Author Topic: kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations  (Read 156123 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

fossala

  •  Guest
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #350 on: Mon, 26 March 2012, 14:23:25 »
Is there going to be a seperate thread for the group buy?

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #351 on: Mon, 26 March 2012, 15:29:28 »
I think one of the first things to do would be to lay this out for WASD KEYBOARDS and see what options might exist there. We already have blank ABS and PBT pricing from SP (we need spherical pricing option), so we should see what Weyman can do since he may have more flexibility when it comes to colors, engraving, etc. The idea that he could stock them and Kinesis could refer him for custom key caps seems like a probable "win". A lot easier than a group buy even if you pay an extra $10. (That's my opinion)

Still to do:
- We have not yet addressed getting the sets with pad printed or dye sublimated legends (SP offerings). Probably not a direction worth going.
- Spherical home row option.
- WASD etched only
- WASD supplied, blank and etched pricing.

This is a lotta work. Thanks to everyone for this!
« Last Edit: Tue, 27 March 2012, 01:22:09 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

fossala

  •  Guest
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #352 on: Mon, 26 March 2012, 15:47:27 »
I would like to be able to get them from WASD so I can have dvorak. :)

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #353 on: Mon, 26 March 2012, 18:28:22 »
I would think something being set up with WASD probably makes the most sense, unless there's something I'm not thinking of. Blanks, colors, etching....dunno if a group buy can do all that :)
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline boli

  • Posts: 342
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #354 on: Tue, 27 March 2012, 03:05:54 »
Quote from: input nirvana;557390
[LIST=|INDENT=1]
  • 2 DCS row 4/4 1x2 vertical.....Enter Delete

I think this is not a vertical key, as that would be the wrong slope. Isn't it a horizontal R4 key turned 90 degrees, so only the legend is vertical?

Here's an adapted version of kps' chart with Signature Plastics naming:


Quote from: input nirvana;557600
I would think something being set up with WASD probably makes the most sense, unless there's something I'm not thinking of. Blanks, colors, etching...

Yes please, custom layouts FTW! :)

I sent this pic to Weyman as well, but he hasn't responded to my last few emails so I'm not getting my hopes up.
« Last Edit: Tue, 27 March 2012, 03:33:57 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #355 on: Tue, 27 March 2012, 13:48:09 »
Quote from: boli;557956
I think this is not a vertical key, as that would be the wrong slope. Isn't it a horizontal R4 key turned 90 degrees, so only the legend is vertical?

Here's an adapted version of kps' chart with Signature Plastics naming:
Show Image



Hmmm....
What I have from WASD a couple months ago...I know we discussed it in the thread...then there was some confusion when you made your order...I don't remember exactly what the answer was we thought we came up with...I'm not able to go through the whole thread (on iphone)...

I got the key designation from the email Melissa at SP sent you. Did I misunderstand what she wrote? I think the 4/4 means the direction of the slope, which would make the slope as a non-vertical key, BUT it's on its side...which is why it's in the "vertical" box on their order sheet.

I THINK: DCS 1x2 row 4=DCS 1x2 row 4/4 vertical SAME EXACT KEY. But the different designation indicates it is in a vertical configuration.

This is what I have from WASD a couple months ago:
The ENTER DELETE have "R1 2.0" on the bottom of the key I got from WASD.
The SPACE BACKSPACE have an "E" on the bottom of the key I got from WASD which means his "ENTER" keypad key.
---but his designation is different, and his R2 2.0 ENTER key does not match SP R2 key, but their R4 key.

Thanks for modifying Kps diagram...I hope he is tracking this thread!
« Last Edit: Tue, 27 March 2012, 14:07:59 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline Bravoecho

  • Posts: 3
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #356 on: Tue, 27 March 2012, 16:51:53 »
If there is a group buy, or something like it, for the Kinesis -- I would likely be in for 2 complete sets if it's something interesting.

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #357 on: Tue, 27 March 2012, 17:16:15 »
Perhaps we should start an "Interest Check Thread for Custom Kinesis Keycaps" with the idea it won't happen for at least several months/late this year. We could feel out some different ideas, see what people might want, etc.

