Author Topic: Frogamic's 95% project  (Read 8300 times)

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Offline frogamic

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Frogamic's 95% project
« on: Sat, 14 September 2013, 22:48:22 »
When looking for my first mech keyboard I almost bought a quickfire TK, but the more I thought about it the more I thought the position of the arrows was flawed and I could do better. So here goes my 95% keyboard.

Here's some renders of the board from Autodesk Inventor:
35870-0
35874-1
35872-2

Here's the layout (note it's in Dvorak)
35864-3

Here's the plate:
35868-4

Here's a possible CNC case, Blue parts are stand offs, green is a cutout for the teensy
35866-5

The numpad has been moved up one space, allowing for the arrow keys to be underneath, with the up arrow coinciding with the . key. The key to the left of the arrows will be a function key.
When num lock is not engaged the mapping of the numpad buttons will be like the 6 key group + pirnt screen, scroll lock & pause  rather than the default numpad mapping.
I'm planning to make the . key dual function, depending on the context, if you recently pressed a num pad key, it will be . otherwise it will be the up arrow.
The function key is easy to operate with your thumb to enter numbers when num lock is off, or to access del, ins, home, etc when numlock is on.
The board maintains complete compatibility with standard keycap sets, the bottom 3 rows of the numpad cluster are R4. The doubling of up arrow and numpad . creates a spare key that will be used for the function key, or a 1x mod can be used, from a tsangan kit.

I have the costar stabs from WASD, I've got 3 Teenseys from the GB, I've emailed a local laser cutting outfit about getting the plate cut Sent a drawing of the plate for a quote, and I have 110 MX reds coming in from Originative, although I want to upgrade to supergo clears probably.
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 September 2013, 09:08:43 by frogamic »
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Offline TheFlyingRaccoon

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 00:17:34 »
This looks very promising! Do you have a pic of the plate and layout?
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Offline Hellmark

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 00:40:32 »
One flaw in your design is for people who do number entry. Enter in a number, and want to shift cells on a spreadsheet to enter more numbers.

Offline frogamic

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 01:13:56 »
One flaw in your design is for people who do number entry. Enter in a number, and want to shift cells on a spreadsheet to enter more numbers.

Are you talking about the dual function ./up key? Because this could be disabled so you can use fn for arrows or numbers depending on num lock.
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Offline frogamic

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 04:37:58 »
This looks very promising! Do you have a pic of the plate and layout?

Here's a pic of the plate, don't have one of the layout just yet
35510-0
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Offline llovro

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 07:02:44 »
Looks really really nice. Good luck with this project. Something like this can be done with phantom I think. Neverthless this looks very promising. Are you going to make cnc machined case or layered? Also are you going to make a pcb or are you going to hand wire it?
Good luck with your project!

Offline frogamic

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 07:29:27 »
Looks really really nice. Good luck with this project. Something like this can be done with phantom I think. Neverthless this looks very promising. Are you going to make cnc machined case or layered? Also are you going to make a pcb or are you going to hand wire it?
Good luck with your project!

I think the phantom is one key too narrow for the numpad. I'm planning to handwire it, not sure on the case yet, possibly CNC as I'd like to avoid visible screw heads on the top.
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Offline MOZ

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 13:48:06 »
Interesting layout, why not add a another row at the bottom and then you can have the arrow keys in the proper config. And then you can have 4 extra programmable keys.

Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 14:42:23 »
One flaw in your design is for people who do number entry. Enter in a number, and want to shift cells on a spreadsheet to enter more numbers.

Are you talking about the dual function ./up key? Because this could be disabled so you can use fn for arrows or numbers depending on num lock.

I think the objection was from the perspective of someone who is entering lots of numbers with decimals simultaneously with using the arrow keys to maneuver through a spreadsheet. So they need access to both the up arrow and . immediately after entering a number. If they have to keep toggling num lock in that situation, they won't really be gaining any advantage from having the dedicated arrow keys.

Personally, I would consider a couple of alternatives. You could make the 0 key 1x1, and have a dedicated arrow key to the right of it. Or what might be even better for entering numbers: look at solutions that put the arrow keys in the right modifier area, so that your user can navigate with his left hand while entering numbers with his right.
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 September 2013, 14:57:08 by FoxWolf1 »
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Offline TheFlyingRaccoon

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 14:52:37 »
I think the objection was from the perspective of someone who is entering lots of numbers with decimals simultaneously with using the arrow keys to maneuver through a spreadsheet. So they need access to both the up arrow and . immediately after entering a number. If they have to keep toggling num lock in that situation, they won't really be gaining any advantage from having the dedicated arrow keys.

Personally, I would consider a couple of alternatives. You could make the 0 key 1x1, and have a dedicated arrow key to the right of it. Or what might be even better for entering numbers: look at solutions that put the arrow keys in the right modifier area, so that your user can navigate with his hand while entering numbers with his right.

Yes I agree. Something like this would work well.

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Offline MOZ

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 14:59:48 »
I think the objection was from the perspective of someone who is entering lots of numbers with decimals simultaneously with using the arrow keys to maneuver through a spreadsheet. So they need access to both the up arrow and . immediately after entering a number. If they have to keep toggling num lock in that situation, they won't really be gaining any advantage from having the dedicated arrow keys.

