Help a n00b choose a new keyboard

[Special K]

Switches are subjective as well as the layout, so that argument's out (Hell, I don't use a Model M or my Northgate mainly because of the switches). The Northgate has the better the overall construction with a 100% steel case (minus keycaps and the plastic cowling over the steel case on the top) and an additional steel plate in the 'board itself. The Northgate has self-conatined switches, with easier to replace parts (should you need to for any reason), a longer cable, and programmability (the F certainly doesn't have that). Also, a weight of around 5-10 lbs. (depending on your model) with rubber feet that need a bulldozer to move, the Northgate line was built to kill.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot - Northgates have double-shot molded keycaps, too.
 
Now if I could only remember where I posted those pictures about a year ago...
 
Oh yeah: http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=63214&postcount=2 Kinda crappy, but hey, I'm no photographer.

Ugh, I hate those "ergonomic" layouts, although I am aware Northgate made keyboards with regular layouts as well.

[itlnstln]

Ugh, I hate those "ergonomic" layouts, although I am aware Northgate made keyboards with regular layouts as well.

Most of the other Northgates were pretty ugly (not like the Evolution was a work of art, either). You can still get Northgate keyboards. They are under the CVT label now and are still pretty expensive (and unattractive).  I don't know if the quality is still the same, though:
 
https://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/menu.htm

[Special K]

Most of the other Northgates were pretty ugly (not like the Evolution was a work of art, either). You can still get Northgate keyboards. They are under the CVT label now and are still pretty expensive (and unattractive).  I don't know if the quality is still the same, though:
 
https://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/menu.htm

Do they still use white alps?

[ch_123]

Which delicious flavour of Alps do Northgates have again?

Oh, and one more thing. I don't recall on the F, specifically, but Northgates don't have rivets that break when you look at them funny.

Take a look at my pics here. You may be a long time trying to find some rivets...

[itlnstln]

Do they still use white alps?

CVT used Alps for a long time, but I don't know if their current stock still has Alps or another Alps-compatible switch.
 
Either way, they are of the white variety.

[ch_123]

How are the springyness of those White Alps? The Black ones were pretty wimpy on the bounceback.

[Special K]

How are the springyness of those White Alps? The Black ones were pretty wimpy on the bounceback.

Maybe that's why I felt I couldn't type as fast on my AT101W as my brown and blue cherry boards.  I knew there was something about the keys that made them feel "slower", I just couldn't quite determine what it was.

[ch_123]

Maybe that's why I felt I couldn't type as fast on my AT101W as my brown and blue cherry boards.  I knew there was something about the keys that made them feel "slower", I just couldn't quite determine what it was.

Yeah, I only realized it when someone else described the problem. It wouldnt be so bad if they didn't have such a high initial activation force. Typing on them is like falling through a roof, a sudden thump then down you go.

[Special K]

Yeah, I only realized it when someone else described the problem. It wouldnt be so bad if they didn't have such a high initial activation force. Typing on them is like falling through a roof, a sudden thump then down you go.

Another thing someone pointed out to me about the black alps is that they really don't have much of a distinct tactile bump - just a range motion that has high friction.

It's too bad I'm not a huge fan of the black alps switches, because the AT101Ws are very solidly built and I really like the "clack" the keys make when they hit the metal backplate.

[itlnstln]

Wow, CVT still makes em?? The website says 4 lbs 6 oz so I doubt those are all metal ones though.

The later ones didn't use as much metal, but almost 4.5 lbs. is still pretty heavy.  A full-size Filco is only 2 lbs. for comparison.  I don't remember how much the M weighs, though, for comparison purposes.

[alpslover]

How are the springyness of those White Alps?

it depends, because not all white alps switches are created equal.  for example, the white alps in my chicony 5161 are only about as 'springy' as the black alps found in dell at101's, whereas the (genuine) white alps in my focus 2001's are noticeably 'springyer'.  as a result, i type substantially faster on the 2001's.

in the past i've cautioned against categorizing alps switches based on their stem colors, because it's not necessarily a guarantee that the internals are the same, unlike, for example, cherry switches.  i have an alps glidepoint keyboard with white alps switches, but rather than being click tactiles like every other white alps switch i've seen, they are rubber damped soft tactiles.  basically the same switches found in those silicon graphics keyboards, but with white stems instead of cream or beige.

The Black ones were pretty wimpy on the bounceback.

agreed, and it's one of the reasons why i'm not a fan of dell at101's.

[Special K]

I'm not liking this M10 for gaming, but it has nothing to do with the blue cherry switches.  I'm pretty sure it's because of the lower than usual left CTRL key.  I use it for crouching in CSS, and it's more difficult to hit because it's lower than all of the other keys, and repeatedly reaching for it and holding it down makes my fingers sore.