, 23:58:11 »
Since the keyset is kind of oriented to split-style keyboards, would you consider making the numpad as an individual kit?
Then you could make split colors on the numpad as well :thumb:

Also, I'm not found of how five side sublimation pbt look like, I vote for gmk.

This shouldn't require 5 side, you can get the keys in that color and dye the legends onto them, 5 side is only necessary when the legends are LIGHTER than the rest of the cap.

I vote PBT for sure.

If that's the case, then cool, pbt is a great choice.

Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 15 March 2020, 00:16:16 »
Since the keyset is kind of oriented to split-style keyboards, would you consider making the numpad as an individual kit?
Then you could make split colors on the numpad as well :thumb:

Also, I'm not found of how five side sublimation pbt look like, I vote for gmk.

This shouldn't require 5 side, you can get the keys in that color and dye the legends onto them, 5 side is only necessary when the legends are LIGHTER than the rest of the cap.

I vote PBT for sure.

If that's the case, then cool, pbt is a great choice.

Well so far it's looking like this will be PBT based on the poll responses  :thumb:

Offline pengoot02

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 15 March 2020, 03:16:10 »
Would love this in GMK!

Offline Lufenia

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 15 March 2020, 08:37:08 »
PBT but please not EPBT, their quality hasn't been the best recently.  Kuro Shiro was disappointing.

Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 15 March 2020, 09:02:08 »
PBT but please not EPBT, their quality hasn't been the best recently.  Kuro Shiro was disappointing.
Yeah, if we go PBT this will not be ePBT

Offline asianfork

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 15 March 2020, 09:37:17 »
I honestly really like this set. Although it does look very close to Oni, there are a few differences, and I find this set to be a bit cleaner. Def going to keep an eye out on this kit.

Offline bakuretsu

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 15 March 2020, 14:37:54 »
I love the maid outfit pattern spacebars. I missed the inclusion of any black/white theme in GMK Oni, so I'm loving this. That, plus the fact that this features Rem and Ram in the same kit have really sold me on it. Looking forward to GB!

P.S. Will the Rem bow novelties need to be doubleshot or reverse dye sublimated to get the pink legends on blue keycaps? (If PBT, KAT maybe?) Also, I like PBT, but I really hate warped keys. Plus ABS would probably have better colors.
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 March 2020, 14:49:42 by bakuretsu »

Offline SoraNoTenshi

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 15 March 2020, 14:41:05 »
Pretty interesting concept, i will certainly consider it for my upcoming split board.
I wouldn't mind if PBT / ABS, ABS will probably be more colourful, so i'd go with ABS.



Offline FLFrostBite

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 15 March 2020, 15:05:48 »
These novelties are insane, man. That spacebar, especially, will be interesting to see a final product of. PBT ftw~

Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 15 March 2020, 17:45:45 »
I love the maid outfit pattern spacebars. I missed the inclusion of any black/white theme in GMK Oni, so I'm loving this. That, plus the fact that this features Rem and Ram in the same kit have really sold me on it. Looking forward to GB!

P.S. Will the Rem bow novelties need to be doubleshot or reverse dye sublimated to get the pink legends on blue keycaps? (If PBT, KAT maybe?) Also, I like PBT, but I really hate warped keys. Plus ABS would probably have better colors.

If PBT wins, which it looks like it might then we will be using a new PBT place that will not have warping issues like ePBT.

Offline Mearaz

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 15 March 2020, 23:58:01 »
Can you please add a blue F6 key, it will be perfect for split layouts like my LZ ergo.

Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 16 March 2020, 00:54:09 »
Can you please add a blue F6 key, it will be perfect for split layouts like my LZ ergo.
Yes, I'll be adding it in after I update all of the kits. If or when this makes the switch to PBT I'll be re modeling all kits to allow for more compatability for more users!

Offline Mearaz

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 16 March 2020, 04:37:29 »
Can you please add a blue F6 key, it will be perfect for split layouts like my LZ ergo.
Yes, I'll be adding it in after I update all of the kits. If or when this makes the switch to PBT I'll be re modeling all kits to allow for more compatability for more users!

Great! count me in on the group buy. It is a really good looking set.

Offline hubennj

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 17 March 2020, 22:02:47 »
 :eek: insta buy for me please make it happen!
also, GMK

Offline bliss

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 20 March 2020, 09:16:36 »
Looking good as always!

Have you considered JTK?
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Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 20 March 2020, 11:11:59 »
Looking good as always!

Have you considered JTK?
Glad you like the set! I have not, I'm personally not a huge fan of JTK is why.

Offline megaforce

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 20 March 2020, 12:53:44 »
abs pls

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Offline Tree_

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 20 March 2020, 17:30:29 »
+1 for PBT.

