Author Topic: GH60 Keyboard Project  (Read 454512 times)

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Offline damorgue

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #250 on: Thu, 04 October 2012, 16:09:59 »
Is there an actual list somewhere and is anyone keeping track?

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #251 on: Thu, 04 October 2012, 16:18:09 »
No list... but whoever thinks of doing the work to make one might be more motivated with all this interest.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #252 on: Thu, 04 October 2012, 16:18:23 »
I'm sure there is enough interest to move it forward, the only question is how good of pricing will be due to volume.

Offline damorgue

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #253 on: Thu, 04 October 2012, 16:28:31 »
I think we should spread it more. It will probably be the FIRST EVER small ISO board. There is no ISO board smaller than TKL as far as I know.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #254 on: Thu, 04 October 2012, 16:33:17 »
I don't think the issue at this point is interest level.  There's no one stepping up to create the PCB and there are a whole lot of other details that need solid decisions, like the case.
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Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #255 on: Thu, 04 October 2012, 16:46:47 »
It looks like the interest is now much higher, or at least much more pronounced. That's cool. We can easily go for production with that many people.

The PCB is nearly done, I had a delay because of my university project.
Currently I only need to make decisions connected with mounting hole placement so that I'm sure it fits the poker case.
There is no metal plate designed though, which on the other hand can be produced later. Not everybody wants it with the plate, hopefully.


EDIT: Here's the current state of the PCB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/iizh3llzqu1jcyo/kb2.png
« Last Edit: Thu, 04 October 2012, 17:13:36 by komar007 »
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline kravlin

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #256 on: Thu, 04 October 2012, 20:48:53 »
I'm very interested as well. It'll be a learning experience.

But a programmable keyboard, with a good layout, and being able to dual layer sounds exactly like what i was looking for.

Unfortunately I'm a complete noob, so i can't help :(

Offline damorgue

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #257 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 01:20:10 »
Looks great. I wonder if we shouldn't sneak plates in with beasts GB, it will lower the cost of his plates too.

Btw, you put one too many soldering points of the LED. The rightmost won't be reached, even with off center LED in a switch mounted to the right.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #258 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 01:22:11 »
Ask beast otherwise i know a place and can get a quote if i have a file.

Offline The_Beast

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #259 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 01:29:42 »
Looks great. I wonder if we shouldn't sneak plates in with beasts GB, it will lower the cost of his plates too.

Btw, you put one too many soldering points of the LED. The rightmost won't be reached, even with off center LED in a switch mounted to the right.

I'll be more than willing to run it, but my deadline for the poker plates is 11/1 and not a day later (it may even be sooner because the 11/1 deadline is for 20 plates order, not the ~60 pre-ordered I have right now).

Also, I don't think it would lower the price because this guy charges based on the plate design. I even think that 2 plates are 99% the same but one has a GH logo and the other doesn't, I think he charges for single 2 plate designs and not 1 design with a small change. Plus, I'm pretty sure the 60 plates I have pre-ordered aren't going to lower the price that much more than the $10.99 quote he gave me for 20 plates ordered (material costs).


Gimme a plate dwg and I'll ask him next time I email him ^___^
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Offline dirge

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #260 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 02:30:12 »
It looks like the interest is now much higher, or at least much more pronounced. That's cool. We can easily go for production with that many people.

The PCB is nearly done, I had a delay because of my university project.
Currently I only need to make decisions connected with mounting hole placement so that I'm sure it fits the poker case.
There is no metal plate designed though, which on the other hand can be produced later. Not everybody wants it with the plate, hopefully.


EDIT: Here's the current state of the PCB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/iizh3llzqu1jcyo/kb2.png

Nice work mate, but I think most people will want the plate. :)
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Offline neeb

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #261 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 06:49:11 »
Decided to tally up the actual interest count here. Let me know if you want your name added or removed from this list. There was a couple of people who seemed to be interested but didn't officially say it so I didn't add you for now lol. Maybe jdcarpe can take over from here and paste this into post 1.

Interested:

jdcarpe
komar007
The_Beast
alixinhzai
damorgue
elton5354
sth
lysol
tgujay
longweight
modulor
jil_jil32
tjweir
metalliqaz
TheProfosist
Glissant
Tenkey
nntnam
Loligagger
Bim Gao
dirge
nebo
ferociousfingerings
MagicMeatball
mm87
JonDBurnett
phetto
fruktstund
FusRoDah
jessecoleman
KennyR
OddOne
Nask
salmo
pasph
esoomenona
kravlin
neeb
Hzza
osxoep

Total: 40
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 October 2012, 07:41:06 by neeb »

Offline Hzza

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #262 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 06:57:03 »
Add me to the officially interested list please.

Offline osxoep

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #263 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 07:18:26 »
Go on. Add me on the list.

