Author Topic: Topre Confusion  (Read 24597 times)

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Offline jonathanyu

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #50 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 08:42:51 »
People like different switch, and topre is just one of them.  Just like me, I like linear switch, so I am not a fan of topre

Offline ch_123

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #51 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 11:01:48 »
Is it the cost that makes people enjoy it so much? Is there no other option but to love it, once you've spent that kind of money on it?

I got my Topre keyboard for less than what I paid for my Filco TKL (in the days when I had a Filco TKL), and I like them, so I don't think it's that. I prefer them over most Cherry MX switches due to how smooth they are. I'm also quite fond of the HHKB layout. Would I buy a brand new one for nearly $300? I'll get back to you on that one...
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 October 2013, 11:05:33 by ch_123 »

Offline jmchargue

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #52 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 13:06:05 »
Dont mac books use Scissor switches?

This whole post is thoroughly uneducated.

now nobody thinks your opinion is worth much at all...

You guys are those like those kids in highschool who tell you that you don't actually like a band if you can't rattle off the birthdays of all the members.

Other than that, I ordered one of those MX samplers to try out some different switches... will wait to sell until I find a keyboard I like more.

Offline dante

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #53 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 13:32:17 »
They do have one thing that none of the other membrane keyboards on the market have: a 87 ANSI Tenkeyless.

The Microsoft Sidewinder X6 was just discontinued so the Realforce is the only game in town if that's what you're looking for.
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 October 2013, 13:43:06 by dante »

Offline jonathanyu

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 13:40:20 »
Is tp4 banned? I don't see anything ergodox related in this thread?!

Yes. :rolleyes:

He is banned again?

Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 13:52:23 »

Other than that, I ordered one of those MX samplers to try out some different switches... will wait to sell until I find a keyboard I like more.

If you want something that feels totally different though, I think blues might be a good place to start out. I know I did and I'm glad I started there. Still go back to it now and then bc it's just so much fun.

Offline ctbear

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #56 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 14:50:53 »
Topre switches felt like stiff rubber dome to me at first, but after a few weeks they did break in. They are closer to the Macbook's scissor switches than to MX browns, but by no means feel bad. Keep using it, try it for a few weeks more, I am sure you will feel differently after that.

Offline EpiRock

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #57 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 16:14:21 »
I hear a lot of people say that the Lexus IS-F feel like "an indescribable Toyota". I can describe it: it feels like a Toyota.

But really. It feels like my Toyota Corolla, but with a larger engine.

Is it the cost that makes people enjoy it so much? Is there no other option but to love it, once you've spent that kind of money on it?

Offline AKIMbO

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #58 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 18:34:18 »
Know topre, know peace. No topre, no peace.
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Offline ComradeSniper

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #59 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 18:39:30 »
This thread makes me nervous, my FC660C should hurry up and arrive.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #60 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 18:47:30 »
Topre feels so close to a standard rubber dome board I still feel it in no way warrants all the fanboyism and price jack. I'm not saying it feels the same, definitely better, but it's like the difference between 800 thread count sheets and 1200 thread count sheets.

Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #61 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 18:52:14 »
Know topre, know peace. No topre, no peace.

lewl~

This thread makes me nervous, my FC660C should hurry up and arrive.

have faith; you will be rewarded

Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #62 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 18:55:35 »
This thread makes me nervous, my FC660C should hurry up and arrive.

There is seriously no need to be nervous :)

Offline rowdy

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #63 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 20:10:46 »
Know topre, know peace. No topre, no peace.

:))
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline ohgodpleaseno

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #64 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 20:22:16 »
Topre feels so close to a standard rubber dome board I still feel it in no way warrants all the fanboyism and price jack. I'm not saying it feels the same, definitely better, but it's like the difference between 800 thread count sheets and 1200 thread count sheets.

I think this is my sentiment after I purchased my FC660C. Although I feel that the difference between standard rubber domes and Topre isn't very large, the manufacturing quality of the boards that Topre switches are on definitely makes up for the price a decent amount. The Type Heaven to me seems like a much better solution for those that think Topre boards are overpriced or just out of their budget, but enjoy the switch. Some Thorpe enthusiasts say that the Type Heaven is cheap and low quality, but I wonder if that's simply compared to an exceptional quality $2XX RealForce?

Offline Linkbane

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 20:27:24 »
Topre feels so close to a standard rubber dome board I still feel it in no way warrants all the fanboyism and price jack. I'm not saying it feels the same, definitely better, but it's like the difference between 800 thread count sheets and 1200 thread count sheets.

I think this is my sentiment after I purchased my FC660C. Although I feel that the difference between standard rubber domes and Topre isn't very large, the manufacturing quality of the boards that Topre switches are on definitely makes up for the price a decent amount. The Type Heaven to me seems like a much better solution for those that think Topre boards are overpriced or just out of their budget, but enjoy the switch. Some Thorpe enthusiasts say that the Type Heaven is cheap and low quality, but I wonder if that's simply compared to an exceptional quality $2XX RealForce?

But is it better than a Poker, Filco, Das, Leopold, etc? Is Topre's quality of keyboard significant enough that it would make an effect given that keyboards are very rarely damaged at all, or is it almost cosmetic in function?
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline ohgodpleaseno

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #66 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 21:19:32 »
...cut...
...cut...
But is it better than a Poker, Filco, Das, Leopold, etc? Is Topre's quality of keyboard significant enough that it would make an effect given that keyboards are very rarely damaged at all, or is it almost cosmetic in function?

