The Electric Chair is Back!

[microsoft windows]

The electric chair is back! In Tennessee, that is. The state government of TN has announced that they are returning "Old Sparky" into service due to issues with execution by lethal injection.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/23/tenn-brings-back-electric-chair/

So, how do you feel about the use of the electric chair for the death penalty? Is it a good idea?

[SpAmRaY]

so long as it works better than the one in the green mile

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

so long as it works better than the one in the green mile

WET THE SPONGE

[C5Allroad]

I don't like the death penalty.... Unless they know it was him/her who did the crime, don't put them on death penalty.

Weren't there a few cases where the person who died was the wrong person?

[paicrai]

no ****
don't kill the wrong guy

[Findecanor]

Weren't there a few cases where the person who died was the wrong person?

Few!? At least 4.1% of inmates on Death Row are probably innocent. That is, for every 47 people who are guilty, there are two who are innocent.

The electric chair is far from painless. A shot in the neck, like the do in China, is less painful.

That said, all modern civilized states have abolished the death penalty. I think the last states in the US who still have the death penalty should join the 21st century.

[paicrai]

I'd totes have the death penalty in any country, if the crime is severe enough.

[vun]

Let's make this interesting; anyone in support of death penalty should be subjected to it.

[paicrai]

Not even remotely interesting.

[metalliqaz]

The question often asked is whether a convict deserves to die for his or her crime.  This is a difficult question whose answer may very well be "probably yes".

However it is the wrong question to ask.  The right question is if we deserve to kill.  The answer is no, we don't.

For any enlightened person, it's that simple.

[Krogenar]

So, how do you feel about the use of the electric chair for the death penalty? Is it a good idea?

Well, from the article you cited, this:

in the event prisons are unable to obtain the drugs, which have become more and more scarce following a European-led boycott of drug sales for executions.

Ok, so, in protest of capital punishment, the drug companies that could provide the compounds needed to levy the punishment in the most humane way possible are now not available, necessitating the return of the electric chair. This makes sense, how? Well, it makes sense if your only real reason for opposing capital punishment is to strike an 'enlightened' pose.

The electric chair by far the worst possible way to execute someone -- hanging or firing squad would be better. The electric chair was designed in the same way that radium (when first discovered) was applied to nearly everything as some kind of 'wonder ingredient'. Electricity was the wave of the future (at one point) and so it was only natural that someone would say, "Can we kill with it?" It's a horrific way to execute someone. Lethal injection is far more humane.

Regardless of how anyone feels about capital punishment, the sentence should be applied with the least amount of pain and suffering to the convict -- something their victims rarely receive.

[Tarzan]

The question often asked is whether a convict deserves to die for his or her crime.  This is a difficult question whose answer may very well be "probably yes".

However it is the wrong question to ask.  The right question is if we deserve to kill.  The answer is no, we don't.

For any enlightened person, it's that simple.

Exactly.  It's insane that so many states maintain that the ultimate punishment for killing someone, is to kill someone.

Not to mention the fact that people even on death row have been exonerated by DNA testing, or recanted confessions by others.  Some percentage of people being put to death by the state have been innocent, yet we continue to do it.

It's sickening, and shameful.  America is better than that.

[digi]

They should implement this in every state in the US.

Especially with the murder rates that exist in California. Killers get a slap on the wrist 15-30 years in prison. At the same time someone who sells a bunch of weed gets a 10 year sentence, it's ludicrous.

If you kill, you should get the chair, old school laws need to come back. How many Americans do we house in the prison system know, over 2 million?

[Krogenar]

Not to mention the fact that people even on death row have been exonerated by DNA testing, or recanted confessions by others.  Some percentage of people being put to death by the state have been innocent, yet we continue to do it.

Name five people who were innocent, that were put to death. Five, please. Try to keep them in the last century or so.

In my own view, capital punishment is not actually a deterrent, as the criminals usually put to death don't have the intellectual capacity to say, "Mmmm... I think this will earn me a death penalty. I'll find some other crime to commit." These kinds of criminals aren't capable of making those kinds of decisiosn. But the death penalty does feel like justice in some particularly heinous cases. Why should someone who tortured and murdered other human beings get three squares a day and see the sun rise, while their victims are gone?

Anyway, five innocent people please, I'd love to review them.

[SpAmRaY]

usa prison/justice system is just entirely a mess

[hwood34]

Or maybe instead of a criminal system that turns petty criminals into much more serious ones, have jails that prepare them for reintroduction to the world and turn them into functioning members of society

[Krogenar]

usa prison/justice system is just entirely a mess

The drug laws are a mess, in my opinion. The cost of the prison system is another issue. Bring back making prisoners work for their meals.