Personally, I would consider a couple of alternatives. You could make the 0 key 1x1, and have a dedicated arrow key to the right of it. Or what might be even better for entering numbers: look at solutions that put the arrow keys in the right modifier area, so that your user can navigate with his hand while entering numbers with his right.

Yes I agree. Something like this would work well.
Show Image


That is sweet, I would prefer that over the traditional numpad as an extension for say the GH60 or ergodox

Offline TheFlyingRaccoon

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 15:19:48 »
That is sweet, I would prefer that over the traditional numpad as an extension for say the GH60 or ergodox

I have my next project! I'll draw up some stuff in AutoCAD.  ;)
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Offline MOZ

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 15:33:51 »
That is sweet, I would prefer that over the traditional numpad as an extension for say the GH60 or ergodox

I have my next project! I'll draw up some stuff in AutoCAD.  ;)

I was thinking along the same lines. Let's collaborate.

Offline frogamic

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 15 September 2013, 17:08:30 »
One flaw in your design is for people who do number entry. Enter in a number, and want to shift cells on a spreadsheet to enter more numbers.

Are you talking about the dual function ./up key? Because this could be disabled so you can use fn for arrows or numbers depending on num lock.

I think the objection was from the perspective of someone who is entering lots of numbers with decimals simultaneously with using the arrow keys to maneuver through a spreadsheet. So they need access to both the up arrow and . immediately after entering a number. If they have to keep toggling num lock in that situation, they won't really be gaining any advantage from having the dedicated arrow keys.

Personally, I would consider a couple of alternatives. You could make the 0 key 1x1, and have a dedicated arrow key to the right of it. Or what might be even better for entering numbers: look at solutions that put the arrow keys in the right modifier area, so that your user can navigate with his left hand while entering numbers with his right.

You misunderstood my solution there, one of my main aims here was to have the numpad and arrows available at the same time. I meant that the adaptive functionality of the . key could be disabled probably with fn NumLock, and then if NumLock is on you hold fn to use the arrows, release to use the numbers or if NumLock is off hold fn for numbers, release for arrows. The fn key is in a very convenient and comfortable place to be used by the thumb of the right hand.

The 1x 0 key is another option, and keeps the arrow keys in their regular position relative to the rest of the keyboard, but then the fn key is in an inconvenient position to operate the home end delete keys which will be secondary on the numpad.

I'll finish off the layout picture tonight after work.
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Offline regack

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 15:37:12 »
I like it.  I think I'm going to borrow the concept, expand my 77key into an 80key and have something similar, but with one less row... I think I can safely survive without the / * and - keys on the keypad, numlock would just move (If I ever get around to building those, that is).  Also, not to derail your thread, but here's a stab at that 4x6 keypad I threw together.

35675-0

Offline TheFlyingRaccoon

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 16:10:51 »
I like it.  I think I'm going to borrow the concept, expand my 77key into an 80key and have something similar, but with one less row... I think I can safely survive without the / * and - keys on the keypad, numlock would just move (If I ever get around to building those, that is).  Also, not to derail your thread, but here's a stab at that 4x6 keypad I threw together.

(Attachment Link)

I made a case for your PCB. He is a picture.

What are the exact dimension of the PCB?
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Offline MOZ

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 16:36:38 »
Hahah, me and Raccoon were contemplating how to get the PCB done, and then you post Regack!

Great work.

Raccoon, once you finish on the case, let me know, I'll get it cut and sent over. Regack, if you don't mind me asking, can you share the PCB design if you feel it is complete, I'll try and get some quotes locally.

Offline TheFlyingRaccoon

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 16:39:47 »
Hahah, me and Raccoon were contemplating how to get the PCB done, and then you post Regack!

Great work.

Raccoon, once you finish on the case, let me know, I'll get it cut and sent over. Regack, if you don't mind me asking, can you share the PCB design if you feel it is complete, I'll try and get some quotes locally.

Once regack lets me know the dimensions of the PCB, I'll get to work on a acrylic layer case.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 16:43:31 »
Hahah, me and Raccoon were contemplating how to get the PCB done, and then you post Regack!

Great work.

Raccoon, once you finish on the case, let me know, I'll get it cut and sent over. Regack, if you don't mind me asking, can you share the PCB design if you feel it is complete, I'll try and get some quotes locally.

Once regack lets me know the dimensions of the PCB, I'll get to work on a acrylic layer case.

If you guys want to talk numpads, you can use my thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38963.0

:D
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Offline frogamic

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 16 September 2013, 19:37:20 »
Sounds like you'll all have shiny new numpads before I've even got a keyboard  :-\
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Offline frogamic

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 18 September 2013, 21:46:26 »
Just got a quote back for this plate and one for a 25% one handed board for $150NZ ($120US) in 1.5mm 304ss, this seems like a lot. :(
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Offline MOZ

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Re: Frogamic's 95% project
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 19 September 2013, 02:06:15 »
Just got a quote back for this plate and one for a 25% one handed board for $150NZ ($120US) in 1.5mm 304ss, this seems like a lot. :(

If it is acrylic, PM me, I can hook you up with something.