CM Storm Novatouch

[Hypersphere]

I tried hard to like this keyboard but (at that price) it simply doesn't stand a chance to any other Topre (not to mention my custom creations ).
<snip>
The only good thing is that it looks pretty nice with basically any keycap set

Reluctantly, I agree. I really wanted to like the Novatouch, mainly because of its chief selling point -- Topre switches with stems compatible with Cherry mx keycaps. Unfortunately, the Novatouch is just not in the same league as other Topre switch keyboards, such as the Leopold FC660C, HHKB Pro 2, or Realforce 87u (especially the 55g version of the RF). Moreover, it lacks features found on some Cherry mx keyboards, such as a remappable Fn key, LED indicators, and DIP switches.

BTW, I gave away my FC660C because I didn't like the stock keycaps and the layout was not quite what I wanted. I am keeping my HHKB mainly for the 60% form factor and great layout; I also like the Topre switches and excellent dye-sub PBT keycaps. My current favorite is the RF 87ub 55g because of the superb sound and feel of its 55g Topre switches, the overall build quality and appearance, and excellent dye-sub PBT keycaps.

Now I am dithering about what to do with the Novatouch. I have sold all but one of my Cherry mx keyboards, but I have several nice sets of Cherry mx keycaps. I might keep the Novatouch just to be able to use my keycap sets. Despite its shortcomings compared to other Topre-switch and some Cherry mx keyboards, the Novatouch does sound and feel better than any Cherry mx keyboard I have tried.

[radio_killah]

I tried hard to like this keyboard but (at that price) it simply doesn't stand a chance to any other Topre (not to mention my custom creations ).
<snip>
The only good thing is that it looks pretty nice with basically any keycap set

Reluctantly, I agree. I really wanted to like the Novatouch, mainly because of its chief selling point -- Topre switches with stems compatible with Cherry mx keycaps. Unfortunately, the Novatouch is just not in the same league as other Topre switch keyboards, such as the Leopold FC660C, HHKB Pro 2, or Realforce 87u (especially the 55g version of the RF). Moreover, it lacks features found on some Cherry mx keyboards, such as a remappable Fn key, LED indicators, and DIP switches.

BTW, I gave away my FC660C because I didn't like the stock keycaps and the layout was not quite what I wanted. I am keeping my HHKB mainly for the 60% form factor and great layout; I also like the Topre switches and excellent dye-sub PBT keycaps. My current favorite is the RF 87ub 55g because of the superb sound and feel of its 55g Topre switches, the overall build quality and appearance, and excellent dye-sub PBT keycaps.

Now I am dithering about what to do with the Novatouch. I have sold all but one of my Cherry mx keyboards, but I have several nice sets of Cherry mx keycaps. I might keep the Novatouch just to be able to use my keycap sets. Despite its shortcomings compared to other Topre-switch and some Cherry mx keyboards, the Novatouch does sound and feel better than any Cherry mx keyboard I have tried.

From what I have read so far it really seems like the only redeeming quality of the novatouch is its unique stems. The points you mentioned are what a lot of people have been saying (i.e. not the same feeling as the other topres and not having certain features like dip switches).

I doubt it would ever happen but it would be great if CM would sell the topre/mx sliders separately so novatouches don't have to be cannibalized.

[a_ak57]

My dream is that the novatouch does well, gets a 55g version that does well too and then CM not only starts selling the sliders but also domes.  Then I come back to reality.  :/

[deci]

Honestly having used it since release and lubing the stabs / dental band on space bar it has become one of my top 3 keyboards and my daily driver at work (software engineer). I actually use it way more than my hhkb now.
(Home daily driver is GON need tkl with 62g clears for comparison)

I love the feel of my hhkb which is my main travel kb but I type faster on my novatouch and it is imo by far the best topre for gaming. The only thing it lacks is programmability. After modding mine is really quiet with a low tone as well.
Once you find the right key caps for it it is amazing. I'm looking for a used 55g rd to harvest the domes for my nova now.

[dante]

Does the dental band reduce travel as much as the included factory O-ring's?

[deci]

Does the dental band reduce travel as much as the included factory O-ring's?

It depends on the bands you use but yes generally it does. Just compare the thickness.
My 1/8th bands are still thicker than the nt o_rings.