I think the comparison of quality between different types of switches is somewhat confusing. Cherry switches are, in my eyes, so different from Thorpe that it seems they shouldn't be categorized as worse or better. On the other hand, Thorpe is seemingly a very high quality rubber dome solution. Additionally, the potential for "damage" I believe, is inherent in the material the different switches are made of.

Offline Michael

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 21:21:14 »

Offline Polymer

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #68 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 21:25:01 »
Is it the cost that makes people enjoy it so much? Is there no other option but to love it, once you've spent that kind of money on it?

That has already been debunked when the 660c came out...with a more affordable price point, new people got to try it..it wasn't incredibly more expensive than a normal Cherry MX board....and a bunch of new Topre fans were born...

Also, as many have pointed out, by the time you mod your Cherry board with high end PBT keycaps, the actual cost difference is quite minimal. 

It is ok to not like Topre.  I think a lot of people that don't like it struggle for reasons why others might...it must be really inconceivable.  Some people even think they can evaluate a keyboard after a few minutes or a few hours..it just isn't the same as using it for awhile.  Same with your Lexus/Toyota comparison...Do they share a lot of the same parts?  Sure..are there certain things familiar to an owner of both? Sure...but does a Lexus feel a lot more solid than a normal Toyota?  It most certainly does....

Do they feel like rubber domes to people?  Sure...because it has a rubber dome...but the stability, smoothness, solidness, feel, sound, etc..are different...They share a rubber dome but all the other parts are what differentiates the two and makes them feel different.  If you can't tell the difference that doesn't mean a lot of other people can't.  To be honest, I can't see how anyone that has used it for awhile can not feel the difference between the two.  Does that justify the price?  To some it does..to some it doesn't....Just because you can not appreciate the difference or the quality doesn't mean it isn't there.

I like Cherry MX as well...I think they're far better for gaming and as far as being able to customize them..they're light years ahead of Topre....If I had to pick only one type of keyboard for everything, I'd pick Cherry..because I don't like Topre for gaming....but since I don't have to pick...I use Topre boards for work, etc..and Cherry for gaming/all around stuff...

Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #69 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 21:36:48 »
Is it the cost that makes people enjoy it so much? Is there no other option but to love it, once you've spent that kind of money on it?

That has already been debunked when the 660c came out...with a more affordable price point, new people got to try it..it wasn't incredibly more expensive than a normal Cherry MX board....and a bunch of new Topre fans were born...

Also, as many have pointed out, by the time you mod your Cherry board with high end PBT keycaps, the actual cost difference is quite minimal. 

It is ok to not like Topre.  I think a lot of people that don't like it struggle for reasons why others might...it must be really inconceivable.  Some people even think they can evaluate a keyboard after a few minutes or a few hours..it just isn't the same as using it for awhile.  Same with your Lexus/Toyota comparison...Do they share a lot of the same parts?  Sure..are there certain things familiar to an owner of both? Sure...but does a Lexus feel a lot more solid than a normal Toyota?  It most certainly does....

Do they feel like rubber domes to people?  Sure...because it has a rubber dome...but the stability, smoothness, solidness, feel, sound, etc..are different...They share a rubber dome but all the other parts are what differentiates the two and makes them feel different.  If you can't tell the difference that doesn't mean a lot of other people can't.  To be honest, I can't see how anyone that has used it for awhile can not feel the difference between the two.  Does that justify the price?  To some it does..to some it doesn't....Just because you can not appreciate the difference or the quality doesn't mean it isn't there.

I like Cherry MX as well...I think they're far better for gaming and as far as being able to customize them..they're light years ahead of Topre....If I had to pick only one type of keyboard for everything, I'd pick Cherry..because I don't like Topre for gaming....but since I don't have to pick...I use Topre boards for work, etc..and Cherry for gaming/all around stuff...



10 out of 10



Offline EpiRock

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 21:45:20 »
Is it the cost that makes people enjoy it so much? Is there no other option but to love it, once you've spent that kind of money on it?

That has already been debunked when the 660c came out...with a more affordable price point, new people got to try it..it wasn't incredibly more expensive than a normal Cherry MX board....and a bunch of new Topre fans were born...

Also, as many have pointed out, by the time you mod your Cherry board with high end PBT keycaps, the actual cost difference is quite minimal. 

It is ok to not like Topre.  I think a lot of people that don't like it struggle for reasons why others might...it must be really inconceivable.  Some people even think they can evaluate a keyboard after a few minutes or a few hours..it just isn't the same as using it for awhile.  Same with your Lexus/Toyota comparison...Do they share a lot of the same parts?  Sure..are there certain things familiar to an owner of both? Sure...but does a Lexus feel a lot more solid than a normal Toyota?  It most certainly does....

Do they feel like rubber domes to people?  Sure...because it has a rubber dome...but the stability, smoothness, solidness, feel, sound, etc..are different...They share a rubber dome but all the other parts are what differentiates the two and makes them feel different.  If you can't tell the difference that doesn't mean a lot of other people can't.  To be honest, I can't see how anyone that has used it for awhile can not feel the difference between the two.  Does that justify the price?  To some it does..to some it doesn't....Just because you can not appreciate the difference or the quality doesn't mean it isn't there.

I like Cherry MX as well...I think they're far better for gaming and as far as being able to customize them..they're light years ahead of Topre....If I had to pick only one type of keyboard for everything, I'd pick Cherry..because I don't like Topre for gaming....but since I don't have to pick...I use Topre boards for work, etc..and Cherry for gaming/all around stuff...

You quoted my quotation of what the OP said. I was being sarcastic if you didn't know.