We know people want these or various combinations of these (so far):
- blank
- Colemak
- Dvorak only
- PBT
- blank to be etched/engraved by WASD KEYBOARDS

For the record, this is what's available from Kinesis:
Singleshot ABS keycaps that are...
1- Black or white keys with QWERTY
2- Black or white keys with QWERTY/DVORAK
Home row are blue sphericals.

Items we need to look into further for an interest check:
- Prices from Signature Plastics on legended ABS/PBT
- Prices from Signature Plastics on doubleshots
- Info from WASD Keyboards about supplying SP keycaps or direct equal for Kinesis replacement sets. (Will he do it, and about when)
- Info from WASD Keyboards about supplying PBT (Will he do it, and about when)

We have pricing from SP for blank ABS and PBT which combined with custom etching from WASD, probably covers 90% of what people would want.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline boli

  • Posts: 342
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #358 on: Tue, 27 March 2012, 18:09:47 »
Quote from: input nirvana;558351
Hmmm....
What I have from WASD a couple months ago...I know we discussed it in the thread...then there was some confusion when you made your order...I don't remember exactly what the answer was we thought we came up with...

Back then I ordered a NumPadPlus by mistake, rather than a (WASDkeyboards) R1-1x2, to use as Kinesis Delete/Enter:

NumPadPlus (no good):


(WASDkeyboards) R1-1x2 (sort of like NumPadZero, used as Kinesis Delete/Enter; in SP lingo I think this is a R4-1x2):


WASD's NumPadEnter is used as Kinesis Backspace/Space, so that's easy:


Quote
I got the key designation from the email Melissa at SP sent you. Did I misunderstand what she wrote? I think the 4/4 means the direction of the slope, which would make the slope as a non-vertical key, BUT it's on its side...which is why it's in the "vertical" box on their order sheet.

She said: The vertical keycaps on the num pad are a row 2/3 keycap for the + and a row 4/4 keycap for the Enter key

If SP's NumPadEnter and NumPadPlus are anything like WASD's, then we want a vertical r4/4, but not the vertical r2/3. Though until a minute ago I thought it was the other way around, so the chart above did not reflect that yet (it's updated now).

Quote
I THINK: DCS 1x2 row 4=DCS 1x2 row 4/4 vertical SAME EXACT KEY. But the different designation indicates it is in a vertical configuration.

I thought the main thing for a vertical key was that the cylindrical top surface is for a vertical cylinder, but I might be wrong. I'm just assuming due to my WASD experience. If my assumption is correct we definitely don't want such a key as Kinesis Delete/Enter, but a horizontal R4 instead.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 March 2012, 01:26:21 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #359 on: Tue, 27 March 2012, 20:53:47 »
Sounds like we gotta re-confirm the 2 vertical keys to settle this. I can see if Melissa will offer up measurements. This shouldn't be so hard! It would suck to have made a mistake with one of these.

EDIT---

VERTICAL KEYS INFO
ENTER/DELETE - (WASD=R1 1x2).....SP ? (fill in blank)
SPACE/BACKSPACE - (WASD=NumPadEnter).....SP ? (fill in blank)

I'm not so sure I understand the SP nomenclature for the keys under the "VERTICAL" heading/box. Some explanation of their definitions are needed.

Should this diagram get sent to Melissa? Does this convey what we are looking for? Am I thinking of this wrong and there's a better way to match what we found at WASD with what SP names their equivalent?

Boli-Are you closer to the answer than I am?

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 46007[/ATTACH]
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 March 2012, 01:30:18 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline boli

  • Posts: 342
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #360 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 01:41:11 »
Quote
Boli-Are you closer to the answer than I am?

Well I'm reasonably sure we want the keys I listed in the diagram, but I will ask Melissa to confirm. :)

BTW Weyman replied this:
Quote
Technically, I could make the missing keycaps. But, the problem is still the initial tooling costs of making the mold and then producing the minimum quantity needed for each color. Unfortunately, I don't think there's going to be enough demand overall to justify making them. You have a link to the thread? I'll take a look and maybe I can at least work something out with SP to get the missing keys in a single color.

I returned the link of your official parts list post.
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #361 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 01:57:59 »
Ok, I could telephone her as well tomorrow to try and confirm. I'd need to email the diagram first and ask her to call me after she figures out what I'm talking about.

