Help a n00b choose a new keyboard

[Special K]

Yes, that or the Tenkeyless.

I definitely need the numpad, so I will avoid the tenkeyless model.

[Special K]

Regarding my comment about the clackey Dell keyboard I used once:

I did some searching on Google and came across this pic of an AT101W:

http://www.clickykeyboard.com/2007/feb21/001.JPG

This is definitely the clicky keyboard I used at work once.  I really liked the tactile feedback of the switches, but they just seemed awful loud to me.

Out of curiosity, why did Dell and IBM quit making their clicky keyboards?

[itlnstln]

Out of curiosity, why did Dell and IBM quit making their clicky keyboards?

Cost and noise.  Over time, keyboards were an easy place to reduce cost.  The IBM Model M retailed for something like $100 (inflation adjusted).  Why include a $100 keyboard when you can include a $10 keyboard and charge the same price?  Also, as rubber dome keyboards became more prevalent (as well as cubicles), the quieter sound became much prefered.  Today, most people are just plain ignorant to the quality keyboards that are available.

[IBI]

F keys are placed intuitively. Simply two rows instead of 1. Besides, who really uses the F keys? I use F5 for refreshing and that's placed at the conventional spot.

F5 and F9 are probably two of the most used keys on the keyboard for gaming since that's what quicksave and quickload are often set to. The compaq does seem to have those two rather close together.

I'm not sure if this would change anyone's responses any, but I re-read my OP and realized I had left out one thing - I would like something with some tactile feedback, just without as loud of clacking as the Dell AT101W.  Some noise is OK, and might even be good.  The keys on the generic Dell keyboard I am using now just kind of mush down (when they don't get stuck that is).

Well, poor rubber domes can be mushy. That's just the sign of a poor keyboard like the off-center resistance.

'tactile' just means feeling, so asking for a keyboard that has keys with some sort of feeling isn't that helpful in narrowing down your choices, without knowing what sort of tactility you like nothing can be recommended, and at the moment you don't know what.

Basically feeling ranges from the more gentle tactility of the rubber domes and MX linear keyswitches where the change in feel is over a larger distance to the clicky switches that give a snap at one point.

SpecialK, this is a good video to give you an idea of the sound (and look) of some of the keyboards mentioned.  What I like is he miked at the same level so it's as close to real life as I've seen.

http://www.viddler.com/explore/HotHardware/videos/69/

- Ripster

Yes, they do seem to have similar volumes. It's a shame the reviewer didn't include a quieter keyboard in the video so the absolute volume would be more obvious.

[MANISH7]

F5 and F9 are probably two of the most used keys on the keyboard for gaming since that's what quicksave and quickload and set to. The compaq does seem to have those two rather close together.

i didn't know that but then again the only game i play is cod4 multiplayer.

[Eclairz]

I stripped my compaq of its browns and swapped them into my cherry g80-3000, I am however planning to acquire another g80-1800 keyboard as i prefer a shorter keyboard. I already have a g80-1800 with blue cherries (which are preferrable but are too noisy for a work environment).

I use all f-keys but then i am a programmer and we use lots of key combinations depending ide. F-key placement is therefore essential to me, and I don't plan to get used to the way compaq place them, else I will have to stock pile them up. The G80-1800 series is basically a compaq with a more standard layout and no trackball (i just wish they made the numpad fully standard as the plus is shrunken to a single key, can't have everything though).

[Special K]

SpecialK, this is a good video to give you an idea of the sound (and look) of some of the keyboards mentioned.  What I like is he miked at the same level so it's as close to real life as I've seen.

http://www.viddler.com/explore/HotHardware/videos/69/

- Ripster

Wow, that was pretty neat - thanks for posting that.  Honestly though, I didn't notice a huge difference in volume between the different keyboards he tested.

[itlnstln]

Wow, that was pretty neat - thanks for posting that. Honestly though, I didn't notice a huge difference in volume between the different keyboards he tested.

I have found that many of my keyboards don't really vary much in absolute loudness.  It's the pitch of the sound that makes one more distracting/annoying than the other.  My Northgate, though, takes the cake.  People think there is a drive-by shooting taking place every time I use it.

