Obama

[keyboardlover]

I can assure you, first off, that I have spent a lot of time traveling Europe (I've personally traveled to all of the UK, Ireland, Italy, France, Netherlands, Romania, Hungary), working with Europeans, and I also have family which I communicate with still living in Europe. And that's just Europe, I've also traveled extensively in Canada and I've been to Mexico. How does stealing money from your people and spending it make you rich? Those countries have a ton of money because of other means. If you don't know that socialist countries are failing because of socialism (and it isn't just happening in the South), then you've obviously bought into the statist propaganda. Which, to be honest, is completely understandable. We're all indoctrinated from youth and conditioned.

Do you actually have an effective argument or are you just going to keep trolling?

And to take things a step further, if we agree that fascism and communism don't work, then why do you believe socialism works? It, along with democracy, has been proven so obviously not to work at this point it is so obvious it's ridiculous. The writing is on the wall! If you want to ignore it, then fine. The simpler life is not to know; the more complex life is to know.

And, as a good friend of mine said, "revolutions are NEVER led by fat people." If you keep people well-fed and complacent, you can essentially get them to believe just about anything in regards to whether you're doing the right thing.

[Malphas]

Firstly, different opinion from you != trolling. It's always a sign of desperation in a debate when someone resorts to the "calling the other side a troll" card. Also, Who said fascism and communism don't work? Nazi Germany and the USSR are fairly obvious examples of massive success as far as economic advancement goes. Germany went from being a broken mess to the biggest power in Europe in a few decades, and Russia went from a country of peons to the first nation in space and one of the two global superpowers. How is either of those not working, from an economic standpoint? Does that mean I'm an advocate of either fascism or communism? Nope. Just as I'm not an advocate of socialism. However I'm still going to call you out on your blinkered and stereotypical BS though.

[keyboardlover]

Firstly, different opinion from you != trolling. It's always a sign of desperation in a debate when someone resorts to the "calling the other side a troll" card. Also, Who said fascism and communism don't work? Nazi Germany and the USSR are fairly obvious examples of massive success as far as economic advancement goes. Germany went from being a broken mess to the biggest power in Europe in a few decades, and Russia went from a country of peons to the first nation in space and one of the two global superpowers. How is either of those not working, from an economic standpoint? Does that mean I'm an advocate of either fascism or communism? Nope. Just as I'm not an advocate of socialism. However I'm still going to call you out on your blinkered and stereotypical BS though.

When I say "works" I am not referring to an economic standpoint (which is really beside the point, since all these systems really result in only the elites having the majority of the wealth). I am referring, instead, to the inevitable poverty and war which are created as a result. As is the case with nearly every type of state.

If I was desperate in this debate, then I would be. Just like, if the welfare state worked, then it would work.

[Malphas]

When I say "works" I am not referring to an economic standpoint (which is really beside the point, since all these systems really result in only the elites having the majority of the wealth).

Sorry, economics is besides the point despite being the entire basis of this conversation? And communism/socialism results in the elite having the majority of the wealth as opposed to liberal (in the classical sense) capitalism? Did you really just say that and expect your posts to be taken at all seriously? *facepalm*

I am referring, instead, to the inevitable poverty and war which are created as a result. As is the case with nearly every type of state.

Oh jeez...

If I was desperate in this debate, then I would be. Just like, if the welfare state worked, then it would work.

This is getting embarrassing.

[keyboardlover]

Embarrassing for who? Dude, if you can effectively refute my points, then refute them!

And when did I even suggest that laissez-faire capitalism (which I assume you're referring to) doesn't result in something similar? Although, really, that is a completely different conversation entirely, if you want to get into the topic of laissez-faire capitalism vs. classical liberalism or something like that, that is really outside the the realm of this debate (I think). We don't have to waste anyone's time here with that - if you want to though, feel free to shoot me a PM.

[dutmai]

I have to know if he uses a mechanical keyboard before I know if I likehimor not

[keyboardlover]

I have to know if he uses a mechanical keyboard before I know if I likehimor not

That actually makes more sense than the reasons most people use for voting.

