[IC] full PBT (spacebar included), gray or beige set

[jdeblese]

would adding 2 1.5u change anything?

The 1.5u keys we're missing are rare keys like F1-F12, arrows, or SUPER, which it wouldn't hurt to add if it didn't drive up the price too much. We could also add in already-existing keys, such as a vertical 1.5u TAB, or more of the other keys in the set. If I look at the results from my optimizer, however, it tends to want to add 2u keys rather than 1.5u keys at this point.

Just did a simulation run with no FN, and here's the suggested 21-key layout: as you can see, the only 1.5u key it added is GUI (SUPER), and for the rest it added 2u keys.

More

21 keys, with:
  mean coverage 78.0%
    std. deviation 18.3%
  median coverage 79.2%
  minimum coverage 16.7%
  maximum coverage 100.0%
  13 mean extra keys
('1x2', u'KEY_Spacebar')
('1x2', u'KEY_Spacebar')
('1x2', u'KEY_Control')
('1x2', u'KEY_Shift')
('1x2', u'KEY_ReturnEnter')
('1x2', u'KEY_DeleteForward')
('1x2', u'KEY_Escape')
('1.5x1', u'KEY_Escape')
('1.5x1', u'KEY_Shift')
('1.5x1', u'KEY_Shift')
('1.5x1', u'KEY_ReturnEnter')
('1.5x1', u'KEY_GraveAccent_Tilde')
('1.5x1', u'KEY_GUI')
('1.5x1', u'KEY_Dash_Underscore')
('1.5x1', u'KEY_Equal_Plus')
('1.5x1', u'KEY_SingleQuote_DoubleQuote')
('1x1.5', u'KEY_LeftBracket_LeftBrace')
('1x1.5', u'KEY_RightBracket_RightBrace')
('1x1.5', u'KEY_Slash_Question')
('1x1.5', u'KEY_Tab')
('1x1.5', u'KEY_DeleteForward')

Assuming we're not trying to reduce the size of the set, are there 1.5u keys that people feel are missing and would like to see instead of FN or SHIFT?

EDIT: How about a 2u blue enter?

[squarefrog]

True...

I would find it weird to have one mod legended and one blank. It gives me an idea, however: what if we take a very common legend, and exclude it completely so that *all* uses of that key are blank? Say, for instance, no FN keys, use blanks instead, and use the three keys freed up for other things?

I don't know that we'll gain anything from excluding the most common keys to include a keys that will only be useful for a minor user group. If, on the other hand, we exclude some keys to make the set smaller and therefore cheaper and more accessible then fair enough.

I'd rather have 1 out of 2 legends than no legends!

[jdeblese]

Oh boy, opposite preferences

Justnits, you voiced your concern earlier. Are there keys you feel are either excessive or missing?

[squarefrog]

Definitely +1 on the blue enter

[Matt3o]

I believe that would increase the price slightly, but blue enter sounds good to me

[Matt3o]

sorry guys but we already have one 1.5u FN in the pro kit, I know it's not vertical, but still...

[ideus]

so this would be the ergodox

Show Image

I may be moved to reconsider my choice to don't own an edox, just for the sake of having a board to display this nice set  ;) . I am impressed with the time Matt has invested in getting this one done as well as the other sets for regular boards.


Thank you again.

[jdeblese]

sorry guys but we already have one 1.5u FN in the pro kit, I know it's not vertical, but still...

Ok, no problem. If no one else chimes in with a suggestion for that key, I'd switch it back to the vertical TAB it was before.

[Matt3o]

I'm a little tired now, I'll review them once again tomorrow. I'm still not sure about a couple of things. I added a Lost+Found set where I put all the keys I was suggested and I didn't know where to place. Also the Ergodox is still not defined, but I hope we all agree on the number of keys at least. The nerdom maybe has become too big. I might remove some keys, still waiting for your feedback on the colors (do we need the light gray ones?).

The full set is once again in a imgur album.

http://imgur.com/a/DqwYR

Thanks.

[rowdy]

I'm a little tired now, I'll review them once again tomorrow. I'm still not sure about a couple of things. I added a Lost+Found set where I put all the keys I was suggested and I didn't know where to place. Also the Ergodox is still not defined, but I hope we all agree on the number of keys at least. The nerdom maybe has become too big. I might remove some keys, still waiting for your feedback on the colors (do we need the light gray ones?).

The full set is once again in a imgur album.

http://imgur.com/a/DqwYR

Thanks.

Aw, dropped the YO kit?

[ideus]

I'm a little tired now, I'll review them once again tomorrow. I'm still not sure about a couple of things. I added a Lost+Found set where I put all the keys I was suggested and I didn't know where to place. Also the Ergodox is still not defined, but I hope we all agree on the number of keys at least. The nerdom maybe has become too big. I might remove some keys, still waiting for your feedback on the colors (do we need the light gray ones?).

