Author Topic: CM Storm Novatouch  (Read 234038 times)

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Offline _PixelNinja

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #550 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 13:52:35 »
It has crap keycaps out of the box. Realforces don't. Neither do $100 Unicomps, Cherry G80s or some cheap Asian gaming keyboards (choc mini, keycools).

According to webwit's sources, Topre has superb quality control for realforces. Not consumer-grade product QC. This may, or may not be the case of the novatouch.

I'm looking for a killer feature other than the stems, but I don't see it. For example, WASD offers custom printing and DSK/Colemak support in firmware—these things separate it from Filco MJ2 or Das 3… that's an obvious difference. Maybe there's no such feature in case of novatouch, and people, who don't care about aftermarket keycaps, ought to skip this one and get a realforce or some costar board. I find it kinda hard to believe though. Disappointment?
The Novatouch's main feature is the Cherry MX compatible Topre switches in a solid keyboard. If you are looking for some other crazy feature, then this keyboard is not for you. 

Offline davkol

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #551 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 14:11:48 »
If that's true, well… good luck to CM Storm selling more than a few thousands, unless the availability and price are on par with MJ2 at least.

Offline _PixelNinja

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #552 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 14:36:40 »
If that's true, well… good luck to CM Storm selling more than a few thousands, unless the availability and price are on par with MJ2 at least.
I agree Cooler Master has somewhat of a challenge on their hands with the Novatouch, but they know that and they know very well this keyboard will not sell like Razer Blackwidows. However, one advantage they should have compared to other Topre offerings is a better visibility and distribution.

Offline davkol

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #553 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 14:52:38 »
Yup. For example, it isn't difficult to compete with £200 realforces from The Keyboard Company.

Offline norbauer

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #554 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 23:55:56 »
Well, I just plopped down nearly $300 to get one via Taobao because I got tired of waiting. As soon as mine arrives I'll be breaking it down and performing major surgery. I'll post pics when I do.

Offline Belfong

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #555 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 02:02:31 »
Sorry to derail the thread but does the Novatouch stem work with existing Topre caps? I mean all my BroBots are Topre. Am I **** out of luck with Novatouch?
 

Offline Kmynis

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #556 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 02:05:04 »
No it won't. You're out of luck, bro
HHKB Type-S
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Offline Belfong

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #557 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 02:07:44 »
Figure as much! Damnit!

I better start condemning the Novatouch! :)
 

Offline rowdy

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #558 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 02:14:15 »
Figure as much! Damnit!

I better start condemning the Novatouch! :)

Just keep an HHKB on standby for the display of artisan keycaps :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Belfong

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #559 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 02:15:58 »
The Novatouch is just a fad. It will pass. Long live HHKB!!
 

Offline Elrick

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #560 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 02:22:01 »
The Novatouch is just a fad. It will pass. Long live HHKB!!

Just another product line that more people will buy and use, far more than the whole HHKB population on Earth which is no greater than the amount of fingers on my left hand, right  ;D ?

Offline Belfong

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #561 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 02:27:18 »
Luckily it's expensive. So people will not buy it. And it will die. Long live HHKB!

/you can tell I'm bitter, hahaha.. You guys can sell me your Topre BB and skulls now.
 

Offline keyton

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #562 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 11:13:49 »
sell me ur Clickclack Skully!

Offline osi

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #563 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 11:23:15 »
The Novatouch is just a fad. It will pass. Long live HHKB!!

Hear, hear!

Offline norbauer

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #564 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:23:40 »
The Novatouch is just a fad. It will pass. Long live HHKB!!

Just another product line that more people will buy and use, far more than the whole HHKB population on Earth which is no greater than the amount of fingers on my left hand, right  ;D ?

lol. Indeed.

Offline Novus

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #565 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 19:45:50 »
The Novatouch is just a fad. It will pass. Long live HHKB!!

Just another product line that more people will buy and use, far more than the whole HHKB population on Earth which is no greater than the amount of fingers on my left hand, right  ;D ?

Razer number 1

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #566 on: Wed, 03 September 2014, 10:15:21 »
For anyone who might be interested, I've posted a brief review of the CM Novatouch over on DT:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/cm-novatouch-review-t8687.html#p181348


Offline jameslr

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #567 on: Wed, 03 September 2014, 15:03:29 »
For anyone who might be interested, I've posted a brief review of the CM Novatouch over on DT:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/cm-novatouch-review-t8687.html#p181348

Thanks for taking the time to crosspost your review and I agree with it pretty much. The stabilizer noise doesn't bother me, I think it just adds something unique to the use of the board versus a Realforce. It's much less pronounced with thick PBT caps though. I'm with you on the DIP switches and the LEDs. I would definitely like the ability to swap left Caps lock and Control keys. It's jarring moving from all of my other keyboards that use this layout.
CM Novatouch | Filco MJ2 TKL w/ HID Lib | REΛLFORCE 87U 55g | CM QFR

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #568 on: Wed, 03 September 2014, 15:51:18 »
For anyone who might be interested, I've posted a brief review of the CM Novatouch over on DT:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/cm-novatouch-review-t8687.html#p181348

Thanks for taking the time to crosspost your review and I agree with it pretty much. The stabilizer noise doesn't bother me, I think it just adds something unique to the use of the board versus a Realforce. It's much less pronounced with thick PBT caps though. I'm with you on the DIP switches and the LEDs. I would definitely like the ability to swap left Caps lock and Control keys. It's jarring moving from all of my other keyboards that use this layout.

