Author Topic: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?  (Read 6918 times)

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Offline blingcaps

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should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 08:44:32 »
started with a filco minila with browns.
then got a pure pro with reds.
then picked up a FC660C with 45g topres.

i can say i'm a topre convert now, as it's become my favorite switch.  prior to this i felt that i could switch between reds and browns easily and i'd enjoy them both.  but now, reds feel... like they're missing something.  and browns feel like they haven't decided what to do in between.

so that raises the question, are blues different enough from browns that it's worth buying?  thanks.

Offline Candyflip

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 08:45:41 »
Of course they are, all this time you've been missing that click  :p
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Offline Belfong

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 08:46:09 »
Absolutely - simply because for the clicky sound - which is a different experience altogether.
 

Offline epzy

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 09:01:14 »
Why not? Blues are way different from Browns. But, only 4 switch types and you're done? :P
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Offline phoenix1234

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 09:06:25 »
started with a filco minila with browns.
then got a pure pro with reds.
then picked up a FC660C with 45g topres.

i can say i'm a topre convert now, as it's become my favorite switch.  prior to this i felt that i could switch between reds and browns easily and i'd enjoy them both.  but now, reds feel... like they're missing something.  and browns feel like they haven't decided what to do in between.

so that raises the question, are blues different enough from browns that it's worth buying?  thanks.

Blue is not enough, you still need all of these to complete your collection :
60167-0
60169-1

Never mind, I lied  :))
You should take blue. It has both tactile and clicky feeling.
I like linear switches

Offline blingcaps

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 09:37:37 »
dear lord that's a lot of switches....

Offline Kliee

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 12:53:26 »
A collection is never complete until you have everything  ;D. You have to try everything !

That said, if your question meant : I love my topre and will never go back to cherry browns or red, so is it worth buying blues, hmmm, I would say no. After getting to know topre, I find myself really not a fan of cherry switches anymore (was not really a fan to begin with). That said, it's personnal and I still prefer to Have a Cherry board rather than "nothing" (membrane rubber dome) by far.

I always felt like something missed to any cherry switch I've tried (browns, blues, blacks, reds, clears).

The switches I always go back to without pain are still the Bucling Springs, and I consider them to be the best, with topre being a nice second. Also, I have great expectations for alps, I ordered a Dell AT101 to test blacks and maybe I will invest in a Matias if convinced.

Don't get me wrong, I like cherry switches, but I started on buckling springs and nothing has yet came near that switch.

But I digress  :-X hope that answered your question. Then, once again, it's personnal fellings!
Topre Realforce 104UB | IBM model M 1391401 (1987 & 1991), 52G9658 (1993), 51G8572 (1994) | Unicomp Customizer 105 (fr) | Unicomp Customizer 101 | Cherry G80-3000 MX Clear | Noppoo Choc Mini Mx Blue | Steelseries Steelkeys 6G V1 Mx Black

Offline Zeal

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 13:03:52 »
started with a filco minila with browns.
then got a pure pro with reds.
then picked up a FC660C with 45g topres.

i can say i'm a topre convert now, as it's become my favorite switch.  prior to this i felt that i could switch between reds and browns easily and i'd enjoy them both.  but now, reds feel... like they're missing something.  and browns feel like they haven't decided what to do in between.

so that raises the question, are blues different enough from browns that it's worth buying?  thanks.

Blue is not enough, you still need all of these to complete your collection :
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Never mind, I lied  :))
You should take blue. It has both tactile and clicky feeling.

I'm curious about that navy blue switch..and the Cherry Alps one too. :eek:
        "Bird have wing, bird will fly. Henry had wings.  Henry now fly." -Sent

Offline absfac

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 14:10:21 »
Let's get real here, you're not really asking. You're looking for us to encourage you to buy another keyboard. ;)

Blues definitely feel different from browns. How could they not? The click is not merely auditory. It creates a slight tactile sensation as well. Not surprising, sound is vibration.

One thing I would caution you about blues is that the keycap makes a much bigger difference to the sound than with other types of switches. With a dense PBT keycap I find that the switch makes a musical "chirp" but with a thin ABS keycap it sounds more like a "tick", a bit like a fingernail clipper. The latter gets on my nerves, the former I like. So if you buy a blue, you may find yourself hunting for more keycap sets because you're not satisfied with the sound...

