Poll

Matias keycaps you would buy...

Dye sub legends on Thick PBT
256 (24.7%)
Laser legends on Thick PBT
74 (7.1%)
Laser legends on Thick ABS
16 (1.5%)
Backlit ABS
27 (2.6%)
Doubleshot ABS
106 (10.2%)
Black legends on White caps
77 (7.4%)
Red legends on White caps
42 (4.1%)
Blue legends on White caps
59 (5.7%)
White legends on Black caps
68 (6.6%)
White legends on Red caps
31 (3%)
White legends on Blue caps
38 (3.7%)
Other colours (specified in the comment field)
35 (3.4%)
Blanks (no legends)
120 (11.6%)
Black legends on Grey caps
56 (5.4%)
White legends on Grey caps
30 (2.9%)

Total Members Voted: 331

Author Topic: Keycaps  (Read 250252 times)

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Online bcredbottle

  • Posts: 690
  • Location: Seattle, Washington
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #450 on: Thu, 10 March 2016, 17:11:00 »
Massdrop is an existing and, in most cases, reliable distribution platform. Why should Matias take on the cost of building his own?

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3642
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Re: Keycaps
« Reply #451 on: Thu, 10 March 2016, 18:54:12 »
I guess it's time to rethink using Alps [...] Also thank you for telling this now and not when you started, just so I could waste a lot of hype.
This is a pretty whiny, passive-aggressive kind of response.

My suggestion to Matias is to manufacture keycaps and build a keycap shop of their own, a keycap shop where non-standard keycaps and blanks can be bought individually, with the option to order custom keycaps too, for the hype part, just post keycap photos to GH/Reddit regularly, especially r/mk ∂ For example, come up with a unique color combo + layout every week, post it to every social channel you can find

This sounds very unlikely. It would take hiring multiple full-time staffers just to deal with this one experimental thing, which might not even turn out profitable enough to cover those salaries.

By contrast, going through Massdrop is relatively cheap and low risk.

Matias is a keyboard vendor with a small staff and relatively standard OEM and distributor relationships (they donít just sell direct to worldwide customers), long product cycles, etc. Massdrop are specialists in marketing, high-touch support, and distribution for niche aftermarket keyboard add-ons. Their group buy platform leads to up-front payment and no need to keep inventory or handle complicated distribution, which is great for vendors.
« Last Edit: Thu, 10 March 2016, 18:58:45 by jacobolus »

Offline Hak Foo

  • Posts: 1231
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Re: Keycaps
« Reply #452 on: Thu, 10 March 2016, 20:55:01 »
I agree with you about the structure of the problem.

I think some of the "big small orders" -- a hundred or two boards with custom lettering for an app or a big group buy-- might be big enough to be worth trying to do themselves, but I don't doubt they'd be tossing money out the window trying to cope with a hundred ALPS enthusiasts here all saying things like "I want Hangul lettering and the Southern Pacific logo instead of the Windows logo"

For those, it might make sense to make a partnership with a third party who can do small-scale lettering, like WASD.  Then they can ship complete sets and whole crates of standard caps out, and let the print shopthat knows how to do small orders sort it out.
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Offline ctm

  • Posts: 424
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Re: Keycaps
« Reply #453 on: Thu, 10 March 2016, 21:32:20 »
I basically don't care which platform to go with. I just want Alps PBT caps on my Alps64 ASAP. Black on black dye-sub will be the best. I will probably get another set of a different color for my incoming Infinity 60.
TMK Alps64 w/ Matias Quiet Switches in KBP V60 case.
Infinity60 with SKCM Orange Switches w/ TMK.
CM Storm QRF w/ Frosty Flake controller, Cherry MX Blue Switches and TMK firmware.


Coming:
Ellipse Model F F62.

Offline zombimuncha

  • Posts: 331
  • Location: UK
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #454 on: Fri, 11 March 2016, 02:58:10 »
I have no problem with Massdrop. The one time I bought from them there was a problem and they put it right with a minimum of fuss. I'm not in love with their shipping rates to non-US locations, but for something small and light like a set of keycaps I can get my in-laws to forward them to me.

Offline DYSEQTA

  • Posts: 2
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #455 on: Mon, 14 March 2016, 02:46:39 »
...I'm not in love with their shipping rates to non-US locations...

Yeah... It's ridiculous. I have bought several things via MD and haven't had a problem with the orders themselves but the shipping costs has me thinking I won't be doing it again. On three orders the shipping ranged from 30% of item cost, best case, to 60% in worst case. It's just pathetic.