Keep in mind dental bands go under the plate not on top like o rings so the way they affect travel is a little different.
You can use an o rings instead of a dental band for this too as long as it fits tight.
Either way I only did it to the spacebar (which has o ring on top and under plate) to make it really quiet.
The novatouch already feels like it has shorter travel than hhkb so I didn't mess with the other switches other than lubing.

[Veridis]

After using the Leopold Cherry profile thick pbt keycaps for 2 days, I put the stock keycaps on. The stabilized keys are significantly louder and it got to me. The enter key was hitting the stabilizer case as well even with an O-ring. With 2 O-rings, the key would just pop right off. Kind of disappointed after hearing all the raving about cherry profile keycaps and this particular pbt set. Shows how subjective this hobby is!

Quoting myself:

Hmm, the shorter cherry profile takes away some pf the tactile feedback at the top of the stroke. It seems that taller keycaps have more "pop"  at the beginning because any effect of off-center keypresses are magnified and a little more force is required to actuate.

When deliberately pressing Stock OEM keys dead center, the switch feel is identical to these cherry profile pbt.

This may be the reason that some people felt the 45g Topre switch on the Novatouch feel heavier than on other topre keyboards.

Even ignoring the above problem with stabilized keys, low cherry profile keycaps on the Novatouch feel less tactile than the low profile keys on the Realforce 87u. Can't believe I'm saying this, but the stock keycaps are nicer to type on an feel more "piano-ey" to me. Anyone feel the same?

In terms of feels, I would rank Novatouch (OEM Profile)>Realforce 87u 45g>Novatouch (Cherry profile). The Realforce (silenced version) still wins on quietness so it is perfect for the office. For those of you who are using low-profile keycaps, you might want to put on some higher profile keycaps you have lying around, or even give the stock keycaps a spin. Topre switches act differently to key profiles than MX switches.

[jameslr]

Perhaps, but I love the tactile feeling I get from my Novatouch with Cherry profile PBT caps. It's just about perfect. I did try the OEM caps for a short while and they feel ok. I just prefer the texture of these pbt caps. The sound is amazing too. It sounds awesome to me, I don't really care about noise levels as I telecommute full time. Although I was in the office last week and I brought my HHKB in (louder than this Novatouch by a good bit) and nobody complained. A Novatouch with dipswitch settings would be perfect IMO. I don't get the fuss about the stabilized keys. The rattle is about the same as a Realforce. It's still a super solid, super sexy board.

[deci]

It's not just profile but the specific keycap set as well.

I have blank black vortex pbt, blank navy leopold, and vintage dolch cherry.

All 3 of these are cherry or close to cherry profile but they all feel different on the novatouch.
The vortex and leopold are pretty similar but the vortex with orings works better than the leo on certain stabs.
The dolch feels the best to me but it has clacking issues on some stabs.

Basically in addition to the height of the profile, you have to look to inside the keycap and see how far the cross seams (dunno what else to call this) stick out.


I also own some blank pbt ducky sets as well as granite dsa and wyse dsa, but so far the above three cherry profiles feel the best to me. Ducky pbt is much higher though so it has less issues with the stabs, it is however louder going back up for some reason. I hear SA profile is the best for the Novatouch though so looking for a set of those

[Hypersphere]

Whereas I like my RF 87ub 45g and 55g boards with the available Topre dye-sub PBT keycaps, I keep experimenting with various keycaps with and without O-rings on my Novatouch.

Among the best/tightest fitting keycaps on the Novatouch are vintage Dolch harvested from a Dolch PAC 64 keyboard, vintage Cherry doubleshots from Cherry keyboards, SP thin ABS doubleshots, Leopold blank Navy PBTs, and Keycool 84 blank black or white PBTs, but the KC caps sit too high on the Novatouch stems for me.

I like the look and feel of thick PBT keycaps from geek_feng and Imsto, but the fit on the stems is rather loose, and the caps are somewhat noisy when bottoming out. The bottoming out noise is reduced by installing O-rings, but I don't like the feel of O-rings, which also result in keycaps popping loose, especially on the already loose-fitting thick PBTs.

Overall, I like the Leopold PBT caps best on the Novatouch, but the Navy color does not quite look right against the black case, and I wish that Leopold would produce some dye-sub PBT sets.