Offline YuukiHaruto

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 14:11:31 »
You must! If you enjoy browns then clearly you are far from complete ... I hated brown right from the start. It's too mushy, there's basically almost zero usable tactility so it just feels like reds on sandpaper

Offline Candyflip

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 14:22:12 »
You must! If you enjoy browns then clearly you are far from complete ... I hated brown right from the start. It's too mushy, there's basically almost zero usable tactility so it just feels like reds on sandpaper
Ahm there is something called personal preferences you know...
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Offline rowdy

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 15:14:33 »
dear lord that's a lot of switches....

I can only see two Alps switches there, so that little collection is far from complete.

Yes, you should try MX blues, but if you already like Topre then be prepared to resell the MX blue board soon.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Zeal

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 15:56:28 »
dear lord that's a lot of switches....

I can only see two Alps switches there, so that little collection is far from complete.

Yes, you should try MX blues, but if you already like Topre then be prepared to resell the MX blue board soon.

Not sure about the black Alps, but the blue one looks like a Cherry branded Alps!  :eek:
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Offline rowdy

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 17:17:51 »
dear lord that's a lot of switches....

I can only see two Alps switches there, so that little collection is far from complete.

Yes, you should try MX blues, but if you already like Topre then be prepared to resell the MX blue board soon.

Not sure about the black Alps, but the blue one looks like a Cherry branded Alps!  :eek:

Alps-like, then?

In that case there is a whole world of Alps switches missing :eek:
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline jacobolus

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 06 April 2014, 20:18:43 »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 07 April 2014, 06:53:44 »
I am having trouble with the concept "complete my collection"

If you were a coin collector, and had several types of dimes and 1 quarter, would buying another dime "complete" your collection?

An actual keyboard collector would, in my opinion, feel the need to own at least one example of each of the major switch types.

Even a collector of Cherry switches would want half a dozen switches mounted in several different enclosures, it seems.

I am constantly amazed when people in this forum pretend that the universe of keyboards does not extend past Cherry and Topre.
" When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind'. "
– Alexander Hamilton 1792

Offline blingcaps

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 07 April 2014, 07:03:58 »
I am having trouble with the concept "complete my collection"
that's very true, but not many of us have infinite money...

if you want to go to the extreme, no one could ever possibly exhaust their collection, because then you have o-rings x landing pads x springs x switches x plate/pcb x 60/75/TKL/FS = like 800+ choices

i guess what i meant was completing the major attributes of various switches, and it looks like i'm missing the clicky attribute, which apparently is worth shelling out money for.

Offline Belfong

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 07 April 2014, 07:16:28 »
That's a good point Blingcaps.

I currently have MX Clears and Blues which I think 'completes' my MX switch as I have the best clicky and best quiet switch. I sold the MX Black so I know linear switches is not for me.

And then I have the HHKB and RF 55g, arguably the best of Topre.

And lastly, I have a Matias Quiets Pro and will eye the clicky version when Matias release it's 60% keyboard.

I believe I'm done at this moment and will channel my funds to key caps.
 

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 07 April 2014, 07:26:29 »
not many of us have infinite money

And I hardly meet my own criteria as stated above, but I do have various examples of several of the major types.

There is little reason to have more than half a dozen keyboards, perhaps a dozen at most, that you actually appreciate and use.

But you need to give them all a spin to really know what you like.
" When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind'. "
– Alexander Hamilton 1792

Offline Demetrium

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 07 April 2014, 09:03:18 »
started with a filco minila with browns.
then got a pure pro with reds.
then picked up a FC660C with 45g topres.

i can say i'm a topre convert now, as it's become my favorite switch.  prior to this i felt that i could switch between reds and browns easily and i'd enjoy them both.  but now, reds feel... like they're missing something.  and browns feel like they haven't decided what to do in between.

so that raises the question, are blues different enough from browns that it's worth buying?  thanks.

Have you tried blues before or are just curious? They're really not super different than browns. Basically clicky-browns if that makes any sense; just a really tiny bit harder to press.

Offline Candyflip

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 07 April 2014, 09:14:37 »
started with a filco minila with browns.
then got a pure pro with reds.
then picked up a FC660C with 45g topres.

i can say i'm a topre convert now, as it's become my favorite switch.  prior to this i felt that i could switch between reds and browns easily and i'd enjoy them both.  but now, reds feel... like they're missing something.  and browns feel like they haven't decided what to do in between.

so that raises the question, are blues different enough from browns that it's worth buying?  thanks.