Should I do that, or do you think you got it? Is it easier if it's verbal verses email? Let me know, I'm happy to do it. We're so close!
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline boli

  • Posts: 342
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #362 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 16:18:59 »
She confirmed we need vertical 2x1 row 4/4 (NumPadEnter) and horizontal 1x2 row 4 (NumPadZero). I sent along your picture above.
Quote
Yes our keycaps will look like what you have illustrated, but please be aware that ours are a bit shorter in profile than those pictured. Attached is a picture of our keycaps compared to standard Filco keycaps which are taller, like those pictured.

The file she attached is this: Filco vs. Signature Plastics key caps

If the Filco keys match WASDkeyboards keys like she said, we might have trouble mixing SP keys with WASD keys. :-/

That said, the only crucial SP key caps (in my opinion anyway) are the tall thumb cluster keys (DCS row 5). I suggest one of you guys in the US orders one to see how well it fits. :)
The 1.25 wide side keys would be nice to have, but not a dealbreaker (IMO), as the WASD replacements work fairly well. I think I'll stick to my order of those from the round 4 group buy, so will hopefully be able to see how well they mix and match.

Personally I'm most interested in a custom lasered set with as many proper keys as possible, so I hope Weyman will come through.

A full blank set from SP is not important to me, but I might buy one for cheap (say $40, which is the price we get for 25+ sets).
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 March 2012, 16:32:15 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #363 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 18:33:39 »
Quote from: boli;559599
She confirmed we need vertical 2x1 row 4/4 (NumPadEnter) and horizontal 1x2 row 4 (NumPadZero). I sent along your picture above.
The file she attached is this: Filco vs. Signature Plastics key caps
YAYYY! We are positively confirmed! I made the corrections in the thread and Split Kinesis mod wiki for the "OFFICIAL PARTS LIST". I'll add the Kps/Boli diagram now in the wiki article for visual reference.

Quote from: boli;559599
If the Filco keys match WASDkeyboards keys like she said, we might have trouble mixing SP keys with WASD keys. :-/
Yes, WASD keys are Filco keys. I don't think there would be much of an issue mixing, but if we do this whole thing right, we shouldn't have to. That's what I've been trying for :)

Quote from: boli;559599
That said, the only crucial SP key caps (in my opinion anyway) are the tall thumb cluster keys (DCS row 5). I suggest one of you guys in the US orders one to see how well it fits. :)
Dox confirmed the SP DSC Row 5 1x1 to the the 4 tall thumb cluster keys. I looked in the awesome key wiki, but I don't see that Filco has a Row 5 key? That would explain why WASD drew a complete blank when looking at the 4 tall keys on the Kinesis.

Quote from: boli;559599
The 1.25 wide side keys would be nice to have, but not a dealbreaker (IMO), as the WASD replacements work fairly well. I think I'll stick to my order of those from the round 4 group buy, so will hopefully be able to see how well they mix and match.

Personally I'm most interested in a custom lasered set with as many proper keys as possible, so I hope Weyman will come through.

A full blank set from SP is not important to me, but I might buy one for cheap (say $40, which is the price we get for 25+ sets).
It doesn't matter where the blank keys come from, just that they are the correct replacement keys and that WASD will laser them. That way we have the option of correct blanks and correct custom laser.

It seems to me that WASD getting and stocking blanks from SP (or whomever) and selling them as blanks and custom laser will make almost everyone happy. But there's always a malcontent in every group :)

What did you wind up buying from the round 4 group buy? It's still going for a couple days....

We are at the very least finally complete with the key cap replacement search (more manufacturers are always an option), so now it's just creating a path to getting custom keys somewhat readily available at a reasonable cost for the future.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 March 2012, 18:39:53 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline boli

  • Posts: 342
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #364 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 02:28:13 »
Quote from: input nirvana;559725
Yes, WASD keys are Filco keys. I don't think there would be much of an issue mixing, but if we do this whole thing right, we shouldn't have to.


Well I already have 3 keyboards full of WASDkeyboards caps. ;) About the mixing, IIRC Filco/WASD and SP keys have different stem lengths to make up somewhat (totally?) for the different skirt length. Melissa's comparison picture makes the difference look more pronounced than I thought, hence my concerns.

