Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 675720 times)

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Online kurplop

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2250 on: Thu, 02 May 2013, 15:50:08 »
... and I noticed that some people have GUI keys ... Can someone explain their function, or is it one of those "If you have to ask you don't need to know"?

The GUI keys are "windows" keys on Windows, and "command" keys on Macs - and "GUI" keys in the USB spec :-)
Ah! Thanks for enlightening me.

Offline listboss

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2251 on: Thu, 02 May 2013, 18:34:08 »
is anyone working on modding the pcb to move the thumb cluster closer?
I have been trying to accustom myself to the current size but it is proving to be difficult :( (and I have big hands!!!)
It seems modifying the Kicad files posted on Ergodox.org can be a good start but I do not have any experience with PCB design.

I know this means changing the case layers but I can help with the bill to prototype a PCB and also print the layers since I have access to a 3D printer.


Offline bearcat

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2252 on: Thu, 02 May 2013, 18:48:55 »
listboss: If you're going to move the thumb cluster closer & have a 3d printer, i recommend just printing the case directly & hand-wiring a version first to make sure you like where the keys are.  It doesn't take that long.

BTW, thanks to everyone for their great work on this keyboard & making the kit a reality; I love the ergodox and have really enjoyed building it.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2253 on: Fri, 03 May 2013, 10:34:55 »
It seems modifying the Kicad files posted on Ergodox.org can be a good start but I do not have any experience with PCB design.
I have had lots of ideas of using the existing PCB, cut it here and there and place switches in new locations... I wrote them down, but have edited them away because nobody cares anyway.

Anyway, if you do edit the layout for a new run of keyboards (ErgoDox 2.0), I have a few suggestions:
* Please fix the solder hole positions for the outermost columns. There was supposed to be the option of 1-unit keys here, but switches will not fit because the solder holes are wrong.
* Don't just shift the position of the thumb clusters. Rotate them a bit also.
* Add support for 12 shift keys in outer/bottom corners like on the Maltron.
* If I had designed the keyboard, I would have offset the columns a bit more, especially the pinky columns.
* If possible, place all traces between main keyboard half and corresponding thumb cluster together ... with two parallel rows of soldering holes. So that if someone wants to cut away the thumb cluster and place it at an angle, he could reconnect the traces with a ribbon cable.
* Third 12 thumb key in each thumb cluster next to the others.
* Option of using a 12 key for the lowermost vertical index finger keys. You don't have to add switch positions, just avoid placing a bolt hole that would be in the way for stabilisers.
* Make the switch mounting plates 1.5 mm thick, please. Not thicker. If you have a PCB, then they don't need to be thicker -- it is only there to keep the switches from twisting.
* Peer review of the blueprints, to catch bugs like we had with with stabilisers and one-unit keys, ...
* Support for PCB-mounted Cherry stabilizers. (There should be support for them, but the PCBs don't have them... and you can't drill the holes because there are two leads is in the way. Moving them would not be a problem.)
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 May 2013, 10:00:28 by Findecanor »
"Normal is the greatest enemy in regard to creating the new. To get around this you have to understand normal not as reality but as just a construct." -- Alan Kay
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2254 on: Fri, 03 May 2013, 17:29:33 »
I modified a couple of layers in Litster's acrylic case design for  1-unit keys in the outermost columns.
The attached zip file contains only the layers that I have modified, and with different file names, so it should be safe to merge this archive into the same directory tree as the other files.

As always, I take not responsibility for correctness or anything else. Use on your own risk! :)

However, the PCB design has bugs in it that make it necessary to either drill in the PCBs somewhat or to bend some switch pins in weird angles to make the switches fit in the 1U positions.
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 May 2013, 18:23:40 by Findecanor »
"Normal is the greatest enemy in regard to creating the new. To get around this you have to understand normal not as reality but as just a construct." -- Alan Kay
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline Dreyer

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2255 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 11:00:19 »
Anyone knows how to recompile the source code? At the moment once that I run the "make" command and the .eep and .hex file are created i can't make any further changes, meaning that each time I invoke the "make" command again nothing happens. Hope that I was clear enough.