Have you tried blues before or are just curious? They're really not super different than browns. Basically clicky-browns if that makes any sense; just a really tiny bit harder to press.
I disagree. The bump is bigger which makes it quite different in feel and also the sound... Very different switches if you ask me.
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Offline Linkbane

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 07 April 2014, 09:44:46 »
Have you tried blues before or are just curious? They're really not super different than browns. Basically clicky-browns if that makes any sense; just a really tiny bit harder to press.
I disagree. The bump is bigger which makes it quite different in feel and also the sound... Very different switches if you ask me.

Agreed. Blues have a stronger and sharp tactility which can't really be imagined from Browns. Try them before you buy.
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline YuukiHaruto

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 07 April 2014, 10:30:56 »
started with a filco minila with browns.
then got a pure pro with reds.
then picked up a FC660C with 45g topres.

i can say i'm a topre convert now, as it's become my favorite switch.  prior to this i felt that i could switch between reds and browns easily and i'd enjoy them both.  but now, reds feel... like they're missing something.  and browns feel like they haven't decided what to do in between.

so that raises the question, are blues different enough from browns that it's worth buying?  thanks.

Have you tried blues before or are just curious? They're really not super different than browns. Basically clicky-browns if that makes any sense; just a really tiny bit harder to press.

What you did there is just ... *CENSORED FOR US GOVERNMENT*

Blues are VERY different from browns. Unlike browns which has nearly no bump which contributes to it feeling gritty (Reds on sandpaper) either feel okay for some people or feel crappy for most people (me included), it has a very sharp bump and a nice click which changes it's characteristics completely.

Offline mrelectric

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 07 April 2014, 16:51:34 »
Blues are the best imo, much better than topre (45g topre at least)

Offline YuukiHaruto

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 07 April 2014, 21:30:26 »
Blues are the best imo, much better than topre (45g topre at least)
I still like topres over blues.

Offline Kliee

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 03:37:50 »
Blues are the best imo, much better than topre (45g topre at least)
I still like topres over blues.

I think it's the case of many here. But, I'm wondering if, in this case of Topre vs Mx Blue, Topre should be considered a guilty pleasure.
After all, I don't think Topre is as accurate typing as Blues. I personnaly don't like blues that much myself. I find the click (both tactile and audible) to be kinda, ... cheap. But they do click exactly when the key is registered (that's actually the whole point). I feel like the Topre is a little less accurate on this. So I don't know if a "real" typist would prefer a topre over blues. Even though I really prefer Topre myself.
Topre Realforce 104UB | IBM model M 1391401 (1987 & 1991), 52G9658 (1993), 51G8572 (1994) | Unicomp Customizer 105 (fr) | Unicomp Customizer 101 | Cherry G80-3000 MX Clear | Noppoo Choc Mini Mx Blue | Steelseries Steelkeys 6G V1 Mx Black

Offline intelli78

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 03:48:35 »
If you are really interested in collecting, as opposed to just using, you definitely need a Cherry MX Blue board.

If you are just curious whether you'll like Blues, go to Best Buy and try one before you shell out money.
Please consider carefully before you decide to comment, for Jesus.

Offline sth

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 03:48:50 »
if you want a clicky keyboard why not try a model M?
11:48 -!- SmallFry [~SmallFry@unaffiliated/smallfry] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] ... rest in peace

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 07:45:01 »
I find the click (both tactile and audible) to be kinda, ... cheap. But they do click exactly when the key is registered

If you are serious about actual typing, clicky Alps are much more satisfying than Cherries.
" When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind'. "
– Alexander Hamilton 1792

Offline Linkbane

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 08:32:23 »
Blues are the best imo, much better than topre (45g topre at least)
I still like topres over blues.

I think it's the case of many here. But, I'm wondering if, in this case of Topre vs Mx Blue, Topre should be considered a guilty pleasure.
After all, I don't think Topre is as accurate typing as Blues. I personnaly don't like blues that much myself. I find the click (both tactile and audible) to be kinda, ... cheap. But they do click exactly when the key is registered (that's actually the whole point). I feel like the Topre is a little less accurate on this. So I don't know if a "real" typist would prefer a topre over blues. Even though I really prefer Topre myself.

I couldn't have put it better myself.
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline Kliee

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 08:59:11 »
I find the click (both tactile and audible) to be kinda, ... cheap. But they do click exactly when the key is registered

If you are serious about actual typing, clicky Alps are much more satisfying than Cherries.

