Thinkpad or Macbook?

[NamelessPFG]

If it was my choice: ThinkPad. X41t, X60t, X61t, X200t, X201t, W700(ds), or W701(ds) specifically.

The only thing I'm pissed about is that the X201t, for all it does right, still has the usual issue of packing a decently-fast CPU (Core i7 at 2.0 GHz or so at the top end, IIRC), but hobbling it with integrated Intel graphics. Can't I get a mid-range mobile NVIDIA GPU in there for once, preferably in an MXM slot?

Also, I generally hate trackpads. Apple 'Books since 2005 (when they started putting two-finger scroll on the last PowerBook and iBook G4s) are the exception since brushing my palms against the corners doesn't do anything and the two-finger scroll is really nice to use in OS X, but everywhere else, I really wish I had a TrackPoint. (Now if they made it so that holding down the Fn key made the TrackPoint scroll around...)

[ch_123]

I agree with EIBM on this one. I've seen keys falling off scissor switches, but usually it's the result of either the keyboard being of low quality, or end user stupidity. Often a combination of both.

The keytops on the Apple keyboards today (the Chiclet kind) are also much closer together than those of conventional keyboards,

Look quite separated from where I'm sitting.

[microsoft windows]

I'm talking about the surface your finger hits the key on. On a conventional keyboard, like the IBM Model M, the tops of the keys are more farther apart than the Apple. I've found with my experience with the "Chiclet" keyboards is I make a lot more type-O's with them.

[Brian8bit]

So you're saying you make mistakes typing on notebook keyboards because they're smaller than standard keyboard layouts? Usually somewhere in the mid to high 90s percentage range, dropping to the high 70s and low 80s on netbooks. Perfectly understandable.

[ch_123]

I did a typing test one one of those Apple chiclet keyboards, and was able to maintain 100WPM.

A poor workman always blames his tools, or so they say.

[zefrer]

Get the lenovo surely. Great hardware at competitive price. No new notebooks from apple today. New macbook airs/netbooks. They don't like to call it that.

[microsoft windows]

I did a typing test one one of those Apple chiclet keyboards, and was able to maintain 100WPM.

A poor workman always blames his tools, or so they say.

I'm not the best typer on the planet, but I'm a lot better on a conventional keyboard than one of those Chiclet things.

[keyboardlover]

I did a typing test one one of those Apple chiclet keyboards, and was able to maintain 100WPM.

[EverythingIBM]

I don't mind my HP "Island" keys. 65g so they are lighter than most.  My son hates em but he's a buckling spring Unicomp snob.  Notice the reversed priority of the FCN keys - that kinda sucks.

Show Image

Those arrow keys are horrible...

Now THIS is a proper laptop keyboard:

[TexasFlood]

Show Image

The golf clap returns, makes me smile...

hl=en_US&fs=1">

[TexasFlood]

Keyboardlover, the golf clap makes me smile...

hl=en_US&fs=1">

[Findecanor]

The Thinkpad series is the best series of laptops ever made. If I could choose between Thinkpad and any other laptop, I would choose Thinkpad.

I noticed also that the layout is the same as on the Dell, except for the Fn and Ctrl keys in the bottom left corner ... but that is no problem for those who map Caps Lock to Ctrl, as I do.

[zefrer]

EverythingIBM that looks like a T40/T41? I have a T40, one of the last models before IBM sold the thinkpad rage. Built like a friggin rock man, 7 years old and hasn't let me down once.

[instantkamera]

L

o

l

[instantkamera]

have to admit, PC laptop makers need to get their **** together. design IS important.

[elservo]

Design is absolutely vital.  I didn't really think about that until I got a Macbook.  Now, I can't believe I muddled through with Dell laptops for so many years before.  

The Macbook Air is pricey, but it's really solid.  I've seen a bunch of unboxing just to watch for any flex in the aluminum case when it's opened, and I can't see any odd movement, not even in the tiny hinges they're using.  

Thinkpads are their own breed, and the build seems like it's good quality.  It would be the only PC laptop that I'd buy, love that velvety trackpad that the Thinkpads have.

[D-EJ915]

The fact that it comes with a drive which has the preload on it is pretty nice.

[instantkamera]

Design is absolutely vital.  I didn't really think about that until I got a Macbook.  Now, I can't believe I muddled through with Dell laptops for so many years before.  

The Macbook Air is pricey, but it's really solid.  I've seen a bunch of unboxing just to watch for any flex in the aluminum case when it's opened, and I can't see any odd movement, not even in the tiny hinges they're using.  

Thinkpads are their own breed, and the build seems like it's good quality.  It would be the only PC laptop that I'd buy, love that velvety trackpad that the Thinkpads have.

yeah I have a love/hate relationship with apple. I owned a macbook and some other products and loved their simple and FUNCTIONAL designs, but politically it's just a no-go for me.

