So I was forced to change keyboards...

[SteaminWaffle]

So guys, my trusty Logitech K120 went dead somehow. I don't really know what happened, but it just stopped working 2 or 3 weeks ago.

In the meantime, since I needed a new one, I decided to finally experiment with some mech keyboards.

First, I ordered a tenkeyless MX blue filco... it felt unreliable and shaky. It was barely usable for typing. So I sold it to a friend for 45€. Then I got a tenkeyless MX brown version. Same problem. The same friend bought that one from me for 30€. In fact, on the brown model, one of the keys was actually DOA. It simply didn't work.

I was so underwhelmed by these models, it really got me thinking if mech keyboards are nothing but over hyped gimmicks. The thing is, I still needed a new keyboard after being so thoroughly disappointed in the models I mentioned.

In the end, I just fell back to Logitech again and their G19 model. Unsurprisingly, being familiar with Logies for a long time, I found that the tactile feed on this new G19 is so spot on and natural, I find myself wondering if I'll ever change keyboards again.

Overall, I found the filcos unreliable and the keys were in fact somewhat sticky, which is very odd especially on the blue one. They felt more fragile and shaky than I could ever imagine, the keys felt too unreliable for typing as if they wore out really fast, so now I'm forced to look at them with distrust.

Remember, this is nothing but MY OWN experience. I was very disappointed.

[daerid]

I find this very difficult to believe. I've been through 4 or 5 Filcos and every single one has been of the utmost highest quality. Most other Filco users on this forum would agree.

You sure you're not a Logitech Rep?

[Findecanor]

Yes, mechanicals are hyped to the roof right now, and of course they are an acquired taste, just like everything else.

[blert]

Yeah, looking at his posts since joining, he's either a Logitech rep, a crank/troll, or a troll/crank.

Edit:
On the other hand, I realize I'm typing on my 'pizza break' keyboard at the moment -- a 10-year (probably $10 USD) old Memorex 2750.
This keyboard is actually better than a couple of new more expensive ones I've tried to replace it with.
The last one I returned was the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard.  A lovely board, really, but I realized I don't like 'laptop-style' keyboards,
which that was.

[SteaminWaffle]

I find this very difficult to believe. I've been through 4 or 5 Filcos and every single one has been of the utmost highest quality. Most other Filco users on this forum would agree.

You sure you're not a Logitech Rep?

Like I said, the two models I tried, simply didn't feel at all natural to me. And the fact that the brown model came with a dead key, simply turned me off. It had never happened to me on ANY keyboard.

I'm not saying Filco is not good, I'm sure they are, but the 2 models I got were so underwhelming and unnatural, I simply didn't feel like I was using quality products.

On the G19 the typing felt 100% natural to me, so I don't know. Maybe I got unlucky.

[magictoaster]

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 27901[/ATTACH]

[SBI]

Maybe you should also take off your ovenmits when you sit down to type.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

I am new to mechanical switches myself, and though I would say that moving from a rubber dome keyboard to a mechanical one takes some getting used to, I would never characterize mechanical switches as being "unusable" or "shaky". Filco, more so than Logitech, are well known for making extremely high quality keyboards. It sounds as though you were/are new to mechanical switches, tried two keyboards, and gave up without giving either a fair chance. I would encourage you to persevere and give mechs another shot. Browns are certainly a good place to start if you are new to mechanical switches. The payoff for learning to type on a mechanical board is a more ergonomic, tactile typing experience with key presses that require less force, and a keyboard that will far outlast any rubber dome equivalent.

[peda]

I want to be OP friend as well.

Filco's en masse for 30 euro! Hell yeah :-)

[Mazora]

Maybe you lack the motivation to find the perfect keyboard. Members here are dargn motivated. You only tried twice ... and both the times the same keyboard !

I know its alot of money, but perfection is very difficult to attain. You've experienced blues and hated them but then you try brown ? You should have go Topre.

Topre realforce are amazing.

What do you mean by unreliable ? Shaky ? I felt the Choc Mini had shaky keys too and I was unsatisfied...filco was less shaky.