[Tarzan]

They should implement this in every state in the US.

Especially with the murder rates that exist in California. Killers get a slap on the wrist 15-30 years in prison. At the same time someone who sells a bunch of weed gets a 10 year sentence, it's ludicrous.

If you kill, you should get the chair, old school laws need to come back. How many Americans do we house in the prison system know, over 2 million?

The number of people being incarcerated in the US is continuing to drop, and has been on the decline for the past few decades.  Going back two years, violent crime has dropped 4.5%.  Five years; 18.1%.  We're down a whopping 21.9% in violent crime if you look back 10 years.

All data collected is up through 2011, there is a lag time in data collection and categorization.

And I personally believe life imprisonment is a far harsher penalty than execution.  Plus, people who are found to be unjustly convicted can be released, something not possible with capital punishment.

[SpAmRaY]

Or maybe instead of a criminal system that turns petty criminals into much more serious ones, have jails that prepare them for reintroduction to the world and turn them into functioning members of society

I think that is the struggle, how to do that? Clearly the current system isn't working.

[hwood34]

Or maybe instead of a criminal system that turns petty criminals into much more serious ones, have jails that prepare them for reintroduction to the world and turn them into functioning members of society

I think that is the struggle, how to do that? Clearly the current system isn't working.

I forgot which country it was, Eastern European, maybe Norway? It has nice rooms with appliances and facilities, inmates have team building activities, TV, and other things you'd find outside of jail. They try to encourage hard and honest work.

[Tarzan]

Or maybe instead of a criminal system that turns petty criminals into much more serious ones, have jails that prepare them for reintroduction to the world and turn them into functioning members of society

I think that is the struggle, how to do that? Clearly the current system isn't working.

There's been a real shift in US penal practices, away from anything that smacks of rehabilitation, and instead shifting towards outright punishment.  And now we have private companies like CCA that have a vested financial interest in maintaining high prison populations, leading to atrocities like that judge in New England who was sentencing non-violent juvenile offenders to prison in exchange for bribes from the private prison company.

If there's a buck to be made from incarcerating someone, you can bet there will be people pushing to maximize that income stream.

[Krogenar]

Or maybe instead of a criminal system that turns petty criminals into much more serious ones, have jails that prepare them for reintroduction to the world and turn them into functioning members of society

I think that is the struggle, how to do that? Clearly the current system isn't working.

There are Pell Grants, etc. -- all sorts of programs to help transition convicts, etc. What I would do is require them to perform work in exchange for the room and board -- work that will help train them for something else when they're released, hopefully. This would at least reduce the cost of the prison system. And change the drug laws. New law: all drugs are legal, but if you cook your brain and reduce it to the functional equivalent of a Chicken McNugget, the government is not going to pay for your healthcare or your rehabilitation, etc. So, it's all okay, but the consequences fall on you, not your fellow citizens.

[Melvang]

I personally am all for the death penalty.  To those of you that feel it should cause the least amount of pain and suffering, what about their victims.  The only issue I have with the current implementation of the death penalty is the cost.  How much does a bullet cost?   I understand most of the cost is associated with the massive amounts of paperwork and logistics involved.  But I still feel it could be much cheaper via firing squad.  Hell, get the victims family the opportunity to pull the trigger as well.  Put it on live broadcast TV.  Also, apply it to more crimes, especially involving rape. 

In my opinion some of the primary reasons there is so much crime in this country today is based on 2 facts.  Punishments for crimes these days are no longer a punishment when the inmates get 3 square meals a day, TV, and the chance at education higher than a GED.  Couple this with the drastic tightening of gun control laws making it more and more difficult for the law abiding citizen to protect themselves (though this is a completely other debate).

[Tarzan]

I personally am all for the death penalty.  To those of you that feel it should cause the least amount of pain and suffering, what about their victims.  The only issue I have with the current implementation of the death penalty is the cost.  How much does a bullet cost?   I understand most of the cost is associated with the massive amounts of paperwork and logistics involved.  But I still feel it could be much cheaper via firing squad.  Hell, get the victims family the opportunity to pull the trigger as well.  Put it on live broadcast TV.  Also, apply it to more crimes, especially involving rape. 

In my opinion some of the primary reasons there is so much crime in this country today is based on 2 facts.  Punishments for crimes these days are no longer a punishment when the inmates get 3 square meals a day, TV, and the chance at education higher than a GED.  Couple this with the drastic tightening of gun control laws making it more and more difficult for the law abiding citizen to protect themselves (though this is a completely other debate).

