Avatar size

[baldgye]

There are some starting at the very beginning of this thread. Did you even care to read it before you decided to comment?

There is also this entire thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43309.0

Now whether or not you agree to those reasons does not take away from the fact that they are valid. And if you're going to try to say that they all amount to "I want it", then what does any argument against this change amount to beside "I don't want it"?

Again with the hostility, yeah I read the thread before posting and all of the admins posts too (the guy who actually has to do the work). My argument wasn't ever that I simply didn't want it, though apparently this made me 'ignorant'.... at which point I left the thread.
Like I said in someone's reply (maybe yours) in that thread if it dsnt actually impact the size of the side bar etc then I have no problem with making avy's bigger.

But I guess this offensive amount of logic requires that people simply ignore me so they don't have to actually form some kind of meaningful thought process.

[esoomenona]

I have not been hostile at all. In fact, I've remained calm and tried to converse with you with no negative demeanor. I asked a serious question. You will know when I get hostile.

I believe that was a reply to me. And I believe that's a reasonable middle ground. I counter your argument in a civil manner, and you take it as hostility.

My counter argument to leaving things alone would be this: why couldn't we just leave signatures the way they were?

[Soarer]

There are some starting at the very beginning of this thread. Did you even care to read it before you decided to comment?

There is also this entire thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43309.0

Now whether or not you agree to those reasons does not take away from the fact that they are valid. And if you're going to try to say that they all amount to "I want it", then what does any argument against this change amount to beside "I don't want it"?

Now that's just not summing it up fairly.

The arguments for are simply that some people want bigger avatars - there are no technical or layout reasons. What you think are valid arguments are reasons why some people want them bigger - to show more detail, be more prominent, etc.

Reasons such as 'because it would fit', and 'Steam does it', are not valid arguments, not reasons to make a change at all.

Some of the arguments against are technical/layout related, such as not expanding the margin to intrude on posts. There are also arguments based on focusing on post content, which are certainly valid. And of course some others are reasons why people "don't want it" - no need for more detail, don't want them more prominent.

So in a fairly unbiased summary (I tried, at least) that's 3 groups of reasons against versus 1 group for.

[jdcarpe]

Now that's just not summing it up fairly.

The arguments for are simply that some people want bigger avatars - there are no technical or layout reasons. What you think are valid arguments are reasons why some people want them bigger - to show more detail, be more prominent, etc.

Reasons such as 'because it would fit', and 'Steam does it', are not valid arguments, not reasons to make a change at all.

Some of the arguments against are technical/layout related, such as not expanding the margin to intrude on posts. There are also arguments based on focusing on post content, which are certainly valid. And of course some others are reasons why people "don't want it" - no need for more detail, don't want them more prominent.

So in a fairly unbiased summary (I tried, at least) that's 3 groups of reasons against versus 1 group for.

Actually, your third argument against, is the same one you say is invalid as for. So I discount that.

Another reason for is that if it will fit horizontally within the established margin, and would only increase 36px or 50px vertically, you would gain resolution for the avatars. Typically, you have to shrink your artwork to fit, and less shrinking means less loss of detail.

[baldgye]

I'm struggling to find the place where I was aggressive or rude to you, or anyone else in that thread, yeah I made a quip at gli but that was only because it amused me he used my username and didn't quote me in what looked like an attempt to be condescending, but that didn't work so he was just rude instead which prompted me to leave the thread.

As for leaving them be, I didn't have a problem with sig's or avy's I only argued that I think that over-sized avys and sigs negatively impact forums and offer almost no benefit.

[esoomenona]

You're not seeing my point. I don't care how many arguments there are on either side. I do care about saying that all of them that are in support are only saying "I want it", because you can make the same argument in reverse.

There are more than one group of reasons. There was increase in detail. There was increase in the ability to express yourself. There was the fact that most monitors are of larger resolutions so a larger size isn't as detrimental as it would have been in the past.

