Author Topic: NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]  (Read 2749071 times)

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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #900 on: Sat, 21 March 2015, 18:49:36 »
Hey Swill, where did you get the specification for the Costar stabilizer cutouts?
I got them off deskthority. It was the only reference I found.
I'll check it out, thanks!
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/costar-stabilizer-plate-measurements-t5872.html

You could also just get the measurements from a plate built from my tool. :)

Offline abjr

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #901 on: Sat, 21 March 2015, 18:55:25 »
You will never notice 0.05mm. It will feel flush.

Its hard to change stuff like that. You can easily add new cutouts, but changing what is there is hard because it is all rendered as one object.

Indeed, although I'm not sure I'd like the aesthetics of it being flush. I'm just trying to somehow convince myself I know what I'm doing. :)
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Offline imbattable

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #902 on: Sat, 21 March 2015, 19:04:14 »
But I guess it is easier to just calculate a plate with the tool and add my own holes, which works very nice.

Can you mention how you would do this. I'm a real noob with CAD, and when I use DraftSight to try and edit one of the DXF files from the tool, the entire design is selected. i.e. I can't seem to just select one switch cutout or one mount hole and attempt to move/modify it.
In DraftSight you can select the shape and choose the last option in the right click menue (I don't have the English version installed, it is something like "Edit block").

How do you determine the placement of the mounting holes in sandwich type cases? It would be nice if there was an additional parameter you could use to  move them closer to the middle (distance from left/right and top/bottom edge for the middle of the hole).

Another nice addition would be an option for sandwich cases, where you can toggle between round and hexagonal holes (like in the winkeyless cases), automatically determining the distance according to the screw/nut definitions (M2.5, M3 etc) with an edge distance to be specified. But that might a) be complicated to implement and b) clutter the interface too much.
Are you looking for holes just around the USB jack?

No, I know that I can add more holes by adding more holes  :cool:

What I mean is that the distance from outer edge to hole seems to be just set on the middle of each padding value (height/width). But I guess it is easier to just calculate a plate with the tool and add my own holes, which works very nice.
Yes the hole center is at the center of the padding.  You want to move the center of the holes farther towards the edge of the plate (or vise versa)?
Exactly. Since the plate seems to calculate the whole area of keys including the keycaps (with the 19.05mm base unit), the padding has to be pretty large to accomodate M3 through holes (which are d_h = 3.4 mm for medium tolerances according to wikipedia citing DIN EN 20273). I try to add hexagonal holes in the sandwich layers to hold hex nuts instead of using barrel nuts, like the winkeyless cases seem to do. I just thought that might be a good option for the automatically generated sandwich cases.
« Last Edit: Sat, 21 March 2015, 19:06:03 by imbattable »

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #903 on: Sat, 21 March 2015, 19:34:06 »
But I guess it is easier to just calculate a plate with the tool and add my own holes, which works very nice.

Can you mention how you would do this. I'm a real noob with CAD, and when I use DraftSight to try and edit one of the DXF files from the tool, the entire design is selected. i.e. I can't seem to just select one switch cutout or one mount hole and attempt to move/modify it.
In DraftSight you can select the shape and choose the last option in the right click menue (I don't have the English version installed, it is something like "Edit block").

How do you determine the placement of the mounting holes in sandwich type cases? It would be nice if there was an additional parameter you could use to  move them closer to the middle (distance from left/right and top/bottom edge for the middle of the hole).

Another nice addition would be an option for sandwich cases, where you can toggle between round and hexagonal holes (like in the winkeyless cases), automatically determining the distance according to the screw/nut definitions (M2.5, M3 etc) with an edge distance to be specified. But that might a) be complicated to implement and b) clutter the interface too much.
Are you looking for holes just around the USB jack?