Offline Polymer

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 23:43:09 »
Yeah I thought I saw that previously but since it wasn't quoted I couldn't be bothered to look for the original..my bad...

Either way, the response to the quote (For the OP) is the same...

Offline SNF

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 06 October 2013, 23:49:42 »
You won't realize it's special until it's gone ;)

Offline jmchargue

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #73 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 00:49:53 »
All of these sensible, compromising responses have given me faith in the community. Well met, empathy is a tough thing to come by on the internet.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 04:05:21 »
All of these sensible, compromising responses have given me faith in the community. Well met, empathy is a tough thing to come by on the internet.

Just wait until someone has a Clark you really want, or vice versa!
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline ynrozturk

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #75 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 04:33:06 »
So far I've only tried MX Blues, Browns and Reds. Haven't come across a Black board yet, but I really want to try a Topre board. I'm still thinking of making the plunge to buy a HHKB 2, just for the hell of it. I know that the switches won't change my life or anything, but the curiosity is too high. And besides, the layout seems perfect for me, so I don't have much to lose. And I'm sure the Topre switches feel fine. It's just a matter of spending enough time with a board I guess.
IBM Model F | IMB Model M | Poker II MX Brown | Poker II MX Clear | Filco TKL MX Brown | Bastardized Razer Blackwidow TE MX Blue | Logitech G602 |  Cyborg R.A.T. 7 | | Logitech MX518 | Icemat  | Artisan Hien

Offline rowdy

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #76 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 04:38:44 »
So far I've only tried MX Blues, Browns and Reds. Haven't come across a Black board yet, but I really want to try a Topre board. I'm still thinking of making the plunge to buy a HHKB 2, just for the hell of it. I know that the switches won't change my life or anything, but the curiosity is too high. And besides, the layout seems perfect for me, so I don't have much to lose. And I'm sure the Topre switches feel fine. It's just a matter of spending enough time with a board I guess.

The biggest question with HHKB is whether you'd miss the arrow keys.  If you would consider Leopold FC660C.  If you don't mind using Fn key to get arrows, HHKB :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline ynrozturk

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 06:05:07 »
I thought about the Leopold, but I really dislike that Delete/Insert cluster. Makes the whole board appear a bit strange. Still looks decent, but I barely ever use the arrow keys so the HHKB 2 would be my choice.
IBM Model F | IMB Model M | Poker II MX Brown | Poker II MX Clear | Filco TKL MX Brown | Bastardized Razer Blackwidow TE MX Blue | Logitech G602 |  Cyborg R.A.T. 7 | | Logitech MX518 | Icemat  | Artisan Hien

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #78 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 06:34:50 »
Is tp4 banned? I don't see anything ergodox related in this thread?!

for like two weeks or something, he derailed a thread  ::)

Offline terran5992

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #79 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 08:31:49 »
He would have been all over this thread

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Offline Linkbane

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Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #80 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 09:17:14 »
But is it better than a Poker, Filco, Das, Leopold, etc? Is Topre's quality of keyboard significant enough that it would make an effect given that keyboards are very rarely damaged at all, or is it almost cosmetic in function?

I think the comparison of quality between different types of switches is somewhat confusing. Cherry switches are, in my eyes, so different from Thorpe that it seems they shouldn't be categorized as worse or better. On the other hand, Thorpe is seemingly a very high quality rubber dome solution. Additionally, the potential for "damage" I believe, is inherent in the material the different switches are made of.
None of the brands I mentioned make switches. I was talking about build quality.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 October 2013, 11:04:56 by Linkbane »
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline MTManiac

  • Posts: 274
  • Location: #yoloswag420
  • can't is the cancer of happen
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 09:36:44 »
Maybe that's why I love my shiba inu...

I would propose a second alternative, this face (and the fact they can fly around arabian nights style)


Offline MTManiac

  • Posts: 274
  • Location: #yoloswag420
  • can't is the cancer of happen
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #82 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 09:53:00 »
Topre feels so close to a standard rubber dome board I still feel it in no way warrants all the fanboyism and price jack. I'm not saying it feels the same, definitely better, but it's like the difference between 800 thread count sheets and 1200 thread count sheets.

ROFL comparing keyboard terminology to cloth terminology?

Well I guess it could be considered a fair comparison because they both are shrouded with a ****TON of misinformation and ignorant people spewing marketing diatribes while not understand what they are parroting...


The Truth About Thread Count

The high thread count story hit the bedding market in the mid to late 1990s and has since dominated all conversations about sheets.  Now over ten years later it's still the focus of questions asked the most by our customers. Honestly, we wish there was a simple answer. The truth is that it's just not that simple, thread count is one metric that should be looked at when considering sheets. At Linenplace, frankly, we don't even think it's the most important one.

Sheeting Quality Indicators

  1  Fiber Quality
  2  Yarn Size
  3  Finishing
  4  Thread Count & Construction

Fiber Quality:  100% cotton sheets are by far the most popular and widely used type of sheets. (We do also like silk, cotton/silk, modal and linen; but we’re going to focus on 100% cotton.) There is a huge variety in the quality of 100% cotton sheets. The highest quality cotton is long staple cotton. Staple refers to the length of the cotton fiber; the longer the fiber the better because it creates stronger and finer yarns. Among long staple cottons, the longest are Egyptian extra long staple and Pima (sometimes called Supima).