PC OEMS are ****ing clueless, the analogy I read somewhere recently was that they are "NASCAR designs" ... so ****ing tacky and ghetto. I think HP has the nicest line going ATM, and their **** is a 100% rip of apple designs.

I build my own desktops partly for this reason.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

The problem is that (in my opinion) Apple will often pick aesthetics over functionality (ventilation quality, etc.).

PC form and finish has improved massively over the past few years. Say what you want about Macs, but my Thinkpad and Dell Latitude (E-Series, not D-series) both feel well made.

[instantkamera]

I am pretty impressed with the fit and finish on my $500 HP 210HD netbook.  

I can live without the whole silver thing.

Show Image

basically the improved version of my 1035NR ... I wish I had waited before jumping on the netbook bandwagon. Styling is the same but the improvements (touchpad, keyboard, sata) would have been really nice.

[verbel]

I have an older t60 thinkpad and a 13' macbook. Over all I much prefer the thinkpad. I know allot of people don't like the boxy look of the thinkpads but I love it. OSX is ok, but I think I prefer Windows 7 to it.

[ch_123]

PC OEMS are ****ing clueless, the analogy I read somewhere recently was that they are "NASCAR designs" ... so ****ing tacky and ghetto. I think HP has the nicest line going ATM, and their **** is a 100% rip of apple designs.

HP makes nice looking PCs? Sir, please do not me throw up in your face...

[Superfluous Parentheses]

I have an older t60 thinkpad and a 13' macbook. Over all I much prefer the thinkpad. I know allot of people don't like the boxy look of the thinkpads but I love it. OSX is ok, but I think I prefer Windows 7 to it.

I think the pictures don't do the newer Thinkpads justice. Especially the X201 series looks amazing in real life. I suspect the matte black case just doesn't photograph that well.

[verbel]

I really want to get one of the new ones, but right now I cannot justify as there is really no need. I'm not sure how long I will be able to fight the urge though.

[instantkamera]

HP makes nice looking PCs? Sir, please do not me throw up in your face...

we are talking about laptops, specifically.

http://notebooks.com/2009/09/15/hp-envy-13-photos-and-specs/

[ch_123]

Whenever my T61 dies off, I'll be getting me an X201T, or whatever the equivalent is by then.

[zefrer]

The problem is that (in my opinion) Apple will often pick aesthetics over functionality (ventilation quality, etc.).

PC form and finish has improved massively over the past few years. Say what you want about Macs, but my Thinkpad and Dell Latitude (E-Series, not D-series) both feel well made.

This. FYI all macbook air models released so far have insufficient cooling. They get *very* hot and the cpu throttles down its clock speed to compensate.

Design is great and all but _the_ most important thing is function. If it can't function properly any great design is meaningless unless you just want it to sit on your coffee table and look nice.

Meanwhile many other companies offer aluminum laptops.

[ch_123]

we are talking about laptops, specifically.

http://notebooks.com/2009/09/15/hp-envy-13-photos-and-specs/

HP? Looks more like 'iP' to me...

[instantkamera]

I think HP has the nicest line going ATM, and their **** is a 100% rip of apple designs.

HP? Looks more like 'iP' to me...

exactly! now you get it...

[mike]

This. FYI all macbook air models released so far have insufficient cooling. They get *very* hot and the cpu throttles down its clock speed to compensate.

I hadn't heard that myself, and a colleague (management type) uses one as his main machine.

Of course the main function of any of the Air's is portability; if you're driving any component hard for any length of time, then you've got the wrong machine.

[ch_123]

On the flip end of the scale, I have to replace the fan in my Thinkpad. It's actually still working, but the bearings are failing and it sounds like a chainsaw when the system is under load for a long time.

Oh well, at least a new Thinkpad fan is $15 off eBay, and can be installed without having to take an angle grinder to the laptop and raping the warranty in a dozen ways...

[wap32]

On the flip end of the scale, I have to replace the fan in my Thinkpad. It's actually still working, but the bearings are failing and it sounds like a chainsaw when the system is under load for a long time.

Oh well, at least a new Thinkpad fan is $15 off eBay, and can be installed without having to take an angle grinder to the laptop and raping the warranty in a dozen ways...

Had the same problem on my T61 about 6 months ago, whenever the fan spun up, it made a racket.
Opened the fan, put a little lithium-based grease and since then it has been silent.

[ch_123]

I had that suggested to me, and I might actually try it. That said, I got the fan cheap, and it's a good idea to have a spare one in case the thing really does fail.

