Why U No Have Exotic Keycaps for Buckling Springs?

[Krogenar]

I've only been interested in mechanical keyboards for maybe 9 months or so, and it seems that the exotic keycaps (Iron Man, Clack Factory, etc.) are exclusively for Topre and Cherry switches. I hardly ever see any made for buckling springs. Is it because BS fans represent a minority within the mechanical keyboard community? (Racists!) Or... do people who prefer BS keyboards not want to pimp out their keyboards? Colored BS keycaps are easy (Unicomp, Fentek) but that's about it. I saw a GH auction a little while ago with a SSK with a BS red skull Clack Factory escape key, but that's about the only one I've seen.

I was thinking of posting an interest check on some kind of custom keycap EXCLUSIVELY for buckling spring keyboards (eat it Topre and MX people) but figured I should post here first and ask ...

... why the dearth (look it up you Philistines) of BS exotic keycaps?

EDIT: Also, if a group buy could be organized for BS fans, ideas for keycap designs? Something with a shape!

Or can they be found somewhere that I don't know about?

[alaricljs]

So who is going to make this shapely keycap for BS fans if you attempt a GB? 

[asura]

 

[0100010]

Personally I'm good with just the colored keycaps myself, no desire for any "novelty" caps - my keyboard is a tool that gets heavily used daily.

[vun]

Personally I'm good with just the colored keycaps myself, no desire for any "novelty" caps - my keyboard is a tool that gets heavily used daily.

I think this sort of attitude is common with a lot of BS board owners from what I've seen; many of them don't seem to want the "exotic" caps.
Obviously I could be wrong and there will of course be exceptions, but that's just the general impression I've gotten from hanging around the forums. Those who have a particular interest in BS boards are often more interested in the actual keyboards and quality of keycaps, rather than having novelty caps and whatnot.

[hashbaz]

It's because nobody can manufacture custom stuff for buckling springs.  SP doesn't deal in BS at all, and Unicomp's custom stuff has looked pretty bad in the past.  I remember seeing an old order thread for red "GEEK HACK" keys manufactured by Unicomp that were all off-center and uneven.

That, plus J. Random Geekhacker owns mostly MX keyboards.

[samwisekoi]

Actually, unless I am much mistaken, there were some clack caps made for two-part B/S keys.  That is essentially just the top and skirt; they fit onto the inside/stem of a two-part B/S keycap.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Owner of IBM & Unicomp B/S keyboards in addition to various Cherry MX keyboards.

            

[rootwyrm]

If you try to do custom one-pieces, sure. Custom two pieces, well, TBH can't see that being particularly hard to do. The tooling is dead simple, honestly.

But yes, 0100010 hit the nail on the head. Other than maybe a blank colored keycap or two, or the Black/Gray/Green sets, most of us who favor buckling spring also pretty much drive these things into the ground. (Well okay, maybe that's just me.) We largely buy 'em because they are damn near indestructible and we use them constantly. We're not looking for flashy shiny pretty thing - though I'd personally love a side-printed set - we're looking for a very sturdy tool to get the job done.

[samwisekoi]

But yes, 0100010 hit the nail on the head. Other than maybe a blank colored keycap or two, or the Black/Gray/Green sets, most of us who favor buckling spring also pretty much drive these things into the ground. (Well okay, maybe that's just me.) We largely buy 'em because they are damn near indestructible and we use them constantly. We're not looking for flashy shiny pretty thing - though I'd personally love a side-printed set - we're looking for a very sturdy tool to get the job done.

That's also true.  I'm not sure I would put an odd key on my primary or backup B/S keyboard.  I took all the dang 'tucky keycaps off my Unicomp blue.  But I totally would put side printed keycaps on.  And I did go crazy and have some Spacesaving media keycaps printed as well.

In Pebble.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[laffindude]

+1 here @ tool. I prefer get the job done and go home. I like my boards to get out of the way instead of screaming look at me.

Boring black blank boards = win.

[rootwyrm]

+1 here @ tool. I prefer get the job done and go home. I like my boards to get out of the way instead of screaming look at me.

Boring black blank boards = win.

Yeah, now that I think of it what I would really like? More than anything else in the world?
Give me a black bodied buckling spring with the old IBM style Num/Caps/Scroll indicator cluster using the original IBM green LEDs (they still make them.) Now give it the two piece keycaps with black tops and white/gray/green scheme. And some minor engineering work - specifically, use SDL->PS/2 and SDL->USB with a DIP to select (though I think the PSoC controller autodetects) and have that guy who does the fancy cables make 2m cables to go with 'em.