No, I know that I can add more holes by adding more holes  :cool:

What I mean is that the distance from outer edge to hole seems to be just set on the middle of each padding value (height/width). But I guess it is easier to just calculate a plate with the tool and add my own holes, which works very nice.
Yes the hole center is at the center of the padding.  You want to move the center of the holes farther towards the edge of the plate (or vise versa)?
Exactly. Since the plate seems to calculate the whole area of keys including the keycaps (with the 19.05mm base unit), the padding has to be pretty large to accomodate M3 through holes (which are d_h = 3.4 mm for medium tolerances according to wikipedia citing DIN EN 20273). I try to add hexagonal holes in the sandwich layers to hold hex nuts instead of using barrel nuts, like the winkeyless cases seem to do. I just thought that might be a good option for the automatically generated sandwich cases.
Why use nuts at all. I will just be threading the holes. :)

I can look into moving those holes, but that logic is pretty tricky due to the fact that everything is dynamic.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #904 on: Sat, 21 March 2015, 19:39:37 »
In most CAD software, you select the block and do "explode", if you want to change individual elements, such as lines and arcs.
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #905 on: Sat, 21 March 2015, 19:51:18 »
But I guess it is easier to just calculate a plate with the tool and add my own holes, which works very nice.

Can you mention how you would do this. I'm a real noob with CAD, and when I use DraftSight to try and edit one of the DXF files from the tool, the entire design is selected. i.e. I can't seem to just select one switch cutout or one mount hole and attempt to move/modify it.
In DraftSight you can select the shape and choose the last option in the right click menue (I don't have the English version installed, it is something like "Edit block").

How do you determine the placement of the mounting holes in sandwich type cases? It would be nice if there was an additional parameter you could use to  move them closer to the middle (distance from left/right and top/bottom edge for the middle of the hole).

Another nice addition would be an option for sandwich cases, where you can toggle between round and hexagonal holes (like in the winkeyless cases), automatically determining the distance according to the screw/nut definitions (M2.5, M3 etc) with an edge distance to be specified. But that might a) be complicated to implement and b) clutter the interface too much.
Are you looking for holes just around the USB jack?

No, I know that I can add more holes by adding more holes  :cool:

What I mean is that the distance from outer edge to hole seems to be just set on the middle of each padding value (height/width). But I guess it is easier to just calculate a plate with the tool and add my own holes, which works very nice.
Yes the hole center is at the center of the padding.  You want to move the center of the holes farther towards the edge of the plate (or vise versa)?
Exactly. Since the plate seems to calculate the whole area of keys including the keycaps (with the 19.05mm base unit), the padding has to be pretty large to accomodate M3 through holes (which are d_h = 3.4 mm for medium tolerances according to wikipedia citing DIN EN 20273). I try to add hexagonal holes in the sandwich layers to hold hex nuts instead of using barrel nuts, like the winkeyless cases seem to do. I just thought that might be a good option for the automatically generated sandwich cases.
For M3 I am using 6mm padding. That should be fine.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #906 on: Sat, 21 March 2015, 22:33:56 »
In most CAD software, you select the block and do "explode", if you want to change individual elements, such as lines and arcs.

I just confirmed this works in FreeCAD.  This is the process I used.

From Workbench, select Draft.  Then right click on the drawing and go to: Draft > Downgrade

This will split the drawing into different line segments.

Offline abjr

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #907 on: Sat, 21 March 2015, 23:58:34 »
Can you mention how you would do this. I'm a real noob with CAD, and when I use DraftSight to try and edit one of the DXF files from the tool builder, the entire design is selected. i.e. I can't seem to just select one switch cutout or one mount hole and attempt to move/modify it.
In DraftSight you can select the shape and choose the last option in the right click menue (I don't have the English version installed, it is something like "Edit block").

In most CAD software, you select the block and do "explode", if you want to change individual elements, such as lines and arcs.

Perfect! Thank you both. It is indeed called Explode in DraftSight and was right where imbattable said it would be.
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Offline roflcopter159

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #908 on: Tue, 24 March 2015, 19:19:24 »
I have a couple of quick questions about it this tool. For a plate that is Poker 2 case compatible, what would be the optimal values for the radius of the corner rounding and and the thickness? Also, I'm really not sure what the Kerf value is. Would anyone be able to explain that any? Thanks in advance
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #909 on: Tue, 24 March 2015, 19:45:00 »
I have a couple of quick questions about it this tool. For a plate that is Poker 2 case compatible, what would be the optimal values for the radius of the corner rounding and and the thickness? Also, I'm really not sure what the Kerf value is. Would anyone be able to explain that any? Thanks in advance
I usually use a 2.5 mm radius for the edge corners. Thickness should be 1.5 mm, but you will specify that and the material when you send it to be cut, really. That's for metal, but if you use acrylic for a switch plate, I'd make it 5 mm thick.

