How are you liking your ErgoDox?

[Glod]

So, the number of people who have completed their ErgoDox is starting to grow a little bit. I'm sure it will be a while until the 200+ sold in round 1 are built and roiund 2 is live now but for those who have assembled it let's talk about the finished product:

How are you liking your ErgoDox?
Pros? Cons? Learning Issues?
Willing to share pictures or your layout?

--

I wanted to separate this discussion from the main making stuff together! forum thread because any discussion of the ergodox--reviews, pictures, cheers, jeers, diy etc--was taking place in a single thread! hell, the phantom has at least 3 i know of. would be cooler to leave the diy stuff in the making stuff together! forum and talk about the finished product.  hope this isn't going into the un-replied topic abyss, most likely it will. 

[Halverson]

Quite simply:
Qwerty-kinesis layout
Linear grey switches, awesome!
Blank black uniform profile caps

Love the look of it, and the feeling of completing a project from nothing.

As for usage, damn near impossible for me. Going to really have to train myself for this one.

[hashbaz]

It looks great in its box, sitting there on my desk.

[Glod]

Didnt put my thoughts in my own thread lol

I am currently enjoying mine but i'm having trouble using a keyboard without a staggered layout. I'm really trying to make this the only keyboard i use except when i travel where i plan to use the GH60 or use my poker. i may end up selling stuff because of this.

Pros so far
- As a user of the freestyle for 3 years, its great to go back to a split keyboard but this time with mechanical keys and a programable layout. I actually came to geekhack because i was ditching my freestyle for higher quality topre and mechanical keyboards, 8 months later i realize i missed the split design but hated the freestyle's layout, rubber domes, design, etc (pretty, much everything about it except the split design)
- i love how you can just change out the 3.5 cable if you want to adjust the separation, the Freestyle didn't have a replaceable center cable and the length was fixed; i prefer a large separation most of the time
- endlessly programmable
- easy to assemble, at least for me, the smd diodes were awesome
- yet another place for me to put novelty keycaps on

Cons so far
- Aluminium case issues (roughness, bad cut)
- Non-staggered key layout is a bit harder to learn than i thought it would be
- Heavy, Bulky, and not easy to travel with, i don't see myself putting this in my laptop bag and going through a airport with this thing, i wonder if it looks like a bomb in the xray.



Here is my layout

[Glod]

It looks great in its box, sitting there on my desk.

youz makes me sad sir

[Halverson]

Oh I forgot to say, I went with the acrylic case. Glad I did, hear too many issues with aluminum.
Although a full hand aluminum would probably feel nice and cool.

[Larken]

Absolutely loving mine. Full hand acrylic, base vinyled white. Ergoclears variable weighted, with browns for side and thumb clusters.


switch layout

pros: minimal finger movement. noticeable less strain on my wrists after long hours. really helps with workin glong hours on the keyboard.

cons: not enough buttons for symbols. no room for a proper arrow cluster on layer 0 without sacrificing a button. even with a fullhand, I find the wrist rest inadequate. Pretty hard to find something perfectly suitable for this keyboard, and I'd already ruined one grifiti rest I had trying to cut it down to fit.

learning issues: I went cold turkey on my ergodox, muscle memory kicked in at about the third day. I'm on my 6th or 7th now and it feels pretty natural to be typing on the matrix layout. (I was having similar problems on the first few days on a non-staggered layout). Interestingly, I tried going back to a staggered layout for a few minutes and found myself hitting the wrong keys. Win some, lose some, I guess.

Posted this in the other thread already, but here's it again:



Layout:






I know it looks weird to have the function buttons on layer 0, but those were my preset buttons for a few windows actions. I found that making those center buttons be used as 'layer pushes' a bad choice, as I still hit those buttons accidentally when reaching for that bhy buttons that doesn't exist on that side of the ergodox, and I didn't want to deal with having to change layers on accident.

layer 3 is a random layer I created for gaming purposes only - everything is the same except for shifting the common buttons from the right hand over to the left - i (inventory), m - map etc. More importantly was the spacebar.

I have another classic case ergox dox coming in which I plan to carry around to use if needed. The weight aside, the size is extremely portable to tote around in a backpack or a messenger.

[Glod]

a gaming layer! why didnt i think about that? omg

man i love how this thing is so easily programmable. i went with the layout that i felt was easiest to transition to coming from so much use of a normal design qwerty. would love to see more layouts from people in this thread as the number of ergodox grows

on the portability side i didn't find it as portable. maybe i am just not putting it in my laptop bag proper. i'm also afraid it may cause some extra time at airport security lol.