Yarn Size:  The fineness of each yarn is what the term yarn size refers to - the higher the yarn size, the finer the yarn.  (think of men’s suiting where they often speak of 100s wool etc)  Finer yarns allow for lighter, more supple fabric. The yarn size in quality sheets is typically between 40 and 100. Up to 120s may be used also, but are pretty rare (and the resulting product very expensive). Higher thread counts are created with finer yarns, as more of them can be woven into a square inch.  Also, super fine yarns can be twisted together, creating 2 ply yarns that can then be woven into sheeting.  When 2 ply yarns are made with a very high yarn size, they make a nice product that is not at all weighty or blanket-like.

Finishing:  After the cotton yarns are woven into a fabric, the fabric needs to be finished.  This includes singeing and mercerizing.  The singeing process is vital; it burns off the tiny fuzz that can later develop into pilling on your sheets.  Mercerizing is a treatment conducted under tension, in order to increase strength, luster, and affinity for dye.  Bed linens of lesser quality may not be singed or mercerized.

Thread Count & Construction:  Thread count is simply the number of threads per square inch of fabric. These consist of vertical threads (warp) and horizontal threads (weft) woven together.  Construction refers to how the thread count is achieved (# of warp and weft yarns, # of picks in the weft, use of 2 ply yarns etc.) To achieve higher thread counts, sometimes 2 ply yarns are used and sometimes multiple yarns (picks) are inserted into the weft.  The FTC has ruled that plied yarns should each only be counted as one thread for the purposes of thread count. This is not enforced, but in response the market has moved more toward single plies with multiple picks as the preferred method of achieving higher thread counts. In weave quality terms alone, the best fabric would be made with single ply yarns and have a single pick; but the highest thread count you can get with this type of construction is about 400. Above that, 2 ply yarns and/or multi-picks must be used.

weft & warp



The buzz about "single ply" in the last five years or so, was a reaction to customers feeling cheated by the concept of 2 ply. (meaning a 300 thread count construction made with 2 ply yarns and called a 600 thead count) But the "single ply" concept has its own problems, as stated above. Sheets made with "single ply" yarns but with 6 to 8 picks do not necessarily result in the best feeling or highest quality weave - - but they do achieve the higher thread count in a way deemed more correct by international standards and the FTC.

In a quality product, the incremental comfort value of thread counts over 300 is very little.  A 300 thread count can feel far superior to a 1000 thread count.  Thread count has become a simple metric used by marketing people to capture interest and impress with high numbers.  The problem with mass produced high thread count sheets is that to keep the price down, important elements of quality must be sacrificed, meaning in the end the customer gets a product with an impressive thread count but that probably feels no better (or even worse) than something with a lower thread count.

How does this happen?

    Weaving with 2 ply yarns that do not have a high enough yarn size so the end product feels heavy and blanket-like.
    Inserting multiple yarn threads (picks) into the weft.  These are often visible to the naked eye.  We’ve heard of as many as 8.  This practice increases the thread count but otherwise really has no practical or useful purpose. Depending on the number of picks and yarn size used it can also make the product feel heavy.

There is no simple answer to the thread count, ply and pick game; there are thousands of combinations that will make a beautiful product. We've seen excellent examples of every type of construcion (thanks to quality fiber, yarn size and finishing). Keep in mind that with higher thread counts, price and quality do tend to go hand in hand. An extremely high thread count sheet at a very low price is exactly what it sounds like: too good to be true. This is not to say that you have to spend a small fortune for quality sheets - just don't fall into the thread count trap. Unfortunately, a lot of companies don't make it easy to be well informed. At Linenplace, we do our best to present you with all the information you need to find the product that's right for you. We would like to encourage our customers to focus less on thread count and more on the other quality indicators (fiber quality, yarn size, finishing and construction).  We believe you will get a better, more comfortable product that truly represents quality and value.

Offline xyeLz

  • Posts: 23
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 11:14:36 »
I love my Topre's :)
ReΛlforce 87U - Capacitive (45g), ReΛlforce 103UB - Capacitive (Variable)

Offline jmchargue

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 68
  • Location: Boulder, CO
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #84 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 12:40:30 »
Topre feels so close to a standard rubber dome board I still feel it in no way warrants all the fanboyism and price jack. I'm not saying it feels the same, definitely better, but it's like the difference between 800 thread count sheets and 1200 thread count sheets.

ROFL comparing keyboard terminology to cloth terminology?

Well I guess it could be considered a fair comparison because they both are shrouded with a ****TON of misinformation and ignorant people spewing marketing diatribes while not understand what they are parroting...


The Truth About Thread Count

The high thread count story hit the bedding market in the mid to late 1990s and has since dominated all conversations about sheets.  Now over ten years later it's still the focus of questions asked the most by our customers. Honestly, we wish there was a simple answer. The truth is that it's just not that simple, thread count is one metric that should be looked at when considering sheets. At Linenplace, frankly, we don't even think it's the most important one.

Sheeting Quality Indicators

  1  Fiber Quality
  2  Yarn Size
  3  Finishing
  4  Thread Count & Construction

Fiber Quality:  100% cotton sheets are by far the most popular and widely used type of sheets. (We do also like silk, cotton/silk, modal and linen; but we’re going to focus on 100% cotton.) There is a huge variety in the quality of 100% cotton sheets. The highest quality cotton is long staple cotton. Staple refers to the length of the cotton fiber; the longer the fiber the better because it creates stronger and finer yarns. Among long staple cottons, the longest are Egyptian extra long staple and Pima (sometimes called Supima).

