Author Topic: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「Group Buy Live Now」  (Read 89335 times)

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Offline nu_types

  • Formerly Iredeus
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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #150 on: Thu, 16 April 2020, 19:23:09 »
This reminds me of a thing that happened a few years ago between a team of "mostly" engineers and another company who financed some stuff...

Oh, how the turn tables.

Offline JME

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #151 on: Thu, 16 April 2020, 20:45:08 »
Kono going off the rails and not even including the highlight accent ESC...Not paying for a add-on set just for one key.
Hope RaySasQuach gets creative control of this GB, otherwise i'll pass.

Offline belerian

  • Posts: 15
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #152 on: Thu, 16 April 2020, 21:32:45 »
What is your opinion on splitting the numpad portion of the full kit into its own separate kit?

Offline Daellin

  • Posts: 36
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #153 on: Thu, 16 April 2020, 21:46:22 »
I'd rather buy it overpriced from aftermarket than pay Kono a dollar if they wrest control of the GB from Ray.

Offline oldcat

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #154 on: Thu, 16 April 2020, 22:20:21 »
What is your opinion on splitting the numpad portion of the full kit into its own separate kit?

This has been debated for a while I believe.
I would really like to have that kind of base as well (as I only use 65%), not sure if it will happen.

Offline byoliven

  • Posts: 29
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #155 on: Thu, 16 April 2020, 22:29:45 »
What is your opinion on splitting the numpad portion of the full kit into its own separate kit?

This has been debated for a while I believe.
I would really like to have that kind of base as well (as I only use 65%), not sure if it will happen.
I prefer splitting those numpad portion into separate kit too.


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Offline RaySasQuach

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  • Posts: 146
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #156 on: Fri, 17 April 2020, 01:25:57 »
What is your opinion on splitting the numpad portion of the full kit into its own separate kit?
I am strongly considering this right now actually after talking to a few people about it actually. It is a nice way to bring the price down and the amount of numpad users are kinda low in this hobby I'd imagine.


Offline iammeuru

  • Posts: 51
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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #157 on: Fri, 17 April 2020, 03:55:12 »
I strongly hope you don't do this... I am buying up support for basically all kits, and splitting off numpad never seems to reduce the cost more than a few bucks on each kit, but rather increases the cost for me by $30 or so. I was planning to buy two sets of Shoko (one for display only, and another for use), and this will significantly increase the cost... Also, there are a lot of 1800 boards out there, and plenty of full-size users (though I suspect most of those don't participate on GH, or /r/mk much)

Offline IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES

  • Posts: 1079
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #158 on: Fri, 17 April 2020, 10:33:00 »
If MOQ is 500, base kit split off isn't so bad, as you can get 99 base and 40 numpad. At 250, you're often near 120 base and 40 numpad, and base could have been 125 or 130 with numpad in it.

Offline daniwa

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #159 on: Fri, 17 April 2020, 10:40:31 »
From a sustainability point of view, I would very much like to not buy things that I'm not going to use.

Offline konstantin

  • Formerly constexpr
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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #160 on: Fri, 17 April 2020, 10:41:01 »
If MOQ is 500, base kit split off isn't so bad, as you can get 99 base and 40 numpad. At 250, you're often near 120 base and 40 numpad, and base could have been 125 or 130 with numpad in it.

The base kit is still going to be large without the numpad, it's not going to reach $99 @ 500 MOQ.

Offline Mcnos

  • Posts: 1144
    • GMK Fuyu
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #161 on: Fri, 17 April 2020, 11:16:27 »
If MOQ is 500, base kit split off isn't so bad, as you can get 99 base and 40 numpad. At 250, you're often near 120 base and 40 numpad, and base could have been 125 or 130 with numpad in it.

The base kit is still going to be large without the numpad, it's not going to reach $99 @ 500 MOQ.

Just depending on how the base kit would be changed to suit the 500 MOQ price point. It's about the kit components and what's added/removed for the sake of utilization.

There's always two sides to a coin.

The majority who buys a base kit for 140 but has 20+ keys they'll possibly never use

The minority who utilizes all keys and pays 140

Say they manage a 500 MOQ theory.

Majority buys a set at 110 (for the lack of real examples) buys all the keys that they need and will ever use

Minority who pays 110+40 who gets everything they need at the cost of an extra 40.

I would lean towards a numpad-less base if a set can manage the MOQ numbers as I side with the majority.