I've set aside a few weeks student loans :D
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Offline neeb

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #264 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 07:41:37 »
Add me to the officially interested list please.

Go on. Add me on the list.

I've set aside a few weeks student loans :D

Added. And lol @ the student loans xD!

Offline wiredPANDA

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #265 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 09:05:21 »
You can add me to the IC list, as well.

And what else are student loans for?
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #266 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 09:05:54 »
Added list of interested parties to first post. Thanks, neeb!
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Offline neeb

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #267 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 09:12:52 »
Added list of interested parties to first post. Thanks, neeb!

No problem. Let's bring this bad boy to life!! Really awesome progress so far, to all of you that have been working on this. I wish I knew half as much as you guys do so I could contribute something useful but I'm just a poor little neeb for now xD!

Offline i3oilermaker

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #268 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 09:22:01 »
I'm interested, possibly in more that one.

Offline boost

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #269 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 09:23:25 »
Put me in for 1
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Offline damorgue

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #270 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 09:53:47 »
If it were to have an extra column to the right, I would get 3 instead of 1 and I would also have a Phantom and a kidney for sale.

Offline duq

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #271 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 09:54:46 »
Please count me in.

Offline Razer1987

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #272 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 10:03:56 »
I am in for ISO, great idea

Offline modulor

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #273 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 10:29:09 »
If it were to have an extra column to the right, I would get 3 instead of 1 and I would also have a Phantom and a kidney for sale.

Not a bad design idea...this could theoretically have a bottom row of | 1.5 | 1.5 | Space | 1.5 | 1.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | and have a dedicated arrow block, moving Fn over one and 3 additional keys above that.  It would have to have a proprietary case made, however.
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Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #274 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 10:33:10 »
If it incorporated my arrow block design I might even have considered using my Poker.. I guess I  will need to do my own version once I have the time (which by the way won't be any time soon..) =D

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #275 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 13:02:52 »
Keep it 15x5, don't f*ck with that. If you want something else there are other board projects like the KS mini.

Offline alvinliang

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #276 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 13:18:38 »
interest
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Offline Tenkey

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #277 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 15:16:46 »
put me down for 1

Offline neeb

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #278 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 15:53:42 »
put me down for 1

think you're on the list twice now lol

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #279 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 16:20:09 »
That just means you have to buy 2.

J/K. Fixed.
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Offline Appeac

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #280 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 16:31:46 »
Count me as interested, although money's a bit tight and I couldn't do it if the price got too astronomical... I'd love a project to get my soldering iron dirty again.
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Offline Tenkey

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #281 on: Fri, 05 October 2012, 22:51:53 »

Offline phetto

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #282 on: Sat, 06 October 2012, 00:24:23 »
add me on the list :]

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #283 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 00:04:25 »
Been following this thread every since jdcarpe started it, and finally decided for sure that I want this now. Add me to the list also :).

The PCB looks pretty crammed. What does it take to add LEDs in all the switchtes for a backlit effect? Does it need separate traces for all the LEDs or can they share the same electrical trace as the switches? How would the controller handle the LEDs? I know that's a lot of question, but the PURE is in this form factor and has LEDs. So it's doable, now I'm just wondering how hard it would be to implement it in this case.

And also, what is required to add USB hubs similar to HHKB? It's been mentioned earlier in this thread but I think it needs a separate chip for this because the ATmega34u does not have anymore spare pins?

Offline phetto

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #284 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 01:03:39 »
woah! Im in the list 2 times :D
Should probably change that since i only want one board ^______^

Offline neeb

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #285 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 05:39:55 »
Been following this thread every since jdcarpe started it, and finally decided for sure that I want this now. Add me to the list also :).

The PCB looks pretty crammed. What does it take to add LEDs in all the switchtes for a backlit effect? Does it need separate traces for all the LEDs or can they share the same electrical trace as the switches? How would the controller handle the LEDs? I know that's a lot of question, but the PURE is in this form factor and has LEDs. So it's doable, now I'm just wondering how hard it would be to implement it in this case.

And also, what is required to add USB hubs similar to HHKB? It's been mentioned earlier in this thread but I think it needs a separate chip for this because the ATmega34u does not have anymore spare pins?

From what I can tell, this keyboard has gotten progressively more complicated since the idea was first brought up so that it would be able to accommodate a bunch of different layouts and stuff. I would think that at this point (komar said the PCB is just about finished) it may not be very easy to add anything else.

I also have absolutely no involvement in the production/design of this though, lol, so maybe it can be done I'm really not sure. I would love to hear an update from komar, this thing is coming along nicely and I'm getting excited :D!!

Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #286 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 06:10:56 »
Been following this thread every since jdcarpe started it, and finally decided for sure that I want this now. Add me to the list also :) .