The full set is once again in a imgur album.

http://imgur.com/a/DqwYR

Thanks.

Being now 1 AM Frankfurt time you should be almost in bed.


Regarding Nerdom, It would be important for interested parties to express their opinion. I am interested only in a few keys as souvenirs, in special GH, DT, the sad mac, and the robot. But if the set cost is high, I may not buy it. I think that would the case of most. Thus, it would be better to keep its cost low.

[tbc]

whats the pricing deal with extra keys for ergodox kit? I would hope people would be willing to pay $5 - $10 extra for a more complete set; it's not like you're going to get a chance to complete it in the future and you'll be pretty upset if you change your future layout and those two keys you rejected would have made it look awesome.  I'm personally willing to just buy the entire text mod set to get the 1.5x horizontal tab if it's not in the ergodox set; it's expensive for one key, but I'm personally willing to make that sacrifice (sorry for being rude; not trying to showoff/guilt trip - just making it public for survey reasons).

PLEASE don't drop YO kit.  Its really standout when combined with RGB kit.

personally, I don't see the appeal of the nerdom 1.25x keys at all... did someone specifically request them?  I'm buying the set mainly for that zoidberg face and GH key

[mashby]

matt3o -- with every revision, I see more-and-more of my money flying out of my wallet. This set just keeps getting better! 

[wuqe]

Also loving the new updates. Ergodox looks great with new Fn verticals.

I'll be buying the standard base mod set for my Ergodox.

[stoic-lemon]

I'm a little tired now, I'll review them once again tomorrow. I'm still not sure about a couple of things. I added a Lost+Found set where I put all the keys I was suggested and I didn't know where to place. Also the Ergodox is still not defined, but I hope we all agree on the number of keys at least. The nerdom maybe has become too big. I might remove some keys, still waiting for your feedback on the colors (do we need the light gray ones?).

The full set is once again in a imgur album.

http://imgur.com/a/DqwYR

Thanks.

Being now 1 AM Frankfurt time you should be almost in bed.


Regarding Nerdom, It would be important for interested parties to express their opinion. I am interested only in a few keys as souvenirs, in special GH, DT, the sad mac, and the robot. But if the set cost is high, I may not buy it. I think that would the case of most. Thus, it would be better to keep its cost low.

I agree. This kit is really a 'It would be cool' rather than a 'I must own these.' I'm personally only interested in one or two of those, and would probably never use the others. If it comes down to it, I don't mind sacrificing the ones I am partial to. I'm only interested in the Amiga A if there are two of them with opposite colors as in one of the previous mock ups. The same goes for the Star Wars symbols. As for the others, I'm not too attached to them and this set would be the first I'd cut when it comes to saving money to allow me to buy other sets.

Having said that, I won't cry or throw my toys out of the pram if the keys I like are dropped.

[justnits]

Oh boy, opposite preferences

Justnits, you voiced your concern earlier. Are there keys you feel are either excessive or missing?

sorry for the late reply, i blame the different time zone.

i feel that the 3 shifts, 2 enter and 2 delete keys are excessive.
but of course, i understand that it'll benefit those who use them on either 2x or 1.5, thus covering more users.

i'm actually fine with this setup. just that i have to use 2x Del as backspace or the backspace from mod kit with a clueless horizontal text on a vertical layout

[jacobolus]

Is there really demand for a key that has “space” printed on it, for the ergodox kit? I’d guess most folks would be happy with a blank key for a spacebar.

[justnits]

Is there really demand for a key that has “space” printed on it, for the ergodox kit? I’d guess most folks would be happy with a blank key for a spacebar.

^+1

[CommonCurt]

another test for the nerdom

Show Image

I like the Amiga A , and Star Wars keys like this.  Also like the Zoidberg cap.

[jdeblese]

Replace SPACE with a blank, or replace it with another key and assume people can use the 1-hand blanks to supply spaces? I'm fine with either: no particular attachment to a SPACE legend, and the blanks are fairly cheap.

I'll run the numbers overnight, see what my simulator suggests as replacement. Backspace, probably

[tbc]

PLEASE add in vertical 2x backspace!

i totally missed how silly it is to have space as a legend

while you're at it, put in 2x control

[justnits]

lol!! stop inflating the price for ergodox kit!  )

[ideus]

Ergodoxers: There should be a balance between options and price. Options may be close to actually required, and farther to just wanted, to keep the price at a better bracket. Consider also that demand for ergo should be lower than other sets.

[tbc]

but that space key really is weird now that people pointed it out lol.

[squarefrog]

PLEASE add in vertical 2x backspace!

i totally missed how silly it is to have space as a legend

while you're at it, put in 2x control

Vertical 2x backspace is included in in the modifiers set, so theres little point adding it here. I dont use forward del, so I'm just going to use del as my backspace.