That's what I guessed from the sound of it :) . Sadly, Alps keyboards seem kind of rare these days and the only kinda "alps" (think it was a rip off) I could get my hands on were on an old laptop keyboard I bought on a garage sale. White clicky and tactile. Ok feeling, but not awesome. I have a DELL AT101 in the mail to test black Alps, but the one version I'd really like to try is the orange one.

Do you think of Alps as superior to BS for typing? For now BS is my reference. Sadly, one year of Mx Blue then Topre has "weakened" my fingers and now they're reluctant to go on a BS board...
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 April 2014, 09:01:24 by Kliee »
Topre Realforce 104UB | IBM model M 1391401 (1987 & 1991), 52G9658 (1993), 51G8572 (1994) | Unicomp Customizer 105 (fr) | Unicomp Customizer 101 | Cherry G80-3000 MX Clear | Noppoo Choc Mini Mx Blue | Steelseries Steelkeys 6G V1 Mx Black

Offline lonedruid

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 09:09:59 »
dude, get you blue. seriously
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Ducky shine 3 TKL blue switch http://i.imgur.com/5LcUxh.jpg
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Offline lonedruid

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 09:11:17 »
someone dont kill me over this please.
IMO
Blue>Topre
i said IMO!!! :p
Steelseries 6gv2 red switch
Ducky shine 3 TKL blue switch http://i.imgur.com/5LcUxh.jpg
HHKB Professional 2 no-blank http://i.imgur.com/JSIa1.pngk

Offline skuko

  • Posts: 624
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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 09:25:14 »
i have a TKL filco of every switch type they come in - blue, brown, red and black. i consider my collection of switches complete now....currently using tactile switches (browns at work and blue at home), but i'm going to go to linears (red for at least my home usage.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 09:25:17 »

Sadly, one year of Mx Blue then Topre has "weakened" my fingers and now they're reluctant to go on a BS board...


I am an old man, and I learned to type on a manual typewriter in the 1960s.

In order to type on one of those, the fingertip needs to shoot downwards like a spear, with a flick of the wrist to add momentum, then recoil back. With that typing style, the force of the switch is not very important to me.

So, while I really do prefer very light switches, the precision of buckling springs is worth the extra effort involved. Also, depending on my mood, I sometimes strike very hard and sometimes very soft. Buckling springs don't care.

A person trained on modern keyboards, scissor-switch laptops in particular, probably allows his fingers to float just over the keys and dip down with a light touch. That person is probably very sensitive to actuation force and may not like tactile switches at all.
" When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind'. "
– Alexander Hamilton 1792

Offline Linkbane

  • Posts: 1534
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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 10:46:49 »

Sadly, one year of Mx Blue then Topre has "weakened" my fingers and now they're reluctant to go on a BS board...


I am an old man, and I learned to type on a manual typewriter in the 1960s.

In order to type on one of those, the fingertip needs to shoot downwards like a spear, with a flick of the wrist to add momentum, then recoil back. With that typing style, the force of the switch is not very important to me.

So, while I really do prefer very light switches, the precision of buckling springs is worth the extra effort involved. Also, depending on my mood, I sometimes strike very hard and sometimes very soft. Buckling springs don't care.

A person trained on modern keyboards, scissor-switch laptops in particular, probably allows his fingers to float just over the keys and dip down with a light touch. That person is probably very sensitive to actuation force and may not like tactile switches at all.

I don't think that your assumption is correct. Almost all modern keyboards have quite a bit of feedback, making tactile switches more popular than linear. I grew up using scissor switches, and using light typing is just so much better for speed and the fingers that it seems completely redundant that anyone would want to use more force than necessary on a board.
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline Kliee

  • Posts: 42
  • Location: France
Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 11:31:18 »
In order to type on one of those, the fingertip needs to shoot downwards like a spear, with a flick of the wrist to add momentum, then recoil back. With that typing style, the force of the switch is not very important to me.

[...]

A person trained on modern keyboards, scissor-switch laptops in particular, probably allows his fingers to float just over the keys and dip down with a light touch.

Good advice. Yes, actually I think I got lazy typing on light switches and adopted a bad typing position. I have a new Model M (1391401) coming tomorrow, I plan on using it as my daily driver for some time, so I'll keep that in mind !

