Just got a call from Unicomp, Tenkeyless coming soon!

[Xuan]

Nevertheless, most manufacturers do, it cannot be that hard. It would be a simple and great thing to inverst into, the same goes for the logo.

[wellington1869]

Gee, now we have TWO simultaneous Unicomp bashing threads.  

lol, here's a third one. An oldy but a goody:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6175

They really are a small company.  I see a dozen cars in their parking lot (BBQ night).

thats what happens when you have no ambition and are just looking to retire to your villa in italy in a few years ;-P

yup, bs production is set to vanish folks. :-(  Unicomp makes baby jesus cry.

[huha]

I don't really get why you're bashing Unicomp. They're building fairly high-quality, solid products with great feel. What more could you want? I do get the Metadot bashing, but the bad controller is their fault (probably). I don't get the whole Filco hysteria, though; they sure are nice boards, but they're produced by Costar; as soon as anyone else asks Costar to make some, they will.

I'd like to see a Unicomp tenkeyless and/or number pad. Making new products takes lots of money, which I don't think is available during a crisis. I don't see the sense in a wireless BS board; they're way too heavy to take around with you, so what's the point?

-huha

[microsoft windows]

You can always saw off the number pad and place the controller in another location.

Not the best way to customize your Customizer though...

[itlnstln]

I don't really get why you're bashing Unicomp. They're building fairly high-quality, solid products with great feel. What more could you want? I do get the Metadot bashing, but the bad controller is their fault (probably). I don't get the whole Filco hysteria, though; they sure are nice boards, but they're produced by Costar; as soon as anyone else asks Costar to make some, they will.
 
I'd like to see a Unicomp tenkeyless and/or number pad. Making new products takes lots of money, which I don't think is available during a crisis. I don't see the sense in a wireless BS board; they're way too heavy to take around with you, so what's the point?
 
-huha

Again, though, if you don't offer anything new, than you don't give anybody any reason to "re-buy" you products. Once you have a Model M, you will, more than likely, never need another. Unicomp said this was their main hurdle in the NPR piece. Once someone buys a 'board from them, it lasts forever, and there is no repeat business. The reason why there is "hysteria" over Filcos is that Diatec gives you choice. If I want a brown-Cherry keyboard, I can buy a regular one, an NKRO version, a Tenkyless, a wireless, a red version, or a Tenkeyless "Otaku." Hell, I could even collect them all. On top of that, they even offer some of those items in other switches, giving me even more choice. If I want a Unicomp, the best I could do is the Customizer or Space Saver in white or black.  Most of the other items are just the Cutomizer with a trackball or trackpoint attached.

[huha]

Again, though, if you don't offer anything new, than you don't give anybody any reason to "re-buy" you products. Once you have a Model M, you will, more than likely, never need another. Unicomp said this was their main hurdle in the NPR piece. Once someone buys a 'board from them, it lasts forever, and there is no repeat business. The reason why there is "hysteria" over Filcos is that Diatec gives you choice. If I want a brown-Cherry keyboard, I can buy a regular one, an NKRO version, a Tenkyless, a wireless, a red version, or a Tenkeyless "Otaku." Hell, I could even collect them all. On top of that, they even offer some of those items in other switches, giving me even more choice. If I want a Unicomp, the best I could do is the Customizer or Space Saver in white or black.  Most of the other items are just the Cutomizer with a trackball or trackpoint attached.

Granted, Filco do better marketing. NKRO is not possible with Unicomp boards, and no sane person would ever buy the same board with and with NKRO  just for collecting, so that's no point. Filco sell boards with three Cherry switches. Unicomp has just one BS type, but they do offer several colours (three of them, two printed or unprinted, one unprinted only) and a choice of input devices (trackball/trackpoint).
Yes, I'd also like to see a Mini, ideally even with a trackpoint. But it's not like Unicomp's product palette is terribly limited--you do have plenty of options to choose from and the boards are normally-priced for mechanical boards, whereas the Filcos are a bit expensive. The Filcos aren't bad, they're wonderful keyboards, but I don't quite understand why there's so much trash-talk about Unicomp. The whole scale of operations is largely different between Filco and Unicomp. Unicomp has their single, small factory in the US where every keyboard is assembled just when it's ordered, whereas Filco orders loads of keyboards in bulk from Costar, who produce them in Taiwan. Unicomp has practically no retail channels, wheras Filcos are sold on amazon japan and other online retailers.