Topre are way less shaky compared to Filco... more quality in my opinion. I'm glad you found something you like though, you can ignore my post

[demik]

Topre realforce are amazing.

really? i found them to be underwhelming. i mean, they're not bad keyboards, but the way they are spoken of so highly made me expect so much more from them.

[Quarzac]

This makes me sad. Why in the world would you sell those Filcos for that little? Especially considering the initial investment, you're recouping so much less.

[Mazora]

Really !

Look at the keys... dye sub.
Then go back at Filco and look at the stock keys...
Now back to RealForce: its the god of rubberdomes, which seems to be liked by OP !

[Wihl]

This forum is so easy to troll, it's a bit scary.

[pyro]

Maybe you lack the motivation to find the perfect keyboard. Members here are dargn motivated. You only tried twice ... and both the times the same keyboard !

I know its alot of money, but perfection is very difficult to attain. You've experienced blues and hated them but then you try brown ? You should have go Topre.

Topre realforce are amazing.

I laughed so hard at this.

[herfalerf]

Op is obvious shill.   Why would anyone sell a defective product and take a loss instead of returning it?

[Mazora]

its called /ragequit !

[slueth]

This guy is a huge troll, he had a post reviewing a Logitech. Then he talks about how he doesn't like mechanical. "I ordered a tenkeyless MX blue filco... it felt unreliable and shaky. It was barely usable for typing.  "So guys, my trusty Logitech K120 went dead somehow." GTFO

[daerid]

On a forum dedicated to mechanical keyboards... yeeaaahhh....

[enthusia]

I feel sorry for you, if your product was defective you should have returned it. If you love typing on mushy keys, that's great. I know I can never go back.

[Pretendo]

OP: Try a different brand maybe.  Is every rubber dome you've tried exactly equal to your Logitech?


I sympathize with the dead key issue though.  My SysRq has been broken for, like, forever.  It also turned green and moved to the front of the key.  Is that the one you were having issues with?

[Gin]

What a joke.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?19415-Why-the-Logitech-Keyboard-K120-is-the-best-I-ve-ever-tried-and-better-than-yours.

He's a Logitech rep.

[pitashen]

Is he here just to troll? Bet he enjoys all the negative responses as well.

[Pretendo]

What a joke.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?19415-Why-the-Logitech-Keyboard-K120-is-the-best-I-ve-ever-tried-and-better-than-yours.

He's a Logitech rep.

I think an actual rep would be a bit more subtle?

On a side note, my Best Buy brand mouse cures all disease within any person who touches it.

[Gin]

I think an actual rep would be a bit more subtle?

On a side note, my Best Buy brand mouse cures all disease within any person who touches it.

Not the bad ones.

[HeavyArms]

This forum is so easy to troll, it's a bit scary.

This.

[Tony]

From time to time, such thread is good for geekhack forum. It is fun to read, full of debates, and got nice sexy pictures.

Some similar threads
- I think you guys here are just gullible idiots so easy to part with your money
- Is mechanical keyboard over hyped? Filco and other company are too rich and set the price too high.

Personally I think the topic starter are lucky, he doesn't have to buy so much keyboards like us keyboard collectors.

Whether you think mechanical keyboards are good or not good for you, you are right.

[REVENGE]

"It's like the brand itself makes a crappy keyboard turn into a great one."
lol... This one will come in handy!

[Rafen]

I have a HHKB pro 2 and it's amazing. I had a couple mechanical keyboards, one with blues and the other with browns. Then I decided to try a Topre switch and I will never go back to a "normal" rubber dome. With that being said,  I would never say that a mechanical keyboard is "unreliable" or "sticky" when typing on. I just didn't like the feel of the switches that I tried.  This might be the same for you. So I would say that you should try a Topre or another type of mechanical switch and I guarantee that you never go back to a "normal" rubber dome again.

[Exoverture]

I hate how everyone jumps on this guy for having a different opinion, it's ridiculous.

I've had a mechanical keyboard for about two years now. Typing on browns, tried blues, and topres.