[Special K]

I have found that many of my keyboards don't really vary much in absolute loudness.  It's the pitch of the sound that makes one more distracting/annoying than the other.  My Northgate, though, takes the cake.  People think there is a drive-by shooting taking place every time I use it.

I think at this point the best thing for me to do is just try some of these suggested keyboards out and see what I think.  In the case of the Filco brown cherrys, I think I will have to go with the Compaq MX-11800 first, as it seems elitekeyboards doesn't allow returns:

http://elitekeyboards.com/support.php?lang=en

They seem to be the only US-based carrier of Filcos, which are the primary brand of brown cherry keyboards.  If I decide to go with something other than the brown cherry, then I have more options.

All of the other keyboards are available from retailers that do accept returns (Amazon, Newegg, etc.).  Even Das Keyboard has a no questions asked 30 day return policy.

One thing that bothers me about these keyboards is that they only seem to be warrantied for 1 year.  You would think a product advertised as being good for millions of keystrokes would have a warranty greater than 1 year.

[IBI]

All of the other keyboards are available from retailers that do accept returns (Amazon, Newegg, etc.).  Even Das Keyboard has a no questions asked 30 day return policy.

Does the US not have a general return policy for distance selling? Here in the UK you can legally return any new product, that you've bought without an opportunity to see it, within 7 days.

[ozar]

And don't get me started on electronic retailers like Best Buy (restocking fees....)

I used to like going into the older version of Best Buy, but since they've tried to modernize their stores, I don't even go in them anymore.  It's hard to find anything and their selection feels like it has been lessened.  All the mail-in rebates they used to offer drove me away, too.  I've heard that they stopped all but instant rebates there, which if true is a big plus.

[o2dazone]

Which is why companies like Newegg and Zappos are amazing models to emulate. I wish more did the same...but thats ok, I like Newegg, no need for an alternative there

[ozar]

Yes, online ordering works great as long as there are no problems and you like what you ordered when it arrives.  Otherwise, it can quickly become a pain in the rectal cavity.

[ozar]

2nd dat!  I've even had problems with Amazon returning stuff.  And all these secondary vendors on their site is making it hard to just click and buy something.

- Ripster

I had a problem with Amazon a couple of years ago and promised myself that was the last order from them, and I've kept that promise.

Three different times in a row, I ordered from them, took advantage of their free shipping offer on items "in stock" according to their website.  After about a week, I get an email from them saying they don't have it in stock, do I want to continue with the order?  I respond saying yes, and a week or two later get another email saying still not in stock, do I want to continue?  During each of these incidents, I checked the item on their website and it still shows to be "in stock", although the emails say it is not.

I'm done with Amazon, forever!  :rant:

[Special K]

Alright, I've made this table to try and summarize the important features of the keyboards I'm considering:

Code: [Select]


KB Brand KB Model  switch type         price store        rollover

ABS M1  black alps      $59.99 Newegg        6-key
Deck Legend Ice  cherry black      $159.00 Deck Keyboards        full (PS/2)  10-key (6-key + modifiers (ALT, CRTL, etc) (USB)
SteelSeries 7G  cherry black      $131.99 Newegg                full (PS/2 vs USB not specified)
Filco FKBN104M/EB  cherry brown      $129.00 Elite Keybords        full (PS/2) 8-key (USB)
Das Keyboard Professional  cherry blue      $129.00 Das Keyboard           12-key (USB)
Compaq MX 11800  cherry brown       ~$15.00 ebay/geekhack        ???
Scorpius M10  cherry blue      $49.99     Amazon        6-key (USB)
Dell            AT101W            black alps          $12.00     etiexpress             ???
Solidtek        ASK-6600U         white alps          $43.99     thenerds.net/amazon    ???
Unicomp         Customizer 104    buckling spring     $69.00     pckeyboards.com        ???
IBM             Model M 1391401   buckling spring    ~$40.00     ebay/geekhack          ???


The prices listed above don't include shipping.