Thanks. And thank you for taking the time to take a look at the review.

Regarding remapping, rather than swapping CapsLock and Left Control, I usually omit a dedicated CapsLock altogether and reassign CapsLock as one of the Control keys. Sometimes I set up keyboards so that Fn+Tab = CapsLock. However, with the Novatouch, I cannot seem to get CapsLock reassigned, with either Karibiner/Seil software for the Mac or the Mac Keyboard Preferences settings. This is the first keyboard that has given me this problem; even vintage IBM XT keyboards have worked with my remapping software (or I have installed a Teensy and used Soarer's Converter, which also works beautifully).

The remapping works nicely with the LEDs on the RF 87u. For example, when the remapping has both the former CapsLock as Control and Left Control as another Control, the CapsLock LED does not light up when either key is depressed, as would be expected. However, if I assign Fn+Tab as CapsLock, then the LED lights up on the lower left Control key. Likewise, I have Fn+Esc = NumLock, and pressing Fn+Esc causes the NumLock key to light up. I don't care to have a backlit keyboard, but I find having LEDs for CapsLock and NumLock useful.

Remapping software can be sufficient if you are using the keyboard with only one computer, but I often need to switch over from my Mac to a linux box or a Windows machine. In these cases, it is best to have remappings intrinsic to the keyboard. Whereas I have a dozen or so remapped keys, it would be impractical to have DIP switches for all these personalized settings, but it would be great to have DIP switches for some of the more widely used settings, such as swapping CapsLock/Control, Alt/Win, and Backslash/Backspace.

Offline colomb

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #569 on: Wed, 03 September 2014, 19:56:41 »
For anyone who might be interested, I've posted a brief review of the CM Novatouch over on DT:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/cm-novatouch-review-t8687.html#p181348

Thanks for taking the time to crosspost your review and I agree with it pretty much. The stabilizer noise doesn't bother me, I think it just adds something unique to the use of the board versus a Realforce. It's much less pronounced with thick PBT caps though. I'm with you on the DIP switches and the LEDs. I would definitely like the ability to swap left Caps lock and Control keys. It's jarring moving from all of my other keyboards that use this layout.

Thanks. And thank you for taking the time to take a look at the review.

Regarding remapping, rather than swapping CapsLock and Left Control, I usually omit a dedicated CapsLock altogether and reassign CapsLock as one of the Control keys. Sometimes I set up keyboards so that Fn+Tab = CapsLock. However, with the Novatouch, I cannot seem to get CapsLock reassigned, with either Karibiner/Seil software for the Mac or the Mac Keyboard Preferences settings. This is the first keyboard that has given me this problem; even vintage IBM XT keyboards have worked with my remapping software (or I have installed a Teensy and used Soarer's Converter, which also works beautifully).

The remapping works nicely with the LEDs on the RF 87u. For example, when the remapping has both the former CapsLock as Control and Left Control as another Control, the CapsLock LED does not light up when either key is depressed, as would be expected. However, if I assign Fn+Tab as CapsLock, then the LED lights up on the lower left Control key. Likewise, I have Fn+Esc = NumLock, and pressing Fn+Esc causes the NumLock key to light up. I don't care to have a backlit keyboard, but I find having LEDs for CapsLock and NumLock useful.

Remapping software can be sufficient if you are using the keyboard with only one computer, but I often need to switch over from my Mac to a linux box or a Windows machine. In these cases, it is best to have remappings intrinsic to the keyboard. Whereas I have a dozen or so remapped keys, it would be impractical to have DIP switches for all these personalized settings, but it would be great to have DIP switches for some of the more widely used settings, such as swapping CapsLock/Control, Alt/Win, and Backslash/Backspace.

A little disappointing to hear that the board has issues with karabiner. My plan is to use it on my work machine (windows), but I was hoping to use it at home (OS X) sometimes as well. I wonder if it will have similar issues with key tweak in windows as thats what I currently use to remap caps lock/control and backslash/backspace. I'm told adding teensy's to QFR is fairly straight forward. I wonder how hard it will be with the novatouch.

Offline jameslr

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #570 on: Wed, 03 September 2014, 20:38:06 »
A little disappointing to hear that the board has issues with karabiner. My plan is to use it on my work machine (windows), but I was hoping to use it at home (OS X) sometimes as well. I wonder if it will have similar issues with key tweak in windows as thats what I currently use to remap caps lock/control and backslash/backspace. I'm told adding teensy's to QFR is fairly straight forward. I wonder how hard it will be with the novatouch.

