Author Topic: Ask Cherry Anything! (3/5-Answers Have Been Provided)  (Read 15458 times)

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Offline CorsairJames

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Ask Cherry Anything! (3/5-Answers Have Been Provided)
« on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:20:08 »
Hi guys,

If there is ever a place where people were interested in getting answers from Cherry, I'd assume this is the place! With the cooperation of Cherry, we are able to host a "Ask Cherry Anything" typ of discussion. This will allow keyboard enthusiasts, such as you all here, to ask and get answers to questions directly from the source. Whether its about the RGB project, Cherry MX Switches, etc. feel free to ask anything you'd like to know more about. I created a Facebook discussion here: http://on.fb.me/1g88AoN

After about a week, I will collect all the questions and pass them on. Then they will answer them, email me back, and I'll post it here to share. If you don't have a FB account or don't care to use one, post it on this thread so I can track the questions.

Feel free to PM me if there is anything you're unsure of, or you can ask me directly here.

EDIT:

The answers can be found now on this post: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54697.msg1247237#msg1247237
« Last Edit: Wed, 05 March 2014, 17:32:29 by CorsairJames »

Offline Flyersfan1

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:21:32 »
Looking forward to this!
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:21:44 »
Did the material in Black stems change over time? If so, are there known dates as to when the material was changed?

Offline Wildcard

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:23:28 »
Cherry could you give me us a list of all the commercial customers whom you have built custom boards for. And as a follow up question, what are the model numbers of said boards?

Also to piggyback off of CPT. When did the MX blues change? Why were the new (non vintage) switch tops created?
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:25:12 by Wildcard »

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:24:30 »
Did the material in Black stems change over time? If so, are there known dates as to when the material was changed?

Good question!!

I'd also love to know why some batches of brand new switches have very noticeable friction while others don't.  It's not a matter of factory lubrication either.  I was under the impression that they come from the same factory, so I'm curious why such variation.

Also, please release some windowed Cherry novelty caps for us in Row E and Row B for us enthusiasts :D

 
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:25:32 »
Are there Cherry Hall Effect Switch keyboards? Could we do a special order?

Do MX Whites have special or extra lubing from the factory?

What is the normal lube used on MX switches?

Are MX Whites still being made? Or are they being phased out?

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:27:05 »
Are any of the cherry MX switches being discontinued?

Are white mx switches factory lubed? What makes the white mx click different than blue mx?

What sort of testing if any does cherry do to determine the variance in the weights of the MX switch springs?

edit: ninja'd mostly  :p

Offline Wildcard

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:27:36 »
 Are there any plans to bring the G80-5000 back due to the rise in demand for ergo boards?

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:29:36 »
Will there ever be an MX Purple switch?  :eek:
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Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:33:51 »
Is it true Logitech has placed a huge order for MX Brown switches? If so, how does ZF/Cherry anticipate keeping up with the MX Brown order and the other switches?

Does Cherry plan on partnering with other companies like MechanicalKeyboards.com to offer switches/stabilizer kits?


Offline Wildcard

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:35:01 »
Are there, or have there been any plans to redesign cherry stabilizers?

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:39:43 »
Are there, or have there been any plans to redesign cherry stabilizers?

^^ to add to this what about having white and/or translucent/clear stabilizers instead of black.

Offline Photekq

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 15:50:41 »
Did the material in Black stems change over time? If so, are there known dates as to when the material was changed?

Good question!!

I'd also love to know why some batches of brand new switches have very noticeable friction while others don't.  It's not a matter of factory lubrication either.  I was under the impression that they come from the same factory, so I'm curious why such variation.

Also, please release some windowed Cherry novelty caps for us in Row E and Row B for us enthusiasts :D

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Offline dorkvader

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 16:04:35 »
We know that hirose was cherry's official distributor in Japan for some time. Can you explain, then, why the hirose / cherry switches have different cross stems than international cherry switches?

For you people at home, here's a picture:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Orange

Offline tricheboars

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 16:06:50 »
Who is the source for Cherry POM caps found on many G80 keyboards? 
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Offline lowpoly

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 16:21:23 »
Why is the Fujitsu Siemens KBPC-E so similar to the MX5000 but yet entirely different?

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Offline Snarfangel

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 16:24:25 »
What's the cheapest place in the U.S.  to buy about 140 of Cherry part number 8371-0003?

Hey, you said to ask Cherry anything!

