Author Topic: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB  (Read 15308 times)

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Offline 2Moons

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[IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:17:13 »
Back at it again Geekhack,

This is my first interest check for a keyset, GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) White on Black.



Design & Inspiration
The original idea for this set comes from having a fully functional Japanese kit. Current GMK sets are not functional on a modern Japanese keyboard. This set hopes to inspire the idea of having future GMK IC's the chance to offer a Japanese extension kit as an option. Hopefully this might inspire new types of keyboards to be used. This kit combines both ANSI and JIS.

Base Kit


Alphas Kit


Extensions Kit


Spacebar Kit


Deskpad?

Artisan Collaboration?

Vendors

    JP: Tentative
   US: Tentative
 SEA: Monokei.co
   EU: Mykeyboard.eu

Documentation

Filco Minila Air/GH60 Minila JIS



Filco Majestouch JIS



Clueboard JIS
https://clueboard.co/
 


Apple JIS


Libertouch and Realforce JIS (To be Added)


Leopold and Archiss JIS Keyboards, and others

Next Steps
Find Vendors
More renders
Higher Quality Renders

Check for Updates on my Discord


8/28
  • 2 Vendors Tentative
  • Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry approved the use of the words "Japanese Industrial Standards."
https://www.meti.go.jp/english/index.html

Thanks
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 November 2020, 03:41:42 by 2Moons »

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:17:45 »
Reserved

Offline Coby

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:24:50 »
 Legends are big small :/  but looks clean.

Offline Coby

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:25:33 »
 I mean a bit small smh

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:27:15 »
Legends are big small :/  but looks clean.

I mean a bit small smh

Thanks I'll try to get better renders.

Offline Pluto19

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:27:59 »
I appreciate this project. Looking forward to seeing renders and vendors.
GMK.
WoB.
Aiming for accurate legend implementation instead of aesthetics.

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:30:29 »
Aiming for accurate legend implementation instead of aesthetics.

Yes, this. Thank you so much.

Offline Rayndalf

  • Posts: 404
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:31:13 »
Nice to (finally) see a proper Japanese set. I don't know Japanese, but at least with this I'd look like an authentic poser. Certainly a novel way to cover an ISO board that is unusual but actually makes sense.

Offline Agilr

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:36:12 »
Glad to see you're finally taking the steps to make this a reality. I see you've omitted a few keys from what we settled on initially, but I'm so excited to see this run as new moulds will be available to open up to a wider community.

Cheers 2Moons!

Offline OtherAndrew

  • Posts: 232
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:36:45 »
First off, I want to say that I appreciate the work you put into this project as somebody who's been working on this concept as well. After examining the renders, there are a few concerns I have:

- Missing small kana (ぁ、ぃ、ぅ、ぇ、ぉ、っ、ゃ、ゅ、ょ)
- Missing を
- Missing ¥ on ANSI pipe keys
- Missing 「」on ANSI bracket keys
- Missing ー on ANSI underscore/dash key
- む on pipe key in Alphas Kit
- Top-left aligned text legends in some places, dead center in others: Please keep it all center left.
- Half-width/full-width modifier appearance: A double-line version will exist with GMK Beta, but as far as I know a single-line version does not (半/全). Wouldn't this be a good opportunity to introduce this legend? If you intend on making this a double-line modifier I suggest changing it to match its appearance on GMK Beta for clarity.
- How do you intend to handle legends that will be difficult/impossible to reproduce with doubleshot molding (英数、無変換、変換)? GMK Camping R2 had this issue where the kanji legends on the novelty arrows had to be pad-printed rather than doubleshot.