Odd, I was just able to swap Caps lock and control using Seil (http://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/seil.html). You cannot do it with Karabiner itself because apparently it's a "special" key. I also had to change Caps Lock in the keyboard system preference to "No Action". I didn't try with the key tweak application, but I can give it a go to see how it works.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Edit: I was able to swap Capslock and Control easily with AutoHotKey. I don't know what this Key Tweak is, but it looked too spyware'ish to me so I didn't bother.
« Last Edit: Wed, 03 September 2014, 20:48:14 by jameslr »
CM Novatouch | Filco MJ2 TKL w/ HID Lib | REΛLFORCE 87U 55g | CM QFR

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #571 on: Thu, 04 September 2014, 08:33:17 »
A little disappointing to hear that the board has issues with karabiner. My plan is to use it on my work machine (windows), but I was hoping to use it at home (OS X) sometimes as well. I wonder if it will have similar issues with key tweak in windows as thats what I currently use to remap caps lock/control and backslash/backspace. I'm told adding teensy's to QFR is fairly straight forward. I wonder how hard it will be with the novatouch.

Odd, I was just able to swap Caps lock and control using Seil (http://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/seil.html). You cannot do it with Karabiner itself because apparently it's a "special" key. I also had to change Caps Lock in the keyboard system preference to "No Action". I didn't try with the key tweak application, but I can give it a go to see how it works.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Edit: I was able to swap Capslock and Control easily with AutoHotKey. I don't know what this Key Tweak is, but it looked too spyware'ish to me so I didn't bother.

Yes, I have also tried Seil, setting the Mac keyboard prefs to "No action" for the CapsLock key. Still no joy. I will try connecting the keyboard directly to the computer; as it stands, it is connected via a USB hub. This doesn't bother my other keyboards, but perhaps the Novatouch wants a direct connection. I am at work now and the NT is at home. I will give this a try later.

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #572 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 14:56:19 »
A little disappointing to hear that the board has issues with karabiner. My plan is to use it on my work machine (windows), but I was hoping to use it at home (OS X) sometimes as well. I wonder if it will have similar issues with key tweak in windows as thats what I currently use to remap caps lock/control and backslash/backspace. I'm told adding teensy's to QFR is fairly straight forward. I wonder how hard it will be with the novatouch.

Odd, I was just able to swap Caps lock and control using Seil (http://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/seil.html). You cannot do it with Karabiner itself because apparently it's a "special" key. I also had to change Caps Lock in the keyboard system preference to "No Action". I didn't try with the key tweak application, but I can give it a go to see how it works.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Edit: I was able to swap Capslock and Control easily with AutoHotKey. I don't know what this Key Tweak is, but it looked too spyware'ish to me so I didn't bother.
Apologies for double-posting, but I have made some progress with remapping and I wanted to update my findings.

First, I was able to use Karabiner in combination with Mac keyboard prefs to remap most things to my liking. This includes reassigning CapsLock to Control and reassigning Left Control to Fn. Although I rarely need CapsLock, I now have Fn+Tab = CapsLock. Among other remappings, I now have swapped Backslash and Backspace and Alt and Win; Win is now Command and Alt is Option. And by the way, all this works without connecting the keyboard directly to my Mac Pro -- I use an Iogear KM switch along with Synergy. Moreover, the KM switch is connected to a USB hub.

I notice that the Novatouch shows up in the Mac keyboard prefs as just "Keyboard", whereas my other keyboards are recognized by name, such as "Realforce 87" and "HHKB Professional". CM might want to update its ID function to personalize the board, giving it a name like "Novatouch".

Unfortunately, the Novatouch has a hardwired Fn key that does not issue a scan code, and so it cannot be remapped and it cannot be used in new combinations of Fn+XXX to yield some new function. Consequently, the Fn key on my Novatouch is a dead key. I really wanted to remap it as Right Control, but I can live without this, given that I now have two Control keys on the left side of the keyboard.

Luckily my RF 87u does not start out with a Fn key, and so the Menu key is now Right Control and Right Control is Fn. Because a user-created Fn key issues a scan code, I can remap it or use it in new functional combinations to my heart's content. Moreover, there are no dead keys on my RF 87u.

Despite the Fn key issue and the fact that the CM Novatouch does not really sound or feel like a Topre keyboard to me, it is growing on me. I certainly like it better than any Cherry mx keyboard I have tried, and so I finally have a board that I can use with my various Cherry mx keycap sets. At present, I have populated the keys using two sets of dye-sub thick PBT keycaps that I got from geek_feng some time ago. The alphas are blue with black legends and the mods are gray/beige with black legends. It looks and feels rather good. This adds up to making my Novatouch an expensive board ($200 for the board and over $200 for the caps), but I suppose we enthusiasts expect to deplete our wallets in our quest for keyboard nirvana.