Keep note that kit compositions would be different for both situations.
« Last Edit: Fri, 17 April 2020, 11:25:11 by Mcnos »

Offline tominabox1

  • Posts: 254
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #162 on: Fri, 17 April 2020, 11:22:51 »
As a 40s user, a numpad-less base kit is far better for me. It would help me afford the set by quite a bit.

Offline SlurmsMacKenzie

  • Posts: 20
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #163 on: Fri, 17 April 2020, 12:52:37 »
Kono going off the rails and not even including the highlight accent ESC...Not paying for a add-on set just for one key.
Hope RaySasQuach gets creative control of this GB, otherwise i'll pass.

The Obscure kit doesn't even have the keycap that you would want. I would assume the Obscure has R2 and R3 Esc, so there is literally no R1 Blue Esc available.

Offline dvorcol

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #164 on: Fri, 17 April 2020, 18:45:13 »
EDIT: See the bar graph in a later post which uses (Numpad kits) / (TKL Mod kits) so is more representative.

Here are Numpad take rates for some previous (Mass)Drop GBs.
More
<-- this graph's take rates are artificially low because it's using (Numpad kits) / (Alpha kits).  Alphas are also used on ortho and ergo boards, but Numpads aren't.


« Last Edit: Tue, 21 April 2020, 21:42:03 by dvorcol »

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #165 on: Fri, 17 April 2020, 18:59:41 »
Do you have more GMK set data besides Jamon?

Another important thing to note about this is time. I think the trend over time is to favor smaller boards. Just look at the number of 60/65% boards going to GB compared to those there have numpads.

Offline oldcat

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #166 on: Fri, 17 April 2020, 20:01:34 »
Here are Numpad take rates for some previous (Mass)Drop GBs.

Show Image


always amazing graphics

Offline whitty

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #167 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 03:51:45 »
+1 for splitting numpad
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Offline Mcnos

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #168 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 04:19:19 »
Here are Numpad take rates for some previous (Mass)Drop GBs.

Show Image


I think a GMK graph would be in order here to be more relevant to the certain situation

Here's more than a few sets to use for referencing

GMK Minimal
GMK Apollo
GMK Dark
GMK Nautilus Nightmares
GMK Peach Blossom
GMK Yugo
GMK Analog Dreams
GMK Cafe
GMK 9009 R3

And don't forget about Bleached.

Just by looking at the numbers at a glance of final numbers, num-pad consists of 1/4 - 1/6 of the base kit estimated.
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 April 2020, 04:27:18 by Mcnos »

Offline huey

  • Posts: 78
  • Location: UK
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #169 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 04:29:43 »
Warning! Opinions that some may not like. Proceed with caution.

I dislike splitting the numpad unless you are going for a very low price/high MOQ.

This set is a community favourite and I personally contribute it's very "all inclusive" base kit as one of its strong points. If this 2nd round can be achieved at a price similar price to what Kono is running at right now (lmao btw), then it'll sell like hotcakes.

If we follow the mentality of "I don't need it, therefore it should go", then we'd all be running around buying slightly fleshed-out ANSI 60% kits. The kitting would be insane making it so damn expensive for anyone that dares not to use Standard ANSI/Tsangan. Also, if numpad goes then UK-ISO is on the chopping block.  :(

Offline dvorcol

  • Posts: 1566
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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #170 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 11:21:54 »
Do you have more GMK set data besides Jamon?

Another important thing to note about this is time. I think the trend over time is to favor smaller boards. Just look at the number of 60/65% boards going to GB compared to those there have numpads.

EDIT: See the bar graph in a later post which uses (Numpad kits) / (TKL Mod kits) so is more representative.

Here are Numpad take rates for some previous (Mass)Drop GBs.
More
Show Image
<-- this graph's take rates are artificially low because it's using (Numpad kits) / (Alpha kits).  Alphas are also used on ortho and ergo boards, but Numpads aren't.

I think a GMK graph would be in order here to be more relevant to the certain situation

Here's more than a few sets to use for referencing

GMK Minimal
GMK Apollo
GMK Dark
GMK Nautilus Nightmares
GMK Peach Blossom
GMK Yugo
GMK Analog Dreams
GMK Cafe
GMK 9009 R3

And don't forget about Bleached.

Just by looking at the numbers at a glance of final numbers, num-pad consists of 1/4 - 1/6 of the base kit estimated.


I have a ton of numbers to gather, but I'll try to have a graph in the next few days.