What this guy says is true for some people. The quality of Filcos are nice, for mechanical keyboards. They DO feel cheap though with their thin plastic keycaps compared to a solid rubber dome (even though it is cheaper, technically speaking). The friction that these keyboards have feel extremely cheap and odd at times, which I still find after 2 years of typing on them. Sometimes I can't even type properly on the mechs even after such long use, with their high profile keys and odd feel at times.

I'm typing on my MacBook's keyboard right now... and honestly somedays I prefer this much more to my browns which are full of seemingly cheap friction. I got PBT caps on them though, so they somewhat feel better.

EDIT: Topre's felt much better and smooth (not cheap plastic on plastic feel), but it felt 90% like my other rubber domes.

[REVENGE]

I hate how everyone jumps on this guy for having a different opinion, it's ridiculous.

I've had a mechanical keyboard for about two years now. Typing on browns, tried blues, and topres.

What this guy says is true for some people. The quality of Filcos are nice, for mechanical keyboards. They DO feel cheap though with their thin plastic keycaps compared to a solid rubber dome (even though it is cheaper, technically speaking). The friction that these keyboards have feel extremely cheap and odd at times, which I still find after 2 years of typing on them. Sometimes I can't even type properly on the mechs even after such long use, with their high profile keys and odd feel at times.

I'm typing on my MacBook's keyboard right now... and honestly somedays I prefer this much more to my browns which are full of seemingly cheap friction. I got PBT caps on them though, so they somewhat feel better.

:D:D Have you read what this guy writes in his posts? Hilarious!

[pitashen]

I hate how everyone jumps on this guy for having a different opinion, it's ridiculous.

I've had a mechanical keyboard for about two years now. Typing on browns, tried blues, and topres.

What this guy says is true for some people. The quality of Filcos are nice, for mechanical keyboards. They DO feel cheap though with their thin plastic keycaps compared to a solid rubber dome (even though it is cheaper, technically speaking). The friction that these keyboards have feel extremely cheap and odd at times, which I still find after 2 years of typing on them. Sometimes I can't even type properly on the mechs even after such long use, with their high profile keys and odd feel at times.

I'm typing on my MacBook's keyboard right now... and honestly somedays I prefer this much more to my browns which are full of seemingly cheap friction. I got PBT caps on them though, so they somewhat feel better.

Na, it has to do with how he presenting his different opinions. Look, there are lots of geekhackers here know that not ALL domes are bad to the touch. OP is looking for debates

[Lanx]

some ppl just don't care what they have, and that is FINE!, i mean driving a Honda civic, i really doubt i'd care driving a Luxury car, not cuz i'm a putz, but cuz i wouldn't appreciate it and wouldn't care. I personally feel i get the same level of comfort from jeans i find at various stores (banana republic/gap/American Eagle) versus $200 designer jeans, it doesn't mean I don't know fashion, I'm actually more fashion forward (just colorblind) than all the guys I know and my fiance' knows, in fact many wives go "why can't you dress up like Lanx?" I mean is a red dress shirt that difficult to pull off? Again it's all subjective, maybe OP REALLY loves cheap rubber domes, maybe he/she really should check out Topres. (plus i doubt Logitech has to stoop so low to hire a third rate troll, lol, he's just a bad poster)

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

I hate how everyone jumps on this guy for having a different opinion, it's ridiculous.

Exoverture,

I agree it doesn't accomplish much by responding to (alleged) trolling with more trolling. That being said, if you look at OP's other thread, you can see he's posted many of the same opinions before. An argument could be made that he was "asking for it" this time. In fairness, Geek Hack is a website for fans of mechanical keyboards. Posting a thread like this is a bit like being invited over to someone's house and then chastising the host for their decorating tastes: it's poor form.

[Bilbin]

G19 tactile?!?

[Oqsy]

OP is only involved in 2 threads, both Logitech praise threads.  That's fine, but his statements should be read with that in mind.

Also, Ripster is probably pretty bored by now. Perhaps he needed some lulz. We all need lulz now and then.