Yarn Size:  The fineness of each yarn is what the term yarn size refers to - the higher the yarn size, the finer the yarn.  (think of men’s suiting where they often speak of 100s wool etc)  Finer yarns allow for lighter, more supple fabric. The yarn size in quality sheets is typically between 40 and 100. Up to 120s may be used also, but are pretty rare (and the resulting product very expensive). Higher thread counts are created with finer yarns, as more of them can be woven into a square inch.  Also, super fine yarns can be twisted together, creating 2 ply yarns that can then be woven into sheeting.  When 2 ply yarns are made with a very high yarn size, they make a nice product that is not at all weighty or blanket-like.

Finishing:  After the cotton yarns are woven into a fabric, the fabric needs to be finished.  This includes singeing and mercerizing.  The singeing process is vital; it burns off the tiny fuzz that can later develop into pilling on your sheets.  Mercerizing is a treatment conducted under tension, in order to increase strength, luster, and affinity for dye.  Bed linens of lesser quality may not be singed or mercerized.

Thread Count & Construction:  Thread count is simply the number of threads per square inch of fabric. These consist of vertical threads (warp) and horizontal threads (weft) woven together.  Construction refers to how the thread count is achieved (# of warp and weft yarns, # of picks in the weft, use of 2 ply yarns etc.) To achieve higher thread counts, sometimes 2 ply yarns are used and sometimes multiple yarns (picks) are inserted into the weft.  The FTC has ruled that plied yarns should each only be counted as one thread for the purposes of thread count. This is not enforced, but in response the market has moved more toward single plies with multiple picks as the preferred method of achieving higher thread counts. In weave quality terms alone, the best fabric would be made with single ply yarns and have a single pick; but the highest thread count you can get with this type of construction is about 400. Above that, 2 ply yarns and/or multi-picks must be used.

weft & warp

Show Image


The buzz about "single ply" in the last five years or so, was a reaction to customers feeling cheated by the concept of 2 ply. (meaning a 300 thread count construction made with 2 ply yarns and called a 600 thead count) But the "single ply" concept has its own problems, as stated above. Sheets made with "single ply" yarns but with 6 to 8 picks do not necessarily result in the best feeling or highest quality weave - - but they do achieve the higher thread count in a way deemed more correct by international standards and the FTC.

In a quality product, the incremental comfort value of thread counts over 300 is very little.  A 300 thread count can feel far superior to a 1000 thread count.  Thread count has become a simple metric used by marketing people to capture interest and impress with high numbers.  The problem with mass produced high thread count sheets is that to keep the price down, important elements of quality must be sacrificed, meaning in the end the customer gets a product with an impressive thread count but that probably feels no better (or even worse) than something with a lower thread count.

How does this happen?

    Weaving with 2 ply yarns that do not have a high enough yarn size so the end product feels heavy and blanket-like.
    Inserting multiple yarn threads (picks) into the weft.  These are often visible to the naked eye.  We’ve heard of as many as 8.  This practice increases the thread count but otherwise really has no practical or useful purpose. Depending on the number of picks and yarn size used it can also make the product feel heavy.

There is no simple answer to the thread count, ply and pick game; there are thousands of combinations that will make a beautiful product. We've seen excellent examples of every type of construcion (thanks to quality fiber, yarn size and finishing). Keep in mind that with higher thread counts, price and quality do tend to go hand in hand. An extremely high thread count sheet at a very low price is exactly what it sounds like: too good to be true. This is not to say that you have to spend a small fortune for quality sheets - just don't fall into the thread count trap. Unfortunately, a lot of companies don't make it easy to be well informed. At Linenplace, we do our best to present you with all the information you need to find the product that's right for you. We would like to encourage our customers to focus less on thread count and more on the other quality indicators (fiber quality, yarn size, finishing and construction).  We believe you will get a better, more comfortable product that truly represents quality and value.

10/10, read the whole thing.

Offline fireforce7

  • Posts: 16
  • Location: Washington
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 12:45:36 »
I bought a Leopold FC660C (topre) about 2 months ago. I feel like the best description for it is a stiff/solid rubber dome. That's really just it. I was somewhat underwhelmed by the keyboard, but the benefits of it was the fact that it just gives a great consistency on the feel of what people love about rubber domes and very stiff keys that don't wobble and feels solid every press (not gummy when you bottom it out).

My opinion: was it worth the ~200 I paid?...probably not (more like 150 where all mechanical keyboards are if you ask me), but still feels good to me. If you prefer linear switches like me, don't expect it to replace your cherry mx red/black as the mainstay.

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

  • The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3026
  • Location: NCC-1701, USS Enterprise
  • Live long and prosper
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #86 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 12:50:48 »
Show Image


lol'ed at this, so true...

I will say this: thanks to this thread, I now know it will never be worth it for me to buy a Topre.
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

IBM Model M SSK | IBM Model F XT | IBM Model F 122 | IBM Model M 122 | Ducky YOTD 2012 w/ blue switches | Poker II w/ Blue switches | Royal Kludge RK61 w/ Blue switches

Offline fuzzybaffy

  • Posts: 553
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #87 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 15:18:46 »
Meh. People say Topre are just a "glorified" rubber dome, saying, it's just a rubber dome board with better quality, but... the improved quality is so much higher (than that of even Filco boards), that Topre boards are worth it, to me at least.

In other words, Topre boards have better build quality than regular rubber dome boards... but, they are better, in terms of build quality, BY A WHOLE LOT  (again this is with regards to build quality; let's not confuse this as a statement referring to other qualities, as someone did over in the Input Devices forum a couple of days ago; this is a statement on board BUILD QUALITY). So much so, that the increase in build quality is absolutely worth the price of a Topre board, to me.

And this is why I think it's disingenuous, or a half-lie, when people say, Topre are "just rubber dome" boards. Because when they say that, they completely ignore (perhaps on purpose) just how much better built Topre boards are.

