[FEEDBACK] Fjord!, a 75%-ish Keyboard

[Frugivore]

This is old please visit the IC for current details. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=116532.msg3114972#msg3114972

Now that that is out of the way let's talk about the board. The Fjord! is a 75% keyboard that well let's say omits a few less useful keys but keeps the function and arrows which I find myself using quite often. Just getting rid of keys isn't useful so I put a slide pot (sliding potentiometer) where those keys would be. Personally, I think the knob is cool and fun but is being overused so I went with something that is a bit less common (it does exist but really only in one macro pad). The board has a fairly big brass weight (Fusion says it should weigh about 500 grams). As for design, it's not too flashy not just a brick (like the NK_ boards; no offense I just don't like them). It's top-mounted (for the first board I thought gasket would be stretching my abilities). 5-degree typing angle. I will release plate files when it is actually for sale. The plan is to ship with an FR4 plate and provide plate files if one wants to have a different material.

If I missed anything or if you have questions let me know and I will be happy to answer.

Some renders from Fusion.

[Maledicted]

Looks good to me. A sliding potentiometer is a lot more useful than most of the keys that normally go there anyway. All of this talk about weights, and your renders, make it look/sound expensive though. What sort of cap sets will work? Hard to tell from the angles. 75% specific?

[Frugivore]

A sliding potentiometer is a lot more useful than most of the keys that normally go there anyway.

Yay at least one person agrees with me!

All of this talk about weights, and your renders, make it look/sound expensive though.

The cost will be hard because it will depend a lot on how many orders I get. I will likely have to price it in the 300usd range so that I can be sure to break even. But again I am far out and I really don't know so don't take this as any kind of final price

What sort of cap sets will work? Hard to tell from the angles.

Not sure what caps will fit I think I will just have to try a few. The typing angle is 5° so hopefully, that should help.

75% specific?

What do you mean by this? Sorry if I am missing something obvious.

[Maledicted]

A sliding potentiometer is a lot more useful than most of the keys that normally go there anyway.

Yay at least one person agrees with me!

I can't be the only one.

All of this talk about weights, and your renders, make it look/sound expensive though.

The cost will be hard because it will depend a lot on how many orders I get. I will likely have to price it in the 300usd range so that I can be sure to break even. But again I am far out and I really don't know so don't take this as any kind of final price

Too rich for me, unless it supported standard cap sizes and Alps/Matias switches. Even then, I usually don't spend that much on one board.

75% specific?

What do you mean by this? Sorry if I am missing something obvious.

I'm pretty sure 75% boards usually have a smaller right shift key, so you have to hunt down sets that have a 1.75u right shift, or improvise. The Miya Pro and other similar 68 key boards are smaller than 75% and support standard caps to boot.

[Frugivore]

Like I said I really don't know about price right now.

Yes, 75% of boards use a 1.75U right shift, but that's not an uncommon key it's included in most full sets. I a using an Akko set with a 75% board right now. The thing that I find hard about keycaps with a 75% board is getting the right profiles for the keys that I am removing (PgUp/down, end, etc), so that won't be a problem.

[Leslieann]

Sliding pots look awesome but they take up about 3 keys, while a dial only replaces one.
I'm not sure how many would want F-keys but no home/end or pg up/dn just to have a sliding pot as opposed to a dial. Just seems like an odd sacrifice for something that looks neat but little difference in functionality. Different strokes for different folks, however it does limit your market.

BTW, my understanding is that pots in general are not supported by Windows or QMK and worse, meaning you will need software. This could also limit the use of this feature in future versions of Windows if no longer supported.


Price...
I would be absolutely stunned if you can get this close to $300.
Not too flashy has nothing to do with cost, it's actually small details that end up destroying you on cost. It looks and sounds to me like you designed it assuming the size and supposed simplicity (and maybe volume) will keep the price down, it will not. This is not going to be cheap to make.

[Frugivore]

I have already gotten quotes for the case and in its current form, it would be ~200usd if I ordered 50 of them. And that is US manufacturing so I think I can hit 300. I don't know how much a PCB costs but it shouldn't be too much 9 (I would guess around 50 USD or less).

Personally, I don't use the keys that are being replaced and I don't know anyone that does enough to care/wouldn't prefer a slide pot. So while yes I think it climates my market I also think that the added functionality expands my market.

As for software, there is software that exists for a specific board and I am going to try to contact them if not then I don't really know atm but I will figure it out. I know some devs.

[Frugivore]

Just took a look at the license and it is 100% open source and free for everyone. Of course, since I am going to be selling something I feel it is nice to talk to them but it does say that it has no restrictions whatsoever.

https://github.com/jesusvallejo/Midi2Vol

[Leslieann]

I have already gotten quotes for the case and in its current form, it would be ~200usd if I ordered 50 of them. And that is US manufacturing so I think I can hit 300. I don't know how much a PCB costs but it shouldn't be too much 9 (I would guess around 50 USD or less).

Not sure if that includes surface finish but that can add a significant chunk as well, especially if you want more than one non standard color and jewel quality as opposed to just industrial which is what many of these shops mainly handle.

Don't forget R&D costs (prototypes, testing parts like the pot to see if you like it, etc), hardware, linear pots, and more all need to be factored in. The prototype will likely run several hundred and that's if you only need one.  Your spare $50 to cover all of that is going to disappear insanely fast.

Personally, I don't use the keys that are being replaced and I don't know anyone that does enough to care/wouldn't prefer a slide pot. So while yes I think it climates my market I also think that the added functionality expands my market.

I never doubted that, I'm saying you need to find enough other people.

[Frugivore]

I know it's going to cost a lot to develop that and tbh I started this project as me making one for me and taking a 500 loss so if I do better than that I will be happy lol.

[Frugivore]

More renders (now with a slide handle).

[Frugivore]

UPDATE

A quick-ish update on what's been going on. The OP has been updated to fit the new version a bit better and I added more info. A few days ago I found a pretty fatal flaw in the design. One of the main "functional" dimensions was off by quite a bit because for some reason I didn't check it. It's all fixed now but it has changed the board a bit. The weight is now about 300 grams lighter (this should in theory help with cost so at least there is an upside) and the board is a bit taller. It should be generally the same but I am going to delete all the old readers to avoid confusion.
Also, the "Fjord!" text is gone for now it may or may not return.

PCB progress is slow but it's coming along! I am having trouble finding footprints for things that I can actually get assembled. So that's quite a setback and I have been a bit slow to get into KiCad in the same way I love doing stuff in Fusion. I plan to just designate a weekend to do PCB but I am doing so many other things it's hard to fit in. But since my goal is to finish an IC by the end of this calendar year I think I will be fine.

I think I am going to start to 3D print some protos soon so when that happens I will post here.

Thank you for anyone who is remotely interested!

[Frugivore]

ALL CURRENT RENDERS WILL BE IN THE OP. UPDATES AND WHATNOT WILL BE REPLIES.

[Frugivore]

I expect to have 3d printed models and a plate within about a week. When that happens I will post a full IC and IC form. Its all ready to go I just want to wait till the 3d stuff comes back

[Frugivore]

This thread is now old visite the IC for details https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=116532.msg3114972#msg3114972