Not really happy with cherry brown :/

[Reason]

So I bought the filco ninja with brown switch 2 weeks ago
and it felt amazing at first... but as I type more and more on it, I just can't get myself to like it

the main problem for me is that the keys feel too light and there is barely no resistance at all against my fingers... they just seem to push down too effortlessly...

I spam same keys a lot over and over again when playing games (starcraft 2)
and the lack of the resistance when pressing the key is really unsatisfying for me...
when one key is pressed repeatedly very fast, it just feels like im sliding a piece of plastic up and down.... it doesn't feel like i'm actually pressing something...

and bottoming out the keys feels a bit off too...

can anyone else recommend other type of switch for me?

[calavera]

Black switches. Highest resistance of all cherry switches, but unfortunately doesn't have that tactile bump of browns. The only way to have best of both worlds would be to get springs from black switches and transplant them into the browns but filcos are plate mounted so in order to replace springs you'll have to desolder every single switch.

So black switches is your best bet as far as resistance goes.

[BaconKnight]

Cherry blues, while not much "heavier" in keystroke than browns have a more pronounced tactile bump so maybe that's what you're looking for? Keep in mind it'll be a bit louder than browns with the click and all.

Another option is an Alps keyboard, probably white. It feels heavier and has a pronounced click, though some people think Alps are an acquired taste. Also that thing will be loud, even louder than a cherry blue.

[BaconKnight]

Black switches have the highest resistance by far but I don't know if that will solve the OP's problem. When I use my black, it's heavy feeling yeah, but I get more of a snappy "I pressed the button!" feeling using blues or white alps. The linear nature of blacks make it feel like your just pressing till forever, no real feedback. Kinda like pressing down on a super thick sponge.

[Reason]

hmm never considered alps before
where can i find one?

[The Solutor]

can anyone else recommend other type of switch for me?

 
Definitely Beige aka Ergo clears, don't waste your time and money in anything else.

[REVENGE]

I think you want normal Cherry Clears. They're higher activation force tactile, non-clicky switches with a slightly more pronounced tactile bump than Browns. Ergo Clears are Clear stems matched with the low-force springs from Blues / Browns, they probably aren't what you're looking for.

As an aside, I played SC2 on a Cherry G80-8000 with Clear switches for a long time and they felt great. On the other hand, my friend who's a Master top 10 only plays on Browns.

[The Solutor]

I think you want normal Cherry Clears. They're higher activation force tactile, non-clicky switches with a slightly more pronounced tactile bump than Browns.

 
This is exactly what I tough before trying. And I was wrong.

In the real world the stiffer spring from clears will mask the more pronounced tactile bump of clear stems.

So a clear switch will feel as a stiffer brown switch but still doesn't give a good tactile feedback.

The combination of white stem and the softer brown/blue/red spring gives a definite tactile feedback while the keys will not become uncomfortably stiff and fatiguing.

[ch_123]

Does it need to be non clicky?

[REVENGE]

This is exactly what I tough before trying. And I was wrong.

In the real world the stiffer spring from clears will mask the more pronounced tactile bump of clear stems.

So a clear switch will feel as a stiffer brown switch but still doesn't give a good tactile feedback.

The combination of white stem and the softer brown/blue/red spring gives a definite tactile feedback while the keys will not become uncomfortably stiff and fatiguing.

Well, OP seems to have a problem with low activation force, not low tactility. If I could, I would go for high activation force + high tactility, ie a Cherry Green board.

[The Solutor]

Well, OP seems to have a problem with low activation force, not low tactility.

He will certainly clarify later, but I'm sure that the two things are easily confused, especially by the newcomers to the cherry world.

Most of users will expect browns as something like blue switches w/o the click and will end with something like a linear switch with some lube problem.

Keep also in mind that more tactility means also more force to past the tactile point using the same spring.

If I could, I would go for high activation force + high tactility, ie a Cherry Green board.

You should really try a cherry clear switch. It's counterintuitive but the more stiff is the coiled spring, the less tactility you feel.

If you go to greens or grays you will get more stiffness but less tactility, to have both improved a more pronounced bump on the stem should be needed, practically you need a switch which doesn't exist

[gilgam]

ie a Cherry Green board.

Not so easy to find one brand new

The black is the best to test, then clears, i got both (clear seems to be europe only) and at the beginning i loved the black. But the more i use mechanical keyboards the more i love light switches like browns or red.

So test a black one, then try a clear one (only cherry but for50-60 euros in europe -80$ ?- plus shipping...

[scribble]

I've typed on my friend's who had a cherry clear before I even knew about mechanical keyboards... it's more like a rubber dome type of force required, but the key comes up much quicker, that's how i would explain it to you. And the click you get from it is definitely there as well. I can't imagine typing for straight hours on that thing though, I could bet that your fingers would get sore.

It was a Deck Legend cherry clear

[slueth]

for gaming brown is the way to go, or blues if u want click.. for cherry switches.  Topre isn't bad either, for starcraft buckling is tooooo heavy.  can't go quick on it.  its doable but its a drag.   There is no reason you would want it heavier in my opinion if you want fast apm.