Like I said, if someone recognizes the improved build quality of Topre boards, and yet dislike them out of subjective preference, I have absolutely no problem with that. Let's just not lie about what Topre boards are.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 October 2013, 15:40:12 by fuzzybaffy »

Offline AuRinBei

  • Posts: 161
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #88 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 15:53:06 »
Meh. People say Topre are just a "glorified" rubber dome, saying, it's just a rubber dome board with better quality, but... the improved quality is so much higher (than that of even Filco boards), that Topre boards are worth it, to me at least.

In other words, Topre boards have better build quality than regular rubber dome boards... but, they are better, in terms of build quality, BY A WHOLE LOT  (again this is with regards to build quality; let's not confuse this as a statement referring to other qualities, as someone did over in the Input Devices forum a couple of days ago; this is a statement on board BUILD QUALITY). So much so, that the increase in build quality is absolutely worth the price of a Topre board, to me.

And this is why I think it's disingenuous, or a half-lie, when people say, Topre are "just rubber dome" boards. Because when they say that, they completely ignore (perhaps on purpose) just how much better built Topre boards are.

Like I said, if someone recognizes the improved build quality of Topre boards, and yet dislike them out of subjective preference, I have absolutely no problem with that. Let's just not lie about what Topre boards are.

How exactly are Topre boards so much higher quality than a Filco, so as to justify even a $100 premium, in the case of the HHKB? Also, which Topre boards are we talking about. I can think of several well-known quality issues with the HHKB and the FC660C.
87u || Poker 2

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #89 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 16:08:51 »
Perhaps the ability to appreciate Topre switches is genetic, like the ability to taste certain compounds such as phenylthiocarbamide, or to see certain colors, or to discern musical pitch. Having or lacking the Topre gene is not a good or bad thing -- it is simply the way things are. Nevertheless, I am glad that I was apparently born with the Topre gene. ;)

Offline ctbear

  • Posts: 85
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #90 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 18:01:29 »
Meh. People say Topre are just a "glorified" rubber dome, saying, it's just a rubber dome board with better quality, but... the improved quality is so much higher (than that of even Filco boards), that Topre boards are worth it, to me at least.

In other words, Topre boards have better build quality than regular rubber dome boards... but, they are better, in terms of build quality, BY A WHOLE LOT  (again this is with regards to build quality; let's not confuse this as a statement referring to other qualities, as someone did over in the Input Devices forum a couple of days ago; this is a statement on board BUILD QUALITY). So much so, that the increase in build quality is absolutely worth the price of a Topre board, to me.

And this is why I think it's disingenuous, or a half-lie, when people say, Topre are "just rubber dome" boards. Because when they say that, they completely ignore (perhaps on purpose) just how much better built Topre boards are.

Like I said, if someone recognizes the improved build quality of Topre boards, and yet dislike them out of subjective preference, I have absolutely no problem with that. Let's just not lie about what Topre boards are.

How exactly are Topre boards so much higher quality than a Filco, so as to justify even a $100 premium, in the case of the HHKB? Also, which Topre boards are we talking about. I can think of several well-known quality issues with the HHKB and the FC660C.

If you asked me, I don't think Topre boards are worth that much extra. Maybe a little bit more than Filco's for the solid build quality and (usually) better PBT caps. But then Topre switches are patented so they are always going to be more expensive.

Offline Thimplum

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1101
  • Master of all Ponies
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #91 on: Mon, 07 October 2013, 20:54:52 »
DT35 > topre

where's that new guy to back me up

Are you talking about me?

THE DT35 IS JUST ANOTHER DOME KEYBOARD LIKE TOPRE. IT'S AWFUL.
TP4 FOR ADMIN 2013

Offline daerid

  • Posts: 4276
  • Location: Denver, CO
    • Rossipedia
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #92 on: Fri, 11 October 2013, 02:22:42 »

Have you considered getting some mx switches to test (I know its not the same as a full keyboard) or try and find some in a store you can demo?

I would love to, but I'm pretty sure no stores in my area have these. And like I said, on switch by switch basis, I'm sure I'd make a terrible decision.

Anyone on GH live in Boulder and would let me type on their keyboards? ;)

 I'm in Aurora, but all I got are ErgoDoxes with Clears.

Offline fuzzybaffy

  • Posts: 553
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #93 on: Fri, 11 October 2013, 04:02:27 »
Meh. People say Topre are just a "glorified" rubber dome, saying, it's just a rubber dome board with better quality, but... the improved quality is so much higher (than that of even Filco boards), that Topre boards are worth it, to me at least.

In other words, Topre boards have better build quality than regular rubber dome boards... but, they are better, in terms of build quality, BY A WHOLE LOT  (again this is with regards to build quality; let's not confuse this as a statement referring to other qualities, as someone did over in the Input Devices forum a couple of days ago; this is a statement on board BUILD QUALITY). So much so, that the increase in build quality is absolutely worth the price of a Topre board, to me.

And this is why I think it's disingenuous, or a half-lie, when people say, Topre are "just rubber dome" boards. Because when they say that, they completely ignore (perhaps on purpose) just how much better built Topre boards are.

Like I said, if someone recognizes the improved build quality of Topre boards, and yet dislike them out of subjective preference, I have absolutely no problem with that. Let's just not lie about what Topre boards are.

How exactly are Topre boards so much higher quality than a Filco, so as to justify even a $100 premium, in the case of the HHKB? Also, which Topre boards are we talking about. I can think of several well-known quality issues with the HHKB and the FC660C.