Offline deci

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #573 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 15:15:01 »
the CM Novatouch does not really sound or feel like a Topre keyboard to me

Curious if any one else feels this way as well as I haven't heard it in any of the other reviews I've read.
Definitely interested in this board but not feeling or sounding like a true Topre is a deal breaker...

Offline jameslr

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #574 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 15:54:48 »
the CM Novatouch does not really sound or feel like a Topre keyboard to me

Curious if any one else feels this way as well as I haven't heard it in any of the other reviews I've read.
Definitely interested in this board but not feeling or sounding like a true Topre is a deal breaker...

I think it feels like Topre, but coming from a RF87U 55g it's definitely lighter. I really like it, and it's currently my daily driver. As far as spending so much on caps - I don't think imsto are the best PBT caps available. I would much rather have the cherry profile leopold caps. They're much cheaper if you can stand having lasered legends. Dyesubs are nice and all, but side print lasered is fine with me and they're super smooth.
CM Novatouch | Filco MJ2 TKL w/ HID Lib | REΛLFORCE 87U 55g | CM QFR

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #575 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 16:03:35 »
the CM Novatouch does not really sound or feel like a Topre keyboard to me

Curious if any one else feels this way as well as I haven't heard it in any of the other reviews I've read.
Definitely interested in this board but not feeling or sounding like a true Topre is a deal breaker...

You might check out some of the posts on the Novatouch from "Muirium" over on Deskthority. He did some audio recordings of the Novatouch along with some other Topre-switch boards, and he remarked that to his ear, the Novatouch did not have have the "thock" sound that people have associated with Topre-switch boards.

For example, when I asked him about this, and about the effect of O-rings on the Novatouch, here was his reply:

"I've tried o-rings and none. I find the thock is never really there in any case. You get a hint of it, there's something there unlike any MX switch, but the stabilised keys in particular have more of a plastic slap to them than the Topre sound you want. Here's some recordings, which all should be quite familiar to your ears now you have every keyboard in question!"

And he provided the following link to a post with his recordings:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/topre-switch-cherry-mx-compatible-t7076-750.html#p174519

I have found that the "Topre thock" and "Topre feel" were especially apparent with the HHKB Pro 2 and Leopold FC660C. These properties are also there with the RF 87u 55g, but in a tighter and more refined way. The Novatouch is different still. I am not sure how to describe it. It is not necessarily a bad sound or feel; it is just not the same as what I have experienced with other Topre switch boards. It actually feels a bit like my white PBT KC84 with Cherry mx blues, but smoother and without the rice-crispies clicks. The clicks on the Novatouch are from bottoming out and from the return stroke.

Offline jameslr

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #576 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 16:22:36 »
the CM Novatouch does not really sound or feel like a Topre keyboard to me

Curious if any one else feels this way as well as I haven't heard it in any of the other reviews I've read.
Definitely interested in this board but not feeling or sounding like a true Topre is a deal breaker...

You might check out some of the posts on the Novatouch from "Muirium" over on Deskthority. He did some audio recordings of the Novatouch along with some other Topre-switch boards, and he remarked that to his ear, the Novatouch did not have have the "thock" sound that people have associated with Topre-switch boards.

For example, when I asked him about this, and about the effect of O-rings on the Novatouch, here was his reply:

"I've tried o-rings and none. I find the thock is never really there in any case. You get a hint of it, there's something there unlike any MX switch, but the stabilised keys in particular have more of a plastic slap to them than the Topre sound you want. Here's some recordings, which all should be quite familiar to your ears now you have every keyboard in question!"

And he provided the following link to a post with his recordings:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/topre-switch-cherry-mx-compatible-t7076-750.html#p174519

I have found that the "Topre thock" and "Topre feel" were especially apparent with the HHKB Pro 2 and Leopold FC660C. These properties are also there with the RF 87u 55g, but in a tighter and more refined way. The Novatouch is different still. I am not sure how to describe it. It is not necessarily a bad sound or feel; it is just not the same as what I have experienced with other Topre switch boards. It actually feels a bit like my white PBT KC84 with Cherry mx blues, but smoother and without the rice-crispies clicks. The clicks on the Novatouch are from bottoming out and from the return stroke.
I guess to my ear its there. Having typed on all of those boards before it is definitely the topper feel at least to me. Feels nothing like mx blue to me though. The actuation point and tactility is half way through the stroke on mx blue. Sound wise it can't even be compared to blue. I posted some sound clips of all of these boards a while back. It is unique but not completely different than other Topre.
CM Novatouch | Filco MJ2 TKL w/ HID Lib | REΛLFORCE 87U 55g | CM QFR

Offline deci

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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #577 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 16:44:29 »
the CM Novatouch does not really sound or feel like a Topre keyboard to me

Curious if any one else feels this way as well as I haven't heard it in any of the other reviews I've read.
Definitely interested in this board but not feeling or sounding like a true Topre is a deal breaker...

You might check out some of the posts on the Novatouch from "Muirium" over on Deskthority. He did some audio recordings of the Novatouch along with some other Topre-switch boards, and he remarked that to his ear, the Novatouch did not have have the "thock" sound that people have associated with Topre-switch boards.

