Computer upgrade advice! From an X6 1055T/HD5770 to ...?

[Paranoid]

Heyhey dear gh-ers,

It's been about two or three years since my last computer build and the bug is starting to itch again so I'm looking for an upgrade.
Main use is 3D modeling, rendering, photoshop and some light gaming (pc and dolphin emulator).

My current parts that are ready for replacement:
- AMD Phenom II X6 1055T
- Sapphire Radeon HD5770 1Gb
- Kingston HyperX 4Gb 1600Mhz (KHX1600C8D3T1K2/4GX)
- Asrock 870 Extreme3 motherboard
- Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B (since it probably won't be compatible with newer sockets anymore)

Rest of the computer:
- Fractal Design Define R3 case
- A bunch of Fractal fans
- Two regular hard disks and one SSD.
- Some kind of DVD player
- Antec TruePower New TP-650 power supply

Requirements:
- Easily overclockable for rendering/gaming/emulating purposes. Both CPU and Mobo should easily be able to support this.
- Graphics card should be decent enough for my requirements. I'm not an extreme gamer, but I like better Wii graphics and I might play some newer games as well when I have some time again. It probably can't hurt the rendering or modeling process either.
- Minimum 8Gb of RAM. I don't know what speed, brand or configuration though (not my field of expertise).

Little bit of explanation:
I'm currently using AMD parts, but I probably would like to go back to Intel and Nvidia. Intel for the simple reason that it's powerful, easily overclockable and not so power hungry. The question of cores vs threads, I looked into it and the Intel processors still outmatch the 8-cores of AMD in 3Dsmax, probably even more with some overclocking.
It's hard to tell these days what to get because there is a buttload of stuff available.

So like I said it should be easily overclockable for that little bit of extra juice. Unfortunately the cooler probably won't be compatible with the newer sockets so I would need a replacement for that as well. Preferably one that doesn't cover up some my RAM slots as the scythe mugen now does.
I would prefer a board that's not from Asrock, to have some variety.

Graphics card wise I have no clue.. I think anything these days would be better than my HD5770, which I'm not really unsatisfied with. I've read that the Geforce 650-660-670 series are quite good, although the 670 series might be a bit out of my price range.

Talking about pricing, the total I would like to spend is as little as possible of course. But to put a number on it, I have 800 euro in my mind (about a 1000 dollar). The lower the better of course, but I do like quality components that will last for years. So maybe I'll find a good deal here or there, or maybe even something second hand or barely used.
Do also keep in mind that I don't live in the US so I can't buy all the stuff you guys can get there ^^

So I'd like your opinion if  you have one! And thanks in advance for the advice

[Paranoid]

After some looking around this morning (I actually wrote up this post yesterday ) I found some stuff:
- CPU: Intel i7 3770k - Seems powerful and easily overclockable, although a bit pricy maybe.
- Motherboard: Asus sabertooth Z77 - stumbled upon it, looks good at first sight, good cooling and features and looks cool. Also not the cheapest of course
- RAM I have no clue yet. 8Gb or 16Gb, 4Gb or 8Gb modules, 1600mhz or 1866mhz, ... again, not my area of expertise ^^ I don't know if it really matters that much to me.
- Graphics card I haven't looked into yet. Suggestions are welcome.
- CPU cooler, same comment.

*edit:
for the graphics card I'm looking at the GTX650/650Ti or the GTX660/660Ti. Still have to look at the differences between them. The 670 is too expensive for me.

[Paranoid]

After some research I think the choice is now between the MSI N660Ti PE 2GD5/OC and the ASUS GTX660 TI-DC2T-2GD5. The favor goes to the MSI because it's cheaper. The most quiet one of course has the preference but opinions have been divided on this matter. Next up is ram and cooler!
Opinions about the main board and other components are welcome

[Tym]

If you are not to bothered about the GPU i have the Radeon 6870 and nothing bad to say about it, can play all games on high (if not ultra) and its £100 (about 130 Euro) on ebay and other places. But just a suggestion. I cant help you out with recommendations otherwise as I just built my PC and that is all. Goodluck!

[bavman]

I think I'd definetly go with the i7 if your doing 3d modeling because you'll benefit from the extra threads  the i7 offers compared to the i5.

Maybe look into asrock mobos too if you need something cheaper. They're usually cheaper than most mobos while offering all the bells and whistles.

