Author Topic: My HDD cannot be detected any more, help! (Read 8543 times)

calavera · « **on:** Wed, 17 July 2013, 23:43:17 »

I have a WD 3TB internal drive I use for backing up data. I use a dock (USB 2.0) to transfer files to it. But today all of a sudden when I turn it on windows is asking me to format the drive and I cant access it. This **** has happened once a few years ago and I had to format and could only recover 7xxGB. I don't know what to do.

Right now the drive only shows up in device manager and shows its full size of 2.7TB but its in RAW format and empty (as in 100% drive space available.)
I tried a few recovery programs and they all detect the drive as only 7xxGB. Should I quick format the drive first so I get all 2.7TB back?

smknjoe · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 17 July 2013, 23:59:20 »

Plug it into a Linux box. From what you have described there is a logical problem with the partition table for some reason. 9 x out of 10 boot off of Ubuntu Live USB or plug into Linux box, get your data back and then run diagnostics on the HD to make sure there isn't a real problem with it. Reformat and done.

...are you only using for backup or do you need files off of it? If you don't need any data then run WD diagnostics and then reformat.

calavera · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 01:27:18 »

I need to recover the data on it. Otherwise I would have just formatted it right away. I don't have a linux box so I can't really use your method I think.

smknjoe · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 01:30:43 »

Quote from: smknjoe on Wed, 17 July 2013, 23:59:20

boot off of Ubuntu Live USB or other distribution

...there are other ways, but that's the easiest, fastest, cheapest, and probably the most reliable assuming there is nothing major wrong with the drive.

...and don't format the drive until you get your data back.

calavera · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 02:00:30 »

Wouldn't a quick format still allow for data recovery?

smknjoe · « **Reply #5 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 02:14:14 »

A quick format leaves the data intact but erases the partition table. Then you have no choice but data recovery software.

Windows and Mac have a hard time dealing with small discrepancies in logical structure. I have recovered data many times from HDs with simple logical problems by just using Linux. Many times you just need to boot into Linux and you can read all of the data as if there was no problem, back it up, and then deal with the hard drive issue (whatever it may be.)

Leslieann · « **Reply #6 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 02:16:08 »

Start simple, try a different cable and/or another computer.

calavera · « **Reply #7 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 02:16:26 »

Quote from: smknjoe on Thu, 18 July 2013, 02:14:14

A quick format leaves the data intact but erases the partition table. Then you have no choice but data recovery software.

Windows and Mac have a hard time dealing with small discrepancies in logical structure. I have recovered data many times from HDs with simple logical problems by just using Linux. Many times you just need to boot into Linux and you can read all of the data as if there was no problem, back it up, and then deal with the hard drive issue (whatever it may be.)

Hmm, I have no access to linux but want to give it a try. What's the best way to go about it?

Quote from: Leslieann on Thu, 18 July 2013, 02:16:08

Start simple, try a different cable and/or another computer.

I already tried it. It's the damn hard drive.

smknjoe · « **Reply #8 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 02:20:40 »

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/create-a-usb-stick-on-windows

Just boot from USB, you don't have to install Linux and it won't affect your current Windows installation. You should be able to browse the HDs after you boot from the USB (Flash) drive.

If you have already performed a quick format then this method will not work.

calavera · « **Reply #9 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 02:29:27 »

Quote from: smknjoe on Thu, 18 July 2013, 02:20:40

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/create-a-usb-stick-on-windows

Just boot from USB, you don't have to install Linux and it won't affect your current Windows installation. You should be able to browse the HDs after you boot from the USB (Flash) drive.

Hot damn, gonna give this a try right away. I never used Linux before so what should I be expecting after I boot into Linux? If everything is still there can I just copy & paste the data onto another drive?

When the same **** happened back in 2010, I lost most of the data and was able to recover like 1/5th of it. And about 1/3 of those files were corrupt so they were trashed. The drive is still under warranty so should I RMA this POS even if it doesn't have any bad sectors..etc?

EDIT: What ubuntu version do I need to download?

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop

smknjoe · « **Reply #10 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 02:39:49 »

There is a GUI that's very similar to Windows or Mac. Just copy and paste. Get your most precious files first just in-case the drive fails on you. You may only have one chance...you may have several chances. Every case is different, but from what you describe this would be my first method to try. I have had very good luck with minor logical errors this way. If you have bad sectors then this may still work but you might not be able to pull the data off of the damaged areas. In that case I would clone the entire drive and then attempt recovery from the image. I could go on and on, there is no "one way" when it comes to data recovery. If I tell you more I'll have to charge you.