[Malphas]

I've refuted your "points" several times now. You've then resorted to pretending that wasn't the subject, or accusing me of trolling, or just making the same cliche statements with nothing to back them up for the umpteenth time.

[Lanx]

obama uses a blackberry which is more mechanical than 98% of us here who use an iphone or droid (not counting the horrible droid keyboard, craps).

[keyboardlover]

obama uses a blackberry which is more mechanical than 98% of us here who use an iphone or droid (not counting the horrible droid keyboard, craps).

Oh crap. My argument has been destroyed! You CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT!

[davkol]

When I say "works" I am not referring to an economic standpoint (which is really beside the point, since all these systems really result in only the elites having the majority of the wealth).

Sorry, economics is besides the point despite being the entire basis of this conversation? And communism/socialism results in the elite having the majority of the wealth as opposed to liberal (in the classical sense) capitalism? Did you really just say that and expect your posts to be taken at all seriously? *facepalm*

When we're at it... there wasn't real communism in (Soviet) Russia, there was socialism, dictatorship, corrupt bureaucracy. In fact, I wonder if there has ever been communism except in quite small communities.

The problem with all those ideologies is that they work only for spherical cows in vacuum, not for actual people in real world.

[keyboardlover]

^ What he said. Agreed.

[iri]

Nazi Germany and the USSR are fairly obvious examples of massive success as far as economic advancement goes. Germany went from being a broken mess to the biggest power in Europe in a few decades, and Russia went from a country of peons to the first nation in space and one of the two global superpowers. How is either of those not working, from an economic standpoint?

easily. the first regime mentioned lasted for 12 years. the second one made it into 69 years of existence. both failed miserably lol.

[keyboardlover]

I say, always be wary of anyone who claims to be "closer to reality" than you. Freedom is a state of mind and reality is essentially perception. If it wasn't then we would always agree. There is a saying that in order to free one's mind, one should be careful to never hold any firm opinion on anything (which can be frustrating, of course), but it frees the mind to be open to acceptance of truth.

[microsoft windows]

The main thing that gets me about Obama is he says he's the one who knows about the middle class, even though he's a millionare.  And then he goes and talks about tomorrow and "moving forward" while he finances wasteful government spending on the backs of our children and grandchildren. But people still voted for him...guess they don't care that the government is basically robbing our future descendants by sticking the bill, over $16 trillion, to them.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

You can't just blame Obama for all of our troubles.  Don't forget about Congress...

[keyboardlover]

The main thing that gets me about Obama is he says he's the one who knows about the middle class, even though he's a millionare.  And then he goes and talks about tomorrow and "moving forward" while he finances wasteful government spending on the backs of our children and grandchildren. But people still voted for him...guess they don't care that the government is basically robbing our future descendants by sticking the bill, over $16 trillion, to them.

Dude you're WAY older than me. You're just figuring out now that politicians are liars?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

[microsoft windows]

The main thing that gets me about Obama is he says he's the one who knows about the middle class, even though he's a millionare.  And then he goes and talks about tomorrow and "moving forward" while he finances wasteful government spending on the backs of our children and grandchildren. But people still voted for him...guess they don't care that the government is basically robbing our future descendants by sticking the bill, over $16 trillion, to them.

Dude you're WAY older than me. You're just figuring out now that politicians are liars?

Oh, don't worry. I'm no stranger to the political world. Politicians have been lying for over 200 years now. But it's one of the basic flaws of a representative government--if there's one guy running who promises to walk on water, heal the economy, end war and violence, and cure the sick; and another guy running who's honest and says there's not much the government can do--who will more people vote for?

[keyboardlover]

Wait - which presidential candidate did you think was telling the truth? I can guarantee you that none of them were.

[SmallFry]

I agree there! Politics is just paid word fighting!

[keyboardlover]

I agree there! Politics is just paid word fighting!

Yep. We are unfortunately forced under threat of gun/prison to pay for them to lie to us. And the worst part is now that the media is so well-controlled, any politicians who attempt to tell the truth effectively commit career suicide since the media will quickly paint them as crazy or worse.