Now THAT would be a nice keyboard.

[Hyde]

Wasn't Unicomp suppose to come out with Red Alert and Blue Alert for buckling spring?  What happened to that?

[Hak Foo]

Actually, I could see it being simpler to do some exotic stuff for a buckling-spring board because there's no profile issues-- alll caps the same height.  But they'd almost have to be done as two-part key tops, due to the complexities of the bottom half of a BS key.

[jkercado]

My dream BS keyboard would be a black tenkeyless with black ninja-printed keys and red LEDs for the indicators.

[quadibloc2]

Well, it's also true that there's only a limited selection of layouts for buckling spring keyboards.

And while there are different types of mechanical switch, buckling springs come in only one "flavor" - like MX Blue, they have strong tactile feedback and are noisy. So they're for typists, not gamers. That naturally lends them to a less-flamboyant crowd.

[The_Beast]

Well, it's also true that there's only a limited selection of layouts for buckling spring keyboards.

And while there are different types of mechanical switch, buckling springs come in only one "flavor" - like MX Blue, they have strong tactile feedback and are noisy. So they're for typists, not gamers. That naturally lends them to a less-flamboyant crowd.

Don't generalize, I game on my BS board some times.

[rootwyrm]

Well, it's also true that there's only a limited selection of layouts for buckling spring keyboards.

And while there are different types of mechanical switch, buckling springs come in only one "flavor" - like MX Blue, they have strong tactile feedback and are noisy. So they're for typists, not gamers. That naturally lends them to a less-flamboyant crowd.

Don't generalize, I game on my BS board some times.

I game on my buckling spring keyboard all the time. Pretty damn well, at that, by many measures. I don't know why people actually think switch type somehow makes them a better gamer. It does not. The entire "difference" in activation time is a fraction of the margin of error of your reaction time. Meaning it makes no difference.

[Krogenar]

Thanks for all the input, everyone!

What I'm hearing, generally, is that people who tend to prefer BS keyboards are ... well, more "conservative" -- putting an Iron Man LED-lit keycap on a SSK would be like putting spinning rims on a classic muscle car -- morally wrong on some level. I spent about an hour looking for some kind of logo, shape or icon that would be in keeping with the vintage character of those keyboards and, well, I came up empty. We don't pimp out our 'boards.

Some choice comments picked out:

It's because nobody can manufacture custom stuff for buckling springs.  SP doesn't deal in BS at all, and Unicomp's custom stuff has looked pretty bad in the past.  I remember seeing an old order thread for red "GEEK HACK" keys manufactured by Unicomp that were all off-center and uneven.

I'm reworking a 122-key terminal keyboard into a more standardized Model M configuration, so I bought a whole new set of keys from Unicomp. They fit, but I had one or two keys out of the bunch that were a bit splayed out. The caps connect to the stems, but flare out a bit at the bottoms and interfere with the neighboring keys. Couple that with your experience hashbaz and I guess they wouldn't be the right supplier. Anyone have any experience with FenTek? They offer colored keycaps for buckling spring keyboards, but I've never bought anything from them.

Actually, I could see it being simpler to do some exotic stuff for a buckling-spring board because there's no profile issues-- alll caps the same height.  But they'd almost have to be done as two-part key tops, due to the complexities of the bottom half of a BS key.

I didn't think the BS keycaps were particularly complex. The uppermost keycap connects to the stem with just two ridges on the sides. Seems a lot simpler to me than the cross shape seen on Cherry keycaps. I have no Cherry keyboards at all, but they seem like they would more complicated to mold, no?

But yes, 0100010 hit the nail on the head. Other than maybe a blank colored keycap or two, or the Black/Gray/Green sets, most of us who favor buckling spring also pretty much drive these things into the ground. (Well okay, maybe that's just me.) We largely buy 'em because they are damn near indestructible and we use them constantly. We're not looking for flashy shiny pretty thing - though I'd personally love a side-printed set - we're looking for a very sturdy tool to get the job done.

Side printed... that would be different (well not SO DIFFERENT, because some of the original BS keycaps are side printed, aren't they side printed on the SSK? What were the original Model M keycaps made out of? ABS? PBT? Does it even matter? As for black keycaps with black print, that shouldn't be impossible. I'll email the people at SP and see what they say.

[Krogenar]

At SP's website they list the 'KT Family' of keys as some of they custom keycaps they can produce.

http://keycapsdirect.com/key-caps.php

It looks like BS keycaps to me? They're all the same height and shape.

[Malerik]

My dream BS keyboard would be a black tenkeyless with black ninja-printed keys and red LEDs for the indicators.