-huha

[itlnstln]

I don't really get why you're bashing Unicomp.

Other than Welly, I don't think anyone is bashing Unicomp per se, and I apologize if that's how I sound.  I just think that there's a certain frustration level amongst some geeks here (and probably other places) where they would like to have a compelling reason to continue giving Unicomp their business but currently don't.  People keep buying Topres and Filcos because they offer new products periodically.  Whether it's a new color, form-factor, etc. doesn't really matter, but it's another product for geeks to buy.  Unicomp doesn't really offer anything that hasn't already been around for about 15-25 years, or so, depending on the model.
 
I think geeks are looking for something new and fresh from Unicomp instead of the same old stuff we have been looking at for the last 25 years.  Seriously, would you want to buy from Chevrolet (or any car company) if, in 2009, they are still only selling the same Celebrity and Chevette they were selling back in 1984?  Probably not, even if they were going to last you for the rest of your life.

[Hak Foo]

Frankly, though, if you want a no-hassle good keyboard, it's beneficial to have options.  Making a soldered tenkeyless job is not something you can tell your friends about.

[itlnstln]

Frankly, though, if you want a no-hassle good keyboard, it's beneficial to have options. Making a soldered tenkeyless job is not something you can tell your friends about.

We're not your friends?

[itlnstln]

Depends on your friends.

Depends on the hardware.

[wellington1869]

lol, I am loving the embedded video feature


hey i'm not 'bashing' unicomp. I'm criticizing them.  I'd like to see them survive as a company, because I like them a lot. But everything I see and hear about them tells me that they likely wont even survive the next 10 years. I'd like to see them put the bs switch into different types of keyboards, because its a great switch. I'm not seeing them do that, either.
Hence the criticism. They refuse to survive, and they refuse to thrive.  This, you see, makes baby jesus cry. Because he loves them and they're so self destructive.

You see? Its not bashing. Its criticism.

[wellington1869]

omg that hamster is hilarious.  I'd play with that app for hours.

[wellington1869]

lol! customer service this is kelly...

ripster i knew you would make great use of this feature

[rdjack21]

You knew he would. He just loves pictures and now we get to put up with videos as well.

But back on the subject of bashing unicomp. They should do something like Topre does and release a limited keyboard every so often and charge an arm and a leg for it to offset the development cost. I think their biggest problem is that they do not think that people will pay more for a new design.

[wellington1869]

I think their biggest problem is that they do not think that people will pay more for a new design.

and they're proven wrong on that every single day by the prices that old M mini's are fetching on ebay.  If people are paying 200 bucks for 10 year old minis, they'll definitely pay 150 for a brand spanking new unicomp one.
add a piano black gloss on it, and its game over.

[huha]

By the way, Metadot has TWO keyboard products.  One with blank letters (which they label the EU version as well - LOL) and the lettered version.  Cycle design every two years to keep fresh.  Market the hell out of them.

Metadot is not a keyboard manufacturer. Unicomp is a relatively small-scale business manufacturing keyboards. They seem to do some OEM work for Boscom, and also sell their products directly to customers.
Metadot, on the other hand, had Keytronic produce an unlettered version of a standard keyboard, which is relatively cheap to do, and sold it for quite a lot. Then they went to Cherry and did the same and now they asked Costar to manufacture a custom design for them. They already have the market available and probably some funds to invest in this operation, but it's not very risky.

Outsells all these booteek keyboards we've been talking about.  Check the view counts on Das Youtube "reviews".  Check Filcos.  Check against the view count of the "splatter against the wall 200 Taiwanese versions" of iOne, iRocks, and iClone.