Offline yokern

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 21 March 2020, 14:09:29 »
GMK!!!

Offline nudoh

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R or GMK R&R? You Decide!
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 23 March 2020, 18:24:30 »
The colors on this are great. I never watched the anime, but they look cute

Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R | Update #1: PBT Wins! 3/24
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 24 March 2020, 17:03:00 »
Update #1: PBT is the winner! 3/24

So the voting has ended in a landslide in favor of PBT! The PBT manu for this set will be a new one and not ePBT. The goal of this place will be to eliminate warping and possible legend issues. I will be updating the kits a bit to reflect the change to PBT.

Also, I have seen the expressed interest to be KAT instead of cherry PBT. I'm pretty sure this will stay cherry PBT but it's not impossible this could be KAT, but with how many KAT sets are waiting to deliver still I would prefer to keep it cherry!


Offline DrHigsby

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 24 March 2020, 22:35:47 »
I’m digging the split theme here. Any consideration for ergo support? Left half pink and right half blue? All blanks of course.

Online Kerasan

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R | Update #1: PBT Wins! 3/24
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 25 March 2020, 00:50:12 »
Update #1: PBT is the winner! 3/24

So the voting has ended in a landslide in favor of PBT! The PBT manu for this set will be a new one and not ePBT. The goal of this place will be to eliminate warping and possible legend issues. I will be updating the kits a bit to reflect the change to PBT.

Also, I have seen the expressed interest to be KAT instead of cherry PBT. I'm pretty sure this will stay cherry PBT but it's not impossible this could be KAT, but with how many KAT sets are waiting to deliver still I would prefer to keep it cherry!




rensuya how would you see the possible use of KAM? This set with this profile might be interesting as there are few KAM sets

Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R | Update #1: PBT Wins! 3/24
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 26 March 2020, 23:59:10 »
I’m digging the split theme here. Any consideration for ergo support? Left half pink and right half blue? All blanks of course.

Some of these things have been considered already, a future update is coming.

Update #1: PBT is the winner! 3/24

So the voting has ended in a landslide in favor of PBT! The PBT manu for this set will be a new one and not ePBT. The goal of this place will be to eliminate warping and possible legend issues. I will be updating the kits a bit to reflect the change to PBT.

Also, I have seen the expressed interest to be KAT instead of cherry PBT. I'm pretty sure this will stay cherry PBT but it's not impossible this could be KAT, but with how many KAT sets are waiting to deliver still I would prefer to keep it cherry!




rensuya how would you see the possible use of KAM? This set with this profile might be interesting as there are few KAM sets
I'm pretty set on keeping this PBT cherry but if I was to do anything else it would be KAT over KAM as I don't like flat or "uniform" profiles.

Offline DrHigsby

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 01:14:31 »
Will you offer the R1 6 in both pink and blue? I was thinking about putting this set onto an ortho linear layout (Preonic / ID75). In those layouts, 6 usually sits on top of Y. Without the 6 in blue, it wouldn’t be possible to keep the color split even.

Thanks for the consideration :)

Offline Evo_Spec

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 20 April 2020, 00:38:38 »
*waiting patiently for dat R&R

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Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R
« Reply #53 on: Tue, 21 April 2020, 12:22:35 »
Have you consider using those updated hiragana alphas from GMK striker or Frost Witch?
Sorry did not see this till now, I had not considered using them but would be open to it if people prefer it!

*waiting patiently for dat R&R

Show Image

That will look pretty awesome on that setup! An update for the set is coming soon.

Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R
« Reply #54 on: Tue, 05 May 2020, 13:21:25 »
UPDATE 5/5/20: Added Deskmats!

-Updated kits coming soon!





Offline bakuretsu

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/5 (Deskmats added)
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 05 May 2020, 14:42:14 »
Those deskmats are adorable. I sort of wish there was an option to have blue and pink on the same mat (maybe blue background with pink hearts like the banner, or white background with a mix of blue and pink hearts), but that would probably be too many variations. Out of these two though, I'm gonna have to get blue for Rem.
« Last Edit: Tue, 05 May 2020, 16:19:56 by bakuretsu »

Offline oldcat

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/5 (Deskmats added)
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 05 May 2020, 15:28:19 »
LOVE

Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #57 on: Thu, 07 May 2020, 13:47:25 »
UPDATE 5/7/20: New kits & Renders are here!

I have added a "Blues" & "Pinks" kits to allow the user to mix and match the set however you would prefer it. If you want a full pink set for Ram or a full blue for Rem then you can have it! The base kit will still offer the standard split setup which I think is amazing and gives this set a unique twist on how sets are normally  :D

All new renders and kits are in the main post on page 1, stay safe everyone!