For example, when I asked him about this, and about the effect of O-rings on the Novatouch, here was his reply:

"I've tried o-rings and none. I find the thock is never really there in any case. You get a hint of it, there's something there unlike any MX switch, but the stabilised keys in particular have more of a plastic slap to them than the Topre sound you want. Here's some recordings, which all should be quite familiar to your ears now you have every keyboard in question!"

And he provided the following link to a post with his recordings:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/topre-switch-cherry-mx-compatible-t7076-750.html#p174519

I have found that the "Topre thock" and "Topre feel" were especially apparent with the HHKB Pro 2 and Leopold FC660C. These properties are also there with the RF 87u 55g, but in a tighter and more refined way. The Novatouch is different still. I am not sure how to describe it. It is not necessarily a bad sound or feel; it is just not the same as what I have experienced with other Topre switch boards. It actually feels a bit like my white PBT KC84 with Cherry mx blues, but smoother and without the rice-crispies clicks. The clicks on the Novatouch are from bottoming out and from the return stroke.

Oh thanks for the links to the recordings.
I had read previously that the novatouch had less thock but that was with the prototype models and based on feed back they were going to try to improve this aspect so retail version sound different than those recordings.

Honestly though even in his recordings I can still hear a decent thock, just that it's kind of drowned out by the really loud clack from the spacebar.
I think as usual the keycaps and o-rings are going to make a big difference here.

The sound to me seems ok. It's not HHKB dental mod but it's not bad.

I see opinions are still mixed on the feel. I guess only way to be sure is to buy one and try for myself  ;D

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #578 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 17:00:49 »
@jamesir: I quite agree that the sound and feel of any Topre-switch board, including the Novatouch, is not like that of a Cherry mx blue board. However, it happens that my KC84 has a bottoming-out sound that reminds me of the bottoming-out sound of my Novatouch.

Another reason for inviting comparisons between the Novatouch and Cherry mx boards is the fact that the Novatouch accommodates Cherry mx keycaps. I have not particularly liked any of my Cherry mx keyboards, but of all the boards that I could use with my Cherry keycaps, I prefer the Novatouch. On the other hand, of all my Topre-switch boards, I prefer typing on my HHKB Pro 2 or RF 87u over typing on my Novatouch. Naturally, others will have different preferences.

Regarding the O-ring question: Have you tried the Novatouch with and without O-rings installed? If so, which way do you prefer, both with respect to sound and feel of the board? I am still undecided.

Offline feizor

  • Posts: 690
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #579 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 17:10:49 »
the CM Novatouch does not really sound or feel like a Topre keyboard to me

Curious if any one else feels this way as well as I haven't heard it in any of the other reviews I've read.
Definitely interested in this board but not feeling or sounding like a true Topre is a deal breaker...

You might check out some of the posts on the Novatouch from "Muirium" over on Deskthority. He did some audio recordings of the Novatouch along with some other Topre-switch boards, and he remarked that to his ear, the Novatouch did not have have the "thock" sound that people have associated with Topre-switch boards.

For example, when I asked him about this, and about the effect of O-rings on the Novatouch, here was his reply:

"I've tried o-rings and none. I find the thock is never really there in any case. You get a hint of it, there's something there unlike any MX switch, but the stabilised keys in particular have more of a plastic slap to them than the Topre sound you want. Here's some recordings, which all should be quite familiar to your ears now you have every keyboard in question!"

And he provided the following link to a post with his recordings:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/topre-switch-cherry-mx-compatible-t7076-750.html#p174519

I have found that the "Topre thock" and "Topre feel" were especially apparent with the HHKB Pro 2 and Leopold FC660C. These properties are also there with the RF 87u 55g, but in a tighter and more refined way. The Novatouch is different still. I am not sure how to describe it. It is not necessarily a bad sound or feel; it is just not the same as what I have experienced with other Topre switch boards. It actually feels a bit like my white PBT KC84 with Cherry mx blues, but smoother and without the rice-crispies clicks. The clicks on the Novatouch are from bottoming out and from the return stroke.

Oh thanks for the links to the recordings.
I had read previously that the novatouch had less thock but that was with the prototype models and based on feed back they were going to try to improve this aspect so retail version sound different than those recordings.

Honestly though even in his recordings I can still hear a decent thock, just that it's kind of drowned out by the really loud clack from the spacebar.
I think as usual the keycaps and o-rings are going to make a big difference here.

The sound to me seems ok. It's not HHKB dental mod but it's not bad.

I see opinions are still mixed on the feel. I guess only way to be sure is to buy one and try for myself  ;D

I suspect the thock sound of the realforce and hhkb are attributable to the PBT keycaps rather than the structure of the board itself. Since abs keycaps produce a higher pitched sound when bottoming out compared to pbt, the novatouch will sound different.

If you put a set of thick pbt keycaps on the novatouch, it will sound much more like other tore boards.