[bhtooefr]

Wait, if clicky is OK, and you want high activation force and high tactility...

Why are we looking at Cherry at all? This is the realm of Model M buckling spring...

[HaiiYaa]

I felt the same way as you.

I would advice you to try out cherry mx blacks

[mmmty]

"Thermaltake Meka G1 is the best Cherry MX Black"  : )

[theferenc]

I would just avoid Cherry altogether, and look at buckling spring, topre, and alps clones.

[The Solutor]

I felt the same way as you.

I would advice you to try out cherry mx blacks

 
I think blacks are just the exact opposite of what the OP needs.

[False_Dmitry_II]

So try Buckling Spring, clear, ergo clear, and alps.

I'd get the model m from ebay or the classifieds, an alps from the classifieds (since this is to test/try different things, so probably a dell), then the clear from the super cheap great finds/ebay board. Then you'd have to find something to mod to get ergo clears if you wanna make that final step.

[noodles256]

grow a beard

[SecrtAgentMan]

Ripster in the next couple years?

[The Solutor]

F*** German Engineering.

 
Braun was owned by Gillette since 1967, then Gillette was bought by Procter & Gamble in 2005, so it's safe to consider it an american company.

[alaricljs]

Braun was owned by Gillette since 1967, then Gillette was bought by Procter & Gamble in 2005, so it's safe to consider it an american company.

That goes directly against what you JUST said here.   I think I'm beginning to see the light.

[The Solutor]

That goes directly against what you JUST said here.   I think I'm beginning to see the light.

 

Company acquisition aren't always done in the same way, sometimes company are left completely independent, sometimes are completely assimilated.

There's not a single way.

[Titmouse]

Hmm, I never knew that some Leica binoculars are made in Portugal. Oh, well, made in Germany or not, they are still too rich for my taste.

[Reason]

lol wow sorry guys
I started this thread last night and I fell asleep so I couldn't respond to your posts :S

I think you want normal Cherry Clears. They're higher activation force tactile, non-clicky switches with a slightly more pronounced tactile bump than Browns. Ergo Clears are Clear stems matched with the low-force springs from Blues / Browns, they probably aren't what you're looking for.

As an aside, I played SC2 on a Cherry G80-8000 with Clear switches for a long time and they felt great. On the other hand, my friend who's a Master top 10 only plays on Browns.

hmm so how do ergo clears and clears feel compared to eachother?? im not quite sure what different stems/springs feel like...
I'm currently rank 3 masters with 1700 points ... and I got there using the scissor switch keyboard on my laptop lol... I got tired of the laptop keyboard not responding quick enough and that's why I was looking for a mechanical keyboard...
Brown does make clicking / spamming effortless but it just doesn't feel satisfying for me...

Does it need to be non clicky?

it doesn't matter

Well, OP seems to have a problem with low activation force, not low tactility. If I could, I would go for high activation force + high tactility, ie a Cherry Green board.

hmm... i'm not quite sure what the difference is between the activation force and tactility...
I just want the keys to respond to my touch when I press on them unlike brown..
I really like the feel when I bottom out the browns but I usually have really light touch and when I press the buttons lightly, I just don't feel any response... and that really bugs me.. I mean I like it because the keys are recognized without jamming on the key but it also feels unsatisfying

for gaming brown is the way to go, or blues if u want click.. for cherry switches. Topre isn't bad either, for starcraft buckling is tooooo heavy. can't go quick on it. its doable but its a drag. There is no reason you would want it heavier in my opinion if you want fast apm.

Well, the keys are recognized properly without effort but I don't feel the response from the keyboard when I'm moving across the keyboard and rapidly pressing different keys very fast... and that throws me  off and I don't really have fun typing on it.. lol


SO... so far the candidates are..

-Cherry Black
-Cherry Blue (I've used cherry blue before but I want to try it again to compare with brown)
-Cherry Clear
-Cherry Ergo Clear?
-Buckling Spring
-White Alps

...the problem is I'm currently a student and I really don't have the money to actually buy the keyboards to try all the different switches out...
What will be the best way to try out all these switches?
and what keyboards have switches such as clear , ergo clear, white alps? that I can find in US?

[The Solutor]

Damn!! After the backlit keyboards we have the backlit posts.

BTW for ergo clears just read the thread I linked before

[theferenc]

Reason, where are you? No, that isn't a joke.

If you're near another geekhacker, they can probably let you try at least some of those.

I know Indiana, at least, has fairly decent geekhack coverage (near purdue, near IU, southern Indiana, near Indy). I'm pretty sure there's more than a few in California, as well.

[alaricljs]

You're not going to cheaply/easily find clear without buying a used POS off ebay.  That can be cheap tho... ergo clear is a clear switch with the spring from a brown switch, requires KB surgery.  I know nothing of alps...

As to the difference between activation and tactility.   activation is the force from the spring, tactility is the bumpiness provided by the stem.  black/red only have activation force.  blue/brown/clear have differing activation force and differing tactility.

edit: thereferenc, knew that... meant to throw in cheap/easy

[theferenc]

No, there are new clear boards. Deck, for instance, has two that I know of (frost and ice).