I appreciate this project. Looking forward to seeing renders and vendors.
GMK.
WoB.
Aiming for accurate legend implementation instead of aesthetics.
The current implementation of hiragana sublegends (V2) is accurate aside from the lack of a ¥, assuming one is using a Japanese IME on an ANSI layout. All the punctuation is in the right place and all hiragana are accounted for.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 August 2020, 02:07:17 by OtherAndrew »

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:44:06 »
First off, I want to say that I appreciate the work you put into this project as somebody who's been working on this concept as well. After examining the renders, there are a few concerns I have:

- Missing small kana (ぁ、ぃ、ぅ、ぇ、ぉ、っ、ゃ、ゅ、ょ)
- Missing を
- Missing ¥ on ANSI pipe keys
- む on pipe key in Alphas Kit
- Top-left aligned text legends in some places, dead center in others: Please keep it all center left.
- Appearance of half-width/full-width modifier: A double-line version will exist with GMK Beta, but as far as I know a single-line version does not (半/全). Wouldn't this be a good opportunity to introduce this legend? If you intend on making this a double-line modifier I suggest changing it to match its appearance on GMK Beta for clarity.
- How do you intend to handle legends that will be difficult/impossible to reproduce with doubleshot molding (英数、無変換、変換)? GMK Camping R2 had this issue where the kanji legends on the novelty arrows had to be pad-printed rather than doubleshot.

I appreciate this project. Looking forward to seeing renders and vendors.
GMK.
WoB.
Aiming for accurate legend implementation instead of aesthetics.
The current implementation of hiragana sublegends (V2) is accurate aside from the lack of a ¥, assuming one is using a Japanese IME on an ANSI layout. All the punctuation is in the right place and all hiragana are accounted for.

Thank you for this. I will pour over this information for the next round of renders. As far as the small kanas, they were removed but probably they should be put back for accuracy.

Quote
The current implementation of hiragana sublegends (V2) is accurate aside from the lack of a ¥, assuming one is using a Japanese IME on an ANSI layout. All the punctuation is in the right place and all hiragana are accounted for.
The current GMK hiragana layout (ANSI) as well as the JIS layout is included in this base kit.
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:50:27 by 2Moons »

Offline Pluto19

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:55:27 »
The current implementation of hiragana sublegends (V2) is accurate aside from the lack of a ¥, assuming one is using a Japanese IME on an ANSI layout. All the punctuation is in the right place and all hiragana are accounted for.
Yes. I'm aware of the current Hiragana sublegends. It's still nice to see sets aiming for accuracy when there are plenty of designers that either haven't or don't care about accuracy in favor of their aesthetics. Not even exclusive to Japanese

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 00:11:53 »
Libertouch and Realforce compatibility will be added.

R2A-JP4 Realforce among others.

Offline haystack

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 00:21:21 »
However this turns out, I applaud your efforts.

Offline Sifo

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 00:28:53 »
The current implementation of hiragana sublegends (V2) is accurate aside from the lack of a ¥, assuming one is using a Japanese IME on an ANSI layout. All the punctuation is in the right place and all hiragana are accounted for.
Yes. I'm aware of the current Hiragana sublegends. It's still nice to see sets aiming for accuracy when there are plenty of designers that either haven't or don't care about accuracy in favor of their aesthetics. Not even exclusive to Japanese

it's also because it's ****ing expensive to get those legend molds made for a very small portion of potential buyers

Krelbit and I really wanted to have proper JIS support for Alter but when you look further into it, it just isn't feasible for a set like that.

That's why you need projects like this one to help get the legends made first, and then hopefully designers will include them in future sets.

I really hate that I made a Japanese keycap set that Japanese people can't even use. The alternative is to not use hiragana subs at all, perhaps that's the right thing to do, perhaps not. But doubleshotting isn't like dyesub where you can just send over a layout file for them to print, every new legend costs hundreds.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 August 2020, 00:30:32 by Sifo »
(Forever) Illustrious.

Offline kidviddy

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 01:03:55 »
Thank you for running this! Very excited to see somebody taking this on, and especially pleased that you are offering both latin monolegend and kana sublegend variants. Iíll take a proper look in the morning and see if thereís any feedback I can offer, but I am extremely keen to see this project succeed!

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 02:36:46 »
Thank you for running this! Very excited to see somebody taking this on, and especially pleased that you are offering both latin monolegend and kana sublegend variants. Iíll take a proper look in the morning and see if thereís any feedback I can offer, but I am extremely keen to see this project succeed!

Thank you so much. I'll take any advice you have and I really appreciate it.