But if you want to lump all of those things into one category, I can do the same. Hell, I would wager most people who tried to jump on the technical aspect don't even care about that. It's just a way to get their way for something they don't want.

Now, I'm only saying this because lumping those reasons into one was the unfair summary. If we're getting into it personally, I don't care if it gets bigger. All I want was the downsampling (per tp4tissue) to stop destroying my avatar.

[esoomenona]

I'm struggling to find the place where I was aggressive or rude to you, or anyone else in that thread, yeah I made a quip at gli but that was only because it amused me he used my username and didn't quote me in what looked like an attempt to be condescending, but that didn't work so he was just rude instead which prompted me to leave the thread.

As for leaving them be, I didn't have a problem with sig's or avy's I only argued that I think that over-sized avys and sigs negatively impact forums and offer almost no benefit.

Are you that egotistical? You are the one who started speaking in general about everyone's opinions, so I countered that. But you continue to focus everything on yourself.

Show me where I said you were rude or aggressive?

[baldgye]

You're not seeing my point. I don't care how many arguments there are on either side. I do care about saying that all of them that are in support are only saying "I want it", because you can make the same argument in reverse.

Yeah you could, but that's not what I'm doing.

There are more than one group of reasons. There was increase in detail. There was increase in the ability to express yourself. There was the fact that most monitors are of larger resolutions so a larger size isn't as detrimental as it would have been in the past.

But still detrimental. And if you need to express your self then, get a blog? Avatars arn't designed to be a place to express your sense of individuality, its simply an image people can attach to your posts to give them more personality to help establish bonds between posters.

But if you want to lump all of those things into one category, I can do the same. Hell, I would wager most people who tried to jump on the technical aspect don't even care about that. It's just a way to get their way for something they don't want.

Ok, but how does that make there arguments less valid?

Now, I'm only saying this because lumping those reasons into one was the unfair summary. If we're getting into it personally, I don't care if it gets bigger. All I want was the downsampling (per tp4tissue) to stop destroying my avatar.

downsampling is a problem on many web services, it's up to you (via creativity skill etc) to make the most of that, my avatar is very detailed and yet looks fine. I have no problem with improving the sampling q, but if your avatar is suffering, then be creative and make one that isn't so negatively affected.

[baldgye]

Show me where I said you were rude or aggressive?

and you take it as hostility.

Not explicit but more implied, as I never took your post as hostility... hell even when you told people to add me to there ignore list I wasn't hostile towards you.

[esoomenona]

Your arguments are SO contradictory! Detrimental is a matter of opinion. How can you keep claiming that one argument is invalid, but claim that another argument is not invalid when the people who try to use it don't even give a damn about it?

Not explicit but more implied, as I never took your post as hostility... hell even when you told people to add me to there ignore list I wasn't hostile towards you.

Again with the hostility

And I never said to add people to an ignore list, I said to ignore you. And only in regard to the fact that you don't know how to take a joke, and are so defensive about everything, even though you claim you don't care.

[The_Ed]

Alright, in 36 votes we have: 2/3 for bigger, 1/4 for the same, and 1/12 for smaller (really?...). Looks like it's gonna be 150 so far, which is better than 100. Hopefully in the future we will have the choice to choose for ourselves on things like the maximum avatar and signature sizes. That way we will avoid all this drama...

[baldgye]

Detrimental in that, admins need to make bigger avys to work and not totally break the forums (I'm going to assume we can put aside the increase that wouldn't affect the sidebar size because I don't mind that increase), wider sidebars to allow for larger sigs reduces the horizontal space in which peoples posts can fit, which in turn makes it so that posted images would be smaller and the forum pages would be longer, the increase in size would mean the servers have a greater load and pagers take longer to load...

 Ah you edited your post, yeah I made a mistake and took a post the wrong way and said as much after I realised...

[SmallFry]

Thanks for the report. I missed the percentages under the poll.