[Saturn]

In fairness, Geek Hack is a website for fans of mechanical keyboards.

It is?  I thought it was a Keyboard Enthusiast forum.  Not a Mechanical Keyboard Enthusiast forum.  If choice of switch is considered a personal matter, which it is (it would hardly be considered proper for a fan of cherry blues to say that all topre fans are idiots), then rubber dome should be considered one possible option.

Seems like this is how forums work now: someone gets on the forum, expresses an unpopular opinion, everyone immediately says "i detect a troll" or "don't feed the trolls" or "OP must be trolling".  Seriously, is that all we've got at this point?  Either someone agrees with our own dogmatic point of view or they're trolling?  Is there no alternative, such as, perhaps the fact that they simply have an opinion that differs dramatically from our own?  Calling "troll" on someone who is being sincere doesn't make you witty or insightful; it just means you're assuming bad faith on their part.  That makes you kinda rude.

To be fair, I despise logitech keyboards and can't imagine a Filco ever being "shaky", but still, these responses... this **** is ridiculous.  Reminds me of why I barely bother with forums.  I miss the Usenet days.

[iindigo]

It may very well just be this guy's opinion, but the feel and tone of the posts are enough to make me feel suspicious.

In the case that he really IS a Logitech rep, I think Logitech should give mechanical keyboards a shot themselves. The results could be interesting. The company obviously isn't above charging high prices for keyboards, so a cherry switch or topre model would fit right in; but then again, I doubt the profit margins on mech boards are as high as rubber dome models. Perhaps that's what's keeping them from entering that market.

[daerid]

...I doubt the profit margins on mech boards are as high as rubber dome models. Perhaps that's what's keeping them from entering that market.

I can guarantee that's exactly what it is. Let's say that it costs, in bulk, $0.40 for a switch (just pullin that number out of my ass here). For 104 of them that's $41.60 just for the switches themselves. Factor in the cost of the PCB, the case, the logic board, the usb cable, that profit margin drops dramatically.

Whereas Logitech can put together and mass product a rubber dome board like the Illuminated Keyboard for probably south of $20 a unit (and that's being generous), and then turn around and sell that for $79.99. Don't even get me started on the $200 G19 (which is still a Rubber Dome, and by definition cheaper to mass produce than any mechanical board).

[skwan]

At least his other post was more subtle, this one barely makes sense, why would you sell the filcos for so little, and if they are defective, at least send it back or something, or at least post here to ask how to fix it or something why wait til after you have sold them... And i think a few people are recently banned... the timing is suspicious as well...

But in the off chance that he is not a troll,

OP: i would recommend the topre boards, and since you just "threw away" two filco board, i suspect price shouldn't be an issue, and that is really the number 1 reason most people havn't tried topre.  On a side note, i am curious, what do you use the keyboards for, i can understand that most people may not really care for the difference between RD and mech if they don't have long sessions of typing, but your fingers feels the difference between a good keyboard and a bad keyboard after 2-3 hours of typing.  So i was wondering the shaky characteristic you mentioned, was it just based on initial impression (maybe picking the keyboard up and shaking it, or through moving it around), or was it after some prolong use, and possibly give more details, and also on how it compares to logitec, cuz frankly ur claim is hard to believe given my understanding of the definition of the word shaky...

[Saberfang]

I think OP should go for more mechanical keyboards because he still didn't sell me one for 45€

Seriously maybe I would have tried to belive him if he didn't came out with those silly resale price^^

[mich]

Isn't it obvious what this guy is trying to do?

http://www.google.com/search?q=logitech+k120+vs+mechanical


And isn't it weird that his K120 died after just 2 months and he couldn't simply replace it under warranty?

[iMav]

OP, explain "unreliable and shaky".  

Who did you purchase these two Filcos from initially?

[magictoaster]

OP, explain "unreliable and shaky".  

Who did you purchase these two Filcos from initially?

That will be interesting ... :smile:

[Mayor Winters]

Yeah, Id like to know where those filcos came from. If you had a dead key, just RMA it.