Kerf is the value for the thickness of the cutting tool (waterjet or laser). Most shops can compensate for that on their own, if you explain to them what material is important, and what is to be discarded. BigBlueSaw, for example, doesn't need you to compensate for their waterjet's kerf value.
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Offline roflcopter159

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #910 on: Wed, 25 March 2015, 19:10:51 »
I usually use a 2.5 mm radius for the edge corners. Thickness should be 1.5 mm, but you will specify that and the material when you send it to be cut, really. That's for metal, but if you use acrylic for a switch plate, I'd make it 5 mm thick.

Kerf is the value for the thickness of the cutting tool (waterjet or laser). Most shops can compensate for that on their own, if you explain to them what material is important, and what is to be discarded. BigBlueSaw, for example, doesn't need you to compensate for their waterjet's kerf value.

How come the thickness for a metal plate vs. an acrylic plate is so different? Also, based on what you said, if I were to use BigBlueSaw, I wouldn't need to specify the kerf, right? Last question, would you recommend using aluminum, or is there a better metal to use for a plate? I assume aluminum would be good, but I don't know for sure and I don't want to choose the wrong material and make an expensive mistake like that.
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Offline VinnyCordeiro

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #911 on: Wed, 25 March 2015, 19:40:54 »
How come the thickness for a metal plate vs. an acrylic plate is so different?

Acrylic is not as rigid as metal, you know. That's why people use 5mm acrylic plates.

Offline cmadrid

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #912 on: Wed, 25 March 2015, 19:49:01 »
I usually use a 2.5 mm radius for the edge corners. Thickness should be 1.5 mm, but you will specify that and the material when you send it to be cut, really. That's for metal, but if you use acrylic for a switch plate, I'd make it 5 mm thick.

Kerf is the value for the thickness of the cutting tool (waterjet or laser). Most shops can compensate for that on their own, if you explain to them what material is important, and what is to be discarded. BigBlueSaw, for example, doesn't need you to compensate for their waterjet's kerf value.

How come the thickness for a metal plate vs. an acrylic plate is so different? Also, based on what you said, if I were to use BigBlueSaw, I wouldn't need to specify the kerf, right? Last question, would you recommend using aluminum, or is there a better metal to use for a plate? I assume aluminum would be good, but I don't know for sure and I don't want to choose the wrong material and make an expensive mistake like that.

Seems like people typically use aluminum, stainless steel, or acrylic

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #913 on: Wed, 25 March 2015, 21:00:14 »
I usually use a 2.5 mm radius for the edge corners. Thickness should be 1.5 mm, but you will specify that and the material when you send it to be cut, really. That's for metal, but if you use acrylic for a switch plate, I'd make it 5 mm thick.

Kerf is the value for the thickness of the cutting tool (waterjet or laser). Most shops can compensate for that on their own, if you explain to them what material is important, and what is to be discarded. BigBlueSaw, for example, doesn't need you to compensate for their waterjet's kerf value.

How come the thickness for a metal plate vs. an acrylic plate is so different? Also, based on what you said, if I were to use BigBlueSaw, I wouldn't need to specify the kerf, right? Last question, would you recommend using aluminum, or is there a better metal to use for a plate? I assume aluminum would be good, but I don't know for sure and I don't want to choose the wrong material and make an expensive mistake like that.
Plates can only be 1.5-1.6mm for the switch to clip securely into the plate. If you use 5mm acrylic you MUST have a PCB to hold the switches in the plate. 5mm is not random, it is the space between the top of the plate and the PCB.