[Glod]

it is amazing how quickly i am learning to use this thing. Just throw yourself into a situation where you have to do a lot of typing and it speeds up learning. Its worth it.

i just plugged in my poker and tried to type on it and i almost couldn't do it, switching between matrix and staggered is seemingly impossible.

that leaves me with keyboards i may never type on again. Not going to go as far as to cancel my GH60 order but it is looking less likely I will have a regular rotation anymore and i'll be more of a "collector"

[mikelanding]

I yet to get mine. It is still assemble by someone. For those who have trouble getting use to the new matrix layout, you might want to follow few lessons from this Kinesis Training Material. It will help you to speed up the new layout very fast.
Link: http://www.micwil.com/images/additional_resources/training_materials_for_contoured_keyboards.pdf

[Larken]

I felt the same, once I got used to the matrix layout. The ergodox is my favorite board now, even though there's still some issues to iron out with regards to mods.

Another benefit is that it keeps me off the Topre train for now - tempting as it may be to try 30g Topres, I'm not going to buy another board without a matrix + split layout. (I know there's the utron, but man, the price is killer)

The longer you keep going in one session, generally diminishing returns would set in for the training of muscle memory. My experience with adapting to the ergodox is that I'd work on it for 2-3 hours, then go take a break, or even a short nap. I literally woke up on the third day and suddenly realized I wasn't mis-striking the keys I was the previous night before. Didn't feel gradual, it just happened. Guess my hands and brain is rewired for the matrix layout now.

I was considering getting a GH60, but I figured I'd never use that now I have my ergodox. Programmable keyboards are awesome.

[wiredPANDA]

It looks great in its box, sitting there on my desk.

Sadly, that's where I'm at now, too.  I have another kit off for assembly.

Just sitting here plotting out my layer layouts.  And Larken with the gaming layout --- +1.

[zoolzoo]

Looks like a pain in the ass.

[Glod]

Looks like a pain in the ass.

to build or to use?

haters gonna hate

[mashby]

I figured this would be something I might try out down the road in a year, or two, but seeing the new gb on MassDrop has me sorely tempted.

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences thus far. I'm curious though, how hard has it been to get key caps for this board?

[Glod]

well the mass drop round 1 offered blank DSA profile pbt caps. dsa to me is the way to go but people complained without even trying them and the round 2 offers DCS (SP Profile) instead, these are blanks as well. the SP profile thing has to do with in my opinion cosmetics and not what profile is best for it.

as you have seen on my flickr I have the dsa caps on and then for the alpha-numeric i threw on some random OEM profile caps i have because i cant do all blanks, i can remember the modifiers but my hand starts to forget where it is unless i peak once in awhile. only problem is that the profiles are off so it doesnt look clean

the coolest thing is the DSA Retro set from Sam/Ron and Matteo offered some blanks to go over the misc 2x and 1.5 caps so the DSA retro kit i have coming is going on my ergodox, it will be a full set

TJ is planning a DSA sale this summer that will most likely also offer the ergodox-needed stuff

[Jagriff]

well the mass drop round 1 offered blank DSA profile pbt caps. dsa to me is the way to go but people complained without even trying them and the round 2 offers DCS (SP Profile) instead, these are blanks as well. the SP profile thing has to do with in my opinion cosmetics and not what profile is best for it.

It isn't instead. You can buy DSA and/or DCS this time.

[oneproduct]

The thumb cluster being somewhat far to reach makes me prefer my Kinesis for the moment. When soldering it I messed up one key, so waiting to fix that before I really dive into it though. I also don't have a proper set of keycaps for it, so everything is kind of the wrong profile. I'll need to wait for the flat spherical groupbuy with the commodore colored keys to arrive.

[Glod]

well the mass drop round 1 offered blank DSA profile pbt caps. dsa to me is the way to go but people complained without even trying them and the round 2 offers DCS (SP Profile) instead, these are blanks as well. the SP profile thing has to do with in my opinion cosmetics and not what profile is best for it.

It isn't instead. You can buy DSA and/or DCS this time.

negative

https://www.massdrop.com/buy

just dcs

i stand ****ing corrected, its in the options when you buy the ergodox

[haskellelephant]

Its amazing! All I ever dreamed it would be and then some! Here are some of the pictures from the unboxing: http://imgur.com/a/qSYpX

[Glod]

they boxed it beautifully i must say, hats off to massdrop!