Offline sordna

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2256 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 12:50:57 »
I had a similar problem and couldn't "make clean". However if you put a ".gitignore" file in the src directory with these contents:
*.eep
*.elf
*.hex
*.map
*.o
*.o.dep

then you should be able to do "make clean" and "make"
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline listboss

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2257 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 16:15:16 »
@bearcat: Thanks for the tip, I also love the keyboard but the thumb clusters need to be modified (at least for my hands)

Anyway, if you do edit the layout for a new run of keyboards (ErgoDox 2.0), I have a few suggestions:
I do not have expertise to modify and run an ErgoDox 2.0 but some of your ideas are really intriguing.
However as I said, I will help as much as I can to at least have a new thumb cluster layout.

I am downloading your stuff now...

Offline Dreyer

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2258 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 16:41:09 »
I had a similar problem and couldn't "make clean". However if you put a ".gitignore" file in the src directory with these contents:
*.eep
*.elf
*.hex
*.map
*.o
*.o.dep

then you should be able to do "make clean" and "make"

Well, I created a .gitignore file in the scr directory and try to do a "make clean". Here is the result:

git clean -dXf  # remove ignored files and directories
fatal: Not a git repository (or any parent up to mount point /home)
Stopping at filesystem boundary (GIT_DISCOVERY_ACROSS_FILESYSTEM not set).
make: *** [clean] Error 128

I am only using Linux for a couple of months ago so i have no idea what is going wrong...

Offline sordna

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2259 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 22:11:02 »
You are lacking a .git subdirectory in the parent directory of src ... you are probably working off the firmware from massdrop site. You need to do this:

git clone git://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware.git

to download the firmware properly from github. Then edit src/makefile and change:
git clean -dX
to:
git clean -dXf

Then make and "make clean" will work.
Any firmware you download from massdrop's generator, merge into your git clone directory, so you always have the other bits in place. Actually massdrop's generator only changes one or two files when you generate a custom layout, so you can just copy them over.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline wasabah

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2260 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 04:34:40 »
I have a weird problem: I cannot compile on my PC.
I always get the error message "Interrupt/Exception caught <code = 0x00000fd, addr = 0x4217b3>"
It's not the code, compiles fine on my laptop. Same environment (W8 64bit) with WinAVR.
Any ideas?
ErgoDox Classic | Logitech G400 | Logitech Marble | Logitech M570 | Logitech M235 | Logitech M305

Offline Moosecraft

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2261 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 04:36:46 »
Does anyone play starcraft 2 with an ergodox?
I think it would be quite nice if you could have ctrl on your thumb instead of pinky when playing.
I am bigfatmc over at other places!

Offline Dreyer

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2262 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 06:42:19 »
You are lacking a .git subdirectory in the parent directory of src ... you are probably working off the firmware from massdrop site. You need to do this:

git clone git://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware.git

to download the firmware properly from github. Then edit src/makefile and change:
git clean -dX
to:
git clean -dXf

Then make and "make clean" will work.
Any firmware you download from massdrop's generator, merge into your git clone directory, so you always have the other bits in place. Actually massdrop's generator only changes one or two files when you generate a custom layout, so you can just copy them over.

Works like a charm. Thank you

Offline Jagriff

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2263 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 10:26:11 »
Does anyone play starcraft 2 with an ergodox?
I think it would be quite nice if you could have ctrl on your thumb instead of pinky when playing.
I plan on doing so.

An ErgoDox implementation of theCore would be very comfortable and efficient. I currently use theCore now on a regular keyboard (low masters Terran) and the ErgoDox will fix every problem I have with the layout.

Offline daerid

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2264 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 14:38:17 »
That is one hell of an interesting link, jagriff, thanks!

RealForce 87UB55 | CODE Clears 104 | CODE Clears 87 | Infinity w/ Clears | Unicomp Ultra Classic
Previous boards: RealForce 45g 87UB | HHKB 2 PRO | Leopold FC660C | Filco MJ2 87 (Browns and Blacks) | CM QFR (Blues and Reds) | Filco MJ2  Linear-R | Poker (Reds, Browns, Blacks, Ergo Clears) | Dell AT101W | Matias TP3
Other: G403 | G Pro | Rival 700 | Castor | G502 | G602 | G600 | MX Master | Zowie EC1 CL  | Sensei | IE 3.0 | Kinzu 2 | Perf MX | Imperator | G500 | Apple Magic Mouse

I write code for Stack Overflow.

Offline ic07

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2265 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 14:52:59 »
I have a weird problem: I cannot compile on my PC.
I always get the error message "Interrupt/Exception caught <code = 0x00000fd, addr = 0x4217b3>"
It's not the code, compiles fine on my laptop. Same environment (W8 64bit) with WinAVR.
Any ideas?