There is also the Cherry G80-3000LSCRC-2 for cherry blue switches, but it comes in a non-standard layout.  I found it available from the following sellers:

http://www.totalbarcode.com/product/Cherry_G80-3000_Standard_PC_Keyboard.html
http://www.geminicomputersinc.com/g80-3000lscrc-2.html
http://www.poshouse.com/item.asp?PID=3737&CID=61

Blue MX = "clicky" and tactile (clicky as in audible clicks, tactile as in feel of the click)
Brown MX = "soft-tactile" - lightly tactile without the audible clicks
Black MX = linear switches, no tactile bump and the switches make no sound. Heavy springs (unlike the blues and browns which are rather light)

Topre (capacitive) switches = These switches are difficult to describe, so I'll just say that they are very smooth, have a nice feel, and the switches themselves are quiet. These are my favorite switches

black alps: medium resistance, no audible click except bottoming out, medium tactile bump.
white alps: light resistance, pretty loud audible click plus bottoming out, light tactile bump.

EDIT: Here is a blog post I found that gives a very good description of the various key types:

http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx

After reading that article, the alps switches also might be something I would consider.  The black alps seem more in line with my initial set of requirements, and also seem similar in description to the cherry browns.  The while alps seems similar to the cherry blues.

If any of that information is incorrect, please let me know.  I'm thinking of starting with the brown cherry MX 11800, and if that doesn't work, maybe trying a blue cherry model?

[ozar]

Wow, Special K... you've put a lot of thought into this.  Keep in mind that if you are anything like the rest of us, you'll probably wind up buying all those boards eventually.  :lol:

[Rajagra]

I think you guys in the U.S. have a very different attitude to returns than Europeans. Sure, we now have laws about being able to return mail order items, but that is a VERY new thing. But you Americans have been, shall we say, demanding consumers basically forever. Contrary to being treated like dirt, you've had your vendors over a barrel and got great service as a result. You see it as a right to buy things, try them out, then send them back on a whim. Doesn't the fact that you are able to view things that way speak volumes?

Europeans on the whole just don't do that. Frankly I'm shocked at some of the tales I've heard from Americans of how they've abused return policies.

I have to assure you that you get better customer service than we do - as well as lower prices. If U.S. sellers are now tightening up on return policies it's because of the abuses I mentioned above.

I'm not trying to be critical, just trying to help you see that the grass isn't greener over this side. :tape2:

It remains to be seen how businesses will be affected by our new long-distance selling regulations. I think they will put a lot of companies out of business. It will be hard to tell though, since so many are going bust already.

[wellington1869]

Frankly I'm shocked at some of the tales I've heard from Americans of how they've abused return policies.

lol, i think each of us would have a story that would shock you.

I guess you're located in europe?

[Viett]

You can't go wrong going with a starter board. I don't think the Black Cherry boards are tactile at all, though. I have tried a Deck and I don't recall it being tactile. If you like the Compaq, you'd probably be very satisfied with a FKBN104M/EB.

[Special K]

You're back!  I could tell that coming from Anandtech you weren't really a n00b.  We tend to scare off all the real n00bs with a flurry of posts.

Yeah, that table looks right.  And don't buy the LED Deck puleeez...

If you do they have a policeman model that is will give you some street cred (click for link):

Show Image

I imagine cops drawing their weapons, blood spattering, Pulp Fiction brain messes.  And the keyboard still works!

I think your plan of  starting with a lower cost Ebay model is a smart way to go IF the shipping is OK, otherwise you're there the Scorpius M10 territory and might want to take a chance you'll get a good one.  See this first:

http://www.amazon.com/Ione-Scorpius-Mechanical-Keyswitch-Keyboard/product-reviews/B000UC1W3C/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1


- Ripster

My first choice would be the Compaq MX-11800, which I can apparently buy quite cheaply off of here or ebay.  A blue cherry sounds like it would be my second choice, although there isn't really a cheap option there.  I would probably just get the Das Keyboard 3 Pro - they have a good return policy, and that is my favorite blue cherry keyboard based on what I have read.