And I cant believe you didnt find them "natural", as the mech feeling is the most natural feeling a keyboard can give to you. All my friends who have tried a mech keyboard, the realize that mech keyboards are great. And most of them the only thing they knew before was "sum1 told me that mech keyboard are noisy and old crap"

And also agree with #2 and Filco owners, I have a brown one.

Also, I am the one who can talk about vintage keyboards, since I have a bunch of them, the only one new is the Filco.

[Blaec]

Good point OP.

I would also like to share my OWN experience with a logitech keyboard.

This was the Cordless Desktop Wave. It uses rubber dome technology and over time the domes matured, just like wine. Eventually after 2 years of heavy gaming each key had its own unique and individual feel, just like a Topre variable but better and natural. This made for a delightful and tactile typing experience.

Another aspect of this board was its amazing integral wrist rest, which had specially designed holes to collect buildup and, over time become more and more comfortable.

The best feature was the wireless function which enabled me to comfortably type up to 1 metre from my computer (providing nothing thicker than a piece of paper was blocking the reciever). I used this feature happily multiple times.
The wireless functionality also halted keyboard functionality whenever playing for more than a couple of hours by intelligently draining the batteries. This allowed me to go outside and enjoy the world.

You will notice that my Filco has none of these features.

[Mazora]

Good point OP.

I would also like to share my OWN experience with a logitech keyboard.

This was the Cordless Desktop Wave. It uses rubber dome technology and over time the domes matured, just like wine. Eventually after 2 years of heavy gaming each key had its own unique and individual feel, just like a Topre variable but better and natural. This made for a delightful and tactile typing experience.

Another aspect of this board was its amazing integral wrist rest, which had specially designed holes to collect buildup and, over time become more and more comfortable.

The best feature was the wireless function which enabled me to comfortably type up to 1 metre from my computer (providing nothing thicker than a piece of paper was blocking the reciever). I used this feature happily multiple times.
The wireless functionality also halted keyboard functionality whenever playing for more than a couple of hours by intelligently draining the batteries. This allowed me to go outside and enjoy the world.

You will notice that my Filco has none of these features.

+1

[pitashen]

Good point OP.

I would also like to share my OWN experience with a logitech keyboard.

This was the Cordless Desktop Wave. It uses rubber dome technology and over time the domes matured, just like wine. Eventually after 2 years of heavy gaming each key had its own unique and individual feel, just like a Topre variable but better and natural. This made for a delightful and tactile typing experience.

Another aspect of this board was its amazing integral wrist rest, which had specially designed holes to collect buildup and, over time become more and more comfortable.

The best feature was the wireless function which enabled me to comfortably type up to 1 metre from my computer (providing nothing thicker than a piece of paper was blocking the reciever). I used this feature happily multiple times.
The wireless functionality also halted keyboard functionality whenever playing for more than a couple of hours by intelligently draining the batteries. This allowed me to go outside and enjoy the world.

You will notice that my Filco has none of these features.

*like*

[Lanx]

wow you really can't go to most forums without being Ripstered huh?
http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/1133603-if-you-like-logitechs-dont-post.html

so you know how Ripster spends every other post on GH saying
"unlike those OCN mods"
or
"Well at least GH wiki is correct unlike OCN..."
or
"Yea just a bunch of SC2 Teens over at OCN"
or
"bunch of Facists at Deskthority"
or
"it's just nickels to Deskthority"
or
"banned from Deskthority again, don't know why"

now that he's banned from GH, he's starting his usual antics on other forums.

[pitashen]

wow you really can't go to most forums without being Ripstered huh?
http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/1133603-if-you-like-logitechs-dont-post.html

so you know how Ripster spends every other post on GH saying
"unlike those OCN mods"
or
"Well at least GH wiki is correct unlike OCN..."
or
"Yea just a bunch of SC2 Teens over at OCN"
or
"bunch of Facists at Deskthority"
or
"it's just nickels to Deskthority"
or
"banned from Deskthority again, don't know why"

now that he's banned from GH, he's starting his usual antics on other forums.

Ripster got banned from GH? since when!? lol