Offline Matias

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    • http://matias.ca
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #456 on: Tue, 15 March 2016, 02:13:18 »
Regarding Massdrop, their platform and large community of users already buying keycaps make them an easy way to start with keycap buys.  Anyone here who wants to organize one is also free to.

We can certainly do small runs -- but the bigger the order, the lower the unit cost = the more viable the GB.


Offline Matias

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Re: Keycaps
« Reply #457 on: Tue, 15 March 2016, 02:16:41 »

I just got photos of the samples of Cherry Stab Clips for ALPS mount (below).  I should receive them in about a week.  More photos when I receive the actual samples...


131133-0

« Last Edit: Tue, 15 March 2016, 02:29:49 by Matias »

Offline S1llyC0ne

  • Posts: 52
  • Location: France
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #458 on: Tue, 15 March 2016, 04:08:01 »
Regarding Massdrop, their platform and large community of users already buying keycaps make them an easy way to start with keycap buys.  Anyone here who wants to organize one is also free to.

We can certainly do small runs -- but the bigger the order, the lower the unit cost = the more viable the GB.
Seems legit to me !

Offline Fuzzybear

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: SG
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #459 on: Wed, 16 March 2016, 13:34:42 »
I haven't had any issues with Massdrop, and though their shipping prices internationally could be better, they are generally not horrible, and comparatively almost always lower than Amazon for the same single item. Their customer service is better than many online retailers also.

I understand the fear and mistrust of having a middleman suddenly appear and start "strangling off" the group buys that used to be organized by the community, but I feel this is a worthwhile sacrifice as long as the prices are comparable at the end of the day. They have to earn a profit, but at the same time they are reaching a larger audience and generating more volume than most community organized group buys.

Payment is easier to orchestrate, there is more transparency, less risk and there is less hassle in general, I don't think they will be going away any time soon...

Additionally, any tentative prices and ship dates for Blank PBT Keycaps yet?

Offline notmybongos

  • Posts: 11
  • Location: NYC
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #460 on: Tue, 29 March 2016, 08:28:09 »
Any thoughts on keycap typography?
I've been curious about what fonts perform best for the laser etching process. Seems like thin weights with little stroke modulation tend to look good.
For example (especially the Light weight): http://www.monotype.com/fonts/neue-haas-unica/
« Last Edit: Tue, 29 March 2016, 08:29:43 by notmybongos »

Offline salvanipour

  • Posts: 23
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #461 on: Thu, 31 March 2016, 11:24:12 »
Definitely excited to see some other options for Filco Zero owners.

Offline zombimuncha

  • Posts: 331
  • Location: UK
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #462 on: Fri, 15 April 2016, 02:16:17 »
Refresh my memory - will these new THICK keycaps be available in ABS as well as PBT?

Offline Reloaded

  • Posts: 1
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #463 on: Sat, 30 April 2016, 15:59:53 »
and now its already may :(

Offline zombimuncha

  • Posts: 331
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Re: Keycaps
« Reply #464 on: Mon, 16 May 2016, 02:32:12 »
Hi Matias, do you have any update for us? How are the samples looking? When's the first production run? How long until I can get these on my desk?
thx, z

Offline S1llyC0ne

  • Posts: 52
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Re: Keycaps
« Reply #465 on: Mon, 16 May 2016, 04:41:36 »
Yes, zombimuncha. It has been too long since the last update... :-(

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Offline Matias

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Re: Keycaps
« Reply #466 on: Mon, 16 May 2016, 12:12:49 »

Yes, it's been a while since the last update...

I'm in China right now.  I think we're close to being done.  We're doing another test injection this week and then another laser test.  Still can't believe it's taken this long.  I can see why most manufacturers stick with just ABS.

Anyway, fingers crossed for this week.  I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them.  Thanks again for your patience...


Offline S1llyC0ne

  • Posts: 52
  • Location: France
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #467 on: Mon, 16 May 2016, 13:32:14 »

Yes, it's been a while since the last update...

I'm in China right now.  I think we're close to being done.  We're doing another test injection this week and then another laser test.  Still can't believe it's taken this long.  I can see why most manufacturers stick with just ABS.

Anyway, fingers crossed for this week.  I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them.  Thanks again for your patience...
Great news !! Thanks !

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Offline zombimuncha

  • Posts: 331
  • Location: UK
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #468 on: Mon, 16 May 2016, 14:12:06 »

Yes, it's been a while since the last update...

I'm in China right now.  I think we're close to being done.  We're doing another test injection this week and then another laser test.  Still can't believe it's taken this long.  I can see why most manufacturers stick with just ABS.

Anyway, fingers crossed for this week.  I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them.  Thanks again for your patience...

Thanks Edgar. A no-update update is better than no update at all!