Quote
Dox confirmed the SP DSC Row 5 1x1 to the the 4 tall thumb cluster keys. I looked in the awesome key wiki, but I don't see that Filco has a Row 5 key? That would explain why WASD drew a complete blank when looking at the 4 tall keys on the Kinesis.


I thought they were function keys, but the Filco vs. SP comparison pics made me doubt myself. :) I wonder if Melissa's comparison picture shouldn't read R5, R1 to R4 from top to bottom. As it is, it lists row 4 twice, and doesn't have the number row. I asked for clarification.

Quote
It doesn't matter where the blank keys come from, just that they are the correct replacement keys and that WASD will laser them. [snip] It seems to me that WASD getting and stocking blanks from SP (or whomever) and selling them as blanks and custom laser will make almost everyone happy.


That would be awesome, my hopes are on Weyman (you did see his message above?).

Quote
What did you wind up buying from the round 4 group buy?


I'll get 3 sets of 1.25-wide side keys for sure, and maybe a round3 Colemak Alpha set. Current price is too high though, still more than QWERTY Alpha + Colemak set (still have those in my order to get price updates, will remove them eventually), which doesn't make sense.
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #365 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 03:54:02 »
Quote from: boli;560129
Well I already have 3 keyboards full of WASDkeyboards caps. ;) About the mixing, IIRC Filco/WASD and SP keys have different stem lengths to make up somewhat (totally?) for the different skirt length. Melissa's comparison picture makes the difference look more pronounced than I thought, hence my concerns.
Yea, too risky to try and put a custom laser set with mixing key caps. No one wants crap. Stupid different stem lengths. I had mixed Kinesis doubleshots and Kinesis singleshots and didn't notice a difference, but that doesn't mean anything. I'm taking the idea of mixing off the radar, too problematic. And...we shouldn't need to do this.

Quote from: boli;560129
I thought they were function keys, but the Filco vs. SP comparison pics made me doubt myself. :) I wonder if Melissa's comparison picture shouldn't read R5, R1 to R4 from top to bottom. As it is, it lists row 4 twice, and doesn't have the number row. I asked for clarification.

I'm not happy with that entire sheet. I also saw it in Ripsters ever-more-awesome key wiki, and hated it there too. It doesn't answer questions, and creates more questions. There are other comparisons in the wiki showing Filco and SP...they show 2 top rows the same keys and no Row 5. I asked a question in Rippys subforum if Filco has a Row 5 keycap. Let's see if he 1) tears me to shreds, 2) ignores me, 3) answers.

Quote from: boli;560129
That would be awesome, my hopes are on Weyman (you did see his message above?).
Saw his note. I'm not at the 'making custom key caps' threshold. There should be no reason for it (unless I'm missing something?). The best pricing would be from getting complete sets from one source (consistency) and all the keys are currently manufactured....so....I want this for everybody. No compromise. (Am I missing something?)

Quote from: boli;560129
I'll get 3 sets of 1.25-wide side keys for sure, and maybe a round3 Colemak Alpha set. Current price is too high though, still more than QWERTY Alpha + Colemak set (still have those in my order to get price updates, will remove them eventually), which doesn't make sense.
I pulled my interest off that group buy because it was confusing, think I had to buy a bunch of extras, too expensive, still may not have gotten what I want, and I have not had the time to devote to sorting it all out and getting it done. It's been a nasty several months for me, and everything has suffered :( I am intrigued by his blank doubleshots though.

In my opinion we've come too far and put too much effort to settle for imperfection for something as simple as key caps, that we should be able to buy easily from Kinesis or a source they could have easily directed us too. I'm not willing to hodge-podge this last step to Kinesis-Nirvana, and I don't want you or anyone else to either. Forget mixing, manufacturing some 'missing' keys, group buying mix-n-match, or whatever. I want the 2 manufacturers of the Kinesis keys (SP is one of them), and I want pricing and options. This is going to happen.

Ba-da-BING!
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline Icarium

  • Posts: 251
  • I AM A MONKEY!
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #366 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 05:50:03 »
Quote from: input nirvana;560166
I had mixed Kinesis doubleshots and Kinesis singleshots and didn't notice a difference, but that doesn't mean anything.

There are DS Kinesis caps? :o
I had a sig once but it's gone. It used to display an icon of a Kinesis. Just imagine that.