[modulor]

Which is more dangerous - being ruled by fear, or being ruled by hope?

Obama? Well I think he's essentially the same as Mitt Romney. A tyrant.

http://www.politicalforum.com/political-opinions-beliefs/271811-50-major-similarities-between-obama-romney.html

I enjoy this.  It's sad that despite being so similar, both parties are increasingly more divided as time goes on over trivial issues (ex. abortion), and the real important issues go unnoticed (ex. global economies all use fiat currency). 

[keyboardlover]

The parties are similar only in how evil they both are. The differences are shades of gray.

[metalliqaz]

The parties are similar only in how evil they both are. The differences are shades of gray.

I talk to people, call themselves "conservative"
I say "You're not conservative.  REAL conservatives go around throwing acid in the faces of girls who try to get an education, and beheading people who listen to rock music in their cars.

Here... shades of gray, like you said.

[Lanx]

The parties are similar only in how evil they both are. The differences are shades of gray.

I talk to people, call themselves "conservative"
I say "You're not conservative.  REAL conservatives go around throwing acid in the faces of girls who try to get an education, and beheading people who listen to rock music in their cars.

Here... shades of gray, like you said.

ppl who call themselves one thing
i'm a conservative
i'm a liberal

are stupid sheep.

no human is just "one" thing, it's an improbability to be all conservative or liberal you can say you "lean" towards being a conservative or a liberal, but to be entirely one thing, is, just like you said to be those types of animals that throw acid and kill raped virgins, or eat veggies and smell bad.

[keyboardlover]

Because people feel like they need to belong to some kind of club/team or something. And then they STILL support THEIR team even though they suck. Even though their team supports poverty and murder! Goooooooo Team!

[keyboardlover]

[SmallFry]

I wonder of all sorts of crap happened like this during the pre-internet presidents, but we never heard about it because of the lack of said World Wide Web.

[keyboardlover]

I wonder of all sorts of crap happened like this during the pre-internet presidents, but we never heard about it because of the lack of said World Wide Web.

Winners write the history books!

[SmallFry]

Not with the internet around, somebody does something vain and the whole world notices overnight. The winners write the books, but the losers are picking up steam.

[keyboardlover]

Speaking of steam...



ABC - Always Bull Crap
CBS - Complete Bull Sh*t
CNN - Certainly Not News
MSNBC - Might Still be Nothing But Crap
AP - All Propaganda
NPR - Neatly Packaged Rhetoric
CBC - Canadian Brainwashing Castration
CTV - Canadian Truth Varnishing
FBC (now FOX) - False Baseless Content
BBC - Better Bull Crap

[tjcaustin]

Speaking of steam...

Show Image

ABC - Always Bull Crap
CBS - Complete Bull Sh*t
CNN - Certainly Not News
MSNBC - Might Still be Nothing But Crap
AP - All Propaganda
NPR - Neatly Packaged Rhetoric
CBC - Canadian Brainwashing Castration
CTV - Canadian Truth Varnishing

Show Image

Yes because children were the targets.  Not people that use children as meatshields while they zealously sacrifice their own lives in the name of their religion.  (This is no strike against Muslims or religion in general)

I note the lack of a certain spin zone, but there's not really a poo based name for them.

[keyboardlover]

Yes because children were the targets.  Not people that use children as meatshields while they zealously sacrifice their own lives in the name of their religion.  (This is no strike against Muslims or religion in general)

I note the lack of a certain spin zone, but there's not really a poo based name for them.

Put it this way: if you think the actual use of the drones is for a legitimate reason, you need to turn off your television. Rape...kidnapping...murder. It's all ok, so long as the government is doing it.

Edit: I'm thinking you probably mean Fox - yea, couldn't come up with a good acronym for them
But they definitely suck hard!

[Lanx]

i never understood why ppl are against drone? to me it's the only logical evolution of war, right now we have have gamers who have 90% the reflexes or even surpass miltary trained fighter pilots, and many of these gamers have grown up with a gamepad in hand. Why not just kill ppl from afar?

plus kids and civilian casualties happen in any war torn conflict, isn't that called collateral damage?