Well, do you or have you owned a Topre before? You talk as if you've owned the HHKB and FC600C... or did you merely read about the quality issues?

I can't speak for either HHKB or FC600C, but, I do own a Realforce 87U, and I've owned a Filco and a couple of Coolermaster boards (which are, IIRC, Costar boards) before.

That said, I think Topre has better quality parts/assembly in three areas:

1. Topre boards have a stiffer, and heavier body than Filco boards.
2. Topre keycaps are PBT vs. the ABS of Filco keycaps.
3. Topre switches are of much higher quality (more smooth and more solid) than Cherry MX switches.

So there are already three parts/areas, in which Topre boards are (from my observation) of higher quality: the chassis/body, keycaps, and key-switches.

If you put that in perspective, yea, I have no problem paying the $100 premium for a Topre board over Filco boards.

Also, if you see that a Topre Type Heaven goes for $150, which is about the price of a Filco, and that a full set of Topre PBT keycaps go for $110, then yes, a $260 Topre Realforce seems reasonable, because the Type Heaven is, from what I've read, pretty much a Realforce without the PBT keycaps.

This also tells us, the most likely reason why Topre Realforce boards go for so much, is because of the PBT keycaps. Now, I guess whether the keycaps are worth $110 can be up to debate, but a separate set of Topre PBT's cost $110, so I won't complain if the actual Realforce board goes for $260.

Offline AuRinBei

  • Posts: 161
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #94 on: Fri, 11 October 2013, 09:43:04 »
I have an FC660C. I got lucky I guess and got a case that doesn’t flex at all, but a lot of people got cases that had weak sides that would flex a lot when squeezed. I did get a pretty non-uniform board though. That might be an issue with Topre switches in general, but the fact remains that I have never used a Cherry MX board where I could tell the difference between any of the switches on the keyboard. The printing on the FC660C might be the worst I have ever seen though. I’m talking worse than any $5 keyboard I have ever used. It was wearing off after 2 days. That’s a pretty inexcusable flaw in a product that costs almost $200. As for the HHKB, I’ve never had one, but I know they have warping problems with the plastic on the front of the case. It might just be cosmetic, but still, it shouldn’t happen ever with something that costs $260. It also has pretty insubstantial feet, which is not something I would expect from a keyboard that doesn’t have a backplate. I’ve heard lots of people say that it slides around easily.
As for Topre switches being smoother and more solid, that might be true, but they are also less uniform, like I said above. They have a stated acceptable tolerance of 15g. I like them, but having uniform switches is more important to me than having smooth switches. It’s not like most MX switches feel super scratchy either, they’re just not as smooth.

87u || Poker 2

Offline Linkbane

  • Posts: 1534
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #95 on: Fri, 11 October 2013, 11:05:44 »
That said, I think Topre has better quality parts/assembly in three areas:

1. Topre boards have a stiffer, and heavier body than Filco boards.
2. Topre keycaps are PBT vs. the ABS of Filco keycaps.
3. Topre switches are of much higher quality (more smooth and more solid) than Cherry MX switches.
Also, if you see that a Topre Type Heaven goes for $150, which is about the price of a Filco, and that a full set of Topre PBT keycaps go for $110, then yes, a $260 Topre Realforce seems reasonable, because the Type Heaven is, from what I've read, pretty much a Realforce without the PBT keycaps.

This also tells us, the most likely reason why Topre Realforce boards go for so much, is because of the PBT keycaps. Now, I guess whether the keycaps are worth $110 can be up to debate, but a separate set of Topre PBT's cost $110, so I won't complain if the actual Realforce board goes for $260.

Topre switches use a rubber dome and have a shorter lifespan (30 vs 50 million) keystrokes than any MX switch, so you're incorrect there. 
For weight, you compare against a single brand. The simple fact that a Topre switch is larger and heavier (x87) would probably account for a significant amount of that, but wonderful. It weighs more, that's not indicative of build quality. A Unicomp fullsize weighs 5.5 pounds, so a TKL would weigh at least 3.5, making it much heavier, and in your comparison method, much better than a Topre. Topre falls again.

You're right, Topre does use PBT caps. They aren't double shot, and are certainly no thicker than the Vortex PBT which can be bought for about $35, and are double shot in any color. So, Topre falls for the third and most resounding time.

Topre is not superior to any other mechanical keyboard. I think that I'm safe in saying that anyone would rather have a mediocre board with the keyswitch that they prefer using than a strong aluminum, decorated and pimped keyboard with their most hated switch. It's about typing, not about whose keyboard stands up the best in a fight. I doubt that any keyboard warrior here would be more rough with their keyboard than slapping it in anger, and any steel-plated keyboard will take that just fine. Weight holds absolutely no weight.
« Last Edit: Mon, 09 December 2013, 16:24:26 by Linkbane »
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline Thimplum

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1101
  • Master of all Ponies
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #96 on: Fri, 11 October 2013, 12:24:46 »
That said, I think Topre has better quality parts/assembly in three areas:

1. Topre boards have a stiffer, and heavier body than Filco boards.
2. Topre keycaps are PBT vs. the ABS of Filco keycaps.
3. Topre switches are of much higher quality (more smooth and more solid) than Cherry MX switches.
Also, if you see that a Topre Type Heaven goes for $150, which is about the price of a Filco, and that a full set of Topre PBT keycaps go for $110, then yes, a $260 Topre Realforce seems reasonable, because the Type Heaven is, from what I've read, pretty much a Realforce without the PBT keycaps.