I don't think I would like the cherry blacks as much, although oddly both of the keyboards I listed that are advertised as gaming keyboards (7G and Legend) both use the cherry black switches.

[Rajagra]

lol, i think each of us would have a story that would shock you.

I guess you're located in europe?

Yes, in the UK. I've just checked and our long distance selling regulations have been around since 2000! Suppliers have been pretty quiet about it and I can see why, it's strongly loaded in favour of the buyer. I think our attitude to shopping has yet to catch up with this law.

[Special K]

It's your budget but I wouldn't forget GeekGirl.

What exactly does this mean?

[IBI]

black alps: medium resistance, no audible click except bottoming out, medium tactile bump.
white alps: light resistance, pretty loud audible click plus bottoming out, light tactile bump.

If you're going to try a mechanical keyboard then It might help if you maintain a list of the one's you've rejected as well so we can suggest ones you haven't looked at.

The black real alps (the ones the dell AT101 has) have very little bump in the travel, I don't know if the fake alps are stronger or whether that information is wrong.

Also, you should easily be able to find second hand keyboards using black and blue cherry switches fairly cheaply, the trick is going to be identifying them

I think you guys in the U.S. have a very different attitude to returns than Europeans. Sure, we now have laws about being able to return mail order items, but that is a VERY new thing. But you Americans have been, shall we say, demanding consumers basically forever. Contrary to being treated like dirt, you've had your vendors over a barrel and got great service as a result. You see it as a right to buy things, try them out, then send them back on a whim. Doesn't the fact that you are able to view things that way speak volumes?

Yes, you may not have an enforced legal right for it but your online retailers are generally very generous with their return policies. Most here just have no policy and only accept the default 7 days and you occasionally find one offering 14 days.

Yes, in the UK. I've just checked and our long distance selling regulations have been around since 2000! Suppliers have been pretty quiet about it and I can see why, it's strongly loaded in favour of the buyer. I think our attitude to shopping has yet to catch up with this law.

Actually I'm surprised we've only had them since 2000, mail order shopping has been going on for decades.

[Special K]

If you're going to try a mechanical keyboard then It might help if you maintain a list of the one's you've rejected as well so we can suggest ones you haven't looked at.

The black real alps (the ones the dell AT101 has) have very little bump in the travel, I don't know if the fake alps are stronger or whether that information is wrong.

Does the AT101W use black or white alps switches?  Were some made with black alps, and some with white alps?  I did a google search and some say the AT101W uses black alps, but others say it uses white alps.

Is the AT101 just shorthand for AT101W, or are they two totally separate keyboards?

[MANISH7]

Does the AT101W use black

Yes, black alps only.

Is the AT101 just shorthand for AT101W, or are they two totally separate keyboards?

Two separate. AT101 is rubber dome whereas AT101W is black alps mechanical. I found a AT101 in my basement, got excited, only to find it was rubber dome.

I want to try out white alps myself but I hear that they are much more distracting than even BS. Not suitable for someone who doesn't like noisy keyboards.

[Special K]

I found a very good blog posting here that outlines all the different key types:

http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx

It says:

ALPS type switches are also available in different configurations. White ALPS type switches, like the Cherry MX Blues, are both tactile and clicky, whereas the Black type are not. Black ALPS copies are tactile, but non-clicky.

Then you said about the AT101W:

Yes, black alps only.

From what I remember of the AT101W I used, it made fairly loud clicky noises.  Perhaps I don't understand the distinction between tactile and clicky?

Tactile means you feel a distinct "bump" as the key is pressed down, but before it bottoms out, correct?  Doesn't this action produce a click?  Isn't a click also produced when a key on any keyboard bottoms out?  It seems any keyboard could be described as "clicky".

[cchan]

The AT101W has its switches mounted to a metal plate which amplifies the clacking sound made when pressing a key to the bottom of its travel. Perhaps you interpreted that as a click.

[Viett]

Several times I've seen something along the lines of "Dell AT101W ALPS (White)". They mean the keyboard itself is white, not the ALPS.

[IBI]

Two separate. AT101 is rubber dome whereas AT101W is black alps mechanical. I found a AT101 in my basement, got excited, only to find it was rubber dome.