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #367 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 06:02:28 »
Quote from: Icarium;560222
There are DS Kinesis caps? :o
You didn't the KEY CAP section in the Split Kinesis mod wiki????
There are even pics :(
Click my sig.
Sigh.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline Icarium

  • Posts: 251
  • I AM A MONKEY!
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #368 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 07:15:13 »
Quote from: input nirvana;560228
You didn't the KEY CAP section in the Split Kinesis mod wiki????

Well, it's REALLY LONG! :)
Combined with the fact that I don't generally care much about keycaps... maybe I was just too distracted by the boobs. ^^
I had a sig once but it's gone. It used to display an icon of a Kinesis. Just imagine that.

Offline boli

  • Posts: 342
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #369 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 09:10:12 »
Regarding the Filco vs. SP PDF from Melissa, she clarified:
Quote
On a standard keyboard, the function row and the number row are the same height and are row 1 keycaps. The QWERTY row is row 2, the ASDFG row is row 3 and the bottom two rows are row 4.
I hope this clarifies!

No time for other stuff ATM (work).
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline bogboar

  • Posts: 10
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #370 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 11:43:29 »
Quote from: rantenki;444685
I swapped my keys out during one of the early cherry keycap group buys, and they work _awesome_. I never looked back, and there is nothing unusual about the keys. The main issue is relocating keys from various rows to the thumb keys. The kinesis keys are all kinda tall though, so YMMV.
(Attachment Link) 30709[/ATTACH]


How do you game on your Kinesis do you operate WASD with your pinky/ring/middle fingers? Seems to me like if a man were to get a Kinesis, a man would migrate to ESDF-centric gaming.

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #371 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 12:48:47 »
Quote from: boli;560332
No time for other stuff ATM (work).

I'm making effort :)

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?29302-The-only-place-on-the-planet-for-this

EDIT---
I'm traveling on iPhone, so hard for me to search.
- Does Dox know who makes 7bits GB4 keys?
- Do we know that these are exact Kinesis replacements?
- I'm looking for Filco key info similar to SP diagrams.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 March 2012, 16:11:54 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline boli

  • Posts: 342
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #372 on: Mon, 02 April 2012, 02:52:41 »
Quote from: bogboar;560449
How do you game on your Kinesis – do you operate WASD with your pinky/ring/middle fingers? Seems to me like if a man were to get a Kinesis, a man would migrate to ESDF-centric gaming.

Exactly right, ESDF it is (but then I used ESDF even before switching to the Kinesis).

Quote from: input nirvana;560527
I'm making effort :)

Cheers for checking. So far we learned that the Race function (F#) key row is also called R5, just like the tall SP keys, right?
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #373 on: Mon, 02 April 2012, 03:27:08 »
Quote from: boli;564434
So far we learned that the Race function (F#) key row is also called R5, just like the tall SP keys, right?

Yes, and a little more than that. I've made the conversions. Anything in RED is not confirmed yet and we need to still follow up.
(This is copied from the Everything Kinesis Advantage wiki....I renamed the Split Kinesis Mod Project, LOL!)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The same exact key caps with the taller skirt (Filco/Costar). So far:
ORDERING INFORMATION (Costar/Filco/equal option):
A Kinesis set (with cylindrical instead of spherical home keys):

[LIST=|INDENT=1]
[*=left]10 row 4 1x1..........1 2 4 5 6 7 9 0 Home PageUp
[*=left]12 row 3 1x1..........Q W E R T Y I O U P 3 8
[*=left]*12 row 2 1x1........A S D F G H J K L ;: End PageDown
[*=left]18 row 1 1x1..........Z X C V B N M ,< .> /? `~ \| Larrow Rarrow Uarrow Darrow [[ ]]
[*=left]4 row 5 1x1............CTRL ALT/OPT Command/Win (the 4 keys at the top of the thumb clusters vary in function depending on OS used)
[*=left]2 row 4 1x1.25.......=+ -_.....A Costar/Filco part?
[*=left]6 row 2 1x1.25.......Tab \| CapLock '" Shift Shift.....A Costar/Filco part?
[*=left]2 row 1 1x2 (turned vertical).....Enter Delete
[*=left]2 row 1x2 vertical (NumPadEnter)......Space Backspace
[/LIST]
To have the 8 home row keys as the original 'spherical' keycaps:
- Only 4 Row 2 1x1..........G H End PageDown
- Add 8 DSA Row 3 1x1...........A S D F J K L ;: (these may be a "Deep Dish" key cap).....A Costar/Filco part number?
I disregard the "homing bump" option for the index fingers when using the spherical keys options (see DSA sheet)