The PCB looks pretty crammed. What does it take to add LEDs in all the switchtes for a backlit effect? Does it need separate traces for all the LEDs or can they share the same electrical trace as the switches? How would the controller handle the LEDs? I know that's a lot of question, but the PURE is in this form factor and has LEDs. So it's doable, now I'm just wondering how hard it would be to implement it in this case.

And also, what is required to add USB hubs similar to HHKB? It's been mentioned earlier in this thread but I think it needs a separate chip for this because the ATmega34u does not have anymore spare pins?

From what I can tell, this keyboard has gotten progressively more complicated since the idea was first brought up so that it would be able to accommodate a bunch of different layouts and stuff. I would think that at this point (komar said the PCB is just about finished) it may not be very easy to add anything else.

I also have absolutely no involvement in the production/design of this though, lol, so maybe it can be done I'm really not sure. I would love to hear an update from komar, this thing is coming along nicely and I'm getting excited :D !!

I think this keyboard doesn't have backlight mainly because it doesn't have backlight;)
It was just designed as a poker replacement pcb with full programmability and a few available layouts. Not KBT Pure.


Technically speaking, it's possible. In practice, to have enough pins we'd need to redesign the matrix to be 8x8, not 5x14, increase the traces count by a half and add a darlington array to control rows or columns, and that means one more SO20 chip. Doable, but I've tried already and it gets pretty dense. We could also go with only all leds on/all leds off instead of individual control, but this still requires some more traces.
A different problem is there are some switches which are rotated to eliminate pad overlapping. In order to support leds, I'd have to put all of them in the same orientation. This would make support pins overlap with the main switch holes, making it more unstable in plate-less version.


As for updates, sorry none yet. Nearly all the design work is done, now I'm choosing elements. I need to find things which I can both easily buy in small quantities for prototype and on reels, so that the assembly company can pick and place them easily.
So it's mainly decisions time. I'm going to contact the pcb prototyping company on Monday and hopefully send the prototype design by the end of the week.
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline neeb

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #287 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 06:14:58 »
I think this keyboard doesn't have backlight mainly because it doesn't have backlight;)
It was just designed as a poker replacement pcb with full programmability and a few available layouts. Not KBT Pure.


Technically speaking, it's possible. In practice, to have enough pins we'd need to redesign the matrix to be 8x8, not 5x14, increase the traces count by a half and add a darlington array to control rows or columns, and that means one more SO20 chip. Doable, but I've tried already and it gets pretty dense. We could also go with only all leds on/all leds off instead of individual control, but this still requires some more traces.
A different problem is there are some switches which are rotated to eliminate pad overlapping. In order to support leds, I'd have to put all of them in the same orientation. This would make support pins overlap with the main switch holes, making it more unstable in plate-less version.


As for updates, sorry none yet. Nearly all the design work is done, now I'm choosing elements. I need to find things which I can both easily buy in small quantities for prototype and on reels, so that the assembly company can pick and place them easily.
So it's mainly decisions time. I'm going to contact the pcb prototyping company on Monday and hopefully send the prototype design by the end of the week.

Sounds good, komar. I just want to say again, amazing work you've done so far, man! And also the others in this thread that have contributed, really awesome stuff :)

This may not be very easy to estimate yet but I figured I may as well ask xD, do you have any idea how long it might be until you have all of the parts to put together a prototype to start messing around with?

Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #288 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 06:19:03 »
The company's lead time is 2 weeks as far as I remember, so if I order by the end of the week, I should have a working prototype in 3 weeks from now.
Later everything depends on whether there are errors in the design;)
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline Viz

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #289 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 07:59:44 »
Good luck with this project, i'm waiting eagerly to see how it turns out.
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 October 2012, 09:02:09 by Viz »

Offline Grimey

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #290 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 09:42:53 »
I can be added as an interested party for single at least.
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Offline SmallFry

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #291 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 16:38:32 »
Add me to the interested too!

Offline Caaaarrrt

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #292 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 17:56:26 »
Add me to the list for one thanks!
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Offline __red__

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #293 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 20:36:53 »
Add meh!

Offline The_Beast

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #294 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 20:45:20 »
The company's lead time is 2 weeks as far as I remember, so if I order by the end of the week, I should have a working prototype in 3 weeks from now.
Later everything depends on whether there are errors in the design;)

What layouts does it support? Is it like the 365 mini because that's the one I liked the most.
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Offline neeb

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #295 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 21:03:30 »
Hey jdcarpe, I've compiled some information about this project that I would kindly suggest putting in the first post. For people that are viewing this for the first time, it doesn't appear like there's much going on here unless you read all 10 pages of the thread lol. I think having some additional information on the first page would attract more people that may be interested but would have otherwise overlooked this beauty!