No, the difference is that the W models have windows keys while the non-W models don't. It's possible they made ones with rubber domes as well as mechanical switches under the same model number, but there are definitely mechanical AT101s.

All/Most of the Dell AT101(W)s had black alps, but there was also a silicon graphics (SGI) branded version of the same keyboard, also called the AT101, which used white alps. (although there was no AT101W version for them as they weren't selling windows machines).

From what I remember of the AT101W I used, it made fairly loud clicky noises.  Perhaps I don't understand the distinction between tactile and clicky?

Tactile means you feel a distinct "bump" as the key is pressed down, but before it bottoms out, correct?  Doesn't this action produce a click?  Isn't a click also produced when a key on any keyboard bottoms out?  It seems any keyboard could be described as "clicky".

You've got the definitions for clicky and the behavior commonly called tactile correct, but you have to remember that this is is only what's happening when the key it on it's way down.

You've got the additional potential noise of the key mechanism and keycap hitting the bottom stoppers, as well as the noise when the keycap accelerates back up and slams back into it's top stoppers. The first one can somewhat be avoided if you lift you fingers off between the key registering and it bottoming out but the second cannot and that causes a lot of the noise on mechanical keyboards (metal springs are more springy than rubber).

[MANISH7]

Thanks for the correction IBI. Looks like I got unlucky finding a rubber dome AT101.

[IBI]

Thanks for the correction IBI. Looks like I got unlucky finding a rubber dome AT101.

Oh, I don't know anything about the commonness of the rubber dome ones. I meant the majority of mechanical ones were black alps, the early ones apparently had pink alps.

[skriefal]

I suggest Cherry Brown switches. Light so it's not tiring when you're mashing keys, not too noisy as you wanted, and you can acquire it for relatively cheap price.

Buy the Compaq MX-11800 in the forum marketplace for $15+shipping (I'm not seller btw).

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm the seller, btw. :smile:  I've attached a photo of the MX11800.  It's a nice keyboard, but the layout -- function keys, primarily -- isn't quite to my taste.

[Special K]

Argh, I just found this thread while searching for das keyboard information on geekhack:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=5411&highlight=das+keyboard+rollover

It mentions issues with the build quality and even the logic of the Das Keyboard 3 Pros.

Of course, if you read the newegg reviews for the keyboards they are selling, you might think they all have problems (ABS M1, for example).

EDIT: It also seems the ABS M1 doesn't quite live up to its 6-key rollover claim:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?t=5185&do=comments&page=2

BTW, why can't I access any of the threads on this forum from google or external links?  When I click on the links, it just says:

Invalid Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

[Hak Foo]

What annoys me about mail order is usually two-fold:

1)  Annoying return policies.  I dealt with a shop which insisted "7 days to return the product if defective."  The product started acting up after two days, but I figured "let's try to get the manufacturer to resolve the problem".  I spent like 15 days trying to get help from them (who apparently had one guy who spoke English, who was on holiday for most of that time).  They eventually relented and gave me my money back, but why not just have a policy which is less about fixed dates and more about "do you have a legitimate excuse, or are you just wishing you had your $80 back."

2)  Shipping games.  I basically swore I'd never buy another delivered item from Amazon after ordering four volumes of manhwa from them.  I ordered four because that was the point at which free shipping kicked in, making it worthwhile over buying them locally.  They said "in stock" for all of them.  Then they quoted that it would be a week to ship them.  Really? Their massive stocking and distribution infrastructure cannot find four in-stock items and throw them into a box in less than seven days?  I get the impression the free shipping is basically a come-on in hopes you'll pay for the upgrade.  (OTOH, I will deal with their MP3 shop, as it's best-of-breed, and there's no shipping issues)

Newegg-- when they say "free shipping", it takes the same length of time as when you pay for it.  That's what I like.


I'd sort of like to try a Cherry Blue board myself, but I can't bring myself to spend $50 on a Scorpius M10, or $80 on a G80-3000, right now.