Offline Solotov

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 02:53:10 »
Would love to have "Enter" key in Japanese as well  :thumb:
Flex is love, flex is life.

Offline obviouslygene

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 04:10:00 »
Let's goooo

Offline finalarcadia

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 09:36:07 »
Been waiting for the weeb wob

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Online ddrfraser1

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 09:53:16 »
Sexy. I've seen a few comments about the small legend size. I assumed this was an aesthetic choice. If that's true, I think it looks great. Nothing wrong with larger/standard GMK size fonts but it's nice to see somehting different. I think these small legends looks sleek and somewhat minimalist. Either way, great set.

So are you offering topre and cherry mount?

Offline kidviddy

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 12:21:52 »
I'll take any advice you have and I really appreciate it.

I've had another look this morning and it looks good!  Others have commented on the small legend size; I am assuming you will want to use GMK's existing moulds where possible so you will need to match your new keys to the dimensions of those.  From your other response it sounds as if this is just an issue with the render so I'll look forward to seeing updated renders when they're available :-)

Is the lack of quaternary legends (small ぁぃぅぇぉゃゅょ, and full-sized を) an aesthetic choice or an oversight?  Since you are in general following a fairly conservative WoB aesthetic, my preference would be to include them as most Japanese keyboards do, even though skipping them, or including を but not the others, are both valid choices from an aesthetic point of view.

Your カタカナ/ひらがな key looks a little imbalanced; either they could be brought to the centre, or the third ローマ字 legend that appears on some designs could be added.

In general I agree with your decision to go with text mods and standard 無変換/変換/英数/かな labels for the legends, as it is the more conservative, ďstandardĒ choice.  However, have you considered offering icon mod alternatives for 無変換/変換, perhaps in the extensions kit? With other mods, people can swap them out for icon mods from other sets if they prefer, but with 無変換/変換 those mods are not generally offered by other sets, and there are no standard moulds currently available.  And they are popular: Every keyboard pictured in your original post uses icon mods for those keys.  Just a thought.

Youíll probably want a 4.5U space bar for compatibility with existing Japanese keyboards.  Iím not sure whether GMK has the tooling to support this, though; thatís one thing to bear in mind as I expect that the costs of developing such tooling would be much higher than new moulds.  I donít really know, though, so just something to keep in the back of your mind as needing to confirm with GMK.  Your other ďfunnyĒ spacebar sizes may run into the same difficulty.  They definitely have 3U support now, but Iím not sure about 4U, for example.

Anyway, great job so far, and Iím looking forward to seeing this develop!

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 18:55:26 »
- Missing ¥ on ANSI pipe keys

[...]

The current implementation of hiragana sublegends (V2) is accurate aside from the lack of a ¥, assuming one is using a Japanese IME on an ANSI layout. All the punctuation is in the right place and all hiragana are accounted for.

Including the yen sign in ANSI-based Japanese keysets is not accurate and should not be done.

Adding a character as a (sub)legend to a key implies that said character can be produced by pressing that key together with a certain combination of modifiers and lock states on a given logical layout that the (sub)legends are meant to represent.

Usually, the yen sign (•, U+00A5) isn't a character that can be typed on a standard Japanese keyboard layout by pressing any combination of keys and modifiers, in any lock state.
Instead, • is traditionally just a graphical representation of the backslash (\, U+005C) on most Japanese systems. In other words, the actual character that's being typed is a backslash; it just gets displayed on the screen as a yen sign. (Yes, it still works like this even in the age of Unicode and emoji skin color modifiers and gender combination sequences.)
Not all systems do it like this, though, and some (e.g. macOS) give you the option of outputting an actual • character, but I wouldn't call this the norm.

Here's a concrete example pertaining to this keyset:
Adding • as a quaternary sublegend (top-right in GMK) to the \|む key would imply that you are able to type a • character by pressing this key together with Shift while in kana input mode. This is not the case; doing that will just produce む. In order to type •, you would have to change your logical layout, keyboard type, or sometimes even your system language, to Japanese; in which case the character would be produced by just pressing the key regularly (no Shift and no kana mode), like regular backslash. So the quaternary (top-right) position is incorrect either way.