Btw here is the NEW Google form



Offline elguey

  • Posts: 26
Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 07 May 2020, 14:49:40 »
Rem is best girl but the full pink set looks so damn good.

This has been mentioned already but I am assuming that having the square/curly bracket keys with べ and ぺ instead of  ゛and ゜is an error, right? Also, the む is rotated in the Eliza Ram render.

Offline belerian

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 07 May 2020, 21:07:33 »
Are the latin alphas gone?

Offline Sycomore

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 07 May 2020, 21:25:40 »
Are the latin alphas gone?

Pls no, I dislike having moon runes on my keycaps, just looks cluttered in most regards.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 08 May 2020, 00:08:02 »
Show Image


I believe the second R4 Ctrl is going to need to be changed to Alt in order to support Mac and OG HHKB bottom rows correctly.

Also, not sure if this is intended, but the arrow keys seem to be using top-left aligned icons, while the rest of the icon mods are vertically centered.

This post makes some good points about the hiragana sublegends used on the ISO keys in GMK Sumi, as well as this one for GMK Oni, and I think they're applicable here as well. The following changes would make the set more accommodating for both JIS and regular ISO users, as well as making the hiragana coverage more “accurate” (in terms of correspondence to actual kana layouts), by reducing legend duplication and using the appropriate rows for the sublegends.
  • R1 \| → R1 \|
  • R3 #~  → R3 \|
  • R4 \| → R4 <>
Reasoning: ANSI users get all of the usual keys. ISO users get \| and <>, avoiding duplicate legends. Finally, JIS users get all of the correct hiragana legends on the correct rows (R4 ろ, R3 む, R1 ー). All in all, you get some benefits and no drawbacks.

The following sublegends should also be changed:
  • R2 [{ → R2 [{ or [{ ゙⬚
  • R2 ]} → R2 ]} or [{ ゚⬚
Reasoning: These sublegends are supposed to represent the (han)dakuten combining diacritics, which can be applied to several different kana, but the current legend shows them applied only to the specific kana へ, which doesn't make sense.
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 May 2020, 00:14:11 by konstantin »

Offline kidviddy

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 08 May 2020, 01:26:26 »
This post makes some good points about the hiragana sublegends used on the ISO keys in GMK Sumi, as well as this one for GMK Oni, and I think they're applicable here as well. The following changes would make the set more accommodating for both JIS and regular ISO users, as well as making the hiragana coverage more “accurate” (in terms of correspondence to actual kana layouts), by reducing legend duplication and using the appropriate rows for the sublegends.

Thanks konstantin, for bringing up this issue and for linking to my previous comments.  I should note that both of those comments were in response to designs featuring kana monolegends, where I believe I have found a reasonable compromise that suits JIS, ISO, and ANSI users alike; that is, as you mention, the replacement of R1 [ろ] or [む] with [ー], inclusion of R3 1U [む] as is already fairly standard for ISO, and replacement of R4 [む] with [ろ].  I feel on pretty solid ground recommending these changes to anyone who is considering kana monolegends for their set.

sublegends are more complicated, because the punctuation options are so many and varied. The /dev/tty set on Drop at the moment has an incredibly full-featured "Japan Set" that, in combination with the base set, allows someone to create a fully compliant ANSI, UK, or JIS layout, complete with correct punctuation characters and Japanese modifier keys!  But this requires adding a large number of extra keys.

For this reason, I've generally refrained from commenting on kana sublegend designs so far, however, looking at your suggestions:

  • R1 \| → R1 \|
  • R3 #~  → R3 \|
  • R4 \| → R4 <>
Reasoning: ANSI users get all of the usual keys. ISO users get \| and <>, avoiding duplicate legends. Finally, JIS users get all of the correct hiragana legends on the correct rows (R4 ろ, R3 む, R1 ー). All in all, you get some benefits and no drawbacks.

The following sublegends should also be changed:
  • R2 [{ → R2 [{ or [{ ゙⬚
  • R2 ]} → R2 ]} or [{ ゚⬚
Reasoning: These sublegends are supposed to represent the (han)dakuten combining diacritics, which can be applied to several different kana, but the current legend shows them applied only to the specific kana へ, which doesn't make sense.

I think I agree with everything you've said.  I wasn't sure about your recommendation to use \| on the R3 む key and <> on the R4 ろ since none of the layouts that I'm familiar with (UK, Japan, USA) feature this exact combination, but following the reasoning in your link I can see why it makes sense and avoids duplication.