Got to say im still getting use to the non-staggered matrix layout, was typing only 20wpm monday up to 45 today, hopefuly i get up past 70 like i am normally with the staggered (yeah yeah i know we got some beast typers that are much better than me up in geekhack )

[bisl]

Here's mine: http://i.imgur.com/voUbYgI.jpg

I've been most excited about columnar keys since I heard about the ergodox, but in practice I made a strange realization: the staggerered layout of normal boards, along with the couple of cheater habits I learned along the way, allowed me to type all this time with my hands sort of naturally tented despite laying flat (well, on wrist rests). Now, with flat ergodox, and columnar keys, my fingers don't follow the tracks laid out by the columns unless I have my hands (or the boards) tented as well.

Moreover, when I try to use it when it's flat, I get some nasty tendon snapping in my right wrist, which has a history of threatening me with RSI. Thankfully, I have some extras of these tiny wrist rests that I use, so I'm using them to tent while I figure out a more permanent solution.

Overall though, I love the board. I could only be happier if I'd already finished lubing my switches by now, as they feel kind of scratchy at the moment. These might have been from before  Cherry was releasing switches into the wild already lubricated perhaps.

[Larken]

how to tent the ergodox is definitely the priority issue for me now. The way I have it set up still isn't ideal yet, but short of constructing some sort of proper support frame, I can't get the angle I want. cardboard boxes doesn't cut it.

[Glod]

working on creating a slope as well, trying to take the parts from my kinesis freestyle to make a tent
though if i add a very large slope like i want it makes me regret not getting the full hand

[r3dx]

I finally got mine together last night and I'm using it at work today. So far I'm liking it, I'll do a proper write up with some pictures when I get home tonight. I still want to go back and lube my switches. I did one already just to see how it felt and there is a noticeable difference.

[davkol]

Got mine in the mail today, but I'm afraid I won't be able to assemble it for another month. Still trying to decide what switches I should use... Reds? Clears? Ergo clears? Maybe reds on one hand, and weighted clears on the other one, lol.

[r3dx]

Not sure if you know, but the switch tops on the ErgoDox can be opened and the parts can be swapped out. So if you do decide to change your mind you just need to switch out the parts.

Honestly, I'm using Clears right now and I'm loving them, although I'm really tempted to buy new springs to make them into ErgoClears. I think for now I'm just going to lube them until I can find a good source for springs.

[davkol]

I know that, but messing with it requires more time. The problem is that I like both reds and ergo clears equally. Maybe I should get another ergodox, and rotate them.

[r3dx]

Yeah, true. I was kind of thinking the same thing also but I'm still on the fence cause I'm cheap and running out of keyboard storage space. 

[Larken]

I know that, but messing with it requires more time. The problem is that I like both reds and ergo clears equally. Maybe I should get another ergodox, and rotate them.

my personal observations are that the thumb buttons tend to jam a little on the way up with ergoclears. ended up using a mix of browns and reds to achieve smoother action. love the ergoclears on the alphanumeric keys, but they feel off on the other keys.

[r3dx]

Larken, just out of curiosity, is it possible the jamming is caused by the case and not the switch itself. I was having the same problem with the thumb keys getting stuck but it was caused by poor fitment of the case. I ended up just taking a Dremel to the case and slowly grinding some of the case to allow for room for the key cap. I think I'm going to have to go back and grind some more off cause it still happens sometimes.

[Larken]

not for my case, though I know what you're referring to. the arcylic case for mine fits really well, and the only thing I had to do to get it to fit was to file a little bit of the pcb to get it to fit layer 4.

I'm referring to the ergoclear characteristics, as I saw you and davkol had interest to go for ergoclears, so figured I'll give a heads up. Its fine if you strike a key, but if you push, and hold down on the button, the upstroke becomes a little bit 'jammed' or 'stuck' for lack of a better word. I find it a little off-putting for certain keys like ctrl, alt, where either you have to hold the button, or space, bkspace, where its common to hit the key rapidly in succession.

Switching these out to brown stems (space and bkspace and arrow keys) and the ctrl alt modifiers (see the layout I posted earlier in an earlier post),  made the problem go away.

Keep in mind that I did lube my switches, but the springs used were 55g, so that's a factor. It's not a problem if I swap in 62g springs however. But when I thought about it, I figured I didn't really need the tactility for space and bkspace anyway, so those brown stems on my thumb clusters feel right after days after testing. (if you see my original picture, it was a tactile grey stem with a 62g spring where the spacebar is).