RMA is up to you. The cause could be many things, power issues, bad cable(s), a problem with the external cradle, etc. I would test the drive in a known working rig or RMA.

smknjoe · « **Reply #11 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 02:57:15 »

The version really should not matter. Try 64bit and if that doesn't work try 32bit.

calavera · « **Reply #12 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:07:09 »

I tried both Desktop 13.04 amd64 and Desktop 12.10 i386 ISO's but it wouldn't boot for some reason. Am I doing something wrong here?

After the CMOS screen and selecting the usb drive as 1st boot device, nothing.

smknjoe · « **Reply #13 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:10:21 »

Did you use the Universal USB Installer? If that completed successfully then try hitting F12 or F10 to get your boot menu when first turning the PC on. Otherwise, it may try to boot from the wrong USB drive (or make sure you have the correct USB drive set in BIOS.)

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #14 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:11:12 »

You might skip the USB stick and just burn a live CD image to boot from.

Some USB sticks are picky.

calavera · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:11:53 »

Yeah I made sure. I use USB to boot/install windows 7 so I've done it before. I have an i7 920 x64 cpu, but I doubt that makes any difference.

smknjoe · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:13:38 »

CD will work if you have a burner and disc, but none of my laptops do. It's probably trying to boot from the external drive he's having trouble with.

smknjoe · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:15:26 »

Processor doesn't matter.

calavera · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:18:51 »

I actually turned the external hdd off so it doesn't affect boot sequence. I'm gonna try a different program to create the bootable USB.

smknjoe · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:20:26 »

That's a trivial matter. I'm sure you'll get it to boot. Let us know what happens.

Dgsbllx · « **Reply #20 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:31:23 »

Along the same lines of a bootable linux disc, I used Knoppix on my sisters laptop which allowed me to recover all data needed if that is any help.

http://knoppix.net/

calavera · « **Reply #21 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:42:21 »

Alright I used UltraISO to burn the 12.10 onto the usb drive. Got some text this time but still stuck at blinking cursor. Now I'm downloading 12.04 as well as the knoppix CD iso to give a try. Could the USB drive be faulty? This is driving me insane lol

smknjoe · « **Reply #22 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:42:40 »

Knoppix is good too. Just about any Linux distro will work. There is just more documentation on Ubuntu if he wants to google something.

smknjoe · « **Reply #23 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:45:53 »

Quote from: calavera on Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:42:21

Alright I used UltraISO to burn the 12.10 onto the usb drive. Got some text this time but still stuck at blinking cursor. Now I'm downloading 12.04 as well as the knoppix CD iso to give a try. Could the USB drive be faulty? This is driving me insane lol

I don't use Windows very often any more so maybe someone else can suggest a better ISO to bootable USB program.
Experiment: try a different flash drive or a CD if you can or different ISO to USB software.

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #24 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:53:10 »

Is it possible your computer is having USB issues? That was the initial problem correct? An external USB connection?

Honestly if your computer has a CD drive just burn an ISO and boot from it.

My apologies if not.

calavera · « **Reply #25 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 04:59:00 »

I don't think so, all the other USB stuff connected work fine. I plugged the bootable USB into various locations with the same results. Back of the motherboard, front case USB port, USB hub. Every other device connected are working fine.

calavera · « **Reply #26 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 06:13:41 »

Now I got this with 13.04. WTF

EDIT: was able to get boot into the OS using knoppix but the drive in question does not show up. What do I do now?

calavera · « **Reply #27 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 07:16:27 »

Successfully booted into ubuntu but the drive does not show up. I've been at this for hours now. FML

I think I'll be able to recover some of the files from the 746GB (which the recovery program thinks the size is.) Should I just quick format so I get back all 2.7TB of space and then try recovery again?

fohat.digs · « **Reply #28 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 08:20:12 »

No, don't do the quick format or anything else "destructive"

You have not exhausted your safer options yet.

How much is the data worth? If it was my big storage disk, and I did not have a good backup, I would gladly wait a week or more until I was able to burn a fresh Ubuntu disk on somebody else's computer, for example. Like my brother-in-law in another state and he mails it to me.

Or take it, or mail it, to somebody else, even if I had to pay them.

If the data is worth more than the drive, be patient.