In summary: I agree with konstantin regarding the movement of the kana keys and would like to lend my voice to that suggestion.  When it comes to the punctuation that goes along with those keys, I don't feel as strongly (I'd be happy enough with #~ on the R3 む and \| on the R4 ろ, for example, possibly with ¥| on the R1 ー if you really want to be true to the Japanese and avoid duplication!), but I do think he raises some interesting points that are worthy of consideration. This page, linked to in the thread konstantin linked to, goes into a lot more detail about choices of symbol keys, and I would definitely like to take the time to read through it properly before deciding which side of that fence I sit on.

EDIT: Spelling/grammar; s/thread/comment/
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 May 2020, 11:48:21 by kidviddy »

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 08 May 2020, 01:50:37 »
For this reason, I've generally refrained from commenting on kana sublegend designs so far, however, looking at your suggestions:

  • R1 \| → R1 \|
  • R3 #~  → R3 \|
  • R4 \| → R4 <>
Reasoning: ANSI users get all of the usual keys. ISO users get \| and <>, avoiding duplicate legends. Finally, JIS users get all of the correct hiragana legends on the correct rows (R4 ろ, R3 む, R1 ー). All in all, you get some benefits and no drawbacks.

The following sublegends should also be changed:
  • R2 [{ → R2 [{ or [{ ゙⬚
  • R2 ]} → R2 ]} or [{ ゚⬚
Reasoning: These sublegends are supposed to represent the (han)dakuten combining diacritics, which can be applied to several different kana, but the current legend shows them applied only to the specific kana へ, which doesn't make sense.

I think I agree with everything you've said.  I wasn't sure about you're recommendation to use \| on the R3 む key and <> on the R4 ろ since none of the layouts that I'm familiar with (UK, Japan, USA) feature this exact combination, but following the reasoning in your link I can see why it makes sense and avoids duplication.

In summary: I agree with konstantin regarding the movement of the kana keys and would like to lend my voice to that suggestion.  When it comes to the punctuation that goes along with those keys, I don't feel as strongly (I'd be happy enough with #~ on the R3 む and \| on the R4 ろ, for example, possibly with ¥| on the R1 ー if you really want to be true to the Japanese and avoid duplication!), but I do think he raises some interesting points that are worthy of consideration. This page, linked to in the thread konstantin linked to, goes into a lot more detail about choices of symbol keys, and I would definitely like to take the time to read through it properly before deciding which side of that fence I sit on.

Thanks for your thoughtful input on my suggestions. In that case, I will propose an alternative solution for the punctuation and leave it up to the designer to make an informed decision about what would work best for their set, based on everything that's been put forward so far.

The alternative to the above R1, R3, R4 changes would be:
  • R1 \| → R1 \|
  • R3 #~  → R3 #~
This approach favors the UK-oriented #~, \| configuration over the more general \|, <>.

Offline LazyAfternoons

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #64 on: Fri, 08 May 2020, 04:00:18 »
Count me in.

Offline SLPNick

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #65 on: Fri, 08 May 2020, 10:25:00 »
Show Image

Will this Eng only version be available?

Offline Rensuya

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 09 May 2020, 12:40:34 »
Show Image

Will this Eng only version be available?
It will most likely only be hiragana subs for this set. If I added the Latin kit back I would either have to offer full Latin for both halves or much bigger Latin kit.

Online jiggyboybrian

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #67 on: Thu, 28 May 2020, 03:30:28 »
Cant wait for this set especially with season two coming soon!

Offline DireRaven247

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #68 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 23:24:36 »
Any update on when this set will run?

Offline tsumicchi

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/5 (Deskmats added)
« Reply #69 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 09:11:08 »
Those deskmats are adorable. I sort of wish there was an option to have blue and pink on the same mat (maybe blue background with pink hearts like the banner, or white background with a mix of blue and pink hearts), but that would probably be too many variations. Out of these two though, I'm gonna have to get blue for Rem.

I second this! Considering the whole theme of the set is their complimentary halves, it only makes sense to have a deskmat with the colors of both girls. I think the white bg with pink and blue hearts would look lovely!

 I'm excitedly looking forward to this set, I think it's a wonderful idea.

Offline Hdjekso

  • Posts: 28
Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 02 August 2020, 23:34:39 »
Really liking the set, is this project still a go?

Offline Ramen Champ

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 23 August 2020, 11:18:09 »
Nice job on the novelties Ren! Looks great
Bauer |
Matrix 1.2og |
Matrix 8x2.0 | Unikorn |
Iron165 | OTD360c |
Nunu | Noxary X65 Proto | HHKB Pro2

Offline engyshow

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 17 September 2020, 04:09:49 »
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I LOVE IT

Offline mellowcake

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Re: [IC] PBT R&R Update 5/7 (New Kits & Renders)
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 18 October 2020, 09:23:10 »
interested!