That is weird.  Aside from the obvious things (rebooting, reinstalling WinAVR, switching to linux, checking the WinAVR version numbers, ...) I really dunno... :/ .  Interesting that it would work on one and not the other.

Offline Moosecraft

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2266 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 14:54:18 »
Ye because I am very slow pressing keys with my thumb compared to my pinky I  would think it would suit a lot of people pretty nicely.
I am bigfatmc over at other places!

Offline bisl

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2267 on: Mon, 06 May 2013, 11:41:24 »
I plan on doing so.

An ErgoDox implementation of theCore would be very comfortable and efficient. I currently use theCore now on a regular keyboard (low masters Terran) and the ErgoDox will fix every problem I have with the layout.

I do this! In fact, having used this layout for a long time, it was the biggest reason I was excited for the ergodox. I'm lefty, so I put Alt/Shift/Ctrl along the bottom of my right thumb cluster, and the matrix layout works like a charm. One thing I found a little difficult to adjust to in switching from staggered-row layout to ergodox layout is that the staggered-row layout has shift positioned above the ctrl key, whereas the ergodox has them side by side (unless you made a custom case and used the 80-key layout, in which case I'm envious). In practice my brain gets a little confused and I end up using the wrong modifier when I want to snap to a camera or add to a group. But, in general, I think it'll turn out great.

Also, this might be considered TheCore heresy, but I made some modifications that I'm really proud of that have helped my ability to micro many groups together--I moved the macro control groups up a row, along with the keys for upgrades, while keeping unit control groups and unit abilities closer to the bottom. Also, I collected things closer together, although I don't have ergonomics research to prove greater efficiency or anything. But, coincidentally, I made an explanatory image to explain this to a friend of mine last night: http://i.imgur.com/yasZvHa.png

Online kurplop

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2268 on: Mon, 06 May 2013, 16:03:36 »
I have been toying with the idea of either bending my second set of ErgoDox pcb's to curve down at the thumb clusters or cutting the thumb clusters from the rest and soldering jumpers to reconnect the circuits in a new position. What kind of trouble should I anticipate? 

I can pretty easily bend them down about 1/2"out of plane at the cluster tip. Will that have an affect on the integrity of the pcb?
 
If I cut the pcb, can I just trace the conductor back to the nearest soldering points and run jumpers to reconnect? Would I need to insulate the circuit boards at the cut line? If so with what?
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 May 2013, 15:49:20 by kurplop »

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2269 on: Mon, 06 May 2013, 16:48:46 »
I have been toying with the idea of either bending my second set of ErgoDox pcb's to curve down at the thumb clusters or cutting the thumb clusters from the rest and soldering jumpers to reconnect the circuits in a new position. What kind of trouble should I anticipate?
I have also been toying with ideas for mods, but none that required breaking any trace on the PCB.
The first is moving the big thumb keys down a step and placing a new switch where the PCB now has a bolt hole. I would only need to cut away some in-between the hole and the edge of the PCB to make room for the switch's pins. The big drawback is that the new switch's key could only be 1.5 units big or smaller. Another drawback would be that Costar-style stabilizers could not be used for the large keys.

This is a draft of my intended plate design (right side only, but left side would be analogous). I made it in QCad with Litster's plate as a starting point.


Edit:
I think that there might be room on the PCB for drilling to fit extra 1u thumb key between the thumb cluster and the alphabetic keys, and without breaking any traces. As with the idea above, the new thumbkey would overlap the key under 'M'/''V'.


(ps. I intend to use sculpted key caps scavenged from a keyboard. That is why there are no 1.5 pinky keys and the big vertical index-finger key is 12.)
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 May 2013, 18:35:41 by Findecanor »
"Normal is the greatest enemy in regard to creating the new. To get around this you have to understand normal not as reality but as just a construct." -- Alan Kay
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline bisl

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2270 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 02:02:10 »
Findecandor: I definitely like the direction you're going. The key on the bottom row that you eliminated is probably the one that I use least, in all honesty, and the thumb is far more comfortable hitting keys close to the hand or even slightly underneath than it is reaching far out to the side.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2271 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 14:43:48 »
I am leaning towards getting a pair of plates made with the layout below. I think this would be the most reachable thumbkey layout. The outermost thumb key can not have Costar-style stabilisers.
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 May 2013, 14:55:28 by Findecanor »
"Normal is the greatest enemy in regard to creating the new. To get around this you have to understand normal not as reality but as just a construct." -- Alan Kay
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline bisl

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2272 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 14:54:45 »
One thing I still don't understand, even with the current design: why the large keys for thumbs? All our lives we used our thumbs against 1x tall spacebars; why change now? You could even fit a second key there instead of a 2x tall. In fact if the ergodox case supported it I would have used the 80 key layout myself.