For that reason, • should not be included in ANSI-based Japanese keyset legends. For JIS-based keysets it's okay, since those are intended to be used with Japanese layouts on Japanese systems anyway.

By the way, all of this also applies to the won sign (₩) in Korean keysets, which works the same way.


- Missing small kana (ぁ、ぃ、ぅ、ぇ、ぉ、っ、ゃ、ゅ、ょ)
- Missing を
- Missing 「」on ANSI bracket keys
- Missing ー on ANSI underscore/dash key
- む on pipe key in Alphas Kit
- Top-left aligned text legends in some places, dead center in others: Please keep it all center left.
- Half-width/full-width modifier appearance: A double-line version will exist with GMK Beta, but as far as I know a single-line version does not (半/全). Wouldn't this be a good opportunity to introduce this legend? If you intend on making this a double-line modifier I suggest changing it to match its appearance on GMK Beta for clarity.

Your remaining remarks I agree with. I would like to add that the current sublegend on the R1 •|へ JIS key is incorrect; it's supposed to be •|ー. Also, the quaternary sublegend on the /?ろ key is supposed to be a (U+30FB), but that might just be a rendering error.

The single-line 半/全 legend mold does exist; it was introduced in GMK Mecha-01.


2Moons, feel free to use these references to double-check if you got the ANSI-based portion of the legends right. Also these for cross referencing the legends you have with the standard JP layouts.


Edit:
Your カタカナ/ひらがな key looks a little imbalanced; either they could be brought to the centre, or the third ローマ字 legend that appears on some designs could be added.

In general I agree with your decision to go with text mods and standard 無変換/変換/英数/かな labels for the legends, as it is the more conservative, ďstandardĒ choice.  However, have you considered offering icon mod alternatives for 無変換/変換, perhaps in the extensions kit? With other mods, people can swap them out for icon mods from other sets if they prefer, but with 無変換/変換 those mods are not generally offered by other sets, and there are no standard moulds currently available.  And they are popular: Every keyboard pictured in your original post uses icon mods for those keys.  Just a thought.

Youíll probably want a 4.5U space bar for compatibility with existing Japanese keyboards.  Iím not sure whether GMK has the tooling to support this, though; thatís one thing to bear in mind as I expect that the costs of developing such tooling would be much higher than new moulds.  I donít really know, though, so just something to keep in the back of your mind as needing to confirm with GMK.  Your other ďfunnyĒ spacebar sizes may run into the same difficulty.  They definitely have 3U support now, but Iím not sure about 4U, for example.
+1 for these suggestions as well!
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 September 2020, 17:25:56 by konstantin »

Offline parablol

  • Posts: 79
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 21:02:14 »
Yessss my JIS Filco has been waiting for this!!!

Offline ThePanduuh

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 21:36:09 »
I am not Japanese, I don't use JIS layout (except this odd Topre board I happened to trade for), and I don't know of any [cherry mx] boards that support JIS layout, but I am all for getting a proper JIS layout keyset through GMK because, like others have said, that's more compatibility to add to future keysets and accurate legends!

I hope people who have legitimate use for this layout and have genuine feedback to make this accurate come through and make this happen.
Iron 165 SE | KBD8x MKII | Cypher | Lubrigante+Wonderland

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 21:58:42 »

Quote
I've had another look this morning and it looks good!  Others have commented on the small legend size; I am assuming you will want to use GMK's existing moulds where possible so you will need to match your new keys to the dimensions of those.  From your other response it sounds as if this is just an issue with the render so I'll look forward to seeing updated renders when they're available :-)

The legends need to conform to the standards of QMK which will need to change. I'll be making sure that they are the correct size, not only for this, but so that they're clear in the renders. I'm pretty inexperienced, but I've reached out to a few people to make the right changes.

Quote
Is the lack of quaternary legends (small ぁぃぅぇぉゃゅょ, and full-sized を) an aesthetic choice or an oversight?  Since you are in general following a fairly conservative WoB aesthetic, my preference would be to include them as most Japanese keyboards do, even though skipping them, or including を but not the others, are both valid choices from an aesthetic point of view.