That blue enter is awesome!

[Ozric]

what about this?

Show Image

Personally I think the there should be Winkeys with Tux, FreeBSD logo and Xorg logo, to make them more relevant for people that do not use Windows.

[LechnerDE]

My 2cents concerning the Nerdom Kit:

The main appeal of this set for me is the classic and clean look. Therefore I will never go full rainbow and replace all F-Keys with fancy novelty keys.
I can see myself using them as ESC or maybe replace "Pause" or something with them. Therefore I'd prefer them to be in Mod Color (darker grey)

The only keys I really want are: Deskthority, Geekhack, the "Matt3o" Robot and maybe Zoidberg. Maybe you could add a Phantom Mask to that?

I am always up for novelty keys and I don't mind paying for a couple of keys I don't like to get the ones I like, but right now the kit will be too expensive to justify buying it (for me at least).

What about splitting up the Nerdom kit into "classic" (grey/black) and "extravaganza" (colored)

[tbc]

what about this?

Show Image

Personally I think the there should be Winkeys with Tux, FreeBSD logo and Xorg logo, to make them more relevant for people that do not use Windows.

then why not put windows keys there as well?

[justnits]

what about this?

Show Image

Personally I think the there should be Winkeys with Tux, FreeBSD logo and Xorg logo, to make them more relevant for people that do not use Windows.

then why not put windows keys there as well?

windows should be in the mod kit and/or pro kit. 2 x 1.25u and 2 x 1u  :p
and probably i'll get bashed for this, Win8 logo pls  ;D ;D

[Zeal]

what about this?

Show Image

Personally I think the there should be Winkeys with Tux, FreeBSD logo and Xorg logo, to make them more relevant for people that do not use Windows.

then why not put windows keys there as well?

windows should be in the mod kit and/or pro kit. 2 x 1.25u and 2 x 1u  :p
and probably i'll get bashed for this, Win8 logo pls  ;D ;D

+1 for Win8 Logo. ;D It's just so minimalistic!

[Matt3o]

you have "windows keys" aplenty in the mod kits (the diamond key). Also you can use batman/superman or rebels/empire keys from the nerdom (and I'll be adding back the Amiga A couple). I see no point at adding windows branding when you have so many cool alternatives.

I'll however review the kit, I understand that there are not many my-generation-nerds around and I don't want to force people playing "throw the keycap to the cat" with a bunch of unused keys.

regarding blank spacebar. Having 1 blank key in a legended one doesn't make the kit cheaper. So I'm not really sure if I want waste one blank when you have the half ergodox kit. BUT again, the kit is yours. I'll do whatever you ergodoxers ask me to do with it.

[tbc]

matteo,

i was under the impression the space key should get REPLACED by another legend and people will get a blank space from the blankergo set.  that's the way i would prefer it.

[justnits]

you have "windows keys" aplenty in the mod kits (the diamond key). Also you can use batman/superman or rebels/empire keys from the nerdom (and I'll be adding back the Amiga A couple). I see no point at adding windows branding when you have so many cool alternatives.

I'll however review the kit, I understand that there are not many my-generation-nerds around and I don't want to force people playing "throw the keycap to the cat" with a bunch of unused keys.

regarding blank spacebar. Having 1 blank key in a legended one doesn't make the kit cheaper. So I'm not really sure if I want waste one blank when you have the half ergodox kit. BUT again, the kit is yours. I'll do whatever you ergodoxers ask me to do with it.

i mentioned in my earlier post that i'm ok with the ergodox kit as it is right now
legend space or not, don't think it'll bother me much.
but i can say that as with the kit right now, it's almost perfect for me no need for me to get half blanks.

to me, i would prefer a real windows logo rather than diamond.
but it's not a must or need. i won't die from not having a windows logo key. 

[justnits]

matteo,

i was under the impression the space key should get REPLACED by another legend and people will get a blank space from the blankergo set.  that's the way i would prefer it.

on the other hand, i was under the impression that we want to cover most of the commonly used key in the kit...and spacebar is pretty much used by everyone 
unless u r saying every ergodoxians should get main kit and the half blanks for spacebar... 

[Matt3o]

Revised Nerdom



cats one has been requested by wife, so you can't really say anything about it

[LechnerDE]

Revised Nerdom

cats one has been requested by wife, so you can't really say anything about it

Haha, if you get your robot she's gotta get her cats!

So, no love for the Phantom Mask I suggested?

[justnits]

Revised Nerdom

Show Image

cats one has been requested by wife, so you can't really say anything about it

WHY YOUR WIFE DO DIS!!
 :-\
now i'm half considering getting nerdom kit...my poor wallet...
btw..didn't know cats are under nerds category as well  :p

[Matt3o]

Better picture because they are really cute

btw..didn't know cats are under nerds category as well 

as I said... you can't really argue.