Aluminum is the cheapest metal and easiest to work with, so it is the most common for prototyping and regular builds. If you get it anodized, they turn out really nice (not a requirement). The main reason people get it anodized is because aluminum is soft, so it can easily scratch. The anodization process makes the surface much more durable.

Stainless steel is also common. It is a lot heavier and stronger.  It is really nice if you have a bigger build and you need solid structure.

That's what I got off the top of my head. Ask if you are confused about anything.

Oh, with bigbluesaw, you can ignore the kerf setting. The default if 0 is good, they will adjust for it.  Just so you know, kerf is the width of the opening made by a cutting device.

Offline roflcopter159

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #914 on: Thu, 26 March 2015, 20:38:50 »
Thank you so much for all of your help. I'll probably look into getting myself a custom plate once I get some money in my pocket.  :thumb:
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Offline Jason_IRL

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #915 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:50:57 »
is the site down?

Offline azhdar

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Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #917 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:11:35 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #918 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:23:31 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

Whoever designed that layout in keyboard-layout-editor.com used 0.5-units between the sections (alpha-nav-numpad), when they should have used 0.25-units. :(

If you want, I can fix the drawing for you.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


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Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #919 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:26:31 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

Whoever designed that layout in keyboard-layout-editor.com used 0.5-units between the sections (alpha-nav-numpad), when they should have used 0.25-units. :(

If you want, I can fix the drawing for you.

Yes please, I am getting a bit confused by it now!

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #920 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:41:25 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

Whoever designed that layout in keyboard-layout-editor.com used 0.5-units between the sections (alpha-nav-numpad), when they should have used 0.25-units. :(

If you want, I can fix the drawing for you.

Yes please, I am getting a bit confused by it now!

Sent you my email address in a PM.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #921 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 11:50:49 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

Whoever designed that layout in keyboard-layout-editor.com used 0.5-units between the sections (alpha-nav-numpad), when they should have used 0.25-units. :(

If you want, I can fix the drawing for you.

Yes please, I am getting a bit confused by it now!

Sent you my email address in a PM.

Thanks! Cant wait to get this sorted!
« Last Edit: Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:02:40 by the pokemon kid »

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #922 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 13:08:58 »
is the site down?

Looking into why the site is down.  We had a maintenance last night.  I will try to get it back up asap...

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #923 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 13:20:17 »
is the site down?

Looking into why the site is down.  We had a maintenance last night.  I will try to get it back up asap...

the site is back up.  after the maintenance some routers go stuck and we had to reboot them.  thx for letting me know...

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #924 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 13:59:29 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

Whoever designed that layout in keyboard-layout-editor.com used 0.5-units between the sections (alpha-nav-numpad), when they should have used 0.25-units. :(

If you want, I can fix the drawing for you.

Ouch.  Thats a pretty big oversight on keyboard-layout-editor.com.  That means that all the resets are wrong.  JD can you confirm it is 0.25 units between the arrow cluster section and the numpad?  I will do a pull request for the keyboard-layout-editor.com to fix that issue (hopefully he will include my change).

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #925 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:03:27 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

Whoever designed that layout in keyboard-layout-editor.com used 0.5-units between the sections (alpha-nav-numpad), when they should have used 0.25-units. :(

If you want, I can fix the drawing for you.

Ouch.  Thats a pretty big oversight on keyboard-layout-editor.com.  That means that all the resets are wrong.  JD can you confirm it is 0.25 units between the arrow cluster section and the numpad?  I will do a pull request for the keyboard-layout-editor.com to fix that issue (hopefully he will include my change).

Actually, it's not even that, exactly. Those might be close enough to work, but the spacing between the number row and F-row, and between the alphas and nav cluster, isn't exactly fractions of a unit.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


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Offline Dihedral

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #926 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:19:51 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

That's really unlucky. Feel for ya :/

Offline Jason_IRL

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #927 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 20:38:38 »
is the site down?

Looking into why the site is down.  We had a maintenance last night.  I will try to get it back up asap...

the site is back up.  after the maintenance some routers go stuck and we had to reboot them.  thx for letting me know...

don't mean to be a nuisance, but it appears the site may still be down.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #928 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 20:39:41 »
is the site down?