These are going back in.

Quote
Your カタカナ/ひらがな key looks a little imbalanced; either they could be brought to the centre, or the third ローマ字 legend that appears on some designs could be added.

You're right, the ひらがな here needs to go to the bottom row. Some other keys need to be left or right justified.

Quote
In general I agree with your decision to go with text mods and standard 無変換/変換/英数/かな labels for the legends, as it is the more conservative, ďstandardĒ choice.  However, have you considered offering icon mod alternatives for 無変換/変換, perhaps in the extensions kit? With other mods, people can swap them out for icon mods from other sets if they prefer, but with 無変換/変換 those mods are not generally offered by other sets, and there are no standard moulds currently available.  And they are popular: Every keyboard pictured in your original post uses icon mods for those keys.  Just a thought.

This is a really good point. Some of them are for Mac compatibility which is something I really need to put in the documentation. It would probably be better to offer icons for both. However, I might have to have them made or try to find them somewhere as I don't have them. It would be nice to put them in the extensions kit or another kit.

Quote
Youíll probably want a 4.5U space bar for compatibility with existing Japanese keyboards.  Iím not sure whether GMK has the tooling to support this, though; thatís one thing to bear in mind as I expect that the costs of developing such tooling would be much higher than new moulds.  I donít really know, though, so just something to keep in the back of your mind as needing to confirm with GMK.  Your other ďfunnyĒ spacebar sizes may run into the same difficulty.  They definitely have 3U support now, but Iím not sure about 4U, for example.

The main spacebar in the current base kit is 4.5u. The second and third spacebars in the main kit are 6.5u and 7u. The extensions spacebars are 2x 2u, 2x 1.5u, 3u, and 4u. I'm interested to find out what GMK cannot offer or seeing what we can do. 4u is really not necessary probably since there are few boards that will likely use it. I haven't checked the size of the Realforce or Libertouch yet.

Quote
Anyway, great job so far, and Iím looking forward to seeing this develop!

Thank you. Your help is appreciated.

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 22:04:19 »
- Missing ¥ on ANSI pipe keys

[...]

The current implementation of hiragana sublegends (V2) is accurate aside from the lack of a ¥, assuming one is using a Japanese IME on an ANSI layout. All the punctuation is in the right place and all hiragana are accounted for.

Including the yen sign in ANSI-based Japanese keysets is not accurate and should not be done.

Adding a character as a (sub)legend to a key implies that said character can be produced by pressing that key together with a certain combination of modifiers and lock states on a given logical layout that the (sub)legends are meant to represent.

Usually, the yen sign (•, U+00A5) isn't a character that can be typed on a standard Japanese keyboard layout by pressing any combination of keys and modifiers, in any lock state.
Instead, • is traditionally just a graphical representation of the backslash (\, U+005C) on most Japanese systems. In other words, the actual character that's being input is a backslash; it just gets displayed on the screen as a yen sign. (Yes, it still works like this even in the age of Unicode and emoji skin color modifiers and gender combination sequences.)
Not all systems do it like this, though, and some (e.g. macOS) give you the option of outputting an actual • character, but I wouldn't call this the norm.

Here's a concrete example pertaining to this keyset:
Adding • as a quaternary sublegend (top-right in GMK) to the \|む key would imply that you are able to type a • character by pressing this key together with Shift while in kana input mode. This is not the case; doing that will just produce む. In order to type •, you would have to change your logical layout, keyboard type, or sometimes even your system language, to Japanese; in which case the character would be produced by just pressing the key regularly (no Shift and no kana mode), like regular backslash. So the quaternary (top-right) position is incorrect either way.

For that reason, • should not be included in ANSI-based Japanese keyset legends. For JIS-based keysets it's okay, since those are intended to be used with Japanese layouts on Japanese systems anyway.

By the way, all of this also applies to the won sign (₩) in Korean keysets, which works the same way.