I think the main "problem" with the way people of my generation (and younger) type is not having been trained on modern keyboards, it's not having been trained at all. We don't learn how to type anymore and even though I always try not to rest my wrist while typing I know I'm far from having good typist's habits, even though seating in a front of a computer typing is basicaly what I do for a living.
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 April 2014, 17:25:23 by Kliee »
Topre Realforce 104UB | IBM model M 1391401 (1987 & 1991), 52G9658 (1993), 51G8572 (1994) | Unicomp Customizer 105 (fr) | Unicomp Customizer 101 | Cherry G80-3000 MX Clear | Noppoo Choc Mini Mx Blue | Steelseries Steelkeys 6G V1 Mx Black

Offline False_Dmitry_II

  • Posts: 1106
Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 12:00:27 »
They did try to teach me how to type, but I never adapted the whole certain keys are to be hit with certain fingers thing.

But, "Blues is the best clicky switch"? No if you're looking for something that sounds like that, space invaders and/or blue montereys. They're just better. Both of those also are supposed to not have hysteresis either, so that's an added bonus for gamers. Then there's buckling springs, clicky alps, even acer, etc. I've sold my only modern board, it was a das with blues, because I use plenty of other stuff instead.

I agree with it seeming that people act like MX and topre are all that exist. Sometimes it's because they only buy new, but then they expressly ignore matias stuff even though those are also new and also they have NKRO.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)

Offline Linkbane

  • Posts: 1534
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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 12:34:18 »
But, "Blues is the best clicky switch"? No if you're looking for something that sounds like that, space invaders and/or blue montereys. They're just better.

That's really the problem here, people saying that things are 'better' objectively. It's better in your opinion because perhaps you like the feeling of the click more or the sound, or whatever, but unlike you, in my opinion I think that Blues are the best clicky switch. They're light, have a pleasant sound, and are the best for extended periods of typing.
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline tricheboars

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 13:20:12 »
They did try to teach me how to type, but I never adapted the whole certain keys are to be hit with certain fingers thing.

But, "Blues is the best clicky switch"? No if you're looking for something that sounds like that, space invaders and/or blue montereys. They're just better. Both of those also are supposed to not have hysteresis either, so that's an added bonus for gamers. Then there's buckling springs, clicky alps, even acer, etc. I've sold my only modern board, it was a das with blues, because I use plenty of other stuff instead.

I agree with it seeming that people act like MX and topre are all that exist. Sometimes it's because they only buy new, but then they expressly ignore matias stuff even though those are also new and also they have NKRO.

oh please.  you sound like a hipster in this post.  i agree with linkbane and that opinions are opinions. 

i also believe that people who often have rare or hard to find products exaggerate their worth simply because of the journey to acquire them.  anyone who spends money on ebay to salvage switches and reinstall them is going to have some buyers bias in order to make their efforts feel worth while.  i have typed on alps and found them extremely overwhelming.  i think this is due to me not owning or building
the board but rather just testing it.  i went in with a much more open mind than the creator. 

cherry mx blues are a fantastic switch.  they are easy to acquire and feel great to type with. 

|  Fundamentalist ErgoDox Zealot  |

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3660
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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 13:22:10 »
But, "Blues is the best clicky switch"? No if you're looking for something that sounds like that, space invaders and/or blue montereys. They're just better.

That's really the problem here, people saying that things are 'better' objectively. It's better in your opinion because perhaps you like the feeling of the click more or the sound, or whatever, but unlike you, in my opinion I think that Blues are the best clicky switch. They're light, have a pleasant sound, and are the best for extended periods of typing.
Which other clicky switches have you tried? You like Cherry MX blue better than Model F switches? Beam springs?

HaaTa has a couple of obscure clicky-switch keyboards which basically everyone agrees are *amazing*, e.g. http://deskthority.net/wiki/Marquardt_Butterfly

Offline False_Dmitry_II

  • Posts: 1106
Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 13:34:24 »
The click sound that both of the ones I mentioned are pretty close in sound (SI more than monterey blues), and also are close in actuation point. I've even had SI near blues and when someone else types on both, it's actually a contest to determine which is which by sound alone (granted, that was when both were new to me, so I may be able to do it now). They also both do not have hysteresis, which does, in fact, make them objectively better. This is only irrelevant if hysteresis matters not at all.

Space invaders also have more stability, because the entire visible switch is also the slider. There is no way to replicate that without doing a similar thing.

I will say that there is alot of room for opinion, preferring linear over others or what have you, but when there are objectively measurable differences, they can absolutely be compared in those terms. Given your sig, it also looks possible like you've only tried blues for clicky. Even if it were alps vs blues I'd agree that's mostly preference, other than still having hysteresis issues.

But hey, I guess I shouldn't complain too much, because it makes it easier for me to find non-cherry things.