[davkol]

I know that, but messing with it requires more time. The problem is that I like both reds and ergo clears equally. Maybe I should get another ergodox, and rotate them.

my personal observations are that the thumb buttons tend to jam a little on the way up with ergoclears. ended up using a mix of browns and reds to achieve smoother action. love the ergoclears on the alphanumeric keys, but they feel off on the other keys.

Is it the same kind of jamming as with too light springs in clears in general? I have Korean 62g springs.

[r3dx]

Thanks for clearing that up Larken. I'll keep that in mind if/when I switch out my springs. I've also heard that Clears have that type of problem with too light of springs but personally, I don't have much experience with them.

[Glod]

Reds are working out pretty well for me, kind of rolled the dice on using reds instead of brown that i am used to. Tried lubing some reds the other day and they seem pretty fantastic so i am going to lube and sticker mine this weekend

4th work day using it the whole day, ive added a larger slope/tent




However i seem to be making more mistakes now, got to keep learning, it does make my hands hurt less for sure with it like this.l

[Glod]

Happy to see some new people getting their ergodox assembled, i wonder if they will share their experiences

last night i made some modifications to my ergodox





- White Vinyl stickers from techkeys
- White on black double shot from SP (used to be on my poker)
- Lubed Red Switches (103/205 Mix with teflon spring lube)
- Replaced aluminum top from un-built ergodox and replaced with the correct matching acrylic top (to shed weight)
- added Jdcarpe style geekhack badge
- VIP3 kit from Kenesis Freestyle 1
- Wasd o-rings

The lubed red switches are like my new favorite thing, holy **** awesome

[seferphier]

I finally made completed my Ergodox! Special thanks to r3dx, larken, Glod for helping me out my soldering problems. Massdrop's service has been pretty good as well. i'm pretty satisfied, despite all the flaming comments on geekhack before the groupbuy is complete. What you guys feel about Massdrop?

I made all the mistakes a soldering newbie can make but the PCB was very forgiving and I managed to get all the keys working. I would still recommend this project to a beginner but they should watch some videos in soldering SMDs. Soldering SMDs is the first step in the process and also the hardest. Massdrop should make an extra page to introduce soldering videos to beginners as well as take pictures of the SMD to show the cathode of the diode.



I found that the keycaps were surprisingly pleasant due to the shape- it looks like the keycaps from kinesis keyboards. Like everyone else, I am not quite used to the matrix layout yet. My muscle memory seems to have disappeared and i need to relearn the qwerty layout - partly due to the fact that i am used to the dorvak layout and the positioning thing on the keys F and J. i plan to learn colemak layout since dorvak places too much emphasis on the right hand side. im also trying to figure out a new layout for my keys

here is my layout so far:
 

there seems to be an interference with my windows layout with my current keyboard layout. i type in dorvak sometimes even though i have removed it from my system. weird.

[seferphier]

btw, what is the advantage of matrix layout?

[davkol]

btw, what is the advantage of matrix layout?

[seferphier]

btw, what is the advantage of matrix layout?

Show Image

so the staggered layout is a legacy layout that originated from type writers? And this is not natural?

[seferphier]

Reds are working out pretty well for me, kind of rolled the dice on using reds instead of brown that i am used to. Tried lubing some reds the other day and they seem pretty fantastic so i am going to lube and sticker mine this weekend

4th work day using it the whole day, ive added a larger slope/tent

Show Image

However i seem to be making more mistakes now, got to keep learning, it does make my hands hurt less for sure with it like this.l

how does the slope help ergonomically and by how much?

[davkol]

so the staggered layout is a legacy layout that originated from type writers? And this is not natural?

Exactly! Do you have two right hands? I don't. Makes me wonder, how it would be to be left-handed with two right hands.

[sordna]

Anything not symmetric is not natural. Your fingers don't naturally both lean to the left, do they ?  Traditional keyboards are terrible for the left hand especially (lookup "ulnar deviaton").

[TDub]

Build mine this weekend. Building it was soooooo much fun Still refining my layout. Mine has Clears which still need to be stickered and lubed (didn't have the patience for that his weekend, really wanted to get it up and running and start typing). I am using cherry DS but unfortunately that means tons of keys in the wrong size and profile (waiting for the DSA Retro GB).