Offline dante

  • Posts: 2553
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #469 on: Mon, 16 May 2016, 18:55:06 »
You mention laser?  I thought these were going to be dyesub?  Or is a laser used in the dyesub process?

Offline zombimuncha

  • Posts: 331
  • Location: UK
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #470 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 01:56:40 »
You mention laser?  I thought these were going to be dyesub?  Or is a laser used in the dyesub process?

Laser is for white-on-black, or similar. Dyesub can only do darker-onto-lighter, remember?

Offline dante

  • Posts: 2553
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #471 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 08:41:02 »
You mention laser?  I thought these were going to be dyesub?  Or is a laser used in the dyesub process?

Laser is for white-on-black, or similar. Dyesub can only do darker-onto-lighter, remember?

Not to sound disrespectful unless that lasering is front printed it sounds like a waste of money/time.  The lasering on the ABS caps is garbage so to put lasered legends on top of nice PBT keys is like putting ketchup on a nice steak.

Offline Reloaded

  • Posts: 1
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #472 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 08:58:07 »
You mention laser?  I thought these were going to be dyesub?  Or is a laser used in the dyesub process?

Laser is for white-on-black, or similar. Dyesub can only do darker-onto-lighter, remember?

Not to sound disrespectful unless that lasering is front printed it sounds like a waste of money/time.  The lasering on the ABS caps is garbage so to put lasered legends on top of nice PBT keys is like putting ketchup on a nice steak.

Honestly at this point, I don't even care. I just want the steak asap
It's not much longer and I can see my face reflection on my Ergo Pro Keycaps, I just need some PBT Keycaps to finally stop missing my leopold keycaps so ****ing much

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Keycaps
« Reply #473 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 13:01:24 »
Not to sound disrespectful unless that lasering is front printed it sounds like a waste of money/time.  The lasering on the ABS caps is garbage so to put lasered legends on top of nice PBT keys is like putting ketchup on a nice steak.
Matias explained that white on black is their most popular color for keycaps, so they need to have a solution for it.

If you donít care about white on black, then you can safely save your breath and ignore this whole part of the discussion.
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 May 2016, 13:03:06 by jacobolus »

Offline zombimuncha

  • Posts: 331
  • Location: UK
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #474 on: Wed, 18 May 2016, 04:36:52 »
Not to sound disrespectful unless that lasering is front printed it sounds like a waste of money/time.  The lasering on the ABS caps is garbage so to put lasered legends on top of nice PBT keys is like putting ketchup on a nice steak.
Matias explained that white on black is their most popular color for keycaps, so they need to have a solution for it.

If you donít care about white on black, then you can safely save your breath and ignore this whole part of the discussion.

Except that the WoB seems to be the biggest cause of delay here :(
Which is why it'd be great if we could have a quick BoW dyesub (or blank!) GB, before the official launch.

Offline Luminair

  • Posts: 12
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #475 on: Tue, 31 May 2016, 23:22:37 »

Yes, it's been a while since the last update...

I'm in China right now.  I think we're close to being done.  We're doing another test injection this week and then another laser test.  Still can't believe it's taken this long.  I can see why most manufacturers stick with just ABS.

Anyway, fingers crossed for this week.  I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them.  Thanks again for your patience...

thank you for your work and thank you for not just sticking to ABS!!!  :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Offline MarvX

  • Posts: 3
  • Location: Shanghai
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #476 on: Wed, 08 June 2016, 06:21:14 »
A couple of questions for Matias:

1) Considering blanks are the second most popular option in the poll, could you confirm it's planned to be produced?
2) If so, what about its material/colour choice?
3) Will the keycaps be compatible with your Quiet Linear switches? I have the Low Force edition of the Ergo Pro and would love to use some replacement keycaps on it.
3) Are there any plans to make them available for purchase in China? For example, thorough this Taobao seller, which sold nearly 1,000 keyboards of yours, claiming to be an authorized dealer here. Given that the production will take place in China, it'd be a pity (and a waste of time and bucks too) if we Chinese folks had to place international orders to get them shipped back to where they are initially created.

Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 June 2016, 09:42:25 by MarvX »

Offline S1llyC0ne

  • Posts: 52
  • Location: France
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #477 on: Wed, 08 June 2016, 08:23:08 »
As much as I can't wait to be able to finally order a blank PBT keyset, I hope DCS profile won't left on the side of the road. :fingerscrossed:

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Offline S1llyC0ne

  • Posts: 52
  • Location: France
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #478 on: Wed, 08 June 2016, 08:47:41 »


1) Considering blanks are the second most popular option in the poll, could you confirm it's planned to be produced?