[Matt3o]

So, no love for the Phantom Mask I suggested?

do you have SVG format somewhere?

[squarefrog]

on the other hand, i was under the impression that we want to cover most of the commonly used key in the kit...and spacebar is pretty much used by everyone 
unless u r saying every ergodoxians should get main kit and the half blanks for spacebar... 

if we didn't have the space legend, what would we replace it with? We already cover all the most common doubles, right down to 17% coverage. http://dox.codeslingers.co.uk/

I like the space having a legend. But at this point i'm easy with whatever gets the gb started soonest

[LechnerDE]

So, no love for the Phantom Mask I suggested?

do you have SVG format somewhere?

No sorry, but Ivan used it in his PBT dyesub GB. I am sure he will give it to you, if you ask him for it

[StylinGreymon]

Not that it matters, but I've always wondered why space gets no legend, but tab does.

[justnits]

on the other hand, i was under the impression that we want to cover most of the commonly used key in the kit...and spacebar is pretty much used by everyone 
unless u r saying every ergodoxians should get main kit and the half blanks for spacebar... 

if we didn't have the space legend, what would we replace it with? We already cover all the most common doubles, right down to 17% coverage. http://dox.codeslingers.co.uk/

I like the space having a legend. But at this point i'm easy with whatever gets the gb started soonest

i'd rather have that Space legend there than to have it replaced with other legend.
so i'm happy with the current ergodox set as it is

[Matt3o]

So, no love for the Phantom Mask I suggested?

do you have SVG format somewhere?

No sorry, but Ivan used it in his PBT dyesub GB. I am sure he will give it to you, if you ask him for it

can it be used freely?

[LechnerDE]

So, no love for the Phantom Mask I suggested?

do you have SVG format somewhere?

No sorry, but Ivan used it in his PBT dyesub GB. I am sure he will give it to you, if you ask him for it

can it be used freely?

Honestly I don't know, but since it's a community thing I would think so.

It can't be more illegal than using Batman, Superman and Star Wars icons

[CommonCurt]

what about this?

Show Image

Personally I think the there should be Winkeys with Tux, FreeBSD logo and Xorg logo, to make them more relevant for people that do not use Windows.

then why not put windows keys there as well?

windows should be in the mod kit and/or pro kit. 2 x 1.25u and 2 x 1u  :p
and probably i'll get bashed for this, Win8 logo pls  ;D ;D

If Matt did decide to use Win keys it should be the old school 1990's logo (or at least have the option).   It would go better with this classic looking design.

[Matt3o]

So, no love for the Phantom Mask I suggested?

do you have SVG format somewhere?

No sorry, but Ivan used it in his PBT dyesub GB. I am sure he will give it to you, if you ask him for it

can it be used freely?

Honestly I don't know, but since it's a community thing I would think so.

It can't be more illegal than using Batman, Superman and Star Wars icons

I can sleep at night by using Lucasfilm (now Disney) logos, but I would never use a community's logo without permission.

[justnits]

what about this?

Show Image

Personally I think the there should be Winkeys with Tux, FreeBSD logo and Xorg logo, to make them more relevant for people that do not use Windows.

then why not put windows keys there as well?

windows should be in the mod kit and/or pro kit. 2 x 1.25u and 2 x 1u  :p
and probably i'll get bashed for this, Win8 logo pls  ;D ;D

If Matt did decide to use Win keys it should be the old school 1990's logo (or at least have the option).   It would go better with this classic looking design.

i don't disagree that old winlogo will look better on this set, and by that i meant win95's, the flag with dotted trail behind...haha!
but i'm keeping fingers crossed for win8 logo :P

[LechnerDE]

So, no love for the Phantom Mask I suggested?

do you have SVG format somewhere?

No sorry, but Ivan used it in his PBT dyesub GB. I am sure he will give it to you, if you ask him for it

can it be used freely?

Honestly I don't know, but since it's a community thing I would think so.

It can't be more illegal than using Batman, Superman and Star Wars icons

I can sleep at night by using Lucasfilm (now Disney) logos, but I would never use a community's logo without permission.

Well said! Do we actually know who made the logo so we can ask him for permission?

[Ozric]

what about this?

Show Image

Personally I think the there should be Winkeys with Tux, FreeBSD logo and Xorg logo, to make them more relevant for people that do not use Windows.

then why not put windows keys there as well?

I was not aware that there was not a Mod4/Super whatever you want to call it key without the Windows logo. I was only speaking about the Nerdom kit and how it would be nice to have keys that usually have the Windows logo to have logos for other operating systems. To me that seems more relevant than a Batman logo.