PS - also, like Leslieann said, take it completely apart and put it all back together, ensuring that everything is snug and tight.

smknjoe · « **Reply #29 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 14:57:29 »

DON'T FORMAT. It will make things more difficult at best and is technically destructive as fohat said. Try it on a different PC and try to use Ubuntu again (it's a little more user friendly than Knoppix.)

You really shouldn't have any trouble doing that. It makes me suspicious of your hardware.

Edit: after looking at your screenshot I'm even more suspicious of your hardware or BIOS config. Try it on another PC(including Mac) and see what you get.

calavera · « **Reply #30 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 15:31:00 »

The problem was my overclock (it was rock stable before, guess CPU has degraded.) Put everything back to stock and was able to boot into Unbuntu. However, the drive wouldn't even show up. So I connected it directly to the motherboard trying to eliminate cable/dock hardware fault possibility. Booted it up and went to grab something to eat real quick. Came back to see flowing texts of "deleting orphan file record segment" on my screen like in the Matrix. Turns out, chkdisk recognized the drive and started diagnostics automatically and ended formatting the drive.

Anyways, now I have an empty 2.7TB hard drive that does shows up. I've been running a recovery program for the past 8+ hours and identified 4400+ files so far. My guess is these will be named FILE001, FILE002...etc so ID'ing and renaming every single one will be a *****. Plus based on my previous experience, about 1/2 of them will be corrupt and unusable.
I'm going to run a full diagnostics on the drive after the recovery is finished and RMA this *****. It's only 9 month old so still under warranty.

I very much appreciate all the help though. *group hug*

smknjoe · « **Reply #31 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 15:35:28 »

Congrats and bummer at the same time. You damn gamers and your overclocking (that does more harm than good)

Whenever you have any problems like this in the future make sure your BIOS settings are "factory default."

nubbinator · « **Reply #32 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 15:42:36 »

Sounds like your overclock might have caused the corruptions. Sometime unstable overclocks can cause data corruption. It's not common, but it could be what happened to you.

calavera · « **Reply #33 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 15:55:11 »

It only happened to my WD Green 3tb twice. My other WD green 2tb, samsung 2tb...etc never had such problem. As a matter of fact I never had hdd failure except on those two occasions. It seems to happen to a lot to other people as well when I googled it. None had answers or solutions that worked for me though.

smknjoe · « **Reply #34 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 16:20:40 »

Quote from: smknjoe on Thu, 18 July 2013, 14:57:29

You really shouldn't have any trouble doing that. It makes me suspicious of your hardware.

Edit: after looking at your screenshot I'm even more suspicious of your hardware or BIOS config. Try it on another PC(including Mac) and see what you get.

Looks like I was right. There is no need to overclock or heavily modify BIOS settings, even if you are a gamer.

If you had tried Ubuntu after resetting the BIOS you would probably be okay. Windows strikes again with it's infinite un-wisdom and it's auto "fixes." Your data was most likely perfectly readable (in Linux) before the check disk.

Get yourself a backup drive and BACKUP. Then, none of this would matter.

calavera · « **Reply #35 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 16:29:57 »

I did manage to get into ubuntu a few times but the drive didnt show up so I couldn't do anything. I was able to boot into knopixx and destop 13.04.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #36 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 16:46:13 »

Quote from: smknjoe on Thu, 18 July 2013, 16:20:40

infinite un-wisdom and its auto "fixes."

I never knew that "checkdisk" had that destructive side to it. I use it fairly often, maybe I should be more scared of it.

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #37 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 16:48:08 »

Quote from: fohat.digs on Thu, 18 July 2013, 16:46:13

Quote from: smknjoe on Thu, 18 July 2013, 16:20:40
infinite un-wisdom and its auto "fixes."

I never knew that "checkdisk" had that destructive side to it. I use it fairly often, maybe I should be more scared of it.

^^ I'm thinking the same thing, I tend to let them run but am going to rethink that.

smknjoe · « **Reply #38 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 16:57:21 »

Let me just say first that I'm an OS "agnostic" So, don't take it as bashing Windows. Every OS is useful in some way or another.

Most of the time chkdsk is great but in instances where the drive can't mount or you think there may be MBR or partition anomalies I would not use check disk. It can revert your partition tables back to a point where the disk will mount (that's the goal of chkdsk in a case like this) but it may be a "hidden" partition that you weren't using in the first place. Therefore, you won't be able to read the data without some type of data recovery software. Sort of like what Calavera is having to do now.