As for the GPU, definitely the 7950 for gaming, amd is ahead of nvidia in the performance race and they then to be cheaper too. The 7950 should still be within the $300 range, if you need a cheaper one though then go for the 7870. When it comes to your 3d stuff though, I'm not sure which GPUs perform better so thats somethign you might want to look into.

As for memory I'd get at least 8gb 1600mhz, its fairly cheap. Get a 2x4gb kit and if you need more ram just buy another kit.

I've always recommended the 212+ or 212evo, but they've been out for such a long time, im not sure if they're relevant anymore.

[Paranoid]

Thanks for the feedback guys

The i7 is chosen then. For ram I choose Corsair Vengeance, 2x4Gb, 1600Mhz, low-profile, like you mentioned bavman
Motherboard is still open for debate. I'd like to try something different than the Asrock though, the Sabertooth appeals to me with the convenient fan connections/regulation and overall temperature monitoring and pcb cooling. And yeah of course the looks as well, even though I won't see it

From what I've seen in reviews most prefer the nvidia 660 over amd 7950/7870. I have no clue why though. At work we use 5000 and 6000 quadro series, but that's another thing
I found the MSI N660Ti PE 2GD5/OC quite interesting. Performs well, quiet and lowest price in the GTX660Ti range. But I'll have to take a look at the AMD side as well.

Cooler wise, I've seen that the 212+ was recommended for quite some time. Also the H50 to H100 series from Corsair seem pretty good, but pretty expensive and I have never used a system like that before. I could also go for the Scythe Mugen again, the Mugen 3. The only downside is that I found it a bit too huge because it blocked two of my ram ports. Cooling and silence wise it was excellent.

So the things so far:
- i7 3770k - fixed
- Asus sabertooth Z77 - debatable
- 2x4Gb Corsair vengeance - fixed
- Msi GTX660Ti OC - debatable
- Cooler - no clue

[bavman]

Here's a quick overview of several benchmarks run by toms:


The 660 pulls ahead of the 7950 sometimes, but most time, the 7950 is on top

I also love samsung ram: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electronics-Extreme-MV-3V4G3D-US/dp/B00592002W
It overclocks like a champ and its super low profile so even if you get the scythe cooler you had before, you ram will still fit even it the cooler hoovers over the slots

[Paranoid]

Damn, that IS low profile! But double the price
Seems the 7970 does perform quite well, but after looking at the price, it's a bit out of my price range. The 7950 and 7870 are more around the 660 Ti price range, depending on which brand and edition you choose. I'll have to take a look at those later

[IvanIvanovich]

My advice is wait until summer when Haswell release before platform upgrade. If you break up buying maybe you get 670 now, and will have more money saved up again in few more month for the cpu, memory and motherboard. You should be able to carry the rest of parts forward.
If not 670 then stay with amd and go for 7870 or better. Other nvidia card below they crippled too much by using lower bit memory interface. But then only these are worth it if you can offload to gpu with cuda or openCL with your design and render softwares.

[Paranoid]

also a valid point.. It's not that the upgrade is urgent. I'll have to do some more research then.
But then again, I can always keep on delaying. That's the problem with computers. Won't there be a better graphics cards out then as well? Or won't this one be cheaper by then?

*Seems the Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B does support 1155! Missed that in the description

[IvanIvanovich]

No, buying GPU is safe for now. Both camps confirmed there won't be any more major gpu release until 2014. In regard to Haswell either it will turn out to be worth waiting for, or it should drop the prices of Ivy parts at the least.

[Jocelyn]

My advice is wait until summer when Haswell release before platform upgrade.

This this this this this^

[Leslieann]

- Asus sabertooth Z77 - debatable
- 2x4Gb Corsair vengeance - fixed
- Cooler - no clue

I would swap the board, personally, it's overpriced. Unless there is something on it that you absolutely need, you can get something just as good for quite a bit less.

Waiting for the new platform won't hurt either, but you can jump on the other parts now and start getting some benefits.



Also, buy twice as much memory, it's cheap right now but memory prices have been going up. Best to get it now while still relatively cheap. $40 now can save you twice that later if prices continue to rise and will at most only cost you a little if it drops back to previous levels. Type isn't that important (most of the chips come from only a few manufacturers), and you don't necessarily need the fastest. Just get a good speed and brand like you have.