Edit: @tricheboars
A hipster, lol. Just so you know there is alot of variation in vintage alps. I have/killed-for-click-leaves a white alps board that is amazingly stiff and was useless for virtually everything, not sure what they did to it but it was not particularly likable. So you could have easily tried something randomly bad. Now that those same click leaves are in something else which did not have the same stiffness problems, they are much better (though I haven't put caps back on yet - that's the last step). There also isn't much 'journey' in just buying stuff on ebay, for example my monterey blues - was I lucky when I got it? Absolutely, but that didn't color anything about it. I haven't even done anything to it.
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 April 2014, 13:42:48 by False_Dmitry_II »
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)

Offline Linkbane

  • Posts: 1534
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 14:47:00 »
But, "Blues is the best clicky switch"? No if you're looking for something that sounds like that, space invaders and/or blue montereys. They're just better.

That's really the problem here, people saying that things are 'better' objectively. It's better in your opinion because perhaps you like the feeling of the click more or the sound, or whatever, but unlike you, in my opinion I think that Blues are the best clicky switch. They're light, have a pleasant sound, and are the best for extended periods of typing.
Which other clicky switches have you tried? You like Cherry MX blue better than Model F switches? Beam springs?

HaaTa has a couple of obscure clicky-switch keyboards which basically everyone agrees are *amazing*, e.g. http://deskthority.net/wiki/Marquardt_Butterfly

I do like them more than Modlel F and M switches. And you know, that's all personal opinion, which is unaffected by that of others.

Also, hysteresis does NOT make anything objectively better. In fact, for typing, I'd rather the key come out at the end of the click to avoid keystrokes coming out from an unintentional light press.

Dmitry, don't assume on the internet. Obviously the only reason I have Blues for clicky witches is that I like them. I have tried Model F, M, and Greens, none of which I would like to type on for extended periods of time. I don't understand why you want to argue that your switch is better than mine, because it doesn't change my opinion of the switch. Whether you say there's an inch of hysteresis or not doesn't change my experience with them.
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3660
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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 16:15:24 »
I do like [Cherry MX blue] more than Modlel F and M switches. And you know, that's all personal opinion, which is unaffected by that of others.
Well, fair enough. What didn’t you like about Model F switches? (I think they’re really sweet to type on, but have a bit less post-actuation travel than I’d prefer.) Have you tried a beam spring board? Which aspects do you particularly like about Cherry MX blue?

I definitely recommend trying SMK clicky switches (either Alps mount, MX mount, or inverse cross mount), clicky space invader switches, cyan Omron B3G-S switches, and possibly blue Alps. I like the tactile feeling of all four much better than Cherry MX blue switches, and they’re fairly similar in general concept. I also like the sound better, but that’s less important to me.

Cherry MX blue, like all MX switches, has a force curve which is basically linear, with a slight bump away from that line from the plastic-on-plastic friction of the slider bump. Other clicky switches have substantially different force curves, with a very steep force drop at their click point. Personally, I find this much more obvious tactile feedback to be very helpful and nice feeling.
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 April 2014, 16:22:23 by jacobolus »

Offline Linkbane

  • Posts: 1534
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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 16:37:28 »
I do like [Cherry MX blue] more than Modlel F and M switches. And you know, that's all personal opinion, which is unaffected by that of others.
Well, fair enough. What didn’t you like about Model F switches? (I think they’re really sweet to type on, but have a bit less post-actuation travel than I’d prefer.) Have you tried a beam spring board? Which aspects do you particularly like about Cherry MX blue?

I definitely recommend trying SMK clicky switches (either Alps mount, MX mount, or inverse cross mount), clicky space invader switches, cyan Omron B3G-S switches, and possibly blue Alps. I like the tactile feeling of all four much better than Cherry MX blue switches, and they’re fairly similar in general concept. I also like the sound better, but that’s less important to me.

The Model f had a lovely sound, it was just somewhat hollow, and felt like it was among weightless when it wasn't being actuated. I remember just yesterday or today someone made a post talking about switches; we like the feel of Topres more because they're soft and mammary-like, but they're just not as accurate for extended typing or very fast typing like clicky switches. I was being mostly hypothetical in my earlier post, to be honest, Dmitry's presumptuous attitude in concluding that a switch was 'better' with no clear definition and no clue about real typing was irritating me. Model M boards are excellent as well, but like F switches, I prefer them for short periods of time.