Filcos aren't available. The Das is available pretty much everywhere, whereas Filcos aren't. How long could you easily buy them in the US? A couple of months. Also, they don't send out review units and have aggressive marketing.
The mechanical iRocks boards seem to be quite nice, actually. Their layout may be somewhat crippled (although their PCB has the neccessary holes for doing a proper layout), but they offer all features you'd like at a competitive price. The Filcos look sleeker and less gimmicky, but the iRocks boards aren't worse as far as switches are concerned, but cheaper.

and they're proven wrong on that every single day by the prices that old M mini's are fetching on ebay.  If people are paying 200 bucks for 10 year old minis, they'll definitely pay 150 for a brand spanking new unicomp one.

Maybe, maybe not. Also, you don't know how many potential customers there are. If they still have the working machinery, it'll only take a few dozens of keyboards to make this viable, but if they don't, it'll be much more expensive.

add a piano black gloss on it, and its game over.

Game over for me, at least. Glossy plastic doesn't look good, it looks cheap. The only good way of making glossy plastic is to use thin acrylic printed on the back on top of your normal plastic, but that's quite expensive.

-huha

[itlnstln]

Game over for me, at least. Glossy plastic doesn't look good, it looks cheap. The only good way of making glossy plastic is to use thin acrylic printed on the back on top of your normal plastic, but that's quite expensive.
 
-huha

It seems to work well for Metadot, Logitech and MS.  All-in-all, there are quite a few people around here and other places, too, I would imagine, that are looking for a more modern-looking BS keyboard, whatever that means to them.  As long as the underlying technology remains the same, they can package it in whatever they want.  
 
People don't necessarily want to have to buy a new 20 year-old 'board just for BS technology.

[vils]

I waited quite  a while for a BS mighty mouse before I gave up hope and laid my hands on the SMK-85 for my Facit project. If the mightymouse BS comes finally comes I think I'll rebuild the whole thing to accomodate this new keyboard. I want it to sound like the Lost keyboard, I want to save the world.
Despite Unicomps optimistic schedules I will order a few keyboards from them.
Not that I need them but I want to support a company that actually repairs and produces BS keyboards. They make some strange decicions but they should be merited for actually making a clone of the best KB ever.

[quadibloc]

I would want to cheer Unicomp, not bash it. I'm glad to hear that they're coming out with a compact keyboard, since that is a popular keyboard type.

If I were them, I would throw in an Fn key, though, to allow a section of the keyboard to be turned into a numeric keypad in a pinch (i.e. M, JKL, UIO, 789) like on many laptop keyboards.

I see that they have 122-key keyboards that can connect to PCs at a reasonable price. That, rather than a smaller keyboard, kind of interests me. But I know what I would rush to buy like mad, if they ever made it, though I doubt that they will.

Some businesses might be interested in such a product as well, if they have many PCs that are used - but only occasionally - to connect to an AS/400 system or something similar.

And that is a 122-key keyboard with the main typing portion changed to have the usual 101-key U.S. layout. Actually, that would be a 125-key keyboard with the main typing portion having the usual 104-key U.S. layout.

Since one extra international key is present on the 122-key keyboard, I would advocate sticking it out of the way, on the right side of the right-hand Shift key.

The intent is for the keyboard to have the keys of a 122-key keyboard available for mainframe/midrange connectivity applications, but with the layout matching the usual PC layout for greater ease of use.

But generally speaking business users aren't interested in nonstandard layouts, so I'm afraid this is not feasible except through an effort on my own part at keyboard customization. I know that for my web site, I've only been able to find partial and incomplete information on 122-key keyboard scan codes, though.

[Hak Foo]

Personally, I'd be way more interested in the 122 (and better yet, the 124-125 you propose) if it were programmable.

I don't connect to a mini, but I'd love some media keys.

[quadibloc]

Personally, I'd be way more interested in the 122 (and better yet, the 124-125 you propose) if it were programmable.

I don't connect to a mini, but I'd love some media keys.

That is a good idea. From some other companies out there, there are point-of-sale keyboards that look like a PC keyboard with another row of function keys. Some of them may even have mechanical switches. But I suspect they're "programmable" in the sense that you can make one of those keys type "Hi!" or " 5 a", not specify a scan code. So that lets out turning those keys into either F13 to F24 or media keys.