[qtan5370]

No even think about RED?

[bhtooefr]

Hmm, spamming with buckling spring might be a little tricky. That said, Model Ms aren't too hard to find on the used market. 1391401 is the most popular of the first-generation part numbers. eBay can get you one, if nothing else. If you need Windows keys or native USB, about $79 will get you a brand new Unicomp.

[Reason]

Reason, where are you? No, that isn't a joke.

If you're near another geekhacker, they can probably let you try at least some of those.

I know Indiana, at least, has fairly decent geekhack coverage (near purdue, near IU, southern Indiana, near Indy). I'm pretty sure there's more than a few in California, as well.

I live in Utah and I doubt that there are many other geekhackers living here lol :Cry:

Recommending ergo clears for someone's first keyboard is like saying to a Starcraft noob to sign up for the professional circuit in Korea.

Regarding your last question click the Wiki tab above and look at the WW Shopping guide - it's sorted by switch.

hmm I just read The Solutor's post and I realized that ergo clear = CRAZY MODDING D:
I think I'm too noob to do that lol

[alaricljs]

I was in SLC with my Filco browns last month.

[keyboardlover]

Even this senior member KL had to farm out his soldering.

Lolwut?

[qtan5370]

Oh, I think I still have some Cherry G80 white white post on eBay

Play SC on master level in U.S. I feel for gaming, Black or Red would be very good.

[Reason]

How are you with a soldering iron?

Even this senior member KL had to farm out his soldering.

My soldering skills are almost non-existent >_>
and the most modding I've done with anything is ... putting a computer together and apart and that's not even modding

[theferenc]

Hmmm...I can't help much with Utah. I will have some Model Ms for sale in the near future, though. There are several on eBay for under $35, shipped, but I don't know if they come with cords or not, or what condition they actually are.

I usually don't look at the nicer ones, since I prefer to get them cheap and refurbish them myself.

[Reason]

Is there something like testing out different key switches?
My parents already think I'm crazy because I spent around $150 on a keyboard and
if I buy few more keyboards that cost around $100... I don't think they will much approve >_>

[Reason]

No even think about RED?

 
I just heard from someone that Red switches feel really realllly light.. even more than blue or brown
so I'm kind of hesitant to try it out.. and they cost a ton too

[alaricljs]

It takes quite some time but there is the good Sir's switch try board/bag/numpad who knows what else is being shipped around...

link 1
home base

[The Solutor]

Recommending ergo clears for someone's first keyboard is like saying to a Starcraft noob to sign up for the professional circuit in Korea.

 
I think this quote can be nominated for the ripster's top stupid sentence of the year.


1# try one of them, and not just a single key as you did.

2# keep saying the opposite of what I'm saying just for the lulz, is usually completely unhelpful for any newcomer that are usually unaware of your bias.

3# ergo clears are surely the less traumatic jump from RD to Cherry, because the tactility is close enough.

[theferenc]

Reds are really light. A lot of people that like them, like them specifically for that reason, as a matter of fact.

Buckling springs are not light. They are heavy. And awesome. Awesomely heavy. And awesome. I type on them all day long, 8-10 hours a day, nearly every day, and my hands don't get tired. The only time I'm not using them is when I'm using my HHKB, which is also awesome. But expensive. Awesomely expensive.

[The Solutor]

Trying to tell a noob to resolder and swap hammers/springs in his first mechanical keyboard is like telling Paris Hilton to do Geekhack's Vbulletin 5.0 theme.

 
Not all keyboard are Backlit and hard to mod like mine.

If he is not interested in backlight a cheap brown cherry or any other pcb mounted keyboard requires not more than an our of work and zero tools other than a screwdriver and a scissor.

And you are well aware of this.

[The Solutor]

You didn't click on my Law Of The Instrument link did you?

Looks like a recursive law, you use it in every occasion, no matter what argument is discussed.

Isn't it ?

As a clinical psychologist I see this Maslow phenomenon daily on Internet Forums.

With 37000 messages on a single forum, is statistically very easy to found your own posts. So I can understand what happen...

[redpill]

I'm sure The Keyboard Company appreciates your concern.

[ch_123]

Well, OP seems to have a problem with low activation force, not low tactility. If I could, I would go for high activation force + high tactility, ie a Cherry Green board.

 
Excellent.

Wait, how many keyboards use the Green switch over the entire keyboard?

Funny how braindead Cherry fanboydom compels people to recommend non existent keyboards, or random mixtures of rare Cherry switches rather than just go for a buckling spring or an Alps.

[The Solutor]

Funny how braindead Cherry fanboydom compels people to recommend non existent keyboards, or random mixtures of rare Cherry switches rather than just go for a buckling spring or an Alps.

 
You switched in ripster mode ?

Have you ever touched an ergo clear ?

[ch_123]

You switched in ripster mode ?

Have you ever touched an ergo clear ?

No, I was a bit too busy to gather the appropriate parts.