Offline bearcat

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2273 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 15:00:13 »
bisl, seconded.

I don't understand why the tilt; if you look at suka's designs, he very quickly discarded the angled thumb-cluster in exchange for having an extra thumb button.  In my prototypes as well i found no real difference.

As for the 1x vs. 2x height thumbkeys, i went with 1.5 and found it makes it easier for chording.  not to mention you get a lot of 1.5 & 1.25 mod keys anyway with the various sets you get...

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2274 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 15:00:50 »
If I had made the keyboard, I would have have used 1u thumbkeys in a semicircle. I am trying to approximate that by using large thumbkeys, where the outermost is offset. I recon that I will only hit the tip of it, which is why it would need stabilisers.
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 May 2013, 17:38:28 by Findecanor »
"Normal is the greatest enemy in regard to creating the new. To get around this you have to understand normal not as reality but as just a construct." -- Alan Kay
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline OrangeJewce

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2275 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 17:14:57 »
One thing I still don't understand, even with the current design: why the large keys for thumbs? All our lives we used our thumbs against 1x tall spacebars; why change now? You could even fit a second key there instead of a 2x tall. In fact if the ergodox case supported it I would have used the 80 key layout myself.

Because it is uncomfortable at least IMO to use the thumb tip when actuating the spacebar etc. I would much rather use the thumb joint and tip together, which requires greater than 1u.

Cheers,
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ErgoDox Blue, ErgoDox White

Offline listboss

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2276 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 02:29:12 »
I am leaning towards getting a pair of plates made with the layout below. I think this would be the most reachable thumbkey layout. The outermost thumb key can not have Costar-style stabilisers.
(Attachment Link)

I am using the leftmost key on the bottom row to quickly push/pop layers with my thumb. So I am interested in keeping those.
Have you done any drilling on your current board? Did it not give you the desired result and that's why you are thinking of making a new PCB?

Offline wasabah

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2277 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 07:34:42 »
I have another question concerning the ErgoDox.
I usually have the two halves of the keyboard quite close together. So I would really like to use a shorter cable to connect them.
Can I just use any cable with stereo jack or does it have to be a specific one?
ErgoDox Classic | Logitech G400 | Logitech Marble | Logitech M570 | Logitech M235 | Logitech M305

Offline cpf

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ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2278 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 07:42:49 »
I have another question concerning the ErgoDox.
I usually have the two halves of the keyboard quite close together. So I would really like to use a shorter cable to connect them.
Can I just use any cable with stereo jack or does it have to be a specific one?

Needs to be TRRS - 4 conductors instead of the regular 3 or 2.

Offline Larken

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2279 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 07:43:00 »
you need a trrs connector. The normal stereo jack would be a trs connector, which wouldn't work with the ergodox (I've tried).

What you can do is to cut off the excess length, resolder the cables to the connector. Might as well take the chance to sleeve it while you're at it. BUT I wouldn't recommend doing it on your only cable if you're not confident about it. It's a pretty easy job, but you don't want to screw up and have no cable to use with your ergodox.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


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Offline wasabah

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2280 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 07:54:36 »
Ok, thanks! Can't find a short one online.. (Germany)
:(
ErgoDox Classic | Logitech G400 | Logitech Marble | Logitech M570 | Logitech M235 | Logitech M305

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2281 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 09:01:30 »
I am using the leftmost key on the bottom row to quickly push/pop layers with my thumb. So I am interested in keeping those.
Well, the mod would in effect just move that key slightly to the left.
I am not making a new PCB, just thinking of how to best to use the existing PCB. I had planned from the start to build my own case, use sculpted key caps and use PCB-mounting of switches, but then I noticed that I would need a plate anyway if I want 1u keys in the outermost columns, so I will be making a pair of plates.