Sets that split everything into a larger number of smaller kits by default (Alphas, Mods, Numpad, etc. for SA, DSA, XDA, KAT/KAM) might better-reflect the market, since cost up/down is not a factor.  Here's something to ponder:


Edit: corrected bad math. Changed to TKL mod ratio rather than Alpha ratio.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 April 2020, 15:53:29 by dvorcol »

Offline tankskun

  • Posts: 5
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #171 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 11:35:33 »
Love the Shoko, such an elegant colourway. Please don't split the numpad. Also waiting for raysasquach official vendor. Not buying from Kono
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 April 2020, 11:38:09 by tankskun »

Offline oldcat

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #172 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 17:27:55 »
This is probably THE keycap groupbuy I have to join this year. Will be holding out buying from Kono (as the deadline for joining is June 12 anyway). And eagerly awaiting author's plans to move the GB forward.

Offline DERBS

  • Posts: 44
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #173 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 17:58:53 »
+1 for keeping numpad in the base

Offline Waffle0508

  • Posts: 36
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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #174 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 18:41:43 »
Another +1 for keeping the Numpad in the base kit!



Offline oldcat

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #175 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 22:54:40 »
If Ray can consider adding R3 PgUp and R4 PgDn it will be greatly appreciated.

Offline ggmoss

  • Posts: 8
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #176 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 23:36:42 »
+1 for slplitted kits.

Offline sirieous

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #177 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 00:01:30 »
+1 for splitting kits

Offline 2QT2BSTR8

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #178 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 00:18:03 »
Happy to pay for numpad, despite not needing it.

Offline belerian

  • Posts: 15
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #179 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 00:59:30 »
1 vote for splitting.

Offline calveeen

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #180 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 03:05:15 »
+ 1 for splitting

Offline flying1911

  • Posts: 192
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #181 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 04:31:39 »
+1 for splitting
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Offline Mcnos

  • Posts: 1144
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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #182 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 05:30:28 »
+ 1 Splitting

Offline heliar_mk

  • Posts: 77
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #183 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 05:38:44 »
+1 for splitting

Offline SolidCactus

  • Posts: 236
  • Location: UK
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #184 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 07:04:37 »
If Ray can consider adding R3 PgUp and R4 PgDn it will be greatly appreciated.

This please!

Offline terrad

  • Posts: 43
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #185 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 07:31:16 »
+1 for splitting, and a text + icon mod kit.

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Offline dallman5

  • Posts: 355
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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #186 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 09:19:16 »
Plz donít split
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Offline neutralstate

  • Posts: 132
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #187 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 10:21:37 »
would prefer splitting.

Offline pcire

  • Posts: 185
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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #188 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 10:22:50 »
Split it!

But more importantly, donít run it on kono

Offline Mcnos

  • Posts: 1144
    • GMK Fuyu
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #189 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 10:25:09 »
Instead of flooding this IC

How about just input your votes on this strawpoll until a better means is presented.

https://www.strawpoll.me/19814989

Edit:

This does not mean a decision will be made off of this, but a better means to obtain data.

Offline oldcat

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #190 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 13:10:54 »
Instead of flooding this IC

How about just input your votes on this strawpoll until a better means is presented.

https://www.strawpoll.me/19814989

Edit:

This does not mean a decision will be made off of this, but a better means to obtain data.

Great. Voted, thanks!

Offline greentea

  • Posts: 6
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style
« Reply #191 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 19:06:02 »
I'll just call it GMK Shoko Substream to fit the naming scheme...
Can't wait for Shoko Red, Shoko Happy Sky, Shoko Distorted, and Shoko Gold

Offline Karni

  • Posts: 47
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #192 on: Sun, 19 April 2020, 19:15:29 »
im for splitting

Offline Fidelias

  • Posts: 1
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #193 on: Mon, 20 April 2020, 16:48:30 »
This is what I got from Kono when I canceled my order:

Quote
Apologies, the designer for Shoko has been inconsistent ó when he disappeared during the original GB we had to finish it without him.
He gave us the go-ahead for Round 2 and agreed to a rough timeline, but ghosted us again and stopped updating the set.
We kept the GB moving by using the files he submitted before the lapse in communications. The kits on the page are what was quoted with GMK for this run.
Hitting stop on the current set would result in delays and losses for everyone, especially during the pandemic.

I've cancelled your Order and issued a refund.

Please let me know if you need anything else,

It sounds like they're trying to blame OP for running this without his knowledge (even if there were communication issues, still don't see how it makes it OK to take OP's designs and do a GB on their own). Also not sure what "delays and losses for everyone" means since I wouldn't expect them to have paid for an order from GMK since GB didn't close yet.