Our positions on this differ diametrically, Melvang.  For example, you've stated two things as facts which are not.

1. Crime rates are dropping for every category of crime, and have been for decades. 

2. Since the horrible massacre of children at Sandy Hook, twice as many laws have been passed easing any possible restrictions on guns than have been passed to restrict gun ownership.  This is a continuing trend, not an anomaly.

These are both facts, not opinions, and can be verified by anyone.  Your support for the death penalty is noted, but you focus only on the victims.  What about the rest of society, and those of us appalled that the state is killing in our name?  Or the fact that people on death row are not always guilty.  What percentage of innocents killed should be accept, in order to keep killing convicts?

There's a reason most civilized countries have abolished the death penalty.

[berserkfan]

I personally am all for the death penalty.  To those of you that feel it should cause the least amount of pain and suffering, what about their victims.  The only issue I have with the current implementation of the death penalty is the cost.  How much does a bullet cost?   I understand most of the cost is associated with the massive amounts of paperwork and logistics involved.  But I still feel it could be much cheaper via firing squad.  Hell, get the victims family the opportunity to pull the trigger as well.  Put it on live broadcast TV.  Also, apply it to more crimes, especially involving rape. 

In my opinion some of the primary reasons there is so much crime in this country today is based on 2 facts.  Punishments for crimes these days are no longer a punishment when the inmates get 3 square meals a day, TV, and the chance at education higher than a GED.  Couple this with the drastic tightening of gun control laws making it more and more difficult for the law abiding citizen to protect themselves (though this is a completely other debate).

Strongly agree with you. If only there was a way to create a registry of 'acceptable victims and unacceptable victims'. Those for the death penalty go on the list of unacceptable victims. Those who think death penalty is bad and that it's all society's fault and that criminals should be made comfortable in prison with the opportunity to get free education, should be listed as 'acceptable victims'. Then crooks can use their smartphone apps to scan potential victims. If they attack an 'acceptable victim' they get free room, board, 24-hour security, gym facilities, guaranteed part time jobs, free education. If they attack an 'unacceptable victim', the victim's family and friends get to pull the trigger in a firing squad.

[baldgye]

Not to mention the fact that people even on death row have been exonerated by DNA testing, or recanted confessions by others.  Some percentage of people being put to death by the state have been innocent, yet we continue to do it.

Name five people who were innocent, that were put to death. Five, please. Try to keep them in the last century or so.

In my own view, capital punishment is not actually a deterrent, as the criminals usually put to death don't have the intellectual capacity to say, "Mmmm... I think this will earn me a death penalty. I'll find some other crime to commit." These kinds of criminals aren't capable of making those kinds of decisiosn. But the death penalty does feel like justice in some particularly heinous cases. Why should someone who tortured and murdered other human beings get three squares a day and see the sun rise, while their victims are gone?

Anyway, five innocent people please, I'd love to review them.

I think it's a little silly to blame the drugs companies for the revival of the electric chair. They have no real say in how the person is killed and if the people in charge choose the least human way possible then it's on them.

Just out of curiosity, has there ever been a proper long term indy study done on the effectiveness of capital punishment?

Personally I think it would solve logistical problems with many prison services but I would really only ever be in favour if it worked as a deterrent.

[Malphas]

I couldn't really care less about murderers, etc. being put to death, but my issue with the death penalty is it's inevitable that innocent people are going to be sentenced to it, and it offers no real benefit other than some sort of karmic gratification. Anyone committing a serious crime like a murder, is either of them mindset that they're going to get away with it, or has given no consideration to the consequences, so the severity of the punishment is going to have no bearing on it.

I also have very little faith in the US law enforcement and judicial system, and its still far from the worst in the world.

Life imprisonment without parole is a better alternative in my view, it's just as effective as removing that individual from society; and in the cases of wrongful conviction, allows the mistake to be rectified to an extent. It's also probably a crueler punishment, if you're into that aspect of the death penalty.

[Malphas]

Not to mention the fact that people even on death row have been exonerated by DNA testing, or recanted confessions by others.  Some percentage of people being put to death by the state have been innocent, yet we continue to do it.

Name five people who were innocent, that were put to death. Five, please. Try to keep them in the last century or so.