For now, I have a set of thick dye-sub PBTs on the Novatouch; I sort of like the bottoming out sound that they make.

[Veridis]

Perhaps, but I love the tactile feeling I get from my Novatouch with Cherry profile PBT caps. It's just about perfect. I did try the OEM caps for a short while and they feel ok. I just prefer the texture of these pbt caps. The sound is amazing too. It sounds awesome to me, I don't really care about noise levels as I telecommute full time. Although I was in the office last week and I brought my HHKB in (louder than this Novatouch by a good bit) and nobody complained. A Novatouch with dipswitch settings would be perfect IMO. I don't get the fuss about the stabilized keys. The rattle is about the same as a Realforce. It's still a super solid, super sexy board.

Agree that pbt feels better. I can live with rattle, but with the leopold keycaps it was actually hitting the stabilizer case really hard on the left shift, enter and back space so it is quite surprising that not everyone has this problem. Instead of the soft thunk feeling, you got a hard clack.On my das keyboard (stock caps) , every key clacks so I didn't mind clacking. But on the Novatouch it was too out of place compared to the rest of the keyboard.

Basically in addition to the height of the profile, you have to look to inside the keycap and see how far the cross seams (dunno what else to call this) stick out.


I also own some blank pbt ducky sets as well as granite dsa and wyse dsa, but so far the above three cherry profiles feel the best to me. Ducky pbt is much higher though so it has less issues with the stabs, it is however louder going back up for some reason. I hear SA profile is the best for the Novatouch though so looking for a set of those

You are right, the cross seams are the problem. CM made the stabilizer case have indents to accommodate the cross, so if you added o rings to the corresponding stems on stabilized keycaps it would reduce travel greatly.

Whereas I like my RF 87ub 45g and 55g boards with the available Topre dye-sub PBT keycaps, I keep experimenting with various keycaps with and without O-rings on my Novatouch.

Among the best/tightest fitting keycaps on the Novatouch are vintage Dolch harvested from a Dolch PAC 64 keyboard, vintage Cherry doubleshots from Cherry keyboards, SP thin ABS doubleshots, Leopold blank Navy PBTs, and Keycool 84 blank black or white PBTs, but the KC caps sit too high on the Novatouch stems for me.

I like the look and feel of thick PBT keycaps from geek_feng and Imsto, but the fit on the stems is rather loose, and the caps are somewhat noisy when bottoming out. The bottoming out noise is reduced by installing O-rings, but I don't like the feel of O-rings, which also result in keycaps popping loose, especially on the already loose-fitting thick PBTs.

Overall, I like the Leopold PBT caps best on the Novatouch, but the Navy color does not quite look right against the black case, and I wish that Leopold would produce some dye-sub PBT sets.

For now, I have a set of thick dye-sub PBTs on the Novatouch; I sort of like the bottoming out sound that they make.

Are those thick dye-subs cherry profile? I also feel that slightly textured PBT feels the best, but will do more research before buying my next keycap set.

With lower profiles it seems to be a hit and miss. Wonder if higher/OEM profile is immune to clacking? It would be a disaster if thick PBT OEM clacked too.

Anyone got recommendations for higher profile/oem pbt keycaps?

[Sygaldry]

Anyone got recommendations for higher profile/oem pbt keycaps?

Have you tried Vortex PBT?

[Veridis]

Anyone got recommendations for higher profile/oem pbt keycaps?

Have you tried Vortex PBT?

Is that cherry profile? I like the look of cherry profile but am afraid to buy anymore because of the low clearance.

Okay, searching the net I see that they have a lot of OEM pbt too.

[Sygaldry]

I think most if not all of their sets are OEM profile

[Veridis]

Took the enter key off my Realforce, and it seems like topre keycaps have stems that extend past the keycap, making them taller than the keycap itself would suggest. With the longer stem it looks like a low cherry profile but actually feels like a higher profile.

This probably explains why I liked the feel of the Realforce keycaps.

[deci]

Anyone got recommendations for higher profile/oem pbt keycaps?

Have you tried Vortex PBT?

Is that cherry profile? I like the look of cherry profile but am afraid to buy anymore because of the low clearance.