A tactile homing "bump" or "bar" can be used on the index fingers of the home row if the spherical keys are not used. Hardly required since the keywells mostly guide your fingers to the correct locations:
- *Only 10 row 3 1x1.....................................A S D G H K L ;: End PageDown
- Add 2 DCS row 3 1x1 with "bump" or "bar".......F J.....A Costar/Filco part number?
« Last Edit: Mon, 02 April 2012, 03:50:40 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline boli

  • Posts: 342
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #374 on: Mon, 02 April 2012, 03:49:07 »
BTW regarding concerns about mixing keys: I don't mind if some keys have a shorter skirt (only a visual deficiency), but if their height and slope does not match (functional deficiency) that's suboptimal. Slightly different slope (such as WASD's 1.25 wide keys) is not nearly as bad as different height (tall thumb keys) though.
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #375 on: Mon, 02 April 2012, 04:04:24 »
Height/slope not correct=bad, not acceptable. We are not going that path.

Skirt height mixing=not bad, but we are trying to avoid. We only need: R2 1x1.25 and R4 1x1.25 (NOT SP designations!!!) and we are complete. The other 2 line items are sphericals, and R2 1x1 with homing bumps/bars, and these are optional.

We know these keys are made. They are on our keyboards, and SP didn't make them. I doubt these are custom. I can't find the Costar/Filco/Race/Anything with a key cap schedule anywhere on the web...I mean really, is it possible it's not "out there"? A couple people on our geeky keyboard sites and then emails to suppliers/manufacturers and we should be done with it. WASD didn't have them, that concerns me. But he didn't have the ultra high R5 either.

We're very close.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #376 on: Thu, 05 April 2012, 01:42:32 »
I don't think Costar actually makes the key caps. They just buy them for all of their keyboard lines. So still looking for the source for the keys. Kinesis confirmed that none of their keys are custom to the Advantage...that means the keys exist normally out in the wild :)

This is a thread on Qtans vendor forum to see about replacement PBT key caps, you can monitor for when the info is available:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?29875-Blank-PBT-key-caps-for-Kinesis-Advantage-(Cherry-MX)

Color layout concepts:
I have my all black keyboard idea with no legends...just as Boli did his, but I also I had thought of making my black Kinesis match my iMac (aluminum and black).
One idea was to use gray keys like Boli did (but with 8 red home row keys, like on the right side (Excuse the poor use of red Paintbrush):
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 47627[/ATTACH]Maybe instead of light or dark gray, the keys should be silver, or metallic.

Or maybe get the Advantage Pro with the silver top case and swap the blue for red keys:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 47625[/ATTACH]

Or stay with the black and red theme:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 47626[/ATTACH]

I had thought of maybe doing the 'home' thumb key as well:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 47629[/ATTACH]

THE REAL THING
I put some red (they look oversaturated or orange in cell phone photos, but BAD ASS in real life) on one of my extra key wells...because my keyboard underneath has white doubleshots installed. This will be it, no doubt. I should have known. Bold. Masculine, Clean.

  [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 47728[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 47633[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 47731[/ATTACH]
« Last Edit: Sat, 07 April 2012, 18:59:02 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline rantenki

  • Posts: 114
    • http://armyofevilrobots.com/
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #377 on: Sat, 07 April 2012, 11:13:23 »
Just thought I would add another option to the list. This is crossposted from http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?29898-Cherry-MX-keycaps-on-thingiverse so any discussion probably belongs there, but the whole reason for the project was the mismatched key heights I have on my advantage...

---snip---

Quote
Hey all, just thought I would drop a heads up that thingiverse has a keycap library that I am working on. You can take a (very early) peek here:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:20953

There will eventually be a full set of parametrically generated keys, I just need to get a script together that actually generates them from a spreadsheet rather than having to manually set the design parameters. It's in solidworks, btw.