[Special K]

Cost and noise.  Over time, keyboards were an easy place to reduce cost.  The IBM Model M retailed for something like $100 (inflation adjusted).  Why include a $100 keyboard when you can include a $10 keyboard and charge the same price?  Also, as rubber dome keyboards became more prevalent (as well as cubicles), the quieter sound became much prefered.  Today, most people are just plain ignorant to the quality keyboards that are available.

When did Dell officially quit making the AT101W?

[ozar]

When did Dell officially quit making the AT101W?

I'm not certain but I think it was around 1999/2000.  Maybe someone will correct if that is wrong.

[Special K]

Alright, I received my MX-11800 and an AT101W yesterday and have had some time to do some basic typing on them.  Here are my first impressions:

1. Both of these keyboards are infinitely better than the cheap Dell rubber membrane keyboard I was using before.  The keypresses actually feel solid, like I am pressing a switch, as opposed to the Dell rubber membrane, which felt like I was pressing a key into the mud.

2. Both of these keyboards are supposed to have tactile switches.  The MX 11800 uses cherry browns, and the AT101W uses black alps.  Honestly I am having difficulty detecting the tatillity.  I have to move the key very slowly to feel the tactile bump.  As a result, I'm bottoming out on every keystroke because the tactile bump is not prominent enough to be felt by my fingers when I am typing at full speed.

3. The key repeat rate on these two particular boards seems extremely slow compared to what I was used to.  If I hold down the backspace key, it takes quite awhile for a line of text to be deleted.

4. Originally I said I didn't want a board with click/clack noises, but the clack of the keys (clack meaning when the keys bottom out - the switches themselves are silent) on these two boards is starting to grow on me.  The AT101W's clack is slightly louder than the MX11800's.  Maybe a BS keyboard wouldn't be so bad after all.

5. I don't have a strong preference between the AT101W and the MX11800.  I've already switched between the two 3 times since trying them out last night.  I suspect I'll just end up using both of them.

6. I haven't had any issues with off-center keypresses yet, which is good.  The keys respond uniformly every time I hit them, whereas I could definitely tell when I hit a key off center with my old Dell rubber membrane board because the key would stick.

[keyb_gr]

2. Both of these keyboards are supposed to have tactile switches.  The MX 11800 uses cherry browns, and the AT101W uses black alps.  Honestly I am having difficulty detecting the tatillity.  I have to move the key very slowly to feel the tactile bump.  As a result, I'm bottoming out on every keystroke because the tactile bump is not prominent enough to be felt by my fingers when I am typing at full speed.

That may become better if you get used to it... or it might not. Depends on your typing technique I guess, touch typists tend not to hit the keys quite as much.
I even manage to bottom out Cherry G81s at full speed, and bottom out harder than I like on blues.

3. The key repeat rate on these two particular boards seems extremely slow compared to what I was used to.  If I hold down the backspace key, it takes quite awhile for a line of text to be deleted.

Are you using a USB adapter by any chance? Some have been reported not be passing on user-defined delay and repeat values.

Maybe a BS keyboard wouldn't be so bad after all.

If you're a bit of a "heavy hitter", you could do worse than giving one a try. They are pretty noisy though, so for surfing and such it's not quite ideal. In return, typing precision is among the very best.

6. I haven't had any issues with off-center keypresses yet, which is good.  The keys respond uniformly every time I hit them, whereas I could definitely tell when I hit a key off center with my old Dell rubber membrane board because the key would stick.

Simple rubber dome 'boards can be pretty nasty in terms of mechanics.

Sounds though that you are a fully indoctrinated Geekhacker now and are on your way to a bit of a keyboard hunt.

As they'd say elsewhere, welcome to Geekhack, and sorry about your wallet...

[skriefal]

2. Both of these keyboards are supposed to have tactile switches.  The MX 11800 uses cherry browns, and the AT101W uses black alps.  Honestly I am having difficulty detecting the tatillity.  I have to move the key very slowly to feel the tactile bump.  As a result, I'm bottoming out on every keystroke because the tactile bump is not prominent enough to be felt by my fingers when I am typing at full speed.