I can answer this since I asked about it and I have been answered that, yes, we should be able to get our hands on blanks ^_^

PBT and various colours should be on the menu if I remember correctly.

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Online Woolybully67

  • Posts: 1
  • Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #479 on: Fri, 24 June 2016, 08:56:56 »
Anyway, fingers crossed for this week.  I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them.  Thanks again for your patience...

Any news on the keycap front? Been waiting to hear back here before I try to go hunting around computer recycling centers or buy another abs set.

Speaking of, anyone here used the tai hao cap sets on a stock matias board? Wondering if they have full coverage and how they compare to the default caps https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1362

Offline Hak Foo

  • Posts: 1231
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Re: Keycaps
« Reply #480 on: Fri, 24 June 2016, 18:48:24 »
If those  are the same as thr Massdrop set, the big issues are:

* The bottom ros are different.  Matias is 1.5x modifiers, 7x space; Tai Hao is 1.25x modifiers, 6.25x space.

* The tab in the numlock position is not a standard thing, but I think the profiles may be swappable.
Home: Tactile Pro 4 PC
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Offline commandlinedesign

  • Posts: 9
  • Location: San Francisco
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #481 on: Tue, 05 July 2016, 14:43:45 »

Yes, it's been a while since the last update...

I'm in China right now.  I think we're close to being done.  We're doing another test injection this week and then another laser test.  Still can't believe it's taken this long.  I can see why most manufacturers stick with just ABS.

Anyway, fingers crossed for this week.  I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them.  Thanks again for your patience...

"This week", "Next Week", "I'll post samples" - I don't think those phrases mean what you think they mean.

Just kidding, I appreciate your work and I'm not trying to hound you, but it's seriously been months since we had a meaningful update from you and it would be awesome if we could get some idea of how far things have progressed.

Offline Reloaded

  • Posts: 1
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #482 on: Tue, 19 July 2016, 02:01:10 »
this is starting to get frustrating honestly. This thread is now in my bookmarks bar for over a year and every post I feel like something is finally happening (almost done/very close) only to be disappointed in the following months.

Are there some serious problems? Just tell us, I would really prefer a "its not coming out for the next 6months" to the way it is being handled the pasts months

Offline frenchtoasters

  • Posts: 1
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #483 on: Thu, 21 July 2016, 09:51:26 »
With the latest Planck Group buy on massdrop they were able to provide PBT keycaps for matias switches, will we ever get a chance to buy the caps just by themselves???? Not sure the numbers for how many of these were sold but I was slightly disappointed in the fact they didnt even come with homing keys :/.

Offline zombimuncha

  • Posts: 331
  • Location: UK
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #484 on: Fri, 22 July 2016, 03:21:12 »
With the latest Planck Group buy on massdrop they were able to provide PBT keycaps for matias switches, will we ever get a chance to buy the caps just by themselves???? Not sure the numbers for how many of these were sold but I was slightly disappointed in the fact they didnt even come with homing keys :/.

Those were Signature Plastics DSA caps, which you can usually get here: http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alps-mount-1-space-pack-of-10/ altho currently out of stock, probably because of the recent Planck buy. They're a different, lower, profile than the caps Matias are working on.

Offline ctm

  • Posts: 424
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Re: Keycaps
« Reply #485 on: Sat, 23 July 2016, 23:26:01 »
With the latest Planck Group buy on massdrop they were able to provide PBT keycaps for matias switches, will we ever get a chance to buy the caps just by themselves???? Not sure the numbers for how many of these were sold but I was slightly disappointed in the fact they didnt even come with homing keys :/.

Those were Signature Plastics DSA caps, which you can usually get here: http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alps-mount-1-space-pack-of-10/ altho currently out of stock, probably because of the recent Planck buy. They're a different, lower, profile than the caps Matias are working on.
Interesting. I did not notice SP has put it on sale on their website. I also find they are offering DCS alps, but not sure if that's ABS or PBT.
TMK Alps64 w/ Matias Quiet Switches in KBP V60 case.
Infinity60 with SKCM Orange Switches w/ TMK.
CM Storm QRF w/ Frosty Flake controller, Cherry MX Blue Switches and TMK firmware.


Coming:
Ellipse Model F F62.

Offline ctm

  • Posts: 424
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Re: Keycaps
« Reply #486 on: Sat, 23 July 2016, 23:33:50 »
All I want now is a set of blank ALPS caps. I don't care about legend anymore.
TMK Alps64 w/ Matias Quiet Switches in KBP V60 case.
Infinity60 with SKCM Orange Switches w/ TMK.
CM Storm QRF w/ Frosty Flake controller, Cherry MX Blue Switches and TMK firmware.