Leslieann · « **Reply #39 on:** Thu, 18 July 2013, 22:25:00 »

Never format.

A few things to note...
It may not be that the processor degraded, however, if it did, it means you are pushing things to hard. It's time to re-evaluate your reasons for overclocking. A good, modern quad core should be PLENTY fast for anything really. Processors have not been the system bottleneck for easily more than a decade, overclocking them is sort of moot when something else is holding you back. Today's system bottlenecks are the hard drive and the video card. A good Sata 3 SSD can really wake up a system.

Some of your symptoms are common to a power supply failing or being under powered. BEWARE.
A power supply that is too weak will damage all sorts of parts and cause failed boots and more. Power supplies can lose up to 20% capacity in the first year and 10% the second. How much overhead did you have? What is worse, is not only is this a silent killer, but even after replacing the power supply, the damage may already be done and it may be only a matter of time before other parts start to fail. I lost 5 thumbsticks (3x 16gb and 2x 32gb) and a 2TB drive to a power supply not performing to spec. I haven't even bothered to test the motherboard or cpu from that system yet to see if they are any good anymore, I just replaced the whole thing because I doubt the motherboard will last long.

Quote from: smknjoe on Thu, 18 July 2013, 16:57:21

Let me just say first that I'm an OS "agnostic" So, don't take it as bashing Windows. Every OS is useful in some way or another.

100% agreed.

I have even used Windows 98 like a virus to break a hard drive lock.

But seriously, every OS serves a purpose.

Checkdisk can destroy data, but usually that data is already trashed, you just didn't know it yet. ANY tool that can fix something, can also break it, it's just how things are. It's knowing what tool will do the job best that makes a difference. A hammer can build a house, but also tear it down, same thing here.

Regarding checkdisk destroying data, I have seen it trash data and perform near miracles, I even once saw it do both on the same drive. On one system, I saw it run three times in a row, the first completely killed what was left of the OS, the second time it restarted part way through and the third it repaired everything and the system worked fine from then on.

calavera · « **Reply #40 on:** Fri, 19 July 2013, 06:36:47 »

On a somewhat related note, what should I do for a safe 3TB storage? I'm thinking of getting two 3TB's and backing up data on both. Is there a dock or case that will allow me to do it without having to copy the files twice every time I back up?

remmeh · « **Reply #41 on:** Fri, 19 July 2013, 07:13:51 »

Quote from: calavera on Fri, 19 July 2013, 06:36:47

On a somewhat related note, what should I do for a safe 3TB storage? I'm thinking of getting two 3TB's and backing up data on both. Is there a dock or case that will allow me to do it without having to copy the files twice every time I back up?

You want a RAID 1 array (which mirrors data stored on each drive) or get cloud storage/backup service of any kind.

Drives will fail and if there is data that you NEED, absolutely NEED, there is no reason to have it stored in only one place where hardware could fail at any moment. Storage is cheap.

calavera · « **Reply #42 on:** Fri, 19 July 2013, 08:24:40 »

I would like this backup to be separated from my PC. Is there an external case for 3 tb's in raid 1 that I can use? I've seen some network related stuff but I'm clueless to these things.

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #43 on:** Fri, 19 July 2013, 08:57:29 »

Quote from: calavera on Fri, 19 July 2013, 08:24:40

I would like this backup to be separated from my PC. Is there an external case for 3 tb's in raid 1 that I can use? I've seen some network related stuff but I'm clueless to these things.

You could build a small file server and have it either use RAID for duplication if that's what you want. The options are almost endless when it comes to external file duplication/backup etc. Usually it comes down to what you want to spend.

calavera · « **Reply #44 on:** Fri, 19 July 2013, 09:27:56 »

Well, I want to build it for cheap. This will only be accessed once or twice a week to transfer/back up files. May be an external case for two drives that I can connect to the PC when I want?

JWK · « **Reply #45 on:** Fri, 19 July 2013, 09:42:20 »

Quote from: calavera on Thu, 18 July 2013, 06:13:41

EDIT: was able to get boot into the OS using knoppix but the drive in question does not show up. What do I do now?

You said previously you'd powered off the drive. Have you now turned it back on?