[keyboardlover]

Hey, why not just not kill people in the first place? And fund it with money stolen from citizens of a nation at gunpoint?

Don't legitimize tyranny dude. STAHP!

[clickclack]

Speaking of steam...

ABC - Always Bull Crap
CBS - Complete Bull Sh*t
CNN - Certainly Not News
MSNBC - Might Still be Nothing But Crap
AP - All Propaganda
NPR - Neatly Packaged Rhetoric
CBC - Canadian Brainwashing Castration
CTV - Canadian Truth Varnishing

Ooops! looks like your fogot one-
FBC (now FOX) False Baseless Content

Unless you wanna talk about falsifying others xeroxes.  lol

[keyboardlover]

^ Nice one!

[Lanx]

how are drone attacks tyranny? what's the difference between sending in seal team 6 vs. unmanned drone from call of duty.

[keyboardlover]

There isn't one

[tjcaustin]

Yes because children were the targets.  Not people that use children as meatshields while they zealously sacrifice their own lives in the name of their religion.  (This is no strike against Muslims or religion in general)

I note the lack of a certain spin zone, but there's not really a poo based name for them.

Put it this way: if you think the actual use of the drones is for a legitimate reason, you need to turn off your television. Rape...kidnapping...murder. It's all ok, so long as the government is doing it.

Edit: I'm thinking you probably mean Fox - yea, couldn't come up with a good acronym for them
But they definitely suck hard!

Oh, you'll notice I don't say I'm for these endless wars for undefinable terms like "speading democracy", but that picture struck me wrong is all.

I tire of thinking that I'll have my adult life in the background of armed conflict.

[tauburn]

for each drone strike there are about 40 innocent causalities for every alleged terrorist

[metalliqaz]

[citation needed]

[Lanx]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/opinion/pakistan-drone-attacks-akbar/index.html

TLDR: scummy lawyer (thats me saying he's scummy, just cuz he's a lawyer, i mean ugh lawyers) tries to sue the CIA for deaths.

that's just one drone attack, i didn't find other articles citing other crazy drones that go rampant.

again drone attacks are awesome, it's awesome technology that kills bad guys from afar!, and if a few innocent lives get lost, well that's the cost of war isn't it? blame the war, not the weapon, heck stray bullets kill ppl too and i'm sure a too sharp knife is responsible for some death, ppl who don't like drone attacks are silly, it's an implement of war and destruction, just like the atomic bombs that crippled two cities in japan, OH NO nuclear technology is bad! Japan will.
1. create Godzilla and mock America, tho they almost always have Godzilla rise up and attack Japan over and over again, like they want and deserve more punishment.
2. they will Make 42 nuclear power plants! cuz you know nuclear power is bad, never use it (as of now 40 are turned off cuz of the 2011 disaster)

[keyboardlover]

You obviously haven't read 1984, have you?

If you think that technology which murders people is "awesome", you're exactly the type of person which proves the fact that government is such a very, very dangerous thing. When people are good you don't need government; when people are evil or ambivalent you don't dare institute one.

Again, I say, what about just NOT murdering people?

[funkymeeba]

Again, I say, what about just NOT murdering people?

Seriously! All the bull**** we do to try to "fix" the Middle East just gives the "terrorists" more reason to **** our **** up. I'm sick of it. We need to focus on improving our **** here before we go meddling with everyone else.

[keyboardlover]

Dude, WHO is the terrorist anyway? It's the one who creates terror.

[microsoft windows]

I just think we should blow up the whole Middle East and turn it into an international garbage dump. There, problem solved!

[keyboardlover]

I just think we should blow up the whole Middle East and turn it into an international garbage dump. There, problem solved!

And this attitude is just another example of why people shouldn't dare create government. Government is a legitimization of evil.

[Malphas]

Yeah, but take a trip to the Durand Line or Somalia and see how great the alternative is. Shouldn't you be past the contrarian teenager level of half-baked ideology by your age? Although Lanx is far worse, admittedly, who's ideology seems to be based on G.I. Joe cartoons and Reagan-era action moves.