In case anyone is wondering, those are the 1x1 keycaps/lenses for an SPOS, specifically the G86-63400. I need them for my new acquisition. Some places have a MOQ of 250 or 400, and I've seen prices online from 33 cents apiece to quoted prices of several dollars apiece, the latter which is frankly ridiculous. So I have been sending out emails, and hey, Cherry offered to help.  :))

Offline Zeal

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 16:42:25 »
Could Cherry please release an official catalogue (with part numbers) of all the different MX Switches that they have ever manufactured? Alongside with the colour of the stem next to the description? The 1994 one is a bit outdated and doesn't include all of their current offerings.

Does Cherry have any plans on manufacturing new MX switch types? I noticed that Cherry has omitted some letters in their part numbers. Are they reserved for future switch types?
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Offline CorsairJames

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 16:53:42 »
Great initial response. Keep it going as I'll be checking it up on a daily basis for a week before I sort all the questions out.

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 17:16:17 »
I wish :°(

All the stuff I desperately want to know, is mostly sunk like Atlantis. We did have breakthrough last year: HaaTa found some strange Cherry switches, which I put to my contact in ZF US (Ed Ferraton). He asked Germany, who recognised it as being similar to an M10, but they suspected it was fake. Ed had a rummage and found a data sheet for the M11, and that was it! Perfect match. So we assume M10 existed (as that's all Germany remembers), and we have physical proof of the M11. We saved the knowledge of two switches from complete extinction. However, we really are on the edge of losing every last trace of data from pre-MX now.

However, what would be exceptionally useful, is a copy of every Keyboards & Switches, and Switches & Keyboards catalogues that they have in their archives. I only have 1973, 1974, and 1982 as PDF.

Q: Are any Keyboards & Switches/Switches & Keyboards catalogues still kept on file at Cherry, and are Cherry able to officially release any of them to the community/wiki?

I've tried Hirose directly and had no luck finding out anything about their M8 and MX switches, and we won't solve all of yab's custom batches (yellow, Alps mount, etc), but if we can fill in some of these intermediate years for their mainstream switch range, we may get M10 and M11 details, suggested start dates for known switches, a suggestion of what went on with MX White and MX Blue, and maybe even a clue as to when and why Cherry changed from M6 to M7 part numbers (no-one left at Cherry seems to have any idea).

OK, here's a really evil one — answer this and they can have a whole bag of gold stars:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45470.0

See that Cherry USA keyboard? That's a Cherry PCB, onto which is mounted a block of "praying hands" switches.

Q: Who made the "praying hands" monobloc switch assembly used in the Cherry USA–made DECwriter LA36(?) keyboard? (See URL above for details)

It may be the same company who made many other DEC keyboards of that design (e.g. DEC Gigi, VT100); I don't need to know why DEC had such a frankenboard constructed; I simply want to know who made the switch block. It will be either Hi-Tek Corporation or Stackpole Components Corporation; I'm trying to get manufacturer confirmations to strengthen my theory of how you differentiate the Hi-Tek and Stackpole versions of those early monobloc assemblies, so this would be another important data point.

(Edited to contain direct questions!)
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 February 2014, 19:10:13 by Daniel Beardsmore »
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 17:51:57 »
What I would most like to see is a complete catalog of all MX keyboards... preferably with color pictures... and for all models no longer in production complete documentation of technical specs, pcb schematics what protocols they speak and so on so we can more easily repair them/adapt them to modern computer systems.

Offline C5Allroad

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:02:30 »
1.Why is Cherry choosing Corsair over other companies for RGB?
2. Will Corsair ever offer clears?

Offline demik

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:09:57 »
Dear cherry. Why aren't you topre.

Love, the topre elite.


But really, can we have different colored clicky switches? And heavier (than green) clicky switches?
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:11:29 by demik »
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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:18:55 »
Dear cherry. Why aren't you topre.

Love, the topre elite.


But really, can we have different colored clicky switches? And heavier (than green) clicky switches?

Cherry MX Clicky grey!
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Offline ChronoBodi

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:23:51 »
Why is Cherry MX Clears so hard to get? I prefer them to Browns now, they're like the beefy version of Browns.

If Greens is somewhat available to Cooler Master, there should be option for Clears.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:25:05 »
Why is Cherry MX Clears so hard to get? I prefer them to Browns now, they're like the beefy version of Browns.

If Greens is somewhat available to Cooler Master, there should be option for Clears.

They're readily available at Mechanicalkeyboards.com.