Have you done any drilling on your current board?
I have drilled my right one, using a dremel tool. I realized that I should really use a proper drill press when drilling the left one. Because the new pinholes are through the ESD/grounding planes, I will also need to lacquer the pinholes to avoid a short-circuit. A plate will be necessary for keeping the switch in place.
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 May 2013, 09:04:22 by Findecanor »
"Normal is the greatest enemy in regard to creating the new. To get around this you have to understand normal not as reality but as just a construct." -- Alan Kay
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline listboss

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2282 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 13:49:04 »
I am using the leftmost key on the bottom row to quickly push/pop layers with my thumb. So I am interested in keeping those.
Well, the mod would in effect just move that key slightly to the left.
I am not making a new PCB, just thinking of how to best to use the existing PCB. I had planned from the start to build my own case, use sculpted key caps and use PCB-mounting of switches, but then I noticed that I would need a plate anyway if I want 1u keys in the outermost columns, so I will be making a pair of plates.

Have you done any drilling on your current board?
I have drilled my right one, using a dremel tool. I realized that I should really use a proper drill press when drilling the left one. Because the new pinholes are through the ESD/grounding planes, I will also need to lacquer the pinholes to avoid a short-circuit. A plate will be necessary for keeping the switch in place.

Would you mind sharing a picture of your board in its current state?

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2283 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 16:24:18 »
Would you mind sharing a picture of your board in its current state?
Not at all. Not pretty, though. Late at night now, so sorry about the poor lighting.
The drill holes are so ugly because I tried first to grind off some of the the ESD plane around the holes. I should just have let it be, and paint it.
21524-0
BTW, it appears that a 1.25 key fits in the new key position.  :D

Another problem I have now.. is sourcing the I/O expander. I can't find it in Sweden, and shipping from Mouser or DigiKey is expensive. :(
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 May 2013, 16:32:25 by Findecanor »
"Normal is the greatest enemy in regard to creating the new. To get around this you have to understand normal not as reality but as just a construct." -- Alan Kay
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline listboss

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2284 on: Thu, 09 May 2013, 00:24:34 »
Not at all. Not pretty, though. Late at night now, so sorry about the poor lighting.
The drill holes are so ugly because I tried first to grind off some of the the ESD plane around the holes. I should just have let it be, and paint it.
(Attachment Link)
BTW, it appears that a 1.25 key fits in the new key position.  :D
Another problem I have now.. is sourcing the I/O expander. I can't find it in Sweden, and shipping from Mouser or DigiKey is expensive. :(

Thanks for posting, it seems you are using the circuitry/traces from SW1:9 for the new switch, right?

I can post the expander to you if you think the USPS service is within your budget.

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2285 on: Fri, 10 May 2013, 22:46:33 »
Can the ErgoDox use PCB switches and go plateless?

Here us my layout for SC2. I am thinking about making a layer for each race. I currently have the first layer for gaming and second for typing.
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=9D5T3A&hash=21c1c6029e90ca9702c50c862fe3b2f7
SmallFry! <3

Offline Glod

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2286 on: Fri, 10 May 2013, 23:29:26 »
yep it can go plateless and use pcb-only though the massdrop litster-style case will not allow that

maybe we can get a shapeways shell designed and made to place the ergodox in and use pcb mounted-no plate required so any layout would work i would actually be interested in doing this as i think it was the original intent by the ergodox team to have a shell made instead of the litster case.
GLOD
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Offline brtaylor92

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2287 on: Fri, 10 May 2013, 23:35:04 »
yep it can go plateless and use pcb-only though the massdrop litster-style case will not allow that

maybe we can get a shapeways shell designed and made to place the ergodox in and use pcb mounted-no plate required so any layout would work i would actually be interested in doing this as i think it was the original intent by the ergodox team to have a shell made instead of the litster case.

There is a shell available on shapeways (actually, 3 - flat, slanted, tented), it's just much more expensive than litster's design.

Offline Glod

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2288 on: Fri, 10 May 2013, 23:37:28 »
yep it can go plateless and use pcb-only though the massdrop litster-style case will not allow that

maybe we can get a shapeways shell designed and made to place the ergodox in and use pcb mounted-no plate required so any layout would work i would actually be interested in doing this as i think it was the original intent by the ergodox team to have a shell made instead of the litster case.