Okay, searching the net I see that they have a lot of OEM pbt too.

Vortex pbt is cherry but it works fine on the NT if you use o rings. No clacking on mine anyway.
The only thing is that they fit s little loose if that bothers you. Not like so loose they just fall off, but looser than the normal mx fit.
Personally it wasn't an issue for me at all but some people are sensitive to this.

[Hypersphere]

Here are my most recent results with various keycaps on the Novatouch:

1. Thick PBT dye-sub set from geng-feng: Great appearance and PBT feel; loose fit on some of the stems; bottoming-out clack, but I don't mind the sound. O-rings help the clack, but to me, they interfere with the keyboard action and some of the caps are so loose, they can pop off while typing.

2. Thin standard DCS profile double-shot ABS set from SP: Excellent fit on the switch stems; minimal bottoming-out clack so that you can finally get more of a Topre "thock". To me, this set seems to work the best of any I have tried thus far on on the NT. I think that at least one reason for this is the fact that the SP caps don't have the cross-member support struts found on the underside of many Cherry mx keycaps. This may allow the keycap stem to extend more deeply into the switch stem, which is actually more akin to the way Topre keycaps fit into Topre switch stems. No need to O-rings with these SP caps; moreover, O-rings do not work well with these SP caps because of the lack of support struts.

Although the SP keycaps seem to work well with the NT, I wish that SP had dye-sub PBT sets in DCS profile. I much prefer the surface feel of PBT over ABS. In addition, the pure black/white color scheme of the standard SP sets is rather stark.

I have't yet tried the SP DSA profile blank PBT keycaps (I don't own any of these yet). Whereas I like PBT, I would rather have a higher profile, and I find that I need legends on my keycaps, at least for the alphanumeric keys (I am okay with blanks for mods, F-keys, and navigation island keys).

[dorkvader]

you need to try SA tall sphericals. It's awesome!

Cherry thick POM aren't bad either

Although the SP keycaps seem to work well with the NT, I wish that SP had dye-sub PBT sets in DCS profile.

I have a set of DCS profile Dyesub PBT from SP. It's pretty nice, but I prefer it on clicky switches. ABS spacebar of course.

[Hypersphere]

Update: Regarding the standard DCS thin ABS doubleshots from SP, previously I had not installed the complete set on the NT. All the keys work fine with one exception: the Enter key. The Enter key clacks, just as all the keys did with the thick dye-sub PBT set.

At first, I thought it was the SP keycap, so I tried other Enter keys from SP with the same result (I have 2 sets; one black and one white, so that I can get a two-tone color scheme on 2 boards).

Next, I tried Enter keys from the Leopold PBT blank set, a vintage Dolch set, and a vintage Cherry set -- all with the same result: clack!

I have concluded that the problem lies with the hybrid Topre switch/stabilizer on the NT keyboard.

To alleviate the clack on the Enter key, I installed red 40A-L O-rings. I put one O-ring on each of the 3 stems in the Enter keycap. I also tried black soft landing pads, black 50A-R O-rings and blue 40A-R O-rings, as well as just one red O-ring on the center stem. I got the best result with 3 red O-rings; one on each of the 3 stems on the Enter keycap. This treatment results in the Enter key having about the same sound as the other keys; however, this makes the Enter key feel slightly mushier than other keys, and it is raised up higher than the other keys. These differences in the Enter key as a result of the O-rings do not seem to matter to me while typing, and on balance, I prefer having the improved sound for the Enter key.

The NT now seems more "Topre like", and subjectively at least, it now seems even quieter than my 55g RF 87ub. I am very pleased with the spacebar, which is quiet, and it responds evenly no matter where it is struck along its length.

The downside to the standard DCS thin doubleshot SP keycaps is that to me they look cheap. In particular, I have white alpha keys with black mods, and the black keys look like cheap pad-printed caps, despite the fact that they are doubleshots. Moreover, the keys have that clammy ABS feel rather than the slightly textured dry feel of PBT.

[Veridis]

This is from the Realforce 87u. It seems like if you use higher profile keycaps on the Novatouch, and cut off the side stems from the stabilized keycaps (rendering the stabilizers almost useless) you could get the quietness of the Realforce.