In my own view, capital punishment is not actually a deterrent, as the criminals usually put to death don't have the intellectual capacity to say, "Mmmm... I think this will earn me a death penalty. I'll find some other crime to commit." These kinds of criminals aren't capable of making those kinds of decisiosn. But the death penalty does feel like justice in some particularly heinous cases. Why should someone who tortured and murdered other human beings get three squares a day and see the sun rise, while their victims are gone?

Anyway, five innocent people please, I'd love to review them.

I'm not going to give you five because that's completely arbitrary. One is more than enough to make the death penalty unjustifiable.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0412090169dec09,0,1173806.story

Here is a guy that was sentenced to death for arson, after his three kids died in a house fire. Later review of the forensics evidence (forensics alone is pretty terrible evidence to convict someone on at the best of times anyway) by experts concluded that there was nothing to support the fact the fire was a deliberate act of arson, and to all intents and purposes just looked like any other house fire.

[hwood34]

Not to mention the fact that people even on death row have been exonerated by DNA testing, or recanted confessions by others.  Some percentage of people being put to death by the state have been innocent, yet we continue to do it.

Name five people who were innocent, that were put to death. Five, please. Try to keep them in the last century or so.

In my own view, capital punishment is not actually a deterrent, as the criminals usually put to death don't have the intellectual capacity to say, "Mmmm... I think this will earn me a death penalty. I'll find some other crime to commit." These kinds of criminals aren't capable of making those kinds of decisiosn. But the death penalty does feel like justice in some particularly heinous cases. Why should someone who tortured and murdered other human beings get three squares a day and see the sun rise, while their victims are gone?

Anyway, five innocent people please, I'd love to review them.

http://listverse.com/2010/01/12/10-convicts-presumed-innocent-after-execution/

[Findecanor]

Anyway, five innocent people please, I'd love to review them.

Seriously, you could have answered  your own question with a simple google search. Don't be a bigot.

Life imprisonment without parole is a better alternative in my view, it's just as effective as removing that individual from society; and in the cases of wrongful conviction, allows the mistake to be rectified to an extent. It's also probably a crueler punishment, if you're into that aspect of the death penalty.

Absolutely. Out in free society, people commit suicide to escape reality. In prison you can give them hell and keep tabs on them so that they don't escape by suicide.

At the other end of the spectrum, if an inmate is supposed to be released it is probably a good idea to prepare that person for a regular civilian life. Otherwise, the released will turn back into old habits.

[Malphas]

Yeah exactly; unfortunately with a privatised prison system the main objective is simply to contain convicts with the minimum of expense, which means understaffed prisons, poor staff morale, drug use, gambling, and only the bare minimum of rehabilitation required to meet government criteria.

[Hak Foo]

I wish they'd make the death penalty a real spectacle.  Bring back the guillotine.  Put it in a public place, maybe in front of the state capitol.  Put it on pay-per-view and turn it from a cost centre into a revenue centre.

[hwood34]

I wish they'd make the death penalty a real spectacle.  Bring back the guillotine.  Put it in a public place, maybe in front of the state capitol.  Put it on pay-per-view and turn it from a cost centre into a revenue centre.

I feel like at this point our best option as a country would be to implement Death Race

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

I wish they'd make the death penalty a real spectacle.  Bring back the guillotine.  Put it in a public place, maybe in front of the state capitol.  Put it on pay-per-view and turn it from a cost centre into a revenue centre.

I feel like at this point our best option as a country would be to implement Death Race

George Carlin's take on this is the best:

I advise watching the entire video.

Thermo-nuclear suppository, lol




Also relevant:

[Krogenar]

Anyway, five innocent people please, I'd love to review them.

Seriously, you could have answered  your own question with a simple google search. Don't be a bigot.

Ok, I'm reporting this post as breaking the TOS, for being called a bigot.

From the Terms of Service, this:

Personal Attacks - Personal attacks often lead to the trading of insults, and can throw the discussion of a legitimate topic off-track.  Personal attacks are defined as issuing a single or repeated personal attack or attacks aimed at another member, rather than at their opinions or ideas.  Criticizing a member's post is not considered a personal attack, but using terms that are derogatory, or designed to discredit a member is not permitted   Furthermore, comments of a racist or sexist nature, as well as derogatory comments about national origin or sexual orientation, will be dealt with harshly, up to and including a ban from the forums.

Calling someone a bigot breaks the TOS and I hope the moderating staff will do something. Openly insulting another forum member isn't right, and Findecanor should receive some sort of punishment from the mods.

[katushkin]

Maybe the death penalty?

[PointyFox]

There is no possible justification a human can come up with for killing another human.

"We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independant, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness".