Show Image


Cheers;
- Derek

p.s. The flash really added a sheen. The key doesn't stand out at all from the other keys (other than being cleaner) in person.

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #378 on: Sun, 08 April 2012, 01:56:27 »
Thanks for showing and linking. I gotta learn more about this.

What can you tell us about the key? Better/worse/same? And what is the cost?
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #379 on: Sun, 08 April 2012, 11:05:00 »
I imagine the unit cost on the key would be quite low, provided one has free access to such a machine to make one. Last I checked, polymers are cheap.

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #380 on: Mon, 09 April 2012, 00:13:27 »
Where are such things, and where/what are they mostly used for?
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline rantenki

  • Posts: 114
    • http://armyofevilrobots.com/
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #381 on: Mon, 09 April 2012, 14:38:02 »
The keyboard was manufactured on my homebuilt 3d printer, using PLA plastic, which is quite hard, although a bit brittle. The surface texture is a little rough, quite pleasant to the touch. The details on the printer are in the video:
Quote
There is nearly no material, maybe a couple meters of filament tops. I am using a PLA plastic in a reprap, specifically this one:

[video=youtube_share;OuQZ-TEaSpg]http://youtu.be/OuQZ-TEaSpg[/video]


The actual material cost is probably less than a dime for the key, but the printer runs about $1k in parts.

This is all a lead up for building a new kinesis variant with adjustable split, tilt and spacing:


Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #382 on: Mon, 09 April 2012, 14:48:46 »
I <3 this!

I'm looking at this in detail right after lunch!
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline uberben

  • Posts: 62
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #383 on: Tue, 10 April 2012, 11:01:10 »
Quote from: rantenki;571661

This is all a lead up for building a new kinesis variant with adjustable split, tilt and spacing:

Show Image

This looks awesome! I hope you plan to release all of these parts to thingiverse when you are done. I was hoping I wouldn't have to chop up my factory Kinesis case to experiment with some mods, so 3d printing a custom one would be perfect. Have you tried printing a case yet? I imagine all the weird curves and cavities would make 3D printing a bit of a challenge.

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #384 on: Tue, 10 April 2012, 12:51:10 »
Two thoughts:

1) Could use this opportunity to consider a different thumb cluster alignment. I asked Hoggy on Deskthority to post comparative pics of Kinesis and Maltron...very interesting. I can post link here if there is any interest.

2) Options of having the wristrest like on the original Kinesis? I think it may be mandatory since the keywells are 3D.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline rantenki

  • Posts: 114
    • http://armyofevilrobots.com/
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #385 on: Tue, 10 April 2012, 13:29:31 »
There is going to be a wristrest, but it is going to be part of the base, with a contoured piece of gel silicone. I haven't measured it out yet, but once I finish the bottom layer and mounting design, I can carve some more out of the top shell to make room for it. Believe it or not, the new design already sits significantly lower to the table than the existing Kinesis shell. I never understood why the edge of the kinesis was so proud of the desk, but I guess it is to get the keywellss below palm level. The problem is that (for us big guys at least) some of the palm sits off the edge, and you get a sharp keyboard edge against the wrist joint :\

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #386 on: Tue, 10 April 2012, 13:46:21 »
Interesting. I look forward to seeing this :)

If you have a dedicated thread/website for this, I'd like to have a 'Kinesis Reimagined' mod-heading in my Everything Kinesis Advantage wiki that is currently getting redone. A couple pics and a small write-up, then linking to your website or thread.

Let me know if that could happen in the future.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline rantenki

  • Posts: 114
    • http://armyofevilrobots.com/

Offline Icarium

  • Posts: 251
  • I AM A MONKEY!
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #388 on: Thu, 12 April 2012, 03:46:10 »
Nice. Now I want myself such a printer. Where did you find the time to make this thing??
I had a sig once but it's gone. It used to display an icon of a Kinesis. Just imagine that.

Offline rantenki

  • Posts: 114
    • http://armyofevilrobots.com/
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #389 on: Thu, 12 April 2012, 20:29:15 »
The keys were actually about an hour of work each, plus another 20 minutes or so to print. I throw together little things like this on my lunch breaks all the time.

As for the more over-reaching project of the keyboard case, I do expect to have the casing done in a couple of weeks, as work is a bit hectic til the end of the month. I haven't printed the case yet, but there won't be any difficulties. I have integrated snap-off supports in the design, so it prints standing up on it's end, and none of the overhangs are enough to cause problems.