Looking into why the site is down.  We had a maintenance last night.  I will try to get it back up asap...

the site is back up.  after the maintenance some routers go stuck and we had to reboot them.  thx for letting me know...

don't mean to be a nuisance, but it appears the site may still be down.
I will check once the baby is asleep.

Offline evangs

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #929 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 20:45:25 »
http://builder.swillkb.com/ appears to be down again :(

Offline heedpantsnow

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #930 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 20:50:23 »
Take your time Swill. Family first bro.
I'm back.

Espresso machine overhaul: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78261.0

Carbon Fiber keyboard base: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54825

Offline Jason_IRL

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #931 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 21:34:45 »
is the site down?

Looking into why the site is down.  We had a maintenance last night.  I will try to get it back up asap...

the site is back up.  after the maintenance some routers go stuck and we had to reboot them.  thx for letting me know...

don't mean to be a nuisance, but it appears the site may still be down.
I will check once the baby is asleep.

you rock swill!

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #932 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 21:36:15 »
is the site down?

Looking into why the site is down.  We had a maintenance last night.  I will try to get it back up asap...

the site is back up.  after the maintenance some routers go stuck and we had to reboot them.  thx for letting me know...

don't mean to be a nuisance, but it appears the site may still be down.
I will check once the baby is asleep.

you rock swill!
It should be back up now. Had to reconfigure some networking because some network flakeyness after the maintenance.

Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #933 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 07:18:13 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

That's really unlucky. Feel for ya :/

As long as it gets sorted and doesnt happen again for someone else. Its annoying that it happened but I did budget into there being an issue with the plate. I was more thinking a manufacturing tollerences but I will have another go at this. I would like to thank JDCarpe for his help though!

Offline Dihedral

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #934 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 07:41:15 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

That's really unlucky. Feel for ya :/

As long as it gets sorted and doesnt happen again for someone else. Its annoying that it happened but I did budget into there being an issue with the plate. I was more thinking a manufacturing tollerences but I will have another go at this. I would like to thank JDCarpe for his help though!

You could chop off the navigation part and make a 60% board. Are you using cutout 2? If so, how do alps work with it (if you have any)

Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #935 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 07:45:51 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

That's really unlucky. Feel for ya :/

As long as it gets sorted and doesnt happen again for someone else. Its annoying that it happened but I did budget into there being an issue with the plate. I was more thinking a manufacturing tollerences but I will have another go at this. I would like to thank JDCarpe for his help though!

You could chop off the navigation part and make a 60% board. Are you using cutout 2? If so, how do alps work with it (if you have any)

I am using switch type 3 but you do have a very good point! I might make a little one! Thanks for the suggestion! At least I have a use for it now!

Offline DrHubblePhD

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #936 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 09:21:08 »
can someone please share with me the raw code for a winkeyless 84 key layout?

Offline abjr

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #937 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 10:31:00 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

Whoever designed that layout in keyboard-layout-editor.com used 0.5-units between the sections (alpha-nav-numpad), when they should have used 0.25-units. :(]

If you want, I can fix the drawing for you.

Is this universally true or just for TKL? Looking at my 101 and 104 keyboards some are ~0.5 and others are ~0.25 units.
« Last Edit: Sat, 28 March 2015, 10:36:04 by abjr »
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Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #938 on: Sat, 28 March 2015, 12:55:59 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

Whoever designed that layout in keyboard-layout-editor.com used 0.5-units between the sections (alpha-nav-numpad), when they should have used 0.25-units. :(]

If you want, I can fix the drawing for you.

Is this universally true or just for TKL? Looking at my 101 and 104 keyboards some are ~0.5 and others are ~0.25 units.

I am not sure, but it effects the arrow key section and the button section to the right of the F row. They are all a little too far across to the right...

Online suicidal_orange

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #939 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 16:21:05 »
Thanks for making this swill, I never thought designing a plate could be so easy!

I just ran a design through hoping to do a combined ISO/ANSI layout but on closer inspection the right side of the ANSI enter stabiliser has no plate at the top, so I guess we have to use PCB mount stabilisers?  I was hoping to test the layout with a handwired matrix, but that's not going to work very well so I may need a rethink :))
                               
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Online ideus

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #940 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 16:23:06 »
Thanks for making this swill, I never thought designing a plate could be so easy!