Ensuring that the keys are PBT, hell yes. Just ordered my first MX board and my Unicomp will go from daily driver/gamer and follow me to work since all the boards there are horrible mush. Side printed PBT Buckling Spring Space Saver with modded red LED's? Oh yeah....take my money.

[0100010]

Besides Unicomp, it appears that Fentek has some colored / printable BS keys available - http://www.fentek-ind.com/keys.htm


Hooleon also had a picture and link to colored BS keys - but they never responded to my sales inquiry emails -http://www.hooleon.com/products/ibm-model-m-keyboard-keycaps


This is what my Unicomp looks like.

[samwisekoi]

I have had little success in getting replies from Fentek sales.

And no success at all in getting them to even quote doing anything except their stock offerings.

FYI,

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Krogenar]

Besides Unicomp, it appears that Fentek has some colored / printable BS keys available - http://www.fentek-ind.com/keys.htm

Show Image

Hooleon also had a picture and link to colored BS keys - but they never responded to my sales inquiry emails -http://www.hooleon.com/products/ibm-model-m-keyboard-keycaps

Show Image

This is what my Unicomp looks like.

Show Image

Ok, the unicorn yak ... I can see why people would resist this... crotchety old farts who like Model M's. But if you limited the keyboard to one or two colors (lets say black and slightly less black) and then side printed (slightly less black and then slightly slightly less black) then maybe you would have an interesting-looking layout that is still worthy of a vintage keyboard. I don't know if I would ever want to paint an existing Model M case that wasn't repaired in some way, however.

The blue/black layout looks nice.

Oh, another weird, possibly silly idea -- braille-encoded keycaps? Maybe with side printing added? So you could surreptitiously learn braille and have an Otaku-styled 'board? I know you can get the stickers with the braille dots; I wonder if anyone ever cast the dots as a part of the keycap itself?

[rootwyrm]

I can't imagine ANYBODY sane would want rainbow keyboards except maybe as a show piece. Those sort of shots are usually just to show off manufacturing capability. Something people often forget is that companies like Fentek, Hooleon and so on are making these parts for people who still use Model M's as POS terminal keyboards. Which means they need custom printed and colored keycaps - in very large quantities. We're talking like "I want 5,000 green enter keys, 15,000 purple keys, and 10,000 fuscia keys!" So yeah, it's not exactly easy to get 'em usually.

I would have to poke around, but I know for a fact that IBM actually did make braille overlays. I don't know if they were actual keycaps or just sticker overlays though.

I don't know - there seems to be a lot of interest in Model M's with black side-printed PBTs. Making me think it'd be worth talking to Unicomp and probably SP or Fentek about putting together some sort of package. I'm guessing given the relatively few changes that'd need made it'd be pretty damn reasonably priced - especially compared to the 'do it yourself' packages.

[TheShining]

Suddenly really jealous of people with old IBM boards.

[fohat.digs]

ain't nothin' like 'em

[Larken]

here's my theory: without custom keycaps, buckling springs are unmistakably identifiable by their looks and sounds. people would be coming over to your table (if you have the gall to use one at work ) and notice it as not-an-ordinary-keyboard. less is more. not to mention you'd probably spend less.

the cherry-mx variant on the other hand.... looks and sounds like most keyboards (relatively) and need some pimping to stand out. thus the desire for custom keycaps, LED, blues (?). Otherwise, nobody knows that you have a wonder of keyboard engineering sitting in front of you

[Krogenar]

I'm wondering what a side-printed BS set of PBT keys would look like? Do the function keys get side-printed as well? I'd be willing to buy them, almost certainly, along with some two-tone color variations like black/gray, red/orange, something along those lines. I'm wondering just how many people actually have BS springs -- is it even enough to warrant a group buy? How many people are usually involved in a group buy in the first place? I have no idea.

[rootwyrm]

Like dis more or less. (Different font and white instead of gold but you get the idea.)
As for how many people own buckling springs and would be interested in a more modern looking one? Uh... I'm gonna go with probably close to half the people around here, if not more.

[Krogenar]

Like dis more or less. (Different font and white instead of gold but you get the idea.)
As for how many people own buckling springs and would be interested in a more modern looking one? Uh... I'm gonna go with probably close to half the people around here, if not more.

That looks pretty hot, actually. A bit more modern without being 'pimp'. Someone mentioned black keycaps and black sideprinting. Anyone aware of any kind of keyboard layout programs that could prototype this? Or, I could just photograph my Model M, and fire up Photoshop. To make it still an homage to Model M awesomeness I would want the legends on the new keycaps to match the classic ones as closely as possible.