Advantages:

+ LOOOOOVING it for gaming. Especially with games like League of Legends, the stagger annoyed the hell out of me for summoner spells. Left hand side + mouse is just perfect.
+ The programmable controller is just awesome. So many possibilities!
+ I like the split. Positioning each hand separately is often nice.
+ Exposes bad habits from staggered keyboards. On my left hand I seem to shift to the left (with my left hand) on the second row of alphas (from r to d for example) opposed to the direction of the stagger. Never noticed it until I started typing on the ErgoDox.
+ Fun to build
+ Unique
+ Very little hand movement (but then this is also true for my pokers)
+ Thumb buttons are a great improvement. No longer is my thumb confined to working the spacebar! FREEEEEEEDOOOOOM

Neutral:
. Kinda wish I had gone for the case with wrist rest (but I might figure out some way to add one)
. Still waiting for a fitting set of keycaps
. WPM still terrible (but partially because I am more hesitant than I really need to be)
. Doesn't come with feet but I already solved that.

Bad:
- Top 3 thumb buttons are hard to reach, for me to the point of being useless. Maybe this is due to the way I currently position my hand. Maybe I will get used to them. For now they get less frequently used functions like the windows key and it's fine.
- Moving both sides independently also irritates me sometimes. I am someone who moves his keyboards around a lot and with my pokers I move it with one hand and the second hand automatically orients itself after the move. With the ErgoDox I adjust each hand individually and my right hand seems to lose orientation more because of it. Hopefully this is just a matter
- For me the clear layerstack or L0 key doesn't seem to work. Not sure why, posted on massdrop and hopefully this will be resolved for me soon.

In short: lots to love, few cons which hopefully will lessen with time

[seferphier]

+ Exposes bad habits from staggered keyboards. On my left hand I seem to shift to the left (with my left hand) on the second row of alphas (from r to d for example) opposed to the direction of the stagger. Never noticed it until I started typing on the ErgoDox.

agreed!!!

[Glod]

Reds are working out pretty well for me, kind of rolled the dice on using reds instead of brown that i am used to. Tried lubing some reds the other day and they seem pretty fantastic so i am going to lube and sticker mine this weekend

4th work day using it the whole day, ive added a larger slope/tent

Show Image

However i seem to be making more mistakes now, got to keep learning, it does make my hands hurt less for sure with it like this.l

how does the slope help ergonomically and by how much?

well your wrists are not as twisted that way with slope and its all around more comfortable, many keyboards have allowed this slope like kinesis freestyle, freestyle2, and goldtouch adjustable and the super rare ibm m15 (among some others).

in fact i just added even more slope and its perfect now

[seferphier]

Reds are working out pretty well for me, kind of rolled the dice on using reds instead of brown that i am used to. Tried lubing some reds the other day and they seem pretty fantastic so i am going to lube and sticker mine this weekend

4th work day using it the whole day, ive added a larger slope/tent

Show Image

However i seem to be making more mistakes now, got to keep learning, it does make my hands hurt less for sure with it like this.l

how does the slope help ergonomically and by how much?

well your wrists are not as twisted that way with slope and its all around more comfortable, many keyboards have allowed this slope like kinesis freestyle, freestyle2, and goldtouch adjustable and the super rare ibm m15 (among some others).

in fact i just added even more slope and its perfect now

lets see a picture of it! i guess the best way to produce the slant is by buying the freestyle2 palm support?

[bisl]

- Lubed Red Switches (103/205 Mix with teflon spring lube)

...

The lubed red switches are like my new favorite thing, holy **** awesome

I tried lubing up my reds as well, although I had only 205 and to be honest it felt like it kind of just gummed them up a little--they actually feel a little heavier than they did before, which is saddening since it took a long time to do and would doubtlessly take much longer to clean off.

Also, where do you even GET 103, anyway? Is there anything more conventionally available that could possibly replace it? Is it a necessary component in order to actually reduce the friction when lubricating?

To be honest I read through most of the MMB lubing thread and I came out with about as many questions as when I started. I'd love some pointers if anyone's got some.

[Larken]

been trying out various angles with various household objects. (don't ask).

found the perfect angle for myself, though I'm toying with the idea of getting the VIP3, but I don't think it's able to hit the angle I want. Any opinions, Glod? Pics below.

The ascent model from kinesis would be able to do it, but 200 bucks for a tenting system is out of my reach.

[seferphier]

been trying out various angles with various household objects. (don't ask).

found the perfect angle for myself, though I'm toying with the idea of getting the VIP3, but I don't think it's able to hit the angle I want. Any opinions, Glod? Pics below.

The ascent model from kinesis would be able to do it, but 200 bucks for a tenting system is out of my reach.

Show Image

Show Image

looks like the stand would make the keyboard rocky...