Typing quickly is exponentially more tiring as it ramps up, in my experience, so something light is necessary for myself at least, either Topre 45g or a light MX switch.
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline False_Dmitry_II

  • Posts: 1106
Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 16:43:46 »
FYI that's not what hysteresis means, on all clicky switches the click is supposed to happen at the same time as actuation. The hysteresis comes in on blues because it has to go higher than the actual actuation point for the click... bean i guess.. to get back into position and then will be able to activate again. There is a little of that on buckling springs for example for the springs to become vertical again rather than buckled - although some have said they've been able to double tap without going all the way back to that state.

You should really try more than just two types though.

@jacobolus
Give me a mx-mount SMK. The one thing I miss is the ability for novelty caps, even if I really do like my dyed PBT keys. I still haven't tried any omron keyboards.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 16:56:20 »
that it seems completely redundant that anyone would want to use more force than necessary on a board.

Did you miss the part about "mood"?

But I totally agree. If IBM buckling springs came with a variant that required half as much force, I would be all over it.
" When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind'. "
– Alexander Hamilton 1792

Offline Linkbane

  • Posts: 1534
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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 16:59:03 »
FYI that's not what hysteresis means, on all clicky switches the click is supposed to happen at the same time as actuation. The hysteresis comes in on blues because it has to go higher than the actual actuation point for the click... bean i guess.. to get back into position and then will be able to activate again. There is a little of that on buckling springs for example for the springs to become vertical again rather than buckled - although some have said they've been able to double tap without going all the way back to that state.

You should really try more than just two types though.

I've clearly tried four, read a little harder.
Rest point is such an pointless thing to worry about on clicky switches. It's already well-known that on any clicky switch, M/F/Alps, will be much worse at double-tapping than any other switch, because it's meant for typing, and not gaming. It seems less than semantics to debate something's use for what it is not intended, like judging the smoothness of a rubber dome.

fohat, I agree. It's not for want of excellent feeling, it's just a little much to type on an M for hours.
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline Kliee

  • Posts: 42
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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 17:23:36 »
FYI that's not what hysteresis means, on all clicky switches the click is supposed to happen at the same time as actuation. The hysteresis comes in on blues because it has to go higher than the actual actuation point for the click... bean i guess.. to get back into position and then will be able to activate again. There is a little of that on buckling springs for example for the springs to become vertical again rather than buckled - although some have said they've been able to double tap without going all the way back to that state.

You should really try more than just two types though.
fohat, I agree. It's not for want of excellent feeling, it's just a little much to type on an M for hours.

Well, I think for this it's more a matter of habit. Before going Mx Blue and Topre I used "stronger switches", like Mx Clear or BS, for countless hours and it just felt right. Since one year I just use light switches so I've lost the habit and I also have developed a "lazy" typing position.


But thanks to this thread I finaly know why I don't find Mx Blues really awesome (and Cherry's switches in general, even though I kinda like clears) :
- too linears in the force you have to give, just a little click "in the middle" and that's all (kind of exagerated but still kinda true)
- the way the key is mounted on the switch gives a little lousy feeling while on other switches the keys are better seated on the switches

Then again I like blues, just not as much as some other switches

Topre Realforce 104UB | IBM model M 1391401 (1987 & 1991), 52G9658 (1993), 51G8572 (1994) | Unicomp Customizer 105 (fr) | Unicomp Customizer 101 | Cherry G80-3000 MX Clear | Noppoo Choc Mini Mx Blue | Steelseries Steelkeys 6G V1 Mx Black

Offline Linkbane

  • Posts: 1534
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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #49 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 17:31:38 »
FYI that's not what hysteresis means, on all clicky switches the click is supposed to happen at the same time as actuation. The hysteresis comes in on blues because it has to go higher than the actual actuation point for the click... bean i guess.. to get back into position and then will be able to activate again. There is a little of that on buckling springs for example for the springs to become vertical again rather than buckled - although some have said they've been able to double tap without going all the way back to that state.

You should really try more than just two types though.
fohat, I agree. It's not for want of excellent feeling, it's just a little much to type on an M for hours.

Well, I think for this it's more a matter of habit. Before going Mx Blue and Topre I used "stronger switches", like Mx Clear or BS, for countless hours and it just felt right. Since one year I just use light switches so I've lost the habit and I also have developed a "lazy" typing position.