There is a shell available on shapeways (actually, 3 - flat, slanted, tented), it's just much more expensive than litster's design.

forgot about that, im sure we could figure out something though to reduce cost, i'm sure i'm not the only one that wants a different case. I want variety among my THREE ergodox
GLOD
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Offline Larken

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2289 on: Fri, 10 May 2013, 23:43:38 »
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/Dox

but if you look at the design, it still uses a plate. But i'm not sure why you wouldn't want a plate unless you're look at the 1u key thumbcluster variant, as the plate design in the ergodox doesn't stop you from opening up the switches anyway. For using the standard layout, plate + pcb mounted switches are the best of both worlds in regards to stability.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


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Offline Glod

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2290 on: Fri, 10 May 2013, 23:51:45 »
I think I need to stop being lazy and design a plate-less case even if that means taking the time to learn how.

plateless  clicky switches like blues and whites actually feel awesome. I love variety.
GLOD
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Offline Jagriff

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2291 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 00:10:57 »
Here us my layout for SC2. I am thinking about making a layer for each race. I currently have the first layer for gaming and second for typing.
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=9D5T3A&hash=21c1c6029e90ca9702c50c862fe3b2f7
Why make a hardware layout on the ergodox when you can modify your hotkeys in game to serve the same effect?
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 May 2013, 00:14:10 by Jagriff »

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2292 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 00:15:13 »
I play UMS games as well as ladder. If I use anything else besides standard, it messes up. Some things lose their hotkeys.
If you dont get what I am saying just make any custom ingame layout and play an arcadr game. You may notice some of the hotkeys arent bound.
SmallFry! <3

Offline Larken

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2293 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 00:23:43 »
a hardware layer could also be brought over to another pc to play the same game without having to do the remaps all over again. plug and play, literally.

@theqsanity: that is an interesting layout you've got there.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2294 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 00:37:16 »
It's still in the works. I will change a few things. I think I will move the Q row one to the right and add tab where the Q is.
My goal is to have all the hotkeys that I would need on one hand. Like a game pad. I can't stand jumping from board to board trying to hit the hotkeys.
I noticed while playing Zerg that the V keys was much farther than I am used to. I may switch it with the N key.
SmallFry! <3

Offline Jagriff

  • Posts: 151
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2295 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 10:04:32 »
I play UMS games as well as ladder. If I use anything else besides standard, it messes up. Some things lose their hotkeys.
If you dont get what I am saying just make any custom ingame layout and play an arcadr game. You may notice some of the hotkeys arent bound.
Ah yeah, good point. I'm not a big arcade player.

a hardware layer could also be brought over to another pc to play the same game without having to do the remaps all over again. plug and play, literally.
Well if we are talking SC2, all of the hotkeys are tied to your account iirc.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2296 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 18:42:36 »
maybe we can get a shapeways shell designed [...]
I don't think building a case would be that difficult, depending on what material you want. A case does not need to be much more than a box with a bottom. The PCB would rests on spacers on the bottom. There are several 1/4" holes in each PCB where I think that you can put nylon spacers. Put bolts or screws through these spacers to hold the case together.
"Normal is the greatest enemy in regard to creating the new. To get around this you have to understand normal not as reality but as just a construct." -- Alan Kay
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline listboss

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2297 on: Sun, 12 May 2013, 23:18:19 »
Not at all. Not pretty, though. Late at night now, so sorry about the poor lighting.
The drill holes are so ugly because I tried first to grind off some of the the ESD plane around the holes. I should just have let it be, and paint it.
(Attachment Link)
BTW, it appears that a 1.25 key fits in the new key position.  :D
After some playing with KiCAD I moved the new holes more to the right so now I can fit a 1.5X perpendicular to the thumb keys.
(had to desolder all the switches on the right side, not fun  :mad:)
I printed the layout (attached) on a paper and used it as a guide to drill the hole.

Now my question is how do I lacquer the new holes since the copper layers are exposed? Any suggestion is welcomed  :)

I also used SolidWorks to model the location of the new key so I can mill the acrylic layers.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2298 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 09:52:49 »
Cool! But you would have to find a new place to fit the diode.

Btw, your circuit diagram has holes for PCB-mounted stabilizers. There are leads in the way for those holes on the production PCBs ...
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 May 2013, 10:03:02 by Findecanor »
"Normal is the greatest enemy in regard to creating the new. To get around this you have to understand normal not as reality but as just a construct." -- Alan Kay
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline listboss

  • Posts: 22
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2299 on: Wed, 15 May 2013, 02:31:59 »
Cool! But you would have to find a new place to fit the diode.

I'm using the diode from the old switch (sw1:9).
Isolating the copper plate that's exposed because of the drilling was much harder than what I thought, the lacquer kept pulling away from the sharp edges of the copper and sanding/smoothing it without exposing more copper was challenging  :-X

Btw, your circuit diagram has holes for PCB-mounted stabilizers. There are leads in the way for those holes on the production PCBs ...
I think they are shown from bphiphanies original design, I'm not using them.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 May 2013, 02:35:42 by listboss »