As for cooler...
Personally, I like the All In One watercoolers such as Corsair.
Yes, towers are just as effective, however the watercoolers let you chose where to dump the heat (outside the box), they leave everything a lot more exposed and they don't interfere with memory coolers. Reaching in to disconnect a cable or swap memory is a lot easier when you aren't trying to squeeze your hand past the cooling tower. This is especially helpful on a smaller case. It used to be that watercooling was more difficult on MATX because you needed room for everything, that isn't the case anymore. These new systems are more compact and easier to work with than even the air cooled towers.

[IvanIvanovich]

Those are excellent points about the cooler. Though I haven't tried any of the closed loop stuff as I have 'proper' water set up they definitely have many advantage over the big clunky air coolers that block ram and even pci-e slots sometimes. Especially now if you decided to go ITX which are nice if you don't need a lot of expansion cards to have a nice compact system. As for memory... can the AMD system use 1.5v? If so you could certainly buy that now and carry it forward to the new build too later. Any 2x8GB 1600mhz CL8 from a good brand should be just fine.

[Leslieann]

Those are excellent points about the cooler. Though I haven't tried any of the closed loop stuff as I have 'proper' water set up they definitely have many advantage over the big clunky air coolers that block ram and even pci-e slots sometimes. Especially now if you decided to go ITX which are nice if you don't need a lot of expansion cards to have a nice compact system.

I love full on custom watercooling, I really do, but in real world use, those all in ones are really fantastic.

Full on proper watercooling looks and works great, but it needs a lot more room, maintenance, and in most cases doesn't actually cool much better. It's also FAR more expensive and with more connections, comes an increase in risk.  Again, I love it and won't knock anyone with it, it's just not necessary in most cases anymore. On the other hand, how many of us really need a $300+ keyboard? 

[noisyturtle]

A bit off topic, but I recently upgraded my cpu from an i5 2500k to an i7 3770 and am finding it actually preforms slower than the i5 in many cases. Any reason to why this is? Is the difference between Sandy bridge and Ivy bridge that bad?

[Paranoid]

I guess I'll wait a bit then for the Haswell release I've read that there could be some problems with the USB3.0 ports when coming out of sleep, but I guess it's too early to tell.

So I guess I could look for a graphics card and some ram already then. Any idea if the Haswell will have support for higher speed ram? The i7 now only supports up to 1600mhz, unless I read it wrong. AMD can use 1.5V
Is there actually a performance difference if you get 4x4gb or 2x8gb ram? A long time ago I know there was some discussion about this. But then I mean a real long time ago

Cooling and motherboard wise it will be too early to tell then. The Corsair series do look interesting regarding space saving in the case. I have a mid-tower at the moment. The Fractal R3, but mini itx cases look pretty neet as well. Personally I don't really care because this one already looks really minimal as I like it. A mini ITX case would mean I have to put on my desk though.
Pure watercooling is not for me, too much maintenance and expensivooo

On the other hand, how many of us really need a $300+ keyboard? 

True ^^

[IvanIvanovich]

Performance difference, no not really, maybe in some cases of extreme overclock it is more stable with only 2 dimm. But getting a 2x8GB kit leave room for another pair of sticks in case you ever decide you need more, which is my logic.
As far as what is known now, 1600 is official, and higher will only be support by overclock again. Personally if you want to drop more money on faster ram, get lower lower latency before more mhz.

[Leslieann]

A bit off topic, but I recently upgraded my cpu from an i5 2500k to an i7 3770 and am finding it actually preforms slower than the i5 in many cases. Any reason to why this is? Is the difference between Sandy bridge and Ivy bridge that bad?

It could be anything from bad drivers to something you simply installed different or even a simple software update.

Faster on paper doesn't always translate to real world performance, this is why I didn't upgrade my 2600K to the new series.
The truth is, processors aren't the bottleneck on computers and haven't for several years. Unless you are doing something very cpu intensive, you could double your processor speed and not see massive real world gains.

The bottleneck is hard drives.
Get you a sata3 ssd, and watch it come alive.

Performance difference, no not really, maybe in some cases of extreme overclock it is more stable with only 2 dimm. But getting a 2x8GB kit leave room for another pair of sticks in case you ever decide you need more, which is my logic.
As far as what is known now, 1600 is official, and higher will only be support by overclock again. Personally if you want to drop more money on faster ram, get lower lower latency before more mhz.

Many boards choke on 4 sticks, it's a problem with power regulation, my experience has been to expect about 10% drop in overclock if you go with 4 dimms on most boards. It may be overcome by over-volting, sometimes, not always.