- Missing small kana (ぁ、ぃ、ぅ、ぇ、ぉ、っ、ゃ、ゅ、ょ)
- Missing を
- Missing 「」on ANSI bracket keys
- Missing ー on ANSI underscore/dash key
- む on pipe key in Alphas Kit
- Top-left aligned text legends in some places, dead center in others: Please keep it all center left.
- Half-width/full-width modifier appearance: A double-line version will exist with GMK Beta, but as far as I know a single-line version does not (半/全). Wouldn't this be a good opportunity to introduce this legend? If you intend on making this a double-line modifier I suggest changing it to match its appearance on GMK Beta for clarity.

Your remaining remarks I agree with. I would like to add that the current sublegend on the R1 •|へ JIS key is incorrect; it's supposed to be •|ー. Also, the quaternary sublegend on the /?ろ key is supposed to be a (U+30FB), but that might just be a rendering error.

The single-line 半/全 legend mold does exist; it was introduced in GMK Mecha-01.


2Moons, feel free to use these references to double-check if you got the ANSI-based portion of the legends right. Also these for cross referencing the legends you have with the standard JP layouts.



The extra へ I noticed right after posting. It will be changed. I'll be looking at the references you posted and checking against the current layout.

Offline Blastoise

  • Posts: 51
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 22:09:53 »
It would be interesting to add sublegends to the extensions as well! Thank  you!

Offline kidviddy

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 23:38:39 »
Another thing I just noticed ó itís a little bit difficult to tell from the renders, but do you have a 2U shift?  That, as well as a bottom-row 1.75U Ctrl key, is helpful for a GH60 MiniLa-style bottom row like the one of you have pictured. I actually bought a GH60(-like) PCB from YMDK with a view to building a JIS-compatible layout with it, but havenít got around to building it yet because I realised none of the keysets Iíve bought so far have that bottom-row 1.75U Ctrl.

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 23:48:00 »
Another thing I just noticed ó itís a little bit difficult to tell from the renders, but do you have a 2U shift?  That, as well as a bottom-row 1.75U Ctrl key, is helpful for a GH60 MiniLa-style bottom row like the one of you have pictured. I actually bought a GH60(-like) PCB from YMDK with a view to building a JIS-compatible layout with it, but havenít got around to building it yet because I realised none of the keysets Iíve bought so far have that bottom-row 1.75U Ctrl.

Both will be added. Those will both be really nice to have. Thank you for this.

Offline equalunique

  • Posts: 538
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 27 August 2020, 13:13:02 »
I'm excited for this. I have a black Filco JIS board that will benefit from everything here, especially the 4.5u spacebar.

Also, after buying the WoB 40s kit and WoB Colevrak+ kit, I found myself wishing for a WoB Alphas kit to avoid having to sacrifice a full WoB base kit just for a small 40% keyboard. The WoB Alphas kit here will solve that problem for me. Will grab at least one of them.

Offline Owl-

  • Posts: 177
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 27 August 2020, 20:40:53 »
That 4u spacebar needs to happen! my clueboard is ready! Really keen to know what the spacing for it would be underneath.

Offline Jinho

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 08 September 2020, 15:23:29 »
wew, i actually quite like this set. wob never lost, and i personally like small latin + small foreign legends a lot.
pog pog

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 08 September 2020, 18:23:28 »
wew, i actually quite like this set. wob never lost, and i personally like small latin + small foreign legends a lot.

Thanks so much. The small legends are because I need to get proper GMK renders. This set will try to use as many of the current GMK legends as possible to reduce costs. A lot has transpired behind the scenes recently and more was added and legends were adjusted. The discord has all the latest. Stay tuned. Cheers.

251341-0

Offline ryukomatoi

  • Posts: 13
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 09 September 2020, 00:10:40 »
I do agree on the legends being a bit too small, but from a design perspective, it does make sense. They are in respective sizes to the text in the modifiers and don't stick out too much in comparison to the Japanese texts. Also, being made by GMK, they would still look very sharp. Overall, very glad to see another WoB set, this time with an Extension and Mac set! I'm in! Good luck with the behind the scenes!

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 09 September 2020, 04:19:56 »
I do agree on the legends being a bit too small, but from a design perspective, it does make sense. They are in respective sizes to the text in the modifiers and don't stick out too much in comparison to the Japanese texts. Also, being made by GMK, they would still look very sharp. Overall, very glad to see another WoB set, this time with an Extension and Mac set! I'm in! Good luck with the behind the scenes!