[Hypersphere]

After a while, I couldn't stand the feel of ABS any longer. I took off the SP ABS caps and put on a mix from three PBT sets: white dye-subs with blue legends for the alphas, white dye-subs with black legends for arrow keys, and the dark navy blue blank PBT set from Leopold for all the other keys. This setup is noisier than the SP ABS configuration, but on balance I'd rather have more noise than to contend with the clammy feel of ABS caps.

I really like the blank Leopold PBT set, and for various reasons I prefer blank mods, but I wish they would introduce a complementary set with a light background and dye-sub dark navy legends that I could use for the alphanumeric keys, for which I like to have highly visible legends.

[BucklingSpring]

Hi Guys - I don't feel like reading all this thread.

Can someone debrief me on what is wrong with the Novatouch? ie what makes it such less of a "real" Topre?

I just got mine today and besides the "what??? no leds for toggle keys" remark, it doesn't feel that bad.

[HoffmanMyster]

Can someone debrief me on what is wrong with the Novatouch? ie what makes it such less of a "real" Topre?

IMO?  Nothing.

[intelli78]

I consider it a 'problem' how GMK right shift and enter clack against the stabilizer housings. It's really bothersome. Aside from that, nothing, the value is great, especially at the prices Amazon has offered it at lately.

[rowdy]

Only 45g available.  Some consider the price to be too high.  Some artisan keycaps do not fit.

[BucklingSpring]

Thanks guys.

Only 45g available.  Some consider the price to be too high.  Some artisan keycaps do not fit.

Yeah the 45g is not my first choice either but I couldn't resit to a novelty design of the MX compatible stems. Does anyone have tried to scavenger heavier springs from another Topre and put them inside the Novatouch?

I'll make it my daily driver for a while and see for myself.

I can`t wait to notice if the spacebar will get shiny as fast as it does on a Realfarce.

[MythicalWagyu]

Thanks guys.

Only 45g available.  Some consider the price to be too high.  Some artisan keycaps do not fit.

Does anyone have tried to scavenger heavier springs from another Topre and put them inside the Novatouch?

I do believe it's the rubber used that determines the weighting of the keys... the conical springs are there for the capacitive part of the switch and offer very little resistance.

[spiceBar]

Listen to the magical Topre thock on the silenced Novatouch using nothing more than the native keycaps:
  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65853.0

Now this can probably be improved further with the right keycaps. I have the tall Filco doubleshots, and they thock a lot, but I find they make too much noise.

I don't have Cherry MX PBT keycaps. Too bad.

[Matt3o]

Hi Guys - I don't feel like reading all this thread.

Can someone debrief me on what is wrong with the Novatouch? ie what makes it such less of a "real" Topre?

I just got mine today and besides the "what??? no leds for toggle keys" remark, it doesn't feel that bad.

it's the worst of the topre I've tried (and I tried them all... well, most), but it's still a topre.

[_PixelNinja]

I do believe it's the rubber used that determines the weighting of the keys... the conical springs are there for the capacitive part of the switch and offer very little resistance.

Show Image

This is indeed the case. The springs only account for ~5g of the actuation force.

[BucklingSpring]

I do believe it's the rubber used that determines the weighting of the keys... the conical springs are there for the capacitive part of the switch and offer very little resistance.

Show Image

This is indeed the case. The springs only account for ~5g of the actuation force.

Ok - Does Topre sells domes separately?

[MythicalWagyu]

I do believe it's the rubber used that determines the weighting of the keys... the conical springs are there for the capacitive part of the switch and offer very little resistance.

Show Image

This is indeed the case. The springs only account for ~5g of the actuation force.

Ok - Does Topre sells domes separately?

Not that I'm aware of; you'd need a donor board to sacrifice.

[Hypersphere]

More's the pity that it seems necessary to do any number of tweaks to address the various issues with the Novatouch.

I also wish I had waited for a price drop. My NT was $200 shipped. Prices have since dropped on Amazon, although recently they are moving up again.

The right price of this board ought to be around $150 shipped and even less if CM would consider a naked or barebones version without keycaps (WASD keyboards offers barebones versions of their keyboards, so there is a precedent for this).