[MissileMike]

I love the design of the mbp, but as a programmer, the lack of home/end/pgup/pgdn keys drives me crazy.  I am selling my mbp 17" this week on ebay.

[Cirno]

Using x201 (i5 520m, 3gig, changed hdd to 160gb intel ssd) for 3 months and really disappointed with lenovo assembly quality. Next time will buy used X61 and mod it with 1400x900 screen :\

[ch_123]

X61 is also Lenovo

[microsoft windows]

I just use whatever old laptop I feel like. Out of all my laptops, my favotite's my Dell Inspiron 8500, with a P4 and 1GB of RAM and XP Professional.

[Cirno]

X61 is also Lenovo

uhm, x60 then ^^'

[ch_123]

Also Lenovo.

Hint: You'd have to go back to the X42

[wap32]

uhm, x60 then ^^'

I believe the X60 is also Lenovo, despite the IBM stickers (I could be wrong tho).

EDIT: ch_123 beat me to it...

[instantkamera]

I love the design of the mbp, but as a programmer, the lack of home/end/pgup/pgdn keys drives me crazy.  I am selling my mbp 17" this week on ebay.

arggg tell me about it... I used an apple wireless BTKB on my old macbook, spent most of my days in term using vim etc... ****, I wanted to kill myself.

[Cirno]

Also Lenovo.

Hint: You'd have to go back to the X42

Oh noes. Same with t6x? I need amd64 && may be vt-d.

[ch_123]

Yep. My T61 is a Lenovo machine.

It's hard to know. The IBM ones were definitely more classy and solid, but the Lenovo ones are still better built than most crap on the market.

[J888www]

The final tiny weeny upgrade/replacement for my laptop was an Aluminium Logo, as the standard plastic logos seems too common, can always revert back to the colourful option when my whim changes.

Rather than using Grease, it was suggested that a drop of Machine Oil (Singer Sewing machine lub) to be applied to the spindle part of the Heatsink Fan.

[vyshane]

arggg tell me about it... I used an apple wireless BTKB on my old macbook, spent most of my days in term using vim etc... ****, I wanted to kill myself.

You need home, end, page up and page down keys in Vim? What on earth for?

[instantkamera]

You need home, end, page up and page down keys in Vim? What on earth for?

moving around in insert mode? I hate having to leave modes to move around, so I have become quite accustomed to using the insert cluster and even the arrow keys. Im also a big fan of shft-ins to paste (things im not using visual block/line in the current document to copy) and I use ins to toggle insert/replace (there is in insert key on the apple compact keyboard either). I use them often enough in less/etc and on the command line in general that they are missed.

[Cirno]

moving around in insert mode?

[instantkamera]

Show Image

lol
no thanks. Next thing you know I'll be browsing the web like RMS:

For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer.  (I
also have not net connection much of the time.)  To look at page I
send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me.
It is very efficient use of my time, but it is slow in real time.

[vyshane]

moving around in insert mode? I hate having to leave modes to move around, so I have become quite accustomed to using the insert cluster and even the arrow keys. Im also a big fan of shft-ins to paste (things im not using visual block/line in the current document to copy) and I use ins to toggle insert/replace (there is in insert key on the apple compact keyboard either). I use them often enough in less/etc and on the command line in general that they are missed.

In Vim you really want to move around in normal mode. Moving around in insert mode is very inefficient. If you learn the correct way to move around in Vim, you'll be glad to know that bash has a Vi mode (set -o vi). Tools like less also support some Vi shortcuts for search and moving around.

As for shift+insert vs. ctrl+v, vs. command+v; end vs. command+right, etc., each platform have their own way of doing things. It's easier to work with the tools rather than expect them to all behave in the same way.

[instantkamera]

In Vim you really want to move around in normal mode.

No, I want to move around in the mode of my choice, thanks.

Moving around in insert mode is very inefficient.

Sometimes. Likewise with changing modes to move around.

 If you learn the correct way to move around in Vim, you'll be glad to know that bash has a Vi mode (set -o vi). Tools like less also support some Vi shortcuts for search and moving around.

The "correct" way is whatever way works for the user. And being a DAILY vim user for the past several years, I can happily say that I don't need input from a keyboard forum on that. I use the "proper" vim navigation keys when I need to move around more precisely, but more often I use searches for specific text to get precisely where I want to be. Likewise with less etc (i.e. I don't read a  man page by paging up/down and trying to skim for the specific thing Im looking for.)
Basically, _I_ like that cluster, and would like it to be there when _I_ need it.

As for shift+insert vs. ctrl+v, vs. command+v; end vs. command+right, etc., each platform have their own way of doing things. It's easier to work with the tools rather than expect them to all behave in the same way.

Which is why I no longer own a Mac...