This also tells us, the most likely reason why Topre Realforce boards go for so much, is because of the PBT keycaps. Now, I guess whether the keycaps are worth $110 can be up to debate, but a separate set of Topre PBT's cost $110, so I won't complain if the actual Realforce board goes for $260.

Topre switches use a rubber dome and have a shorter lifespan (30 vs 50 million) keystrokes than any MX switch, so you're incorrect there. 
For weight, you compare against a single brand. The simple fact that a Topre switch is larger and heavier (x87) would probably account for a significant amount of that, but wonderful. It weighs more, that's not indicative of build quality. A Unicomp fullsize weighs 5.5 pounds, so a TKL would weigh at least 3.5, making it much heavier, and in your comparison method, much better than a Topre. Topre falls again.

You're right, Topre does use PBT caps. They aren't double shot, and are certainly no thicker than the Vortex PBT which can be bought for abotu $35, and are double shot in any color. So, Topre falls for the third and most resounding time.

Topre is not superior to any other mechanical keyboard. I think that I'm safe in saying that anyone would rather have a mediocre board with the keyswitch that they prefer using than a strong aluminum, decorated and pimped keyboard with their most hated switch. It's about typing, not about whose keyboard stands up the best in a fight. I doubt that any keyboard warrior here would be more rough with their keyboard than slapping it in anger, and any steel-plated keyboard will take that just fine. Weight holds absolutely no weight.

this
TP4 FOR ADMIN 2013

Offline daerid

  • Posts: 4276
  • Location: Denver, CO
    • Rossipedia
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #97 on: Fri, 11 October 2013, 13:53:44 »
Topre switches use a rubber dome and have a shorter lifespan (30 vs 50 million) keystrokes than any MX switch, so you're incorrect there.

Nope. Topre has been conservative with their numbers and recently revised their estimated lifespan to 50 million.

Offline fuzzybaffy

  • Posts: 553
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 11 October 2013, 14:30:11 »
Quote
Topre switches use a rubber dome and have a shorter lifespan (30 vs 50 million) keystrokes than any MX switch, so you're incorrect there.

Just because the switch uses rubber, doesn't mean it's cheaper to make. You're forgetting all the other parts that go into making the switch, namely the housing of the switches, the plungers, etc. Fact of the matter is, Topre switches are WAY smoother, and more solid than Cherry MX switches. To me, THAT is indicative of higher quality, because it means it took better machinery to cut the parts to make them fit tighter.

It's like super cars and their ****ty interiors. Yea... their interiors are absolute ****, but all the other parts of the car (like the engine) is what makes them more expensive than the average car.

Quote
For weight, you compare against a single brand. The simple fact that a Topre switch is larger and heavier (x87) would probably account for a significant amount of that, but wonderful. It weighs more, that's not indicative of build quality. A Unicomp fullsize weighs 5.5 pounds, so a TKL would weigh at least 3.5, making it much heavier, and in your comparison method, much better than a Topre. Topre falls again.

You're comparing it with a Unicomp, though. Yea, maybe a Unicomp may be heavier, but maybe all the other parts are cheaper to make? From what I've read, its quality is not quite up to par as the original Model M's. So, yea, maybe the Unicomp has the Topre beat when it comes to the weight of the chassis, but all its other parts, such as the switches don't cost as much.

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You're right, Topre does use PBT caps. They aren't double shot, and are certainly no thicker than the Vortex PBT which can be bought for abotu $35, and are double shot in any color. So, Topre falls for the third and most resounding time.

I don't know... did you look at the pictures of the Vortex PBT's? They look kinda cheap, and I've read reports of some of the space bars coming in warped: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37999.msg912701#msg912701, http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37999.msg912998#msg912998

Yea, Topre spacebars are ABS, but I say, you make 'em right, or none at all. :D

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Topre is not superior to any other mechanical keyboard. I think that I'm safe in saying that anyone would rather have a mediocre board with the keyswitch that they prefer using than a strong aluminum, decorated and pimped keyboard with their most hated switch.

Yea... you're assuming everybody hates Topre, though. I've used both Cherry MX and Topre switches, and I like Topre switches quite a lot.

Your bias is showing through, here.

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It's about typing, not about whose keyboard stands up the best in a fight. I doubt that any keyboard warrior here would be more rough with their keyboard than slapping it in anger, and any steel-plated keyboard will take that just fine. Weight holds absolutely no weight.

Yes, indeed, in the end it is about typing. Yet, I'm willing to bet when someone says they have a better typing experience with Topre, you would object to that, too. Which means, the problem is you, not the Topre switch.

Offline AuRinBei

  • Posts: 161
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Topre Confusion
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 11 October 2013, 16:12:04 »
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Just because the switch uses rubber, doesn't mean it's cheaper to make.

He's not saying it's cheaper to make, he's saying that it won't last as long. Topre recently upped their lifespan estimate to 50 million, but personally I think these numbers are all kind of bull****. I do know that rubber stiffens with age though, and there is a thread on here regarding old Topre keyboards feeling stiffer than new ones.

You should also probably start saying "Realforce," because there are a few different brands now, and they all seem to be pretty different. A lot of the qualities you're attributing to the Realforce can't be attributed to the other brands.

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I don't know... did you look at the pictures of the Vortex PBT's? They look kinda cheap, and I've read reports of some of the space bars coming in warped
They look fine to me, other than the font. I guess we'll find out when more people get them, but I haven't heard anything negative from the few who have a set already. As for warped long keys, that's just what happens with PBT. I'd rather take a little bit of time to straighten out a PBT spacebar than not have one at all, although I understand why some people don't really care about shine that much.
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