The brown Cherry and black Alps switches are what I'd consider to be "light" tactile.  I type between 50 and 110 wpm depending upon the content and its length, and usually do not notice the tactlie bump.

4. Originally I said I didn't want a board with click/clack noises, but the clack of the keys (clack meaning when the keys bottom out - the switches themselves are silent) on these two boards is starting to grow on me.  The AT101W's clack is slightly louder than the MX11800's.  Maybe a BS keyboard wouldn't be so bad after all.

Both of these keyboards are more sturdily built than common, cheap rubber dome models.  So there will be a bit of additional noise when the plastic keycaps impact the backing plate or PCB if you bottom out.

If you don't mind the noise and you find that you prefer a heavier touch, then a Model M may indeed be a good choice.  A white Alps board would be another option.  Both of those have significantly more noise and a much heavier feel than the AT101W or MX-11800.

[Special K]

That may become better if you get used to it... or it might not. Depends on your typing technique I guess, touch typists tend not to hit the keys quite as much.
I even manage to bottom out Cherry G81s at full speed, and bottom out harder than I like on blues.

I am a touch typist.  I guess I just have a fairly aggressive keypress.

Are you using a USB adapter by any chance? Some have been reported not be passing on user-defined delay and repeat values.

No, I'm just using the regular PS/2 port.

[keyb_gr]

I am a touch typist.  I guess I just have a fairly aggressive keypress.

Generally not surprising if you're used to rubber domes, which need to be bottomed out.

No, I'm just using the regular PS/2 port.

Strange, they should take the typematic settings just fine then. Was your old board connected like this as well?

Whoops, I'm producing some strange typos right now, seems like sore throat is joined by headache now.

[Special K]

Strange, they should take the typematic settings just fine then. Was your old board connected like this as well?

Yes, they were both connected through the same PS/2 port.

[keyb_gr]

Yes, they were both connected through the same PS/2 port.

Then that's strange. Have you tried timing things with a stopwatch? The fastest repeat setting should be like 30 characters per second.

[wbopal7]

I had this problem the first time I plugged in the mx11800 too. I did a reboot and then it worked fine.

[Special K]

I had this problem the first time I plugged in the mx11800 too. I did a reboot and then it worked fine.

That's an interesting observation.  I always assumed PS/2 was hot-swappable like USB, since that's always the way it seemed to behave for me.

[Rajagra]

That's an interesting observation.  I always assumed PS/2 was hot-swappable like USB, since that's always the way it seemed to behave for me.

PS/2 is NOT hot-swappable. It is not hot-pluggable. I have seen many PS/2 ports blown where people have assumed it was safe to plug in a keyboard. Most of those were very expensive servers. I don't think mice caused as many problems, probably they draw less current.

[Special K]

PS/2 is NOT hot-swappable. It is not hot-pluggable. I have seen many PS/2 ports blown where people have assumed it was safe to plug in a keyboard. Most of those were very expensive servers. I don't think mice caused as many problems, probably they draw less current.

What is it about a USB port that allows you to hot-swap mice and keyboards?  How does it differ from PS/2 in that respect?

[Zathras]

This is a great thread for the inexperienced keyboard user (like myself) and I'd like to thank everyone contributing with extremely useful answers and links. As soon as I figure out the international shipping costs from elite-keyboards I'll be ordering a FKB104M/EB for sure!

Edit: now onto finding a nice mac-command key cap to replace that ugly windows key!

[keyb_gr]

What is it about a USB port that allows you to hot-swap mice and keyboards?  How does it differ from PS/2 in that respect?

In case of hot-pluggable connectors, the connections must be established in a defined manner. For USB plugs this means that ground and power contacts are longer, thus being connected first and disconnected last. The shield makes contact even earlier. Look at a SATA power connector, and you'll find the same.

In case of the PS/2 mini-DIN connector, both the power and data pins are equally long, so the order of connection is undefined.

A good example of something definitely not hot-pluggable are RCA phono connectors - signal connects first, then ground.

[Special K]

I had this problem the first time I plugged in the mx11800 too. I did a reboot and then it worked fine.

This ended up solving the problem.