Offline Icarium

  • Posts: 251
  • I AM A MONKEY!
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #390 on: Tue, 17 April 2012, 02:42:31 »
Can you make me a little Cthulu? :D

I should totally build a 3D printer. I wish any of my friends were only remotely interested in something like that. Doing it completely on my own is just too much alone time. :/
I had a sig once but it's gone. It used to display an icon of a Kinesis. Just imagine that.

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #391 on: Tue, 17 April 2012, 02:47:44 »
Alone time is when the magic happens :)

I can't get the video to load to see what's required. If this is something that the community would want a bunch of stuff from, I may be in a position to make one in several months.
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 April 2012, 02:50:16 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline rantenki

  • Posts: 114
    • http://armyofevilrobots.com/
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #392 on: Tue, 17 April 2012, 17:53:44 »
I have had quite a few PMs about custom keys. The printer isn't really a money making proposition for me at this time, and I bill out my engineering services at a rate that would make me look like a jerk for just keycaps, so I won't be doing them for sale. Sorry all. The design is up on thingiverse though, so anybody with a printer can make some.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:20953

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #393 on: Tue, 17 April 2012, 18:10:21 »
Building the printer about $1,000.

The software??

Able to make it do wood key caps?

I want to possibly replace my Kinesis keys with wood, and have them match existing profiles/shapes? This is a software issue, correct?
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline wasdkeyboards

  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 59
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #394 on: Tue, 17 April 2012, 18:22:16 »
Those 3D printers use plastic only. It doesn't cut it out, it "builds" it. You'd want to make your own CNC machine if you want wood.

But, you guys might want to check out this high-res 3D printer: http://www.indiegogo.com/veloso3dprinter
Questions and comments, please visit our Geekhack: WASD Keyboards Vendor Forum
WASDKeyboards.com - Custom Mechanical Keyboards

Offline net2522

  • Posts: 322
  • Location: THAILAND
  • lollollollol
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #395 on: Tue, 17 April 2012, 18:24:50 »

Offline Input Nirvana

  • Master of the Calculated Risk
  • Posts: 2313
  • Location: Somewhere in the San Francisco Bay area/Best Coast
  • If I tell ya, I'll hafta kill ya
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #396 on: Tue, 17 April 2012, 19:03:57 »
It's a fun thought, but I'll back down. Takes more of a man to jump into that arena.

Meh
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline uberben

  • Posts: 62
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #397 on: Wed, 18 April 2012, 08:47:34 »
I imagine a CNC mill could make the caps out of wood, but the stem would probably be a challenge. You could probably use the 3d printer to make some stand alone stems that could slip into a small notch in the wooden cap made by the mill, then glue it in place. If I get access to a CNC mill and 3D printer (which is actually kind of likely) I may have to try this.

Also, 3D printing services like Ponoko and Shapeways can 3d print some interesting materials such as steel, glass, and multi-coloured ceramic. Those materials would be less flexible, so the stems might need to me more carefully designed so they fit perfectly. Alternatively, you could print the stems in plastic separately and then glue them in, much like my wood cap suggestion.
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 April 2012, 09:26:04 by uberben »

Offline Icarium

  • Posts: 251
  • I AM A MONKEY!
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #398 on: Wed, 18 April 2012, 10:35:43 »
https://hannover.ccc.de/redmine/attachments/download/2

I hope this link works. ;)
That's not my work btw. Sadly! ;)
I had a sig once but it's gone. It used to display an icon of a Kinesis. Just imagine that.

Offline rantenki

  • Posts: 114
    • http://armyofevilrobots.com/
kinesis advantage keycap replacement limitations
« Reply #399 on: Wed, 18 April 2012, 22:27:16 »
I have a couple of CNC machines as well, and cutting wooden keys is pretty trivial, but the stem requires a VERY small endmill (1mm), which is slow, and fragile. 3d printing is a lot quicker and easier to set up, although the cnc would probably be faster.
The best method would probably be to make an aluminum mold blank for each of the bottoms, then tops that are interchangable for the keys. I may get around to that but I really want to get a new keyboard case built up first so that I can split my kinesis.