In Knoppix, look for the file explorer tool (nautilus). You should see the drive mounted under "computer". It will be mounted as "read only". If you add a second drive to copy files, you will need to right click to open the pull-down menu, and mount it as read/write.

calavera · « **Reply #46 on:** Fri, 19 July 2013, 09:48:39 »

Yes of course I powered it on. It showed up in CMOS prior to booting into Knoppix and desktop 13.04. The drive wasn't visible. If it were I wouldn't have attempted to connect the drive directly to the motherboard and be in the **** I am now.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #47 on:** Fri, 19 July 2013, 10:50:00 »

This is on-topic, but not directly on calavers's topic.

My external hard drives have been giving me fits. I have a collection of IDE hard drives, probably nearly a dozen of them, in the 20GB-500GB size range. I have about 4 external IDE-to-USB enclosures and/or adapters that I can swap them in and out of. I have 2 USB hubs, a 2.0 unpowered and a 3.0 powered.

These devices have all worked properly for quite a while, even back under XP, from which I migrated about 2 years ago. They continued to work fine under 7 and Ubuntu until recently.

Recently, they have been failing under Windows 7. Different drives, different connectors, different USB hubs. Often they are not recognized, although when I hot-plug them I almost always get a notice that a new device has been connected and is working properly, but it simply does not show up in Windows Explorer. Often, the device manager tells me that I need to format the drive. When I start that process, it runs for a while (5-20 minutes) then tells me that there was an unexpected error.

Since the same behavior takes place with all these different components, connected in different ways, I can't help but wonder where it is coming from.

Very soon I am going to do a complete re-format-re-install, and I would like to have several different backup sets which these old drives are perfect for. These would be "secondary" backups that would not kill me to lose, but I need to feel like I can trust them.

smknjoe · « **Reply #48 on:** Fri, 19 July 2013, 20:26:17 »

RAID is not suitable for backups nor is it meant to be used in lieu of a proper backups. RAID is used primarily for redundancy and speed. Just keep it simple with an extra HD that you schedule backups to. Backups are meant to be archives or snapshots of a particular point in time that you can revert to if need be. With RAID you don't have the option of reverting to a particular point in time. If you are lucky, you will only be able to restore the system to right before a failure.

Example: you go through and consolidate a bunch of picture folders into one big folder and then delete all of the empty folders. Two weeks later you realize - OH ****! - you deleted your niece's first birthday party pics thinking that you had moved them, when in reality you didn't but you DID delete the folder containing them. After two weeks guess what? That data has probably been overwritten and is now unrecoverable.

EDIT: Another example. Your partition table becomes corrupt and guess what, it does it on both drives because they are mirrored (RAID1) I've seen that happen many times.

Leslieann · « **Reply #49 on:** Fri, 19 July 2013, 23:29:37 »

To expand on what Smknhjoe said..

The problem with raid is this, it ONLY accounts for a drive failing. So? Well if your power supply burns up, it can fry both your drives. If your raid card fails, it can corrupt data on both drives. A lightening strike can kill both drives... Get the the idea yet? Raid is meant to keep a server running in case a drive fails, you still use a regular backup in case the computer itself fails.

External drives work okay for backups, however, the better the backup, the more hassle it is. Ideally, you want the external only plugged in when backing up, and even better, offsite when not being used. If your house burns, so does your backup. If it's plugged into your computer 24/7, it's only marginally better than raid (the usb system will usually fry before the drive gets fried). I say they work okay, because not only the problems mentioned, but also, far too many forget to bother making a backup.

Here is what I do.
First, off site.. I do this by having a server at an office I backup to, while it cost me some parts, the service is free. Places like Backblaze and Crashplan charge $60 a year to do the same thing. before you complain about the costs, you can barely by a small drive for that and these guys will backup unlimited data for that. I use Crashplans free software to send the actual data, which is free between friends and your own computers, so you don't have to have access to an office like I do, a buddy who trades data with you will suffice (and yes it is encrypted) and completely automated. I have several customers using these sorts of systems and they are quite happy with it.

In my case, since sending even a terrabyte over the internet takes a (LOOONG) while, when I first did my server I transferred the first backup at my house, then moved the backup server to the office. However, I only offsite backup my important data, about 100gigs worth. The larger stuff like movies games, etc.. I use a small external drive that I manually hook up every now and then and let it backup that way.

With this setup, even if my house burns, I retain my important stuff, and the rest, which is replaceable, is only vulnerable to fire and my laziness.

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Author Topic: My HDD cannot be detected any more, help! (Read 8543 times)