Offline deci

  • Posts: 206
  • Location: san diego
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #580 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 18:28:01 »
I suspect the thock sound of the realforce and hhkb are attributable to the PBT keycaps rather than the structure of the board itself. Since abs keycaps produce a higher pitched sound when bottoming out compared to pbt, the novatouch will sound different.

If you put a set of thick pbt keycaps on the novatouch, it will sound much more like other tore boards.

Yeah I agree but don't underestimate how much of difference the case and mounting plate can affect the sound as well.
I think a large part of what makes the HHKB sound and feel the way it does is due to the fact that it's not mounted to a metal plate.

edit: wrote opposite of what i meant  :-[
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 September 2014, 18:40:53 by deci »

Offline Sempre

  • Posts: 187
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #581 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 18:35:44 »
What! Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought that the Realforce boards are the ones which are metal plated in contrary to the HKKB which is PCB mounted.
That's why i read that the Realforce boards feel heavier than HKKBs.

Offline deci

  • Posts: 206
  • Location: san diego
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #582 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 18:38:08 »
What! Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought that the Realforce boards are the ones which are metal plated in contrary to the HKKB which is PCB mounted.
That's why i read that the Realforce boards feel heavier than HKKBs.

Oops no, you're right, that's a typo.

Offline Sempre

  • Posts: 187
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #583 on: Fri, 05 September 2014, 18:50:11 »
Oops no, you're right, that's a typo.
[/quote]

No problem. It happens  ;D

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #584 on: Sat, 06 September 2014, 09:10:02 »
the CM Novatouch does not really sound or feel like a Topre keyboard to me

Curious if any one else feels this way as well as I haven't heard it in any of the other reviews I've read.
Definitely interested in this board but not feeling or sounding like a true Topre is a deal breaker...

You might check out some of the posts on the Novatouch from "Muirium" over on Deskthority. He did some audio recordings of the Novatouch along with some other Topre-switch boards, and he remarked that to his ear, the Novatouch did not have have the "thock" sound that people have associated with Topre-switch boards.

For example, when I asked him about this, and about the effect of O-rings on the Novatouch, here was his reply:

"I've tried o-rings and none. I find the thock is never really there in any case. You get a hint of it, there's something there unlike any MX switch, but the stabilised keys in particular have more of a plastic slap to them than the Topre sound you want. Here's some recordings, which all should be quite familiar to your ears now you have every keyboard in question!"

And he provided the following link to a post with his recordings:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/topre-switch-cherry-mx-compatible-t7076-750.html#p174519

I have found that the "Topre thock" and "Topre feel" were especially apparent with the HHKB Pro 2 and Leopold FC660C. These properties are also there with the RF 87u 55g, but in a tighter and more refined way. The Novatouch is different still. I am not sure how to describe it. It is not necessarily a bad sound or feel; it is just not the same as what I have experienced with other Topre switch boards. It actually feels a bit like my white PBT KC84 with Cherry mx blues, but smoother and without the rice-crispies clicks. The clicks on the Novatouch are from bottoming out and from the return stroke.

Oh thanks for the links to the recordings.
I had read previously that the novatouch had less thock but that was with the prototype models and based on feed back they were going to try to improve this aspect so retail version sound different than those recordings.

Honestly though even in his recordings I can still hear a decent thock, just that it's kind of drowned out by the really loud clack from the spacebar.
I think as usual the keycaps and o-rings are going to make a big difference here.

The sound to me seems ok. It's not HHKB dental mod but it's not bad.

I see opinions are still mixed on the feel. I guess only way to be sure is to buy one and try for myself  ;D

I suspect the thock sound of the realforce and hhkb are attributable to the PBT keycaps rather than the structure of the board itself. Since abs keycaps produce a higher pitched sound when bottoming out compared to pbt, the novatouch will sound different.

If you put a set of thick pbt keycaps on the novatouch, it will sound much more like other tore boards.

I tested my Novatouch with the stock ABS caps and with thick PBT dye-sub keycaps. The thick keycaps certainly feel better and the sound is somewhat improved, but there is still a bottoming-out click from the keycaps, and to me the keyboard does not sound like my other Topre-switch boards, which include a Leopold FC660C, HHKB Pro 2, and RF 87u 55g.

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6288
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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #585 on: Sat, 06 September 2014, 10:52:56 »
Unfortunately, the Novatouch has a hardwired Fn key that does not issue a scan code, and so it cannot be remapped and it cannot be used in new combinations of Fn+XXX to yield some new function. Consequently, the Fn key on my Novatouch is a dead key. I really wanted to remap it as Right Control, but I can live without this, given that I now have two Control keys on the left side of the keyboard.

Luckily my RF 87u does not start out with a Fn key, and so the Menu key is now Right Control and Right Control is Fn. Because a user-created Fn key issues a scan code, I can remap it or use it in new functional combinations to my heart's content. Moreover, there are no dead keys on my RF 87u.
Other topre have this issue as well. My 10th anniversary 104 pro has a "pro key" on the right that is a completely dead key.