Nevertheless, it was a great idea to produce a keyboard with Topre switches and Cherry mx-compatible stems. I would like to see CM persist with this innovation and produce a more refined keyboard in a future release. I would still favor a TKL model, and one with a Fn key that could be remapped (such as a Fn/Menu toggle). A 60% would be welcome as well, but it is difficult to please everyone with the layout. I would be fine with anything that could be remapped to a HHKB Pro 2 configuration.

[_PixelNinja]

Nevertheless, it was a great idea to produce a keyboard with Topre switches and Cherry mx-compatible stems. I would like to see CM persist with this innovation and produce a more refined keyboard in a future release. I would still favor a TKL model, and one with a Fn key that could be remapped (such as a Fn/Menu toggle). A 60% would be welcome as well, but it is difficult to please everyone with the layout. I would be fine with anything that could be remapped to a HHKB Pro 2 configuration.

For what it's worth, rest assured that I am frequently pestering my contact at CM so that their Topre implementation goes from here upwards by forwarding people's attempts to mod the Novatouch in order to improve the sound and feel.

I hope other testers who have direct contact with CM are doing the same. 

[Hypersphere]

Nevertheless, it was a great idea to produce a keyboard with Topre switches and Cherry mx-compatible stems. I would like to see CM persist with this innovation and produce a more refined keyboard in a future release. I would still favor a TKL model, and one with a Fn key that could be remapped (such as a Fn/Menu toggle). A 60% would be welcome as well, but it is difficult to please everyone with the layout. I would be fine with anything that could be remapped to a HHKB Pro 2 configuration.

For what it's worth, rest assured that I am frequently pestering my contact at CM so that their Topre implementation goes from here upwards by forwarding people's attempts to mod the Novatouch in order to improve the sound and feel.

I hope other testers who have direct contact with CM are doing the same.

Excellent! Thank you for forwarding comments to CM to improve not only the sound and feel, but also to improve the functionality of the Novatouch and/or similar products that CM might choose to produce.

[mozaiq]

First of all please keep in mind that the following is written by someone who has never used a Topre board of any kind before. All mechs I own use Cherry MX switches and my favorite of these probably is Cherry MX Red. I really like reds but I wanted to try something different. So far I never looked for Topre boards since they are basically not available in Europe. Sure, there is international shipping but I was not willing to pay the Topre price plus international shipping plus customs, especially not if had to fear that I will end up not liking the board. As I said the linear reds are my favorite MX switch, while I really dislike browns. I now took my chance to test out a Novatouch since is available by German online shop, so if don’t like it, I can send it back quite easily.
First of all I have to say that the Novatouch in Germany is horrendously overpriced. I paid 180€ (~240$) for this board. So in fact I only managed to leave out the customs, since this is not really cheaper than other Topre boards.
Since I have read many reviews here on Geekhack my expectations on this board were not that high. When using the board for the first time I was there surprised – in a positive way. I actually like the feeling. It feels entirely different than Cherry switches. Some people stated that it feels like browns but honestly I have no idea how the Novatouch switches can resemble browns. It is totally different, in a positive way. I am not entirely used to the way the switches feel, I used blues for the past few days and the Novatouch switches feel entirely different. They also are much stiffer. This is not that bad but I am someone who has some problems transitioning between light and heavy switches. The longer I am typing this text here though the easier it gets. Just the spacebar feels way too heavy for me. That would probably be the key causing the most problems for me but now it seems to work already much better than in the beginning. So to conclude my initial impression: I somehow really like the Novatouch.
I am not sure whether it could become my daily driver though since there are so problems left. Many have criticized the rattling and I have to as well. This is really annoying for me. Also I think the spacebar is way too loud in the upstroke of the switch. A major dealbreaker for me is the right windows key this board has. I can’t remember the last time I used the right windows key, I exclusively use the left one. That’s not a problem by default, but most keyboards have a context menu key instead of the right windows key if they have a FN key as well. Now I use this context menu key all the time and I have to say this drives me nuts. Sure there is AHK but I really don’t understand they put a windows key there.
To sum it up, my initial impression is somewhat torn up. I will probably send it back since at this point it is just not worth the money for me but I haven’t decided yet. I really like the Topre feel somehow. It feels similar to a rubber dome keyboard since after all it is some sort of rubber dome, but it feels better than any ordinary rubber dome board I have tried so far. Only the hard bottoming out feeling is somehow disturbing me right now. On the long term I might end up not liking it while at the moment it is no problem. Now if Topre boards were not that expensive…

[_PixelNinja]

Mozaiq,

Try popping off that space bar, removing the extra spring, and installing O-Rings on the stems.