But thanks to this thread I finaly know why I don't find Mx Blues really awesome (and Cherry's switches in general, even though I kinda like clears) :
- too linears in the force you have to give, just a little click "in the middle" and that's all (kind of exagerated but still kinda true)
- the way the key is mounted on the switch gives a little lousy feeling while on other switches the keys are better seated on the switches

Then again I like blues, just not as much as some other switches

Simple solution, try typing at about an average of 120 wpm or so when doing everyday tasks on heavier switches. See how it feels to be me.
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3660
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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #50 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 17:48:04 »
Here are some measurements of various clicky switches made last week using HaaTa’s force gauge. Note, these are just measuring a single switch from a single keyboard, so might not be ideally representative. x-axis is micrometers, y-axis is grams-force.

Cherry MX blue:


IBM Model F:


Amber Omron B3G-S:


Cyan Omron B3G-S


Blue SMK Alps-mount:


Marquardt butterfly switch:
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 April 2014, 17:57:49 by jacobolus »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #51 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 17:50:14 »
Awesome! Totally explains why Model F and Alps/SMK blues are my favorites.

But just what are the axes measuring?
" When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind'. "
– Alexander Hamilton 1792

Offline jacobolus

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #52 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 17:51:24 »
But just what are the axes measuring?
x-axis is micrometers, y-axis is grams-force.

Offline False_Dmitry_II

  • Posts: 1106
Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #53 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 17:55:28 »
I've clearly tried four, read a little harder.

No, that's two different types. Greens and blues have a spring strength difference, and F and M are still both buckling springs. i.e. You've tried MX clicky and BS. That's two types. Preemptive explanation: If you consider greens and blues as fundamentally different, then the number of varieties of cherry mx switches approaches infinity; and that's before any other manufacturers are considered.

But thanks to this thread I finaly know why I don't find Mx Blues really awesome (and Cherry's switches in general, even though I kinda like clears) :
- too linears in the force you have to give, just a little click "in the middle" and that's all (kind of exagerated but still kinda true)
- the way the key is mounted on the switch gives a little lousy feeling while on other switches the keys are better seated on the switches

Then again I like blues, just not as much as some other switches

Yeah, I probably would have used blues more, but I got those and SI at roughly the same time. I eventually just decided that I liked those more, it's not that I necessarily dislike blues. I even used it for another day or two before I sold mine so I could be sure I was willing to. If it was between blues and back to RD's I'd obviously choose blues, but that's a bit extreme.

You should see what matias says about MX, though.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)


Offline Red0y0s

  • Posts: 10
Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 18:38:11 »
Dude, the click is where it's at!!!

Got a ducky shine 3 (Blue) for home and much to the disappointment of my co-workers, got a Filco Majestouch 2 (Blue) for work.

I do recommend using o-rings though! They are a must in my opinion.

Offline Kliee

  • Posts: 42
  • Location: France
Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 18:45:41 »
You should see what matias says about MX, though.
http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/1wknkm/i_am_edgar_matias_designer_of_matias_keyboards/cf30dlk

I kind of agree with what he says, makes me want to try Matias keyboards/Alps even more !
That said, saying the Cherry switches feel like cheap rubber domes, he's dramaticaly exagerating... or trolling.

Simple solution, try typing at about an average of 120 wpm or so when doing everyday tasks on heavier switches. See how it feels to be me.

Hmmm, I confess I don't type that fast. With BS I reach 60/65 WPM with 100% accuracy, with Topre and Cherry (even clears), 55 with 100% accuracy. So yeah, maybe with that speed it would get tiring (and awfully loud  ;D).
Then again, a lot of typists from the times of the model M, or even before the computer era with typewriters, used heavy switches for 8 hours of furious typing everyday. So I still tend to think it's a habit to take.
I'm absolutely not saying that BS is the way to go and that light switches are wrong. As usual, it's a matter of feeling.

« Last Edit: Tue, 08 April 2014, 18:47:14 by Kliee »
Topre Realforce 104UB | IBM model M 1391401 (1987 & 1991), 52G9658 (1993), 51G8572 (1994) | Unicomp Customizer 105 (fr) | Unicomp Customizer 101 | Cherry G80-3000 MX Clear | Noppoo Choc Mini Mx Blue | Steelseries Steelkeys 6G V1 Mx Black

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: should i complete my collection with cherry blues?
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 19:01:53 »
I do recommend using o-rings though! They are a must in my opinion.

O-rings are best for all other Cherries, but for blue I like soft landing pads.
" When a man unprincipled in private life, desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, despotic in his ordinary demeanour — known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty — when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity — to join in the cry of danger to liberty — to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion — to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day — It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind'. "
– Alexander Hamilton 1792