Trying the sample I did at keycon, It felt like a topre board to me, but keep in mind I am used to 30g uniform, so mine sounds a little different than most people's 45g or 55g topre.

I suspect the different sound is also due to different material and especially shape of the slider.

But who is bottoming out their topre anyway? Half the reason to get one is the actuation point is before bottomout.
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 September 2014, 10:54:34 by dorkvader »

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #586 on: Sat, 06 September 2014, 11:13:53 »
Unfortunately, the Novatouch has a hardwired Fn key that does not issue a scan code, and so it cannot be remapped and it cannot be used in new combinations of Fn+XXX to yield some new function. Consequently, the Fn key on my Novatouch is a dead key. I really wanted to remap it as Right Control, but I can live without this, given that I now have two Control keys on the left side of the keyboard.

Luckily my RF 87u does not start out with a Fn key, and so the Menu key is now Right Control and Right Control is Fn. Because a user-created Fn key issues a scan code, I can remap it or use it in new functional combinations to my heart's content. Moreover, there are no dead keys on my RF 87u.
Other topre have this issue as well. My 10th anniversary 104 pro has a "pro key" on the right that is a completely dead key.

Trying the sample I did at keycon, It felt like a topre board to me, but keep in mind I am used to 30g uniform, so mine sounds a little different than most people's 45g or 55g topre.

I suspect the different sound is also due to different material and especially shape of the slider.

But who is bottoming out their topre anyway? Half the reason to get one is the actuation point is before bottomout.
I grew up using an IBM Model M 101, then moved to an IBM SSK, and more recently to an IBM XT. I bottom out on every keyboard I use. I never could stop half-way! ;)

My current favorites are my IBM XT, RF 87u 55g, and HHKB Pro 2. Very different boards, but each one excellent in its own way.


Offline Prime Time

  • Posts: 5
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #587 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 02:31:12 »
Just got mine yesterday. And here are my first impression and mini-review about this keyboard.

And for those who wonder, mine are retail version.


Here are the picture of my CM Storm Novatouch.









As you can see in pictures above this keyboard is TKL form factor and it is very well build. Look and feel solid than my Ducky Premier (DK9008P). It also came with o-ring and keycaps puller tool. The box itself is magnetic lock.

And as CM state this keyboard have a Topre switches that backward compatible with Cherry MX keycaps as show in the pictures Ducky premier Thick PBT keycaps fit well in this Topre keyboard.


And for typing experience for those of you who never use Topre switches based keyboards before, Topre switches based keyboards are feel different I can't say if it better or worse than my Cherry MX keyboards it is just different and the feeling of these switches are really unique and here are what I like and doesn't like in Topre switches.

I do like,

The feeling of bottom out on Topre switch.

How fast it response.

I type better on Topre.



And I do not like,

That it's really hard to find the actuation point, Personally I don't bottom out when I'm using every Cherry MX based keyboards I've own. But for Topre based keyboard like this one I just bottom out almost every single time I press my fingers on it.

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #588 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 04:52:12 »
What! Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought that the Realforce boards are the ones which are metal plated in contrary to the HKKB which is PCB mounted.
That's why i read that the Realforce boards feel heavier than HKKBs.

Technically the HHKB is case-mounted.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #589 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 10:26:51 »
<snip>

The stems on the GMK Dolch seem to be a bit loose, but they were on the other MX board that I had them on as well so I don't think that's indicative of a problem with the Novatouch sliders. I have to say the stabilized keys feel great. A bit like Cherry stabilizers, but not quite as mushy.

<snip>

In a separate post, I pointed out that the Imsto keycaps on my Novatouch fit rather loosely. Although Imsto caps are known to be looser than some other Cherry mx keycaps, they are looser on my Novatouch than they are on regular Cherry mx keyboards. In fact, the cap on the "O" key in particular pops off regularly, and it will fall off when the board is inverted. To test if this was due to the keycap or the stem on the Novatouch, I reversed the "I" and "O" keycaps. Now it is the "I" keycap that pops off when I am typing and falls off when the keyboard is inverted. Therefore, the problem seems to be with the switch stem on the Novatouch rather than a problem with the third-party keycap.

Offline MJ45

  • HHKB Pro
  • Posts: 530
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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #590 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 13:30:52 »
What! Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought that the Realforce boards are the ones which are metal plated in contrary to the HKKB which is PCB mounted.
That's why i read that the Realforce boards feel heavier than HKKBs.

Technically the HHKB is case-mounted.

The HHKB's case-mounted switches coupled with hollow case creates that unique thock. Like how a musical instruments body cavity shape-volume effects the sound. Sort of how I can always tell the difference between a hollow body guitar (Gibson Les Paul) vs solid body (Fender strat, etc.) plugged or unplugged blindfolded.   

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6288
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #591 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 13:40:14 »
Unfortunately, the Novatouch has a hardwired Fn key that does not issue a scan code, and so it cannot be remapped and it cannot be used in new combinations of Fn+XXX to yield some new function. Consequently, the Fn key on my Novatouch is a dead key. I really wanted to remap it as Right Control, but I can live without this, given that I now have two Control keys on the left side of the keyboard.