Coming:
Ellipse Model F F62.

Offline Reloaded

  • Posts: 1
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #487 on: Sun, 24 July 2016, 09:38:15 »
All I want now is a set of blank ALPS caps. I don't care about legend anymore.

100% agree, I just need any PBT set for my ergo pro and I am a happy man

Offline zombimuncha

  • Posts: 331
  • Location: UK
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #488 on: Sun, 24 July 2016, 11:19:10 »

Yes, it's been a while since the last update...

I'm in China right now.  I think we're close to being done.  We're doing another test injection this week and then another laser test.  Still can't believe it's taken this long.  I can see why most manufacturers stick with just ABS.

Anyway, fingers crossed for this week.  I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them.  Thanks again for your patience...

Hi Matias, 2 months since the last update. Er... hows it going?  ;D You keeping quiet to build up the hype? Also I heard a rumour you're tinkering with your switch molds again. Is there any info you'd care to share?

Offline Fuzzybear

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: SG
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #489 on: Sun, 24 July 2016, 14:21:04 »
Any ETA on Blank black 104 key sets? :(

Many of us don't need any fancy options like lettering or packaging. ;)

Offline ctm

  • Posts: 424
  • Location: Seattle, WA
  • Hello, world!
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #490 on: Thu, 28 July 2016, 19:04:15 »
Matias, since you said the PBT tooling was finished, I really hope you could start selling blank first. I am sure there are many people who want to buy blanks.
TMK Alps64 w/ Matias Quiet Switches in KBP V60 case.
Infinity60 with SKCM Orange Switches w/ TMK.
CM Storm QRF w/ Frosty Flake controller, Cherry MX Blue Switches and TMK firmware.


Coming:
Ellipse Model F F62.

Offline Reloaded

  • Posts: 1
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #491 on: Wed, 17 August 2016, 08:12:18 »
3 month now already ...


anyone knows anything new?

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1856
  • Location: USA
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #492 on: Wed, 17 August 2016, 08:33:52 »
Matias, since you said the PBT tooling was finished, I really hope you could start selling blank first. I am sure there are many people who want to buy blanks.
Yes!

Offline Fuzzybear

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: SG
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #493 on: Mon, 05 September 2016, 11:33:55 »
*crickets*

:(

Offline zombimuncha

  • Posts: 331
  • Location: UK
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #494 on: Tue, 06 September 2016, 03:40:32 »
*crickets*

:(

Excited but increasingly disappointed crickets. Probably the Germans have a word for it. But with crickets.

Online Woolybully67

  • Posts: 1
  • Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #495 on: Tue, 06 September 2016, 08:29:22 »
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65528.msg2256322#msg2256322

Just an assumption but based on that email response it seems like the letter test shots we saw from Matias here might not have been up to par and they had to go back to the drawing board? I thought the keycap character process had basically been finalized since the spring. Looks like it's at least another 3 months out :(

Offline Reloaded

  • Posts: 1
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #496 on: Thu, 15 September 2016, 22:08:26 »
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65528.msg2256322#msg2256322

Just an assumption but based on that email response it seems like the letter test shots we saw from Matias here might not have been up to par and they had to go back to the drawing board? I thought the keycap character process had basically been finalized since the spring. Looks like it's at least another 3 months out :(

honestly I'm really disappointed that we just don't get any answer here for over 4months! Every time it sounds like everything is almost finished and now its production start in early 2017 ...

With this trend I would be really surprised if anybody here receives any PBT-caps in the next 12 months

I'm just gonna sell my Ergo Pro and that's it. I'm sick of waiting for the PBT-caps

Offline RyanArr

  • Posts: 23
  • Location: Sol 3
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #497 on: Tue, 27 September 2016, 18:39:58 »
Argh, just sell us blank replacement PBT caps for the oddball caps already (serious shiny ABS syndrome on my Cmd, Opt, and Space) and forget the legends! I can get the rest of the keys from AEKS on EBay.

Offline Nootz

  • Posts: 2
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #498 on: Fri, 04 November 2016, 04:34:39 »
Is there any update on this? It's been a while...
I want to buy another Matias board but I'm waiting for these keycaps before committing.

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1856
  • Location: USA
Re: Keycaps
« Reply #499 on: Sat, 05 November 2016, 11:48:48 »
My Matias-switch keyboards are V60s from KBP. I put dye-sub PBT alphas and numbers keycaps on them from vintage keyboards, such as IBM 5140 or SGI Granite. For mods and the spacebar, I use blank black ABS from the Matias web site. This combination works very well. I don't really notice the ABS on the mods.