Seeing as these are just KLE mockups, the legends will not look like that in the actual keyset. They will be like in any GMK hiragana set.

Offline ryukomatoi

  • Posts: 13
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 09 September 2020, 22:23:06 »
I do agree on the legends being a bit too small, but from a design perspective, it does make sense. They are in respective sizes to the text in the modifiers and don't stick out too much in comparison to the Japanese texts. Also, being made by GMK, they would still look very sharp. Overall, very glad to see another WoB set, this time with an Extension and Mac set! I'm in! Good luck with the behind the scenes!

Seeing as these are just KLE mockups, the legends will not look like that in the actual keyset. They will be like in any GMK hiragana set.

This looks more ideal. Can't wait to see the future renders if they will look similar to this.

EDIT: OP, for the extensions kit, will you add a Caps Lock keycap please?
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 September 2020, 22:27:50 by ryukomatoi »

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 10 September 2020, 04:36:26 »
Realforce and Filco have given permission for the keyboard community to use these symbols. I'll be adding them to my GitHub.

251473-0

Offline Techlet

  • Posts: 30
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 10 September 2020, 14:28:11 »
Any chance for a couple of extra generic 1.5u mods (Super, System, Code, Fn, etc.) either in the Extension or Base kit?

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 11 September 2020, 01:06:01 »
Any chance for a couple of extra generic 1.5u mods (Super, System, Code, Fn, etc.) either in the Extension or Base kit?

I've updated the kits to the latest version, it should have some extras in the extensions kit.

Offline SleepyJacky

  • Posts: 5
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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 11 September 2020, 04:09:44 »
I have next to no knowledge of Japanese, but even I can appreciate the work youíre doing to standardize a system like this for future use within the community. You can never go wrong with WOB and I can see this being a home run after you gather additional feedback from those who are also knowledgeable. Hoping you can make this happen! :thumb:

Offline Techlet

  • Posts: 30
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 11 September 2020, 17:27:36 »
I've updated the kits to the latest version, it should have some extras in the extensions kit.

Nice. Thanks!

Offline nonexistentlion

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 12 September 2020, 14:57:26 »
As a Japanese in the hobby that types in both Japanese and English, this is a development that I can't appreciate enough.
Very much looking forward to it. Keep up the good work!

Offline RominRonin

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 20 September 2020, 23:48:19 »
Hi, this looks nice. Is there a chance of updating the kit pictures to show which row each keycap supports?

Thanks

Offline 2Moons

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 22 September 2020, 04:24:42 »
Hi, this looks nice. Is there a chance of updating the kit pictures to show which row each keycap supports?

Thanks

Yep, we're working on this right now.

Offline tsundeoku

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 31 October 2020, 23:48:26 »
This is just what I need!

I'm still looking over all of the minor details, but I would be especially happy if these were included, in descending order of personal importance:

  • 1.5U Command and Option keys
  • 1U かな and 英数 keys
  • Numpad keys without navigation sublegends
  • An = key for the top row of the numpad
« Last Edit: Sat, 31 October 2020, 23:52:51 by tsundeoku »

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 01:38:45 »
Nice. Watching this.

Offline Pubeessence

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 04:23:26 »
Solid idea, especially with the WoB. Excited to see this become reality.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 04:39:10 »
I'm still looking over all of the minor details, but I would be especially happy if these were included, in descending order of personal importance:

  • 1.5U Command and Option keys
  • 1U かな and 英数 keys
  • Numpad keys without navigation sublegends
  • An = key for the top row of the numpad

1u 英数 and かな are included in the updated base kit, and 1.5u System keys are in the extension kit. :)

Offline tsundeoku

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Re: [IC] GMK JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) WoB
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 01 November 2020, 06:19:22 »
1u 英数 and かな are included in the updated base kit, and 1.5u System keys are in the extension kit. :)

I see the 1U 英数 and かな keys now. Great!

What are "System keys," though? I don't see Command or Option.