All of the following information has been confirmed by komar007 (for those of you that don't know who he is, komar is basically this project's lead engineer, or w/e is the best thing to call him lol).

The GH60 Custom Keyboard or "Phantom Mini"

This is a 60% Geekhack custom keyboard that will be somewhat similar to the Phantom, but it will not include the function row, arrows, or insert key group.





-The GH60 will be fully programmable with multi-layer support (possibly up to 16 layers)

-Will include a plate but is also designed to support PCB mounting for those interested

Supported Layouts:

-Normal/Standard Ansi layout
-ISO layout (vertical enter key, smaller left shift, additional key to the left of "z" key)
-1.75x right shift, allowing extra 1x Fn/Mod/etc key to the right or left of the right shift key
-Model M "winkeyless" style layout with 1.5x - 0 - 1.5x modifier keys on left and right sides, with 7x spacebar
-lysol's proposed layout with two 1.5x modifiers on the left and 1.5x - 1x - 1x - 1.5x on the right, with 7x spacebar


Here's komar's sketch of the different options available for more information:

Ok, so before I get to do the board, here's my proposed image, which shows all possible layouts. It seems this can be achieved, but we'll see how the pads for switches will fit.
Please correct any mistakes now, before I lay out the board;)


Show Image


Legend:
The basic ISO with 1.25 mods and 6.25 spacebar is drawn gray.
I marked some alternative options with green, they are 1/16 unit (unit = 19mm) smaller on all sides, not to interfere with gray lines.
In some places it was necessary to use blue, where I overlaid them on top of both gray and green. In such case the caps are 1/16 unit smaller on top and bottom, and as large as the green overlay horizontally.

The supported alternatives to gray layout are (can be mixed together):
* ISO layout (vertical enter and complementary "#" (marked green), and shorter left shift with additional key to the left from "z" (also green))
* extra fn/mod/whatever either to the left or right from right shift, making it 1.75u instead of 2.75u (marked green and blue)
* model-m-like 1.5-1-1.5 modifier on the left and right side of the spacebar (7u) (marked green)
* lysol's layout with two 1.5 mods on the left and 1.5-1-1-1.5 combo on the right (spacebar 7u) (marked blue)


Case Compatibility:

-Fits Poker cases


If any of my terminology is incorrect, feel free to let me know. I'm pretty noob at all of this, just trying to help out as much as I can because I think this is an awesome project :D
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 October 2012, 21:29:01 by neeb »

Offline The_Beast

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #296 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 21:08:07 »
Will is support a 1.5 0 1.5 spacebar 1.5 0 1.5 but without the short right shift/FN key?


Basically the pic you have above but with a standard sized shift button
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Offline neeb

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #297 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 21:11:04 »
Will is support a 1.5 0 1.5 spacebar 1.5 0 1.5 but without the short right shift/FN key?


Basically the pic you have above but with a standard sized shift button

Isn't that this?

-Model M "winkeyless" style layout with 1.5x - 0 - 1.5x modifier keys on left and right sides, with 7x spacebar

Edit: I guess that doesn't clarify whether or not the Fn key is on there. Hmm. I'm not sure, we'll have to wait to hear from komar on that I guess.

Edit2: Unless I'm looking at this incorrectly, it shouldn't be a problem; here's komar's sketch of the different options available:

Ok, so before I get to do the board, here's my proposed image, which shows all possible layouts. It seems this can be achieved, but we'll see how the pads for switches will fit.
Please correct any mistakes now, before I lay out the board;)


Show Image


Legend:
The basic ISO with 1.25 mods and 6.25 spacebar is drawn gray.
I marked some alternative options with green, they are 1/16 unit (unit = 19mm) smaller on all sides, not to interfere with gray lines.
In some places it was necessary to use blue, where I overlaid them on top of both gray and green. In such case the caps are 1/16 unit smaller on top and bottom, and as large as the green overlay horizontally.

The supported alternatives to gray layout are (can be mixed together):
* ISO layout (vertical enter and complementary "#" (marked green), and shorter left shift with additional key to the left from "z" (also green))
* extra fn/mod/whatever either to the left or right from right shift, making it 1.75u instead of 2.75u (marked green and blue)
* model-m-like 1.5-1-1.5 modifier on the left and right side of the spacebar (7u) (marked green)
* lysol's layout with two 1.5 mods on the left and 1.5-1-1-1.5 combo on the right (spacebar 7u) (marked blue)
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 October 2012, 21:23:01 by neeb »

Offline JC_III

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #298 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 21:26:21 »
Put me down for one please.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #299 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 21:32:24 »
Since he spec'd the grey layout as his baseline, looks like standard right shift is in. 

The fun part is going to be all the plate variations that people want :)
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens