Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!

[Asininity]

Seems like a decent deal to me. I'm purchasing a load of Gataron switches from the GB and the overall cost of the Infinity would be $126.45 verses $136.37 for Gataron switches from Massdrop or $146.37 for cherry.

I just wish it had the options for LEDs.

[ideus]

Seems like a decent deal to me. I'm purchasing a load of Gataron switches from the GB and the overall cost of the Infinity would be $126.45 verses $136.37 for Gataron switches from Massdrop or $146.37 for cherry.

I just wish it had the options for LEDs.

You can get it with no switches and source them from the GH GB as well, if what you want are Gaterons.

[Asininity]

Seems like a decent deal to me. I'm purchasing a load of Gataron switches from the GB and the overall cost of the Infinity would be $126.45 verses $136.37 for Gataron switches from Massdrop or $146.37 for cherry.

I just wish it had the options for LEDs.

You can get it with no switches and source them from the GH GB as well, if what you want are Gaterons.

Those were the prices I was comparing. $126.45 for Gatarons from the GB (-$30 for no switches from Massdrop + $10.xx for switches from GB), $136.37 for Gatarons from Massdrop, or $146.37 for cherry from Massdrop.

$126.45 with PBT caps is a very appealing price tag.

[ideus]

Seems like a decent deal to me. I'm purchasing a load of Gataron switches from the GB and the overall cost of the Infinity would be $126.45 verses $136.37 for Gataron switches from Massdrop or $146.37 for cherry.

I just wish it had the options for LEDs.

You can get it with no switches and source them from the GH GB as well, if what you want are Gaterons.

Those were the prices I was comparing. $126.45 for Gatarons from the GB (-$30 for no switches from Massdrop + $10.xx for switches from GB), $136.37 for Gatarons from Massdrop, or $146.37 for cherry from Massdrop.

$126.45 with PBT caps is a very appealing price tag.

It is good.

[KHAANNN]

I decided not to get one to use as my main keyboard, however I didn't decide whether to get one or not yet

After emulating the switch to an 60% keyboard, I noticed that use the arrow keys pretty heavily, I'm mostly writing things down/constructing the skeleton and filling the blanks later on while coding, using a modifier and self-made arrow keys would probably be a significant and recurring delay

On the other hand, there is always the possibility to put a red switch in the caps lock for example, and use it as a more frequent and easy modifier, so I'm tempted to just try the possibility out, It's shipping May++ anyway, a very long time to wait

I don't know about any case leds, but it's better not to have leds on the switches IMO, Asininity, it seems more robust that way, easier to replace switches

https://www.massdrop.com/keyboard/infinity/assembly I really like that stabilizer wires, the switch bumpless approach is pretty good, I haven't seen similar ones on sale (I should probably look)

[TheSoulhunter]

In for two...

[KRKS]

So at the cheapest I'm looking at a $125 board(Gatorade Brown + caps, and I don't have a better place to get either). On top of that I get $36 shipping and $40~ish import taxes(yay for making MSRP twice your price and then putting it in declared value), which makes 201 bucks...

Yeah, I think I'm just gonna get a Poker II with an actual case for $130 shipped. Or a Noppoo 75 if I feel like soldering on a custom controller. Sure, I'd like something with a HHKB Backspace and pipe, but I can live with a standard layout as long as it's ANSI.

[ideus]

So at the cheapest I'm looking at a $125 board(Gatorade Brown + caps, and I don't have a better place to get either). On top of that I get $36 shipping and $40~ish import taxes(yay for making MSRP twice your price and then putting it in declared value), which makes 201 bucks...

Yeah, I think I'm just gonna get a Poker II with an actual case for $130 shipped. Or a Noppoo 75 if I feel like soldering on a custom controller. Sure, I'd like something with a HHKB Backspace and pipe, but I can live with a standard layout as long as it's ANSI.

European taxes are really high. But, what do mean by a Poker with an actual case? You can get the Infinity with an actual case and a flat plate, as well, but factoring your shipping and taxes it would be certainly more expensive than the Poker.

[KRKS]

But, what do mean by a Poker with an actual case? You can get the Infinity with an actual case and a flat plate

at the cheapest

[nubbinator]

So at the cheapest I'm looking at a $125 board(Gatorade Brown + caps, and I don't have a better place to get either). On top of that I get $36 shipping and $40~ish import taxes(yay for making MSRP twice your price and then putting it in declared value), which makes 201 bucks...

Yeah, I think I'm just gonna get a Poker II with an actual case for $130 shipped. Or a Noppoo 75 if I feel like soldering on a custom controller. Sure, I'd like something with a HHKB Backspace and pipe, but I can live with a standard layout as long as it's ANSI.

[FoC_Tow]

Im thinking about joining the drop for an Infinity as well but I have a few questions.

-How difficult will finding appropriate Keycaps be?

  The 'non hacker' layout looks completely standard to me except for two 1 keys instead of the usual backspace,
  so i guess pretty much all keysets should be able to cover this?!
  Labeling on keys might in some places become an issue tho as you would most likely use \ (above enter) as backspace (or del) for example.

  Does the Hyperfuse set for example include a backspace labeled button to replace \ btw?
  (it kinda looks like it might eventually...)
 
 
 
  Also for the hacker layout it looks like for example Hyperfuse or most SP sets would have everything required for the bottom row,
  except for the 6 spacebar which at least for SP sets is usually available separate?!
  So it would limit the selection quite a bit but realistically still be possible to find caps for this layout?


- I'm not a big backlighting fan, but just to be sure the pcb doesn't feature led mounts, right?

- It was mentioned before that the GON universal 60 backplate would fit the infinity pcb,
  but would it really support the full single top row?

- Would the infinity or GON flat plates allow opening of the switches while installed by any chance?
  If for example one switch turn out to be defect after building it, would i have to desolder all the switches in order to access a single switch?

- Also, more of a nerd 60 question but would the Nerd 60 PCB support a full single top row as well?


I really like the infinity for full programability and would probably go for no switches and join the group buy for gateron blacks and maybe clear covers...
 

[ideus]

  Does the Hyperfuse set for example include a backspace labeled button to replace \ btw?
  (it kinda looks like it might eventually...)
   

    The 1.5 backspace may be added to the set, eventually. There is no confirmation yet.
 
 

 - I'm not a big backlighting fan, but just to be sure the pcb doesn't feature led mounts, right?
 

  Infinity does not have LED support.
 

- Would the infinity allow opening of the switches while installed by any chance?
 

Infinity plate does not have the cut outs for switch opening.


 
 

If for example one switch turn out to be defect after building it, would i have to desolder all the switches in order to access a single switch?
 

Yes.

I really like the infinity for full programability and would probably go for no switches and join the group buy for gateron blacks and maybe clear covers...

Same here.

[FoC_Tow]

Thanks for the quick response ideus!

It's my first keyboard build so help is very appreciated! =)
(I have some experience in soldering pcbs at least tho.)

As far as I understand Gateron switches don't have LED support either, but if you would for example solder switch mounted LEDs on say a poker 2,
you would have to desolder all LEDs as well as switches to open a switch.
Out of curiosity, would switch mounted LEDs still stop you from opening a switch even if the mounting plate has cutouts for it?

Also which case are you going with on a side note? xD

Im considering to go with a simple vortex metal cast atm cause its affordable and i like the shape.
I actually like high cut cases that cover the switches a lot as well, but it seems hard to find a good looking one...

[Parak]

- Would the infinity allow opening of the switches while installed by any chance?
 

Infinity plate does not have the cut outs for switch opening.
 

It actually does via the alps support (wider on the sides). So switch opening is possible.

 

If for example one switch turn out to be defect after building it, would i have to desolder all the switches in order to access a single switch?
 

Yes.

Not sure if I'm missing the point, but if a single switch is defective, you'd just desolder that one switch..

[ideus]

- Would the infinity allow opening of the switches while installed by any chance?
 

Infinity plate does not have the cut outs for switch opening.
 

It actually does via the alps support (wider on the sides). So switch opening is possible.

 

If for example one switch turn out to be defect after building it, would i have to desolder all the switches in order to access a single switch?
 

Yes.

Not sure if I'm missing the point, but if a single switch is defective, you'd just desolder that one switch..

Thank you for the clarification on the switches cut outs to be slightly wider due to ALPS support, I have not tried it yet but it should allow switch tops removal with no desoldering. However, to replace one switch when the PCB is soldered, all the switches should be de-soldered.

[KHAANNN]

I decided to get 1 or 2 after I realised that the 3 rightmost modifiers and the shift key can be utilised as dedicated arrows, I like my arrows (in the standard layout, the placement is just perfect)

Now I'm not sure whether I should build 2, one for gaming and one for anything else, since switching an 60% with a free usb cable will be easy, whereas switching a TKL with a tucked in cable is not
The only reason for this duality cleanness, gaming puts too much wear/grease on the keyboard, and I was also thinking of getting one as a spare board, as I like my spares too (also considering quitting gaming, I don't like what it does to my keyboards)

I don't like the hyperfuse's colorscheme, yet the additional keys seem perfect, especially the 1x1 "\|" and the <x delete key

[strict]

However, to replace one switch when the PCB is soldered, all the switches should be de-soldered.

False, you can easily desolder one switch and pop it out without touching any of the others. There is absolutely zero reason to desolder all the other switches if you're having issues with just one. All you have to do is desolder the contacts and push in on the two locking tabs and the switch will pop out without having to mess with any of the other switches.

[ideus]

However, to replace one switch when the PCB is soldered, all the switches should be de-soldered.

False, you can easily desolder one switch and pop it out without touching any of the others. There is absolutely zero reason to desolder all the other switches if you're having issues with just one. All you have to do is desolder the contacts and push in on the two locking tabs and the switch will pop out without having to mess with any of the other switches.

I just did this with the infinity and it is doable, I was wrong.

[KHAANNN]

Now I can't decide between Tex or Vortex, I like flatness, yet my keycaps will probably be DSA from now on, I'm not sure about the complete flatness that the Tex will provide

I also like the minimalism of the 60%'s, so Tex seems better on that aspect

Any suggestions?

[inanis]

Now I can't decide between Tex or Vortex, I like flatness, yet my keycaps will probably be DSA from now on, I'm not sure about the complete flatness that the Tex will provide

I also like the minimalism of the 60%'s, so Tex seems better on that aspect

Any suggestions?

I have a Tex case and DSA caps on my Poker and I really like the "flatness" of this setup. The Tex case should come with the large rubber bumpon feet if you need a bit of an angle. Certainly not as much as the Vortex case though.

As for the Infinity....I'm on the fence. I'm not sure if I like the idea of a non-standard backspace. I do want to build a board, I have the switches, I have multiple cases...but I keep looking at that top row and thinking that it would drive me crazy.

[ideus]

Now I can't decide between Tex or Vortex, I like flatness, yet my keycaps will probably be DSA from now on, I'm not sure about the complete flatness that the Tex will provide

I also like the minimalism of the 60%'s, so Tex seems better on that aspect

Any suggestions?

I have a Tex case and DSA caps on my Poker and I really like the "flatness" of this setup. The Tex case should come with the large rubber bumpon feet if you need a bit of an angle. Certainly not as much as the Vortex case though.

As for the Infinity....I'm on the fence. I'm not sure if I like the idea of a non-standard backspace. I do want to build a board, I have the switches, I have multiple cases...but I keep looking at that top row and thinking that it would drive me crazy.

The backspace on top of the enter key is an alternative here, and it feels close to the enter at the top row.

[KHAANNN]

Now I can't decide between Tex or Vortex, I like flatness, yet my keycaps will probably be DSA from now on, I'm not sure about the complete flatness that the Tex will provide

I also like the minimalism of the 60%'s, so Tex seems better on that aspect

Any suggestions?

I have a Tex case and DSA caps on my Poker and I really like the "flatness" of this setup. The Tex case should come with the large rubber bumpon feet if you need a bit of an angle. Certainly not as much as the Vortex case though.

As for the Infinity....I'm on the fence. I'm not sure if I like the idea of a non-standard backspace. I do want to build a board, I have the switches, I have multiple cases...but I keep looking at that top row and thinking that it would drive me crazy.

It's definitely an issue, utilising < and > as backspace and delete is a nice idea though, my main problem is keycaps, I would like to use keysets - as close to their printings as possible, not having a 1x1 "|\" makes the situation not elegant

On the other hand, If I had the required non-standard delete and 1x1 "\|" with the sp dolch set for example, I would definitely use the layout as the designer(s) intended, backspace instead of "\|" definitely makes sense, yet since I'm obsessed with printed keycaps currently, my proposed <> solution seems better

They would also make nice macro/combo keys at the top

After 1-2 days of painful muscle memory rewriting, 1x1 backspace + 1x1 delete might be fun too



On the plus side, the non-standard backspace could ugre you to make less mistakes :)

[OverKill]

Now I can't decide between Tex or Vortex, I like flatness, yet my keycaps will probably be DSA from now on, I'm not sure about the complete flatness that the Tex will provide

I also like the minimalism of the 60%'s, so Tex seems better on that aspect

Any suggestions?

I have a Tex case and DSA caps on my Poker and I really like the "flatness" of this setup. The Tex case should come with the large rubber bumpon feet if you need a bit of an angle. Certainly not as much as the Vortex case though.

As for the Infinity....I'm on the fence. I'm not sure if I like the idea of a non-standard backspace. I do want to build a board, I have the switches, I have multiple cases...but I keep looking at that top row and thinking that it would drive me crazy.

To be honest, I have used all 1x top row keyboards before and i've hated them. Once I tried the backspace down on the \| though I have to say I really enjoy the hell out of it. Having backspace there is much more comfortable. Now I have an extra key I need to do something with on the top row..

[Vio]

Does anyone know what these 4 pins are for? I bought a flat plate version of the kit so I could put it in a case that I already had, but the pins poke through and are longer than the case is thick. Is it safe to cut/trim them?

[ideus]

Does anyone know what these 4 pins are for? I bought a flat plate version of the kit so I could put it in a case that I already had, but the pins poke through and are longer than the case is thick. Is it safe to cut/trim them?

Show Image

The reset button is near those pins, are they related?

[HaaTa]

Yeah, it's safe to clip them.

The header is there for bootloader flashing. They are useful if you ever brick your keyboard for whatever reason or for some reason want to change the bootloader. I'd say 99% of people will never use them.

There is one nice dev feature though, if you put a jumper between the middle two pins, you can do a remote reflash without pressing the button using the virtual serial port.

[ideus]

Yeah, it's safe to clip them.

The header is there for bootloader flashing. They are useful if you ever brick your keyboard for whatever reason or for some reason want to change the bootloader. I'd say 99% of people will never use them.

There is one nice dev feature though, if you put a jumper between the middle two pins, you can do a remote reflash without pressing the button using the virtual serial port.

What kind of connector they take?

[HaaTa]

Typical 0.1 inch (2.54 mm) pitch. The connector itself isn't really standard.

Any SWD flasher should work, though you have to be careful about the chip, it's not 5 V tolerant (3.3V). The Vcc pin is 5 V however to prevent you from burning out the chip if you have the usb cable and flasher plugged in at the same time.

[ideus]

Typical 0.1 inch (2.54 mm) pitch. The connector itself isn't really standard.

Any SWD flasher should work, though you have to be careful about the chip, it's not 5 V tolerant (3.3V). The Vcc pin is 5 V however to prevent you from burning out the chip if you have the usb cable and flasher plugged in at the same time.

Is there a plug that you recommend to protect the pins without cutting them?

[jacobolus]

Why not just take some pliers and bend them 90° near the base?

[Huxley2500]

Are there build instructions?

[ideus]

Are there build instructions?

Here.

[FoC_Tow]

- Would the infinity allow opening of the switches while installed by any chance?
 

Infinity plate does not have the cut outs for switch opening.
 

It actually does via the alps support (wider on the sides). So switch opening is possible.

 

If for example one switch turn out to be defect after building it, would i have to desolder all the switches in order to access a single switch?
 

Yes.

Not sure if I'm missing the point, but if a single switch is defective, you'd just desolder that one switch..

THX for clarification parak!

However, to replace one switch when the PCB is soldered, all the switches should be de-soldered.

False, you can easily desolder one switch and pop it out without touching any of the others. There is absolutely zero reason to desolder all the other switches if you're having issues with just one. All you have to do is desolder the contacts and push in on the two locking tabs and the switch will pop out without having to mess with any of the other switches.

I just did this with the infinity and it is doable, I was wrong.

And THX for actually testing and confirming ideus!


Also coming from being used to ISO layouts, it feels very natural to have the backspace right above enter... xD
But then again anyone can choose what works for them. I like the 1x1 del and 1x1 backspace idea as well, especially for better legend compatibility.

[KHAANNN]

Apart from the exposed pins, how does it fit in the regular/mainstream 60% cases?

[ideus]

Apart from the exposed pins, how does it fit in the regular/mainstream 60% cases?

I will try mine with an standard Poker case tonight. I'll keep you posted on that.

[KHAANNN]

Apart from the exposed pins, how does it fit in the regular/mainstream 60% cases?

I will try mine with an standard Poker case tonight. I'll keep you posted on that.

Thanks a lot, some pictures would be great too, especially the plate and case color blending-wise :)

[ideus]

Apart from the exposed pins, how does it fit in the regular/mainstream 60% cases?

I will try mine with an standard Poker case tonight. I'll keep you posted on that.

Thanks a lot, some pictures would be great too, especially the plate and case color blending-wise

Of course sir.

[KHAANNN]

Of course sir.

<3

Let me also ask you my questions in advance

Does the keyboard feel solid when attached to a 60% case? (Does it wobble etc, or it is really solid)
How's the sound dynamics? (this is more of a general flat 60% question, the enclosed regular cases amplify the side sounds like pings a lot)
Does it seem like it can handle bashing? (hard bottom outs on clear/green switches)
Does it seem like the keyboard can be re-attached to a case multiple times and keep it's integrity?


It seems I'm going to buy one nevertheless, but I'm just not sure about the details yet, I guess I will wait until the deadline to pull the plug and get as much information in the meantime :)

[ideus]

Khaannn's questions:


I installed the Infinity in an standard stock plastic Poker X Case in black. I have four .5 inch strips of very light styroform net installed between the ribs at the bottom of the case. The Infinity set festures clear MXs, and PBT DSA Granite's key caps.


Does the keyboard feel solid when attached to a 60% case? (Does it wobble etc, or it is really solid)
> The keyboard feels solid, it does not wobble at all.


How's the sound dynamics? (this is more of a general flat 60% question, the enclosed regular cases amplify the side sounds like pings a lot)
> The sound has very low pitch, no amplification whatsoever. It sounds nicer than the stock PCB mounted reds the Poker came with.


Does it seem like it can handle bashing? (hard bottom outs on clear/green switches).
>Absolutely, the Infinity compares favorable with how solid my FC660M feels. It feels even more solid, if that was actually possible, because the Leo is very solid.


Does it seem like the keyboard can be re-attached to a case multiple times and keep it's integrity?
I do not see why not, the PCB is very solid, the case drill threads may suffer though.


Some cell potato pictures that I hope may give you an idea of the look. I will install an acrylic TEX case soon.

[KHAANNN]

Thanks a lot for the information and photos, a beautiful keyset too, have fun with your keyboard :)

I guess if I had the option, I would prefer a black anodized plate, for some reason I have the impression that stainless steel corrodes in 3-4 years-top, but never experienced corrosion problems with anodised metals

Apart from edge/initial bugs like the fn-key issue, I didn't see anyone complain about the keyboard yet

At this point, I just can't decide whether I should get an additional one as spare with clear switches, I do like having spares of everything I own, I'm also very tempted to try clears on an actual keyboard, so I might go green/clear

7 days to decide :)

[ideus]

Does somebody knows how to define non-ANSI US characters in the Infinity's configurator?


Specially: ñ Ñ, á, Á, é É, í Í, ó Ó, ú Ú.

[HaaTa]

Not directly, this isn't a limitation of the configurator really. USB doesn't have mappings for these keys. It's left to the os to do the conversion.

In the long term I plan on writing an OS driver to output unicode directly, but this will take me a while (without help at least).

[ideus]

Not directly, this isn't a limitation of the configurator really. USB doesn't have mappings for these keys. It's left to the os to do the conversion.

In the long term I plan on writing an OS driver to output unicode directly, but this will take me a while (without help at least).

That makes sense. The OS takes care of those non-standard mapping. Thank you for the explanation.


In the other hand, could the configurator handle macros?

[jacobolus]

One nice feature of a GUI configuration tool would be to show the outputs for different OS-level keyboard layouts. The ideal would be to allow loading of any standard Win/Mac/Linux keyboard layout files, but it would probably even be sufficient to make some simple new file format for that and crowdsource adding the most common national layouts.

[ShYtFaCe]

I'm probably a teeny tiny minority, but how many people besides me would be interested in a similar project that uses Cherry ML switches and a 6 row layout for Function keys?

I might be alone, but I prefer slim profile, mini keyboards for gaming/typing. I've actually been considering picking up a Cherry G84-4100ML to try out, but they obviously lack NKRO and programmable customization like this crowdsourced Infinity. And there are definitely a few layout changes I wish I could make to the G84-4100 without the need for clumsy software solutions.

A major problem with the Infinity, for me, is the lack of a Function key row. I might be ignorant, but I'm not sure what NKRO does for touch typing, isn't this pretty much just a benefit for gaming? And if so, aren't Function keys pretty necessary for several genres of games, MMO/RPG and RTS, for example? I use them regularly when I play. I also just can't see myself ever using Cherry MX keyboards because of the massive keys/spacing required, this is the main reason I've not made the switch from membrane/dome.

The G84-4100 is the closest option I've found to what I'm looking for so far, but a few small layout issues and the lack of NKRO keep it from being a 'must buy' for me. Not a whole lot of advantages over the membranes I'm used to without these features, especially for the price.

Are there 150-200 people in the same boat as me to make an 83-86 key Infinity ML worth crowdsourcing?

[jacobolus]

I'm probably a teeny tiny minority, but how many people besides me would be interested in a similar project that uses Cherry ML switches and a 6 row layout for Function keys?

I think you’ll have to DIY this one. Sounds like a fun project though!

[FoC_Tow]

I guess if I had the option, I would prefer a black anodized plate, for some reason I have the impression that stainless steel corrodes in 3-4 years-top, but never experienced corrosion problems with anodised metals

This is actually quite a major concern for me regarding the infinity.

Leaving the plate blank really doesn't seem very ideal to me since, like KHAANNN mentioned,
if its stainless steel this can usually at least start to pick up rust on the surface and therefore look corroded, unless it's protected by some kind of clear finish.

Also I don't really like the looks of the blank plate and think that changing or refinishing it could also be quite a big improvement for the appearance.


I'm not sure how durable a simple spray paint finish would be but I guess it might even be ok since (noob question) the keycaps are not going to actually hit the plate even bottomed out?!

Also I don't think that anodizing would work unless its aluminum, which as far as i know is pretty much the only metal you can anodize.

Powder coating probably would be very durable, but usually adds quite a bit of thickness and might cause switches to sit very tight or even need sanding to fit.

Also it was speculated before if other plates like the GON universal 60 would fit as a replacement plate, but I'm still confused because of the full single top row?!


Maybe someone can clarify if the infinity plate is in fact stainless steal and report on how durable it is...

I definitely wish they would have included a anodized aluminum flat plate and maybe stainless steal bent plate to save on costs.
Or just have a anodized aluminum option available for a small extra fee maybe...

[Smasher816]

(noob question) the keycaps are not going to actually hit the plate even bottomed out?!

The keycaps don't hit the plate, the stem hits the top of the switch housing.

Regarding the design I am almost position Haata and Massdrop went with something similar for their first design as they wanted something cheap and easy to produce as they figured out how much interest something like this could draw. They did also offer a flat plate version so you could throw it in another case like a poker one if you wanted...

I personally don't mind the bent plate too much as I think its cool. It kind of cool how you can show anyone who walks by that it is a DIY keyboard and what goes into it. The sound and feel is not bad while typing on it, and I am not too worried about the durability in the long run.

[Parak]

if its stainless steel this can usually at least start to pick up rust on the surface and therefore look corroded, unless it's protected by some kind of clear finish.

I'm certainly not a materials engineer, but stainless steel, with which infinity plates and case are made, should not corrode/rust in normal circumstances, without any need for a finish or coating. It forms its own chromium layer that protects it passively from corrosion. Unless something is done to disturb that layer, perhaps constant spills of such things as coca cola, sulfuric acid, chlorine trifluoride... though in the latter case you might have bigger things to worry about than rust on your keyboard.

[ideus]

Do your saucepans or kitchen sink corrode?
SS cannot get corroded under normal environmental conditions, temperature, humidity, as most of office environments are. It is stain-less, not stain-free. Thus, extreme condition may affect it.