Offline oldcat

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  • Location: US
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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #194 on: Mon, 20 April 2020, 16:59:06 »
This is what I got from Kono when I canceled my order:

Quote
Apologies, the designer for Shoko has been inconsistent ó when he disappeared during the original GB we had to finish it without him.
He gave us the go-ahead for Round 2 and agreed to a rough timeline, but ghosted us again and stopped updating the set.
We kept the GB moving by using the files he submitted before the lapse in communications. The kits on the page are what was quoted with GMK for this run.
Hitting stop on the current set would result in delays and losses for everyone, especially during the pandemic.

I've cancelled your Order and issued a refund.

Please let me know if you need anything else,

It sounds like they're trying to blame OP for running this without his knowledge (even if there were communication issues, still don't see how it makes it OK to take OP's designs and do a GB on their own). Also not sure what "delays and losses for everyone" means since I wouldn't expect them to have paid for an order from GMK since GB didn't close yet.

To be fair to Kono what was described here about R1 by Kono was what I observed as well. That was the reason many people did not join R1 afaik. You can still find those comments in the R1 IC page.
Hopefully, OP can come here more often and provide more communication for R2, and I will certainly join now the real pictures came out great.
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 April 2020, 17:03:22 by oldcat »

Offline IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES

  • Posts: 1079
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #195 on: Mon, 20 April 2020, 17:09:19 »

It sounds like they're trying to blame OP for running this without his knowledge (even if there were communication issues, still don't see how it makes it OK to take OP's designs and do a GB on their own). Also not sure what "delays and losses for everyone" means since I wouldn't expect them to have paid for an order from GMK since GB didn't close yet.

Loss is with refunds with PayPal or the other pay apps? So someone (buyers, it seems) would be out the ~4% or so for fees?

Offline Slayer77

  • Posts: 255
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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #196 on: Mon, 20 April 2020, 17:10:09 »
This is what I got from Kono when I canceled my order:

Quote
Apologies, the designer for Shoko has been inconsistent ó when he disappeared during the original GB we had to finish it without him.
He gave us the go-ahead for Round 2 and agreed to a rough timeline, but ghosted us again and stopped updating the set.
We kept the GB moving by using the files he submitted before the lapse in communications. The kits on the page are what was quoted with GMK for this run.
Hitting stop on the current set would result in delays and losses for everyone, especially during the pandemic.

I've cancelled your Order and issued a refund.

Please let me know if you need anything else,

It sounds like they're trying to blame OP for running this without his knowledge (even if there were communication issues, still don't see how it makes it OK to take OP's designs and do a GB on their own). Also not sure what "delays and losses for everyone" means since I wouldn't expect them to have paid for an order from GMK since GB didn't close yet.

To be fair to Kono what was described here about R1 by Kono was what I observed as well. That was the reason many people did not join R1 afaik. You can still find those comments in the R1 IC page.
Hopefully, OP can come here more often and provide more communication for R2, and I will certainly join now the real pictures came out great.
To play devil's advocate, Kono probably invested in the renders (those renders look pretty nice) and probably couldn't wait any longer for design changes. There was probably an agreed upon timeline of some sorts.

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Offline pcire

  • Posts: 185
  • Location: SF
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #197 on: Mon, 20 April 2020, 17:12:09 »
Weíre all just speculating here. Hope OP can clarify soon
I have a build planned around Shoko. Canít wait!

Offline oldcat

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Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #198 on: Mon, 20 April 2020, 18:18:25 »
Weíre all just speculating here. Hope OP can clarify soon
I have a build planned around Shoko. Canít wait!

Really liked Shoko and hope it will happen one way or another. Certainly, I would like to support OP as a designer and creator and refrain from buying from Kono at this moment, but hopefully, more clarity can be provided and it may not be too late to bring Kono on board again by communicating with them about possible new kits.

I even want to do work on some custom case colors for Shoko for Think2020...

Still hoping for that R3 PgUp and R4 PgDn to happen....


Offline Tennstrong

  • Posts: 32
Re: [IC] GMK Shoko 2nd Style「To split or not to split numpad and ISO」
« Reply #199 on: Mon, 20 April 2020, 19:07:13 »
If numpad gets split might be more affordable to go all-in (buy all kits) with the **** kitting on kono than buy base + numpad + spacebars all separate; one of the few things that could get me to buy the kono run.