Luckily my RF 87u does not start out with a Fn key, and so the Menu key is now Right Control and Right Control is Fn. Because a user-created Fn key issues a scan code, I can remap it or use it in new functional combinations to my heart's content. Moreover, there are no dead keys on my RF 87u.
Other topre have this issue as well. My 10th anniversary 104 pro has a "pro key" on the right that is a completely dead key.

Trying the sample I did at keycon, It felt like a topre board to me, but keep in mind I am used to 30g uniform, so mine sounds a little different than most people's 45g or 55g topre.

I suspect the different sound is also due to different material and especially shape of the slider.

But who is bottoming out their topre anyway? Half the reason to get one is the actuation point is before bottomout.
I grew up using an IBM Model M 101, then moved to an IBM SSK, and more recently to an IBM XT. I bottom out on every keyboard I use. I never could stop half-way! ;)


I grew up using an IBM 1392401 from 1990, and I never had any trouble.

Now that the retail versions are out, did we decide if it has lock lights or not?

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #592 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 13:43:22 »
I second the fact that @rowdy pointed out that HHKB Topre switches are case-mounted, and @mj45's observation about the hollow-body musical instrument analogy is right on.

Offline Sempre

  • Posts: 187
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #593 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 13:46:50 »
Technically the HHKB is case-mounted.
Thanks. TIL

The HHKB's case-mounted switches coupled with hollow case creates that unique thock. Like how a musical instruments body cavity shape-volume effects the sound. Sort of how I can always tell the difference between a hollow body guitar (Gibson Les Paul) vs solid body (Fender strat, etc.) plugged or unplugged blindfolded.

Wow. They should put this on it's product description.

Offline jameslr

  • Posts: 516
  • Location: Indiana
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #594 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 17:34:05 »
What! Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought that the Realforce boards are the ones which are metal plated in contrary to the HKKB which is PCB mounted.
That's why i read that the Realforce boards feel heavier than HKKBs.

Technically the HHKB is case-mounted.

The HHKB's case-mounted switches coupled with hollow case creates that unique thock. Like how a musical instruments body cavity shape-volume effects the sound. Sort of how I can always tell the difference between a hollow body guitar (Gibson Les Paul) vs solid body (Fender strat, etc.) plugged or unplugged blindfolded.
Les Paul is a solid body guitar, just FYI.
CM Novatouch | Filco MJ2 TKL w/ HID Lib | REΛLFORCE 87U 55g | CM QFR

Offline ynrozturk

  • Posts: 719
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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #595 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 17:40:30 »
Chambered, but still solid body, yes.
IBM Model F | IMB Model M | Poker II MX Brown | Poker II MX Clear | Filco TKL MX Brown | Bastardized Razer Blackwidow TE MX Blue | Logitech G602 |  Cyborg R.A.T. 7 | | Logitech MX518 | Icemat  | Artisan Hien

Offline MJ45

  • HHKB Pro
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Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #596 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 19:21:02 »
Chambered, but still solid body, yes.
I guess my definition of solid is different than yours, if its chambered how is it solid?

Offline jameslr

  • Posts: 516
  • Location: Indiana
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #597 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 19:57:42 »
Chambered, but still solid body, yes.
I guess my definition of solid is different than yours, if its chambered how is it solid?

Thread derail I know, but I think most guitarists would disagree with your claim of the Les Paul being a hollow-body guitar (the chambers in LP are for weight reduction primarily, not resonance).

Back on topic - your analogy, albeit slightly flawed (IMHO), is still technically sound. The HHKB Pro 2 has a deeper and more pronounced "thock" sound due to its hollow case-mounted construction versus the more solid plate mounted construction of the Realforce boards.
CM Novatouch | Filco MJ2 TKL w/ HID Lib | REΛLFORCE 87U 55g | CM QFR

Offline Polymer

  • Posts: 1587
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #598 on: Sun, 07 September 2014, 22:18:17 »
But who is bottoming out their topre anyway? Half the reason to get one is the actuation point is before bottomout.

Except for people using 30g Topre (which doesn't have a large enough bump), everyone...

Anyone saying they don't bottom out with their 45/55g Topre is lying or they're typing stupidly slow in a really poor way...You can lightly bottom out..but you will..that is just the nature of how it works..

The actuation before bottom out makes it feel a bit more responsive and it doesn't feel as if you have to smash the key..but everyone bottoms out on 45/55g Topre...

Sounds like to me there is still some sound coming from where the keycap mounts into the slider..it seems a bit annoying...Would like to see/hear some recordings of thick PBT on it..with and without o-rings...

Offline sujambanvfx

  • Posts: 6
  • Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Raya
Re: CM Storm Novatouch
« Reply #599 on: Mon, 08 September 2014, 11:07:37 »
so where led indicator capslock on novatouch ?  :-\