Just because a larger number of people think something is right doesn't make it right.  Just look at religion. We're still ass-backwards as a species.

If a person wants to kill someone else, whether voting for a death penalty or not, that should make them fair game for the person being voted against to inflict their own death penalty.

A better method of punishing criminals would be to exile them and let them deal with each other, maybe on an island or something.

[katushkin]

A better method of punishing criminals would be to exile them and let them deal with each other, maybe on an island or something.

You mean like the British did in the Victorian times?

Because that's how you get Australians.

[hwood34]

Anyway, five innocent people please, I'd love to review them.

Seriously, you could have answered  your own question with a simple google search. Don't be a bigot.

Ok, I'm reporting this post as breaking the TOS, for being called a bigot.

From the Terms of Service, this:

Personal Attacks - Personal attacks often lead to the trading of insults, and can throw the discussion of a legitimate topic off-track.  Personal attacks are defined as issuing a single or repeated personal attack or attacks aimed at another member, rather than at their opinions or ideas.  Criticizing a member's post is not considered a personal attack, but using terms that are derogatory, or designed to discredit a member is not permitted   Furthermore, comments of a racist or sexist nature, as well as derogatory comments about national origin or sexual orientation, will be dealt with harshly, up to and including a ban from the forums.

Calling someone a bigot breaks the TOS and I hope the moderating staff will do something. Openly insulting another forum member isn't right, and Findecanor should receive some sort of punishment from the mods.

Something tells me mods may have more important things to deal with

[PointyFox]

A better method of punishing criminals would be to exile them and let them deal with each other, maybe on an island or something.

You mean like the British did in the Victorian times?

Because that's how you get Australians.

Yes, like that.  Though we would station some ships around it to blow up any escapees.

[PointyFox]

Discussion of reporting people is also against the ToS:

Trolling - Trolling can be defined as when a member posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the primary intent or consequence of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

[paicrai]

goddamn
i knew this thread was going to **** when people got a bit riled up at eachother but ****
should i have pulled the same thing i did in the mozilla firefox ceo thread?
if **** gets worse from here: STAHP. 

[domoaligato]

James Eagan Holmes - aurora shooting.
He should get the chair. Especially for wasting our time with this not guilty by reason of insanity/diminished capacity plea ****.

[paicrai]

i agree, in these cases, death penalty

[Malphas]

Anyway, five innocent people please, I'd love to review them.

Seriously, you could have answered  your own question with a simple google search. Don't be a bigot.

Ok, I'm reporting this post as breaking the TOS, for being called a bigot.

From the Terms of Service, this:

Personal Attacks - Personal attacks often lead to the trading of insults, and can throw the discussion of a legitimate topic off-track.  Personal attacks are defined as issuing a single or repeated personal attack or attacks aimed at another member, rather than at their opinions or ideas.  Criticizing a member's post is not considered a personal attack, but using terms that are derogatory, or designed to discredit a member is not permitted   Furthermore, comments of a racist or sexist nature, as well as derogatory comments about national origin or sexual orientation, will be dealt with harshly, up to and including a ban from the forums.

Calling someone a bigot breaks the TOS and I hope the moderating staff will do something. Openly insulting another forum member isn't right, and Findecanor should receive some sort of punishment from the mods.

He said "don't be a bigot". There's a difference. Besides, I think his very mild pseudo-insult is less of offense than your purposeful ****-stirring.

[Krogenar]

He said "don't be a bigot". There's a difference. Besides, I think his very mild pseudo-insult is less of offense than your purposeful ****-stirring.

Ok, so if someone were to say the following:

Don't be a ***got.
Don't be a racist.
Don't be an idiot.

- and so on, that would all be acceptable? I don't think so. Either the TOS mean something, or they don't.

[hwood34]

He said "don't be a bigot". There's a difference. Besides, I think his very mild pseudo-insult is less of offense than your purposeful ****-stirring.

Ok, so if someone were to say the following:

Don't be a ***got.
Don't be a racist.
Don't be an idiot.

- and so on, that would all be acceptable?

Yep. One, it's the internet, suck it up and deal with it. Two, he's not calling you a bigot, he's advising you against being one, they're different

[domoaligato]

Back on topic. I think mass murderers deserve the death penalty.

[Novus]

I think we should just do shoot people in a firing line.
It's cheaper.
I support the death penalty.

think about the families of the victims.
they deserve justice.
justice before equality.

[hwood34]

Why don't we just drop them into an abyss like in 300. Probably the fastest and most cost effective way