I agree, lower latency before exceeding 1600, tests bear this out. I also prefer more memory rather than faster, although these days with ram prices what they are, more isn't a problem.

[ApocalypseMaow]

That MSI gtx 660ti is whisper quiet and runs cool (55c or so). I sold mine and now contemplating the 690 *sigh

[absyrd]

That MSI gtx 660ti is whisper quiet and runs cool (55c or so). I sold mine and now contemplating the 690 *sigh

Good to know. I'm still running a 5770, too, that is completely silent to me, and I've been looking for an equally quiet upgrade. I no longer frequent PC forums so it hasn't been as easy to make a decision.

[IPT]

the asus DirectCU coolers are considered some of the most quiet cooling for the $$
only "quieter" cooling will be if you put them under waterblocks.

OP, the decision between AMD & Nvidia currently is the computing power.
Nvidia purposely limits the computing power of their current 600 series GPUs, making people who need computing power having to buy their Quadro line of cards.

The GTX 600 series is great as a pure gaming GPU, but it is not the best for tasks that require GPU Computing.
AMD's 7000 series outshines the GTX 600 series in that endeavor.

Also when you get to multi screen gaming, AMD's 7000 series also pulls ahead of the GTX 600 series, again i would think because of the computing power.

**Disclaimer** I myself went from 2x HD 7950 to 2x GTX 670s, so im not being a "Fanboy" of AMD or anything lol.

[Paranoid]

So much advice, but still not ready for a decision right now I'll focus on RAM and a graphics card. For RAM it's pretty easy, just pick one ^^ It will be 2x8Gb in whatever brand I can find and like. I'll probably buy a Corsair Hydro series CPU cooler so RAM height doesn't matter anymore I haven't decided if I'll keep my current case or build a MiniITX computer though Seems fun but then I have to buy and sell more stuff ^^

For graphics cards so far the decision is between the GTX 670 and the HD 7970. A bit more pricy than I had in mind initially but what the hell, why not go for performance and endulge my greedy self. Unless I really don't need it and can seem some money. The ASUS board seem to have the best reviews in silence and performance. But of course they also have difference with the normal models and TOP models and what else you have..
From what I've read, each version is about equally matched in games. As far as GPU performance, I don't have any experience in what programs actually use it. I've read some articles about it and I do know the FirePro and the Quadro are excellent for GPU computing, but that's completely out of the question.
Basically for rendering purposes I don't think it really matters, since it's mostly CPU and I would want to overclock that anyway. I guess the GPU will only matter in the viewport and for raytracing previews and stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Hardcore gaming won't be happening that much. I'm kind of outgrowing it, and I simply don't have the time for it at the moment except for Zelda in full HD on the Dolphin Emulator ^^
I can however buy a ASUS HD 7970 DC2 3GB for about €300 second hand. Don't know if that helps make a decision or not?
Or where are there hardcore definitive answer for not only gaming performance like in most reviews?
**It seems though that CUDA is favored for use in Photoshop and 3dsmax, so for now my preference goes to Nvidia

I will postpone the CPU and Motherboard and Cooler for the summer then. Although the main improvement for Haswell seems better performance in on-board (or on-chip if you like) graphics. But since I'm using a GPU that doesn't really matter after all. Beh!
I'm spending too much money at the moment anyways Bought myself a second hand Audioengine A2 and ordered me a D1 DAC ^^ (excited for my ears!) and we also bought a new camera. Byebye money!

[IvanIvanovich]

When building a new system, I usually roll my old one down to some other purpose like fileserver. Though sometimes maybe that is overkill hardware wise so I might sell the CPU and get something less power hungry and cooler running for the old motherboard. It might be something to consider.
As far as Haswell, there will be process refinement so there will probably be at least 10% performance bump, some new instruction sets are being introduced, better power saving and some other things. Also new chipsets which should have some improvement and new features. I believe there will now be on chip native usb3, and thunderbolt as part of that. Whether those features have any relevance to you or not...

GPU choice is a tougher one for you, and since you are primarily going to be using it for compute power and not gaming the best choice may not be so obvious. I don't use them that way really so I can't be that helpful there. It might be best to look on some of the 3D/animation related forums for some advice there.

[Throne]

the asus DirectCU coolers are considered some of the most quiet cooling for the $$
only "quieter" cooling will be if you put them under waterblocks.

I went the directCU route for my 660ti when I swapped from my 6970 - very happy with it, lot quieter than the stock fans I am used to