[The_Ed]

The admins (especially rknize) have been fixing problems and improving the site (though some people see some of these changes as detrimental). A change in the maximum avatar size was not simply implemented like others, it is actually being put up to a vote. Therefore all these heated arguments are pointless if you have already given your vote up above, as you have already voiced your opinion with that vote.

Thanks for the report. I missed the percentages under the poll.

You're welcome.

[mkawa]

it's insane and hilarious to me that you guys are arguing this much over the size of your avis. baldgye, please stay. you're fun and we like having you here; you've already shown through your passion about total minutiae that you're a strong part of the community. hell, we love having the_ed here and all he does is ***** about things no one else cares about (i mean that in the best possible way ed, we <3 you and missed you while you were busy doing other things).

russ will figure out what is possible with the templates and i'm sure will make the appropriate decision after multi-browser testing and his best attempt at pleasing everyone. i'm also sure we'll iterate on this as we make back and front-end changes. there is an upcoming SMF 2.1 release that we will have to integrate into our fork, and the big bad monster in the horizon -- SMF 3.0 is a ground-up rewrite of our chosen forum framework. 3.0 is actually why we went with 2.0.x, so we will be evolving the code and templates quite a bit as our time frees up.

[The_Ed]

and all he does is ***** about things no one else cares about

Hey...

we <3 you and missed you while you were busy doing other things

Sure, try to suck up after insulting me...

Wait... I left?... You mean when I was mostly at DT for quite a while (months)?

[SmallFry]

Chillax. He was making a joke.

[jdcarpe]

Chillax. He was making a joke.

??

[esoomenona]

.

[SmallFry]

Chillax. He was making a joke.

??

Talking to Ed, I suppose you have him ignored?

[jdcarpe]

Chillax. He was making a joke.

??

Talking to Ed, I suppose you have him ignored?

No, I just didn't sense any real hostility. I think that was sarcasm.

And I don't have anyone ignored. I just choose to ignore drivel when I see it.

[The_Ed]

[/sarcasm]

I swear people never get it...

I'm the only "certifiable" one here according to the state, and I seem to one of the few who can understand sarcasm...

[SmallFry]

Sarcasm is a bit hard to pick up on when I'm reading the forum, unless I've personally talked to you for a while.  Sorry about that.

[mkawa]

[/sarcasm]

I swear people never get it...

I'm the only "certifiable" one here according to the state, and I seem to one of the few who can understand sarcasm...

i highly doubt you're the only certifiable fellow here. you're among friends ed. never forget that.

[The_Ed]

ASPIES UNITE! FORM ASSBURGER *PLUPERFECT NOW!

* More than perfect. Supremely perfect.

[mkawa]

no more possible than perfect, which is itself impossible. sorry, thems the breaks kid.

[Soarer]

Now that's just not summing it up fairly.

The arguments for are simply that some people want bigger avatars - there are no technical or layout reasons. What you think are valid arguments are reasons why some people want them bigger - to show more detail, be more prominent, etc.

Reasons such as 'because it would fit', and 'Steam does it', are not valid arguments, not reasons to make a change at all.

Some of the arguments against are technical/layout related, such as not expanding the margin to intrude on posts. There are also arguments based on focusing on post content, which are certainly valid. And of course some others are reasons why people "don't want it" - no need for more detail, don't want them more prominent.

So in a fairly unbiased summary (I tried, at least) that's 3 groups of reasons against versus 1 group for.

Actually, your third argument against, is the same one you say is invalid as for. So I discount that.

Another reason for is that if it will fit horizontally within the established margin, and would only increase 36px or 50px vertically, you would gain resolution for the avatars. Typically, you have to shrink your artwork to fit, and less shrinking means less loss of detail.

I didn't say that wanting it was invalid, just that it should be described as such. Not wanting it is equally valid.

I said 'because it will fit' isn't a valid argument 'for' because it won't fit without at least expanding the vertical space.

[baldgye]

Cheers mkawa, but it still feels like I'm an outsider looking in on a community I don't understand

[mkawa]

welcome to how the_ed feels every minute of every day of his life, and yet we welcome him with open arms (and some shouting, but only good shouting!)