[mozaiq]

Mozaiq,

Try popping off that space bar, removing the extra spring, and installing O-Rings on the stems.

Thanks for the info, I will try this. Haven't tryed the O-Rings at all so far.

[spiceBar]

Mozaiq,

Try popping off that space bar, removing the extra spring, and installing O-Rings on the stems.

Thanks for the info, I will try this. Haven't tryed the O-Rings at all so far.

Yes, remove the spring and put an O-ring on the 2 lateral stems under the space bar. It should be a significant improvement.

To silence the upstroke, however, you would need to do the full silencing mod I have described in another post.

[_PixelNinja]

Thanks for the info, I will try this. Haven't tryed the O-Rings at all so far.

Without the spring, the landing is a bit harsh; installing O-Rings give the space bar a more uniform feel in relation to the other keys, in my experience. 

[mozaiq]

Thanks for the info, I will try this. Haven't tryed the O-Rings at all so far.

Without the spring, the landing is a bit harsh; installing O-Rings give the space bar a more uniform feel in relation to the other keys, in my experience.

I just did this and it is definitely better now. The only disadvantage now: I'm really considering buying Topre boards now. Damn you, wallethack

[colomb]

Thanks for the info, I will try this. Haven't tryed the O-Rings at all so far.

Without the spring, the landing is a bit harsh; installing O-Rings give the space bar a more uniform feel in relation to the other keys, in my experience.

I just did this and it is definitely better now. The only disadvantage now: I'm really considering buying Topre boards now. Damn you, wallethack

Yep, exactly what happened to me. I got the Novatouch and was relatively happy with it, but after reading several reviews all mostly saying other Topre boards were better, I had to find out for myself. I've been typing on a  Realforce 87u EK edition I got about two weeks ago. I'm still trying to gather my thoughts on the differences. Out of the box, the Realforce is better without a doubt. Once you I installed the supplied o-rings and thick PBT cherry profile keycaps, the differences were more subtle. Still stewing...

[LechnerDE]

First of all please keep in mind that the following is written by someone who has never used a Topre board of any kind before. All mechs I own use Cherry MX switches and my favorite of these probably is Cherry MX Red. I really like reds but I wanted to try something different. So far I never looked for Topre boards since they are basically not available in Europe. Sure, there is international shipping but I was not willing to pay the Topre price plus international shipping plus customs, especially not if had to fear that I will end up not liking the board. As I said the linear reds are my favorite MX switch, while I really dislike browns. I now took my chance to test out a Novatouch since is available by German online shop, so if don’t like it, I can send it back quite easily.
First of all I have to say that the Novatouch in Germany is horrendously overpriced. I paid 180€ (~240$) for this board. So in fact I only managed to leave out the customs, since this is not really cheaper than other Topre boards.
Since I have read many reviews here on Geekhack my expectations on this board were not that high. When using the board for the first time I was there surprised – in a positive way. I actually like the feeling. It feels entirely different than Cherry switches. Some people stated that it feels like browns but honestly I have no idea how the Novatouch switches can resemble browns. It is totally different, in a positive way. I am not entirely used to the way the switches feel, I used blues for the past few days and the Novatouch switches feel entirely different. They also are much stiffer. This is not that bad but I am someone who has some problems transitioning between light and heavy switches. The longer I am typing this text here though the easier it gets. Just the spacebar feels way too heavy for me. That would probably be the key causing the most problems for me but now it seems to work already much better than in the beginning. So to conclude my initial impression: I somehow really like the Novatouch.
I am not sure whether it could become my daily driver though since there are so problems left. Many have criticized the rattling and I have to as well. This is really annoying for me. Also I think the spacebar is way too loud in the upstroke of the switch. A major dealbreaker for me is the right windows key this board has. I can’t remember the last time I used the right windows key, I exclusively use the left one. That’s not a problem by default, but most keyboards have a context menu key instead of the right windows key if they have a FN key as well. Now I use this context menu key all the time and I have to say this drives me nuts. Sure there is AHK but I really don’t understand they put a windows key there.
To sum it up, my initial impression is somewhat torn up. I will probably send it back since at this point it is just not worth the money for me but I haven’t decided yet. I really like the Topre feel somehow. It feels similar to a rubber dome keyboard since after all it is some sort of rubber dome, but it feels better than any ordinary rubber dome board I have tried so far. Only the hard bottoming out feeling is somehow disturbing me right now. On the long term I might end up not liking it while at the moment it is no problem. Now if Topre boards were not that expensive…