[quadibloc]

Ahem, perhaps I've missed something, but my 122 key '86 terminal board is coming along nicely in that regard...only a couple hurdles left.

Every key on the board sends a scancode, making every key on the board reassignable. That said, there are still those couple significant issues remaining.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6770

From that thread, one of the questions that have bothered me has been answered:

http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/ibm_1390876.html

not only shows the Scan Code Set 3 scan codes for a 122-key keyboard, which match what I already knew, but also show what they are translated to, giving me standard values for the other two scan codes (because the translate table for those from the BIOS is available).

EDIT: And I see from there that my Memorex 122-key keyboard is fully equivalent to a modern IBM Host Connected keyboard using Scan Code Set 3, producing the same results, at least in terms of the Scan Code Set 1 equivalents returned from the BIOS.

EDIT: I can understand why, despite the frustration of many, Unicomp is not making a great many new products. The standard 104-key keyboard would probably be their most popular product, and coming out with an attempt to imitate, say, the Happy Hacking keyboard might produce an inferior result as well as limited sales.

That being said, though, what extensions to their product line would be reasonable to hope for? I think that more compact keyboards are popular enough that some alternate choices would be worthwhile to provide.

The one they're about to come out with, a 104-key keyboard with the numeric keypad omitted to shrink it, is the first obvious choice.

The second would be a keyboard that is even more compact, because it has the arrangement of keys of the model M4. That keyboard design depends on some keys being only slightly over 1/2" wide instead of 3/4" wide, though, so it would require designing molds for a new keycap. However, that layout could be modified a bit, or a different laptop-like arrangement could fill this niche.

The third compact keyboard alternative that would seem to be worth making would be one of those designs where the numeric keypad is placed above the right-hand side of the alphanumeric keypad, and the function keys and everything else are shoved in the space to the left of the numeric keypad, if this isn't prevented by patents.

[quadibloc]

The one thing I thought I'd share here is that when asked about a keyboard similar to the IBM space saving model, he said it would be coming soon. How soon? Well depends, anywhere from 3-6 months to a year.

I see now, at

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/mightymouse1.html

that while they don't have, yet, a keyboard like the abbreviated Model M without a numeric keypad, and they discontinued the version of the Mighty Mouse with a piezoelectric pointing device... they _do_ advertise on their stores.yahoo.net page (their regular page being down) a keyboard in the Model M4 or PS/2 L40 style. So unless there is an inaccuracy I am missing, there _is_ a buckling spring compact keyboard alternative.

[ed_]

I see now, at

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/mightymouse1.html

that while they don't have, yet, a keyboard like the abbreviated Model M without a numeric keypad, and they discontinued the version of the Mighty Mouse with a piezoelectric pointing device... they _do_ advertise on their stores.yahoo.net page (their regular page being down) a keyboard in the Model M4 or PS/2 L40 style. So unless there is an inaccuracy I am missing, there _is_ a buckling spring compact keyboard alternative.

That's their version of the M4, which is a rubber dome keyboard.

[quadibloc]

That's their version of the M4, which is a rubber dome keyboard.

Oops, silly me. Plenty of people are making compact rubber dome keyboards, and at prices like $12 rather than $99, so that doesn't add anything. But that makes sense, although I'd have hoped for scissor switches at least.

[itlnstln]

Oops, silly me. Plenty of people are making compact rubber dome keyboards, and at prices like $12 rather than $99, so that doesn't add anything. But that makes sense, although I'd have hoped for scissor switches at least.

It's not your average rubber dome.  It's what iMav refers to as a "buckling rubber sleeve."  I have never tried one, personally, but a lot of members think they are pretty nice for a non-mechanical 'board.  I also read that the IBM versions are better than Unicomp's, but then again, I don't have any first-hand experience with them.

[bigpook]

I have a M4-1 that I use when I am back in the cubicle. The trackpoint is nice as I don't need to have a seperate mouse. The keys are good. They have a short throw but the feel is nice.
I got mine off of ebay for like 35 dollars.

The only 'downside' is the honking coiled cable that comes with. Its a bit oversized to say the least.