[The_Ed]

Pluperfect really has 2 meanings depending on context. 1 of them is more than perfect/supremely perfect. It is usually used in a godly sense. The words exist regardless of the fact that they are unattainable.

[keymaster]

Cheers mkawa, but it still feels like I'm an outsider looking in on a community I don't understand

Welcome to the club  )

[The_Ed]

welcome to how the_ed feels every minute of every day of his life, and yet we welcome him with open arms (and some shouting, but only good shouting!)

I got 2 "last warnings" from reaper for swearing... (He REALLY hates the size=2 tag...) Never once have I been given a "warning level" like everyone else... But once Rknize fixed the Nostalgia theme (after my goading) I no longer needed to use the size=2 tag. But it still bothers me that when other people have censoring enabled it censors their posts for everyone else as well...

[The_Beast]

Grown men arguing about pixels



only in the internet ago (Btw, it doesn't matter to me what way this thing goes)

[baldgye]

I argue for logical discussion, little else.

[mkawa]

see ed, your first compatriot! (KIDDING KIDDING!)

[The_Ed]

see ed, your first compatriot! (KIDDING KIDDING!)

Who?...

My god... I just looked and this is my 78th post in 93 hours... I have been REALLY active these last few days... But my average posts per day is still less than what it used to be, so I guess it's fine for me to just keep posting. I REALLY love typing on my 1390120, too bad I have to switch it out for gaming... If NIB Model F's were easier/cheaper to come by I would pick up some of those as well.

[keymaster]

Now I can't wait to roll out my new 150x150 avatar..

[The_Ed]

Only 2 more votes in a day and a half?

Is this running until 11:59 PM Sunday?

[Soarer]

Only 39 votes total. Nowhere near enough to call representative.

Perhaps 18 or so people need a lesson in how to use 10,000 pixels with great effect...

[mkawa]

i had a serious nerdgasm over that avi when i first saw it. CLACK IS A BOSS

[rknize]

I put a link in the news header, but I know that a lot of people run with the header rolled up.  A lot of people probably just don't care that much.  The change does not have to be final and the poll will remain open to track changing overall opinion.

[The_Ed]

I know, I saw that link in the header a few days ago. The votes have been hovering back and forth at around 2/3 for an increase. So is the poll gonna be "called" later today? 150 pixels is the winner right now, and as you say it doesn't have to be final.

And yes Soarer, I do realize that 40 votes are not representative. But we won't get very many more votes unless it became mandatory to vote.

[rknize]

I'll deploy the site code changes needed to support them today or tomorrow and then change the config unless the votes change.

[Soarer]

And yes Soarer, I do realize that 40 votes are not representative. But we won't get very many more votes unless it became mandatory to vote.

Considering the multiple threads you've started about this, and regular bumps to this one, AND it being in the banner... it's not just non-representative, it's pitiful! There's well over 300 users online even at this relatively early hour, and the vote count is barely 10% of that. I hate to think how small a percentage it is of the people who've visited during the life of this poll.... maybe 2 or 3%?!

It's safe to say that the vast majority are either happy with how it is currently, or simply don't care.

Hardly a mandate for change.

[kmiller8]

How did someone start a poll :0000000000000000000000000000000

[SmallFry]

Hush my child. No more tears now. Only the mods can post polls currently.

[baldgye]

Hey guys come on now, a minority want to make changes for changes sake (without having to do the work) seems legit to me!

[rknize]

Wow...100x100 has nearly caught up to 150x150.  I've deployed the code changes to support 150x150.  The additional space in the left margin should be apparent.  I recovered some dead space in a few other spots as well, so the margin increase is not 1:1 with the 150px width.

Avatar limit is still 100x100.  Let's see where we are at the end of the day.

[keymaster]

so much for the overwhelming majority who wanted 184x184 

[jdcarpe]

How many of the accounts that voted were created since this poll went up?