Offline ChronoBodi

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:29:13 »
Why is Cherry MX Clears so hard to get? I prefer them to Browns now, they're like the beefy version of Browns.

If Greens is somewhat available to Cooler Master, there should be option for Clears.

They're readily available at Mechanicalkeyboards.com.

Yea.... i meant as in full built keyboards with them in it already. Anyone can get individual switches, getting actual keyboards with them is the hard part.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:31:15 »
I meant as in full built keyboards with them in it already. Anyone can get individual switches, getting actual keyboards with them is the hard part.

You do know Cherry doesn't decide what switches goes into say a CoolerMaster or a Ducky keyboard right? That's up to the company.

Offline damorgue

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:34:20 »
Were the molds for the switch housings designed and produced before the stem mounts where finalized?

The notches in the housings to allow for the cylindrical stem mount look a lot like modifications done afterwards.

Offline C5Allroad

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:37:57 »
Will more different types of switches be available one day?

Offline HPE1000

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:41:44 »
Some awesome questions here, much better than what I can come up with off the top of my head.

Sorry if someone asked already and I read over it.

Why do click switches have a little bump, or mold mark(?) on the top of the switch?
It is present on blues, greens and whites, but not on any of the linear or tactile switches from what I have seen.

Not a great picture, but like this

The little bump to the left of the blue stem.


Also, will super black switches ever be produced again?
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:43:25 by HPE1000 »

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 19:06:04 »
Were the molds for the switch housings designed and produced before the stem mounts where finalized?

The notches in the housings to allow for the cylindrical stem mount look a lot like modifications done afterwards.

This is the patent for the MX switch:

http://www.google.com/patents/US4467160

I don't know if that helps you any — the only major change appears to be the shape of the movable contact. Note that the patent is about hysteresis, not sound!

So there's another question:

Q: When designing the Cherry MX switch, how relevant was the click sound to the design? At what point did Cherry start marketing blue switches for their click sound instead of for the movement differential (hysteresis)?
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Offline AKIMbO

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 21:44:17 »
Will there ever be an MX Purple switch?  :eek:

Yes, this! I want ergo clears stock from the cherry factory.
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Offline jonathanyu

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 22:30:54 »
where did the pbt scooped f&j keycaps' mod go  :mad:

Offline Photekq

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 22:36:31 »
where did the pbt scooped f&j keycaps' mod go  :mad:
That's a question for BSP I think.. Which reminds me..

Who manufactured the spacebars/ISO enters/short left shifts for your keyboards that used sublimation dyed PBT keycaps?
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 22:48:21 »
Cherry says they make some keys in house still, like those above... and if that's not true they probably won't tell us since I have asked about getting those keys many many many times. They also outright refuse to sell keycap separate for some reason. It's really annoying since no other manufacturer seem to have those particular keys in Cherry profile either.

Offline jabar

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 23:02:46 »
When designing keyboards, how does/did Cherry determine the importance of NKRO in production keyboards? Some programmable ones are obvious (G80-2100), but NKRO seems haphazardly applied elsewhere.

Are 5mm LEDs a possibility with an updated version of MX?

When Cherry used to manage doubleshot keycap production, were use of other plastics (PBT, POM) ever explored?

What is the full list of production MX switch types?

Also, sell me a G80-2000, thanks!
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Offline Photekq

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 23:10:08 »
Cherry says they make some keys in house still, like those above... and if that's not true they probably won't tell us since I have asked about getting those keys many many many times. They also outright refuse to sell keycap separate for some reason. It's really annoying since no other manufacturer seem to have those particular keys in Cherry profile either.
Interesting.. That is quite annoying if they do still have the ability to make these keycaps. It's odd that they'd get BSP to produce all the keys except those few keys though.

Also, sell me a G80-2000, thanks!
Me too please! ;D

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Offline demik

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 23:12:44 »
Dear cherry. Why aren't you topre.

Love, the topre elite.


But really, can we have different colored clicky switches? And heavier (than green) clicky switches?

Cherry MX Clicky grey!

Interesting. Wish they were another color. Grey is so boring.
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Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 23:31:26 »
I meant as in full built keyboards with them in it already. Anyone can get individual switches, getting actual keyboards with them is the hard part.

You do know Cherry doesn't decide what switches goes into say a CoolerMaster or a Ducky keyboard right? That's up to the company.
Sure, but come on, Cap, when the "Code" keyboard with clears appears, sells out within hours, and is never restocked, there has to be something else going on. Surely WASDkeyboards would have preferred to produce more units to meet demand, especially seeing how used Code boards now fetch 50-100% over original sale price in the aftermarket. But instead, they switch to MX greens?