I assume you ordered from http://www.getdigital.de/Cooler-Master-Novatouch-TKL-DE.html

Is the board in QWERTZ layout as the title suggests or do you have the ANSI version that is shown in the pics?!

[mozaiq]

Yeah, that's the shop I got it from. The board is standard DE-ISO.

[Ngt]

I finally read the whole 32 pages of this thread!    And I must confess that I still don't know which one to pick up between the RF 87u or the NT ...


I'm attracted to the RF because it looks so nice and bad ass also the quality seems to be higher than NT for pretty much the same price in Europe (180€ NT and 200€ RF). However if I don't like the RF stock keycaps I have no choice but to pay 150€ for another set or get the NT at that price.


The NT customization is the only asset to this board regarding the fact that so many improvements needs to be done on it.

[Hypersphere]

I like the idea of the NT, but it is currently sitting in a box in the closet while I am typing this on my RF 87ub 55g.

I did buy extra sets of keycaps for my RF keyboards, but I do not regret this at all. The dye-sub PBT caps are beautiful, both to the eye and to the touch. My home RF has white alphanumerics and arrow keys with all other keys in black/dark gray; my work RF has blue alphanumerics and arrow keys with all other keys in black/dark gray.

I suppose I could have saved some money by buying the white RF (87uw 55g), but I prefer the black case, and I like the black mods, in part because I use a hybrid Mac/HHKB layout, and with black mods I don't need to worry about finding the right legends.

[spiceBar]

I finally read the whole 32 pages of this thread!    And I must confess that I still don't know which one to pick up between the RF 87u or the NT ...


I'm attracted to the RF because it looks so nice and bad ass also the quality seems to be higher than NT for pretty much the same price in Europe (180€ NT and 200€ RF). However if I don't like the RF stock keycaps I have no choice but to pay 150€ for another set or get the NT at that price.


The NT customization is the only asset to this board regarding the fact that so many improvements needs to be done on it.

If you are not willing to spend time modding the keyboard, get the Realforce.

If you are willing to mod the keyboard, purchase the Novatouch.

A modded Novatouch has in my opinion a better value than a Realforce, modded or not. It accepts Cherry MX keycaps, has a smaller footprint, and the sound, feel and build quality are otherwise equivalent.

[Ngt]

I finally read the whole 32 pages of this thread!    And I must confess that I still don't know which one to pick up between the RF 87u or the NT ...


I'm attracted to the RF because it looks so nice and bad ass also the quality seems to be higher than NT for pretty much the same price in Europe (180€ NT and 200€ RF). However if I don't like the RF stock keycaps I have no choice but to pay 150€ for another set or get the NT at that price.


The NT customization is the only asset to this board regarding the fact that so many improvements needs to be done on it.

If you are not willing to spend time modding the keyboard, get the Realforce.

If you are willing to mod the keyboard, purchase the Novatouch.

A modded Novatouch has in my opinion a better value than a Realforce, modded or not. It accepts Cherry MX keycaps, has a smaller footprint, and the sound, feel and build quality are otherwise equivalent.

Well I'll be looking at the classified if I can find a cheaper NT. I figured it out today, thanks to azhdar, that neither ANSI AZERTY bothers me nor blank keycaps. In that regard I have now a lot of opportunities for keycaps and keyboards!

I must confess that I'm eager to perform your silencing mod.

I think I'll just give a shot to the NT.

[_PixelNinja]

Had I known I would have posted it here : yesterday there was a promotion going on at Rue du Commerce where the Novatouch was €144, shipped.

[sdiearly]

My test for key caps compatibility on CM novatouch.

https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Key_Mou_Pad/M.1412526550.A.50B.html