[wheel83]

I really wish unicomp does release a tenkeyless.  anyone have any update on this???

[exia]

it is december now, any updates?

[ch_123]

None. And I wouldn't really hold my breath waiting for a new one either. The last completely new design they released was 10 years ago.

[microsoft windows]

It's not your average rubber dome.  It's what iMav refers to as a "buckling rubber sleeve."  I have never tried one, personally, but a lot of members think they are pretty nice for a non-mechanical 'board.  I also read that the IBM versions are better than Unicomp's, but then again, I don't have any first-hand experience with them.

They're just about the same. After all, both companies used the same machines.

[ch_123]

They're just about the same. After all, both companies used the same machines.

Yeah, but build quality is supposedly not as good. Supposedly...

[ch_123]

Really what we need is for Webwit to buy one of every variant of every year of production, and come back and tell us that there are no differences.

Of course, the fact that Webwit hates M4s makes it all the better.

[ch_123]

Never seen those before, but it makes sense - the M6-1 keyboard used by the Thinkpad was also made by Keytronic. Greenock didn't make any though - I have a German layout one that was made by Lexmark.

[microsoft windows]

Yeah, but build quality is supposedly not as good. Supposedly...

Supposedly is right. How can build quality decline by a noticeable amount if the same machinery is used?

[sethstorm]

Supposedly is right. How can build quality decline by a noticeable amount if the same machinery is used?

Using materials from questionable nations (which cut every corner in quality) is one way that can be done.  

The keyboard is only as good as its components and the processes used to make those components.

[JBert]

Hey lookie dat, they put a mark where to stick the foam tape.  Luckily the tape doesn't disintegrate like the Model F foam.

Wait another 5-10 years and it'll be gone too. Any foam will crumble once it hits a certain age.

Better make sure to have some replacement tape.

[ch_123]

Supposedly is right. How can build quality decline by a noticeable amount if the same machinery is used?

If the same machinery is being used after all these years, I'd bet it's probably getting quite worn.

Although I suspect that they're living off old stock with those M4s. Why else would they sell the non-trackpoint ones for $100 a pop?

[microsoft windows]

The machines shouldn't become so worn that they don't make quality products anymore. That's not the quality declines people seem to see in Model M's anyway.

About the M4's your theory sounds pretty viable. Chances are that's what's going on.

[sethstorm]

If the same machinery is being used after all these years, I'd bet it's probably getting quite worn.

I'm talking about the source material for the newer ones, not the tooling.

[Ninjerk]

I just got a call back from Unicomp, he was a very nice gentleman who answered a lot of my questions. Something with a "J" I think, Jim maybe? Sorry, I'm not very good with names.

The one thing I thought I'd share here is that when asked about a keyboard similar to the IBM space saving model, he said it would be coming soon. How soon? Well depends, anywhere from 3-6 months to a year.

So here's me keeping my fingers crossed and waiting.

It's been years since you announced this and Unicomp still hasn't released a tenkeyless board.

Looking on their site though, it looks like they did print Geekhack.org keycaps, which is amazing. I didn't know this site had that much sway.

And a 3rd note, what's going on with Unicomp? Almost all of their boards are listed as sold out. Did someone just go through and pick up all their boards or are they winding down production?

[mashby]

  Wow. Seriously... w o w ! 



That has to be a record for reviving a dead thread...3.5 years!  )

[Ninjerk]

Wow. Seriously... w o w ! 

Show Image

That has to be a record for reviving a dead thread...3.5 years!  :))

I don't like starting new threads for existing topics, no matter how old. It's just messy to me.

[mashby]

I don't like starting new threads for existing topics, no matter how old. It's just messy to me.

I can see your point, but the update you're looking for can be found here.

Unicomp has their own vendor forum as well.

[Dubsgalore]

Resurrection of a thread from 3.5 years ago..good god man

[kmiller8]

don't worry guys, Unicomp told some kids "engineers are working on it" and "ssk verified" and "later this year"

#2014SSK

everyone is stupid.

[rowdy]

Aaaaaaaand if you write SSK, and backspace the K, and cross your eyes a bit, it looks like a 3.

Half-Life 3 confirmed!