Needless to say, it's also my question to Cherry if they know the reason why MX clear switch keyboards are so rare in the marketplace. I don't expect anything nefarious is going on, but there has to be a logical reason for this.

Offline lowpoly

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 13 February 2014, 03:15:18 »
They also outright refuse to sell keycap separate for some reason.
Probably not talking about the same here but as far as I understand it, the symbols are applied after the caps are already mounted to the 'boards. Which means they have to take keyboards out of the production line and manually remove the caps to be able to sell them to you. The logistics required here with a company of that size are probably more expensive than somebody just buying a complete 'board.

« Last Edit: Thu, 13 February 2014, 03:17:34 by lowpoly »

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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 13 February 2014, 07:59:31 »
I meant as in full built keyboards with them in it already. Anyone can get individual switches, getting actual keyboards with them is the hard part.

You do know Cherry doesn't decide what switches goes into say a CoolerMaster or a Ducky keyboard right? That's up to the company.
Sure, but come on, Cap, when the "Code" keyboard with clears appears, sells out within hours, and is never restocked, there has to be something else going on. Surely WASDkeyboards would have preferred to produce more units to meet demand, especially seeing how used Code boards now fetch 50-100% over original sale price in the aftermarket. But instead, they switch to MX greens?

I guess I don't care as much about switches on stock keyboards as others since I don't mind modding keyboards to have switches I want.



On Topic: Does Cherry/ZF's USA division still make any switches or keyboards?

Offline kod

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 13 February 2014, 09:32:37 »

Sure, but come on, Cap, when the "Code" keyboard with clears appears, sells out within hours, and is never restocked, there has to be something else going on. Surely WASDkeyboards would have preferred to produce more units to meet demand, especially seeing how used Code boards now fetch 50-100% over original sale price in the aftermarket. But instead, they switch to MX greens?

I thought wasdkeyboards claimed that lack of supply for clears was the reason for not restocking?

Offline C5Allroad

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 13 February 2014, 09:35:30 »
I don't think so. Keycool has some boards with clears.

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 13 February 2014, 09:49:20 »
They also outright refuse to sell keycap separate for some reason.
Probably not talking about the same here but as far as I understand it, the symbols are applied after the caps are already mounted to the 'boards. Which means they have to take keyboards out of the production line and manually remove the caps to be able to sell them to you. The logistics required here with a company of that size are probably more expensive than somebody just buying a complete 'board.



I've always requested blank key... and they are not formed on the ****ing keyboards.  I really can't see how it would be so much inconvenience for them to run X keycaps and put them in a box for shipment instead send to keyboard assembly.

Offline Fire Brand

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #45 on: Thu, 13 February 2014, 14:03:29 »
Q: What is the favorate switch/overall most commonly used switch used by Cherry workers within their job?

Q: What Keyboard/Switch does the Head/CEO/Big Cheese use to type on daily?

Thought these may be a bit more of a fun set questions to ask also nice to know what the Cherry folks like to type on ( Maybe they are all secretly Topre users O: ) Also I just wanted to know what the big cheese uses to type on :)
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Offline Snarfangel

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #46 on: Thu, 13 February 2014, 14:28:23 »
Q: What is the favorate switch/overall most commonly used switch used by Cherry workers within their job?


I bet the answer will be a bunch of BS.

Don't look at me like that!  :eek: Everyone knows Model M's last forever. Cherry isn't going to waste money on new keyboards.  :p


Offline Lu_e

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 13 February 2014, 15:38:46 »
- Surely Cherry Corp. has seen a growing demand for their MX switches, has this caused them to expand into more factories than before?

- Would Cherry ever allow the TV show 'How its Made' to do a segment on MX switches?

Just say NO to ABS keycaps

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 13 February 2014, 15:40:15 »
- Would Cherry ever allow the TV show 'How its Made' to do a segment on MX switches?

^^ yes 1000x :thumb:

Offline Zeal

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Re: Ask Cherry Anything!
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 13 February 2014, 15:42:05 »
- Would Cherry ever allow the TV show 'How its Made' to do a segment on MX switches?

^^ yes 1000x :thumb:

That would be cool to watch :)
But I think the majority of the viewers will be confused why they care and continue to use their Rubber domes.
        "Bird have wing, bird will fly. Henry had wings.  Henry now fly." -Sent