I just ran a design through hoping to do a combined ISO/ANSI layout but on closer inspection the right side of the ANSI enter stabiliser has no plate at the top, so I guess we have to use PCB mount stabilisers?  I was hoping to test the layout with a handwired matrix, but that's not going to work very well so I may need a rethink :))


ISO/ANSI plates have to use PCB Cherry style stabilizers.

Online suicidal_orange

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #941 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 16:26:49 »
Thanks for making this swill, I never thought designing a plate could be so easy!

I just ran a design through hoping to do a combined ISO/ANSI layout but on closer inspection the right side of the ANSI enter stabiliser has no plate at the top, so I guess we have to use PCB mount stabilisers?  I was hoping to test the layout with a handwired matrix, but that's not going to work very well so I may need a rethink :))


ISO/ANSI plates have to use PCB Cherry style stabilizers.

Thanks for confirming, even if it's not the answer I was hoping for :)
                               
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #942 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 18:35:25 »
Thanks for making this swill, I never thought designing a plate could be so easy!

I just ran a design through hoping to do a combined ISO/ANSI layout but on closer inspection the right side of the ANSI enter stabiliser has no plate at the top, so I guess we have to use PCB mount stabilisers?  I was hoping to test the layout with a handwired matrix, but that's not going to work very well so I may need a rethink :))


ISO/ANSI plates have to use PCB Cherry style stabilizers.

Thanks for confirming, even if it's not the answer I was hoping for :)
Yes. Traditionally this is the case. However, if you pick up a 2 unit enabler PCB you can PCB mount the stab and still hand wire.   If you end up wanting to go that route, pm me your address and I will mail you one.

Online joey

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #943 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 15:45:11 »
Hitting a lot of internal server errors right now :/

[{y:2.5,w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{w:1.5},"|\n\\"],
[{w:1.75},"Caps Lock","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/",{w:2.75},"Shift"],
[{w:1.25},"Ctrl",{w:1.25},"Win",{w:1.25},"Alt",{w:6.25},"",{w:1.25},"Alt",{w:1.25},"Win",{w:1.25},"Menu",{w:1.25},"Ctrl"]

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #944 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 15:48:49 »
can someone please share with me the raw code for a winkeyless 84 key layout?

Code: [Select]
["Esc",{x:1},"F1","F2","F3","F4",{x:0.5},"F5","F6","F7","F8",{x:0.5},"F9","F10","F11","F12",{x:0.25},"PrtSc","Scroll Lock","Pause\nBreak"],
[{y:0.5},"~\n`","!\n1","@\n2","#\n3","$\n4","%\n5","^\n6","&\n7","*\n8","(\n9",")\n0","_\n-","+\n=",{w:2},"Backspace",{x:0.25},"Insert","Home","PgUp"],
[{w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{w:1.5},"|\n\\",{x:0.25},"Delete","End","PgDn"],
[{w:1.75},"Caps Lock","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/",{w:2.75},"Shift",{x:1.25},"↑"],
[{w:1.5},"Ctrl",{x:1,w:1.5},"Alt",{w:7},"",{w:1.5},"Win",{x:1,w:1.5},"Ctrl",{x:0.25},"←","↓","→"]

Caveat: You will need to manually adjust the spacing between key sections to fit whatever case you are using.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #945 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 15:50:49 »
is the site down?

Yeh, the site is down! And right when I need it  :))

I received my plate through the post. I used this tool to get it made, however the ISO 105 without the number pad doesnt fit my TKL case... Am I doing something wrong? from the printscreen button, insert, delete and left arrow across to the right are off. They are 5mm off. Should I just reduce the X axis in keyboard layout manager by 5mm for these keys? Would this work?

Whoever designed that layout in keyboard-layout-editor.com used 0.5-units between the sections (alpha-nav-numpad), when they should have used 0.25-units. :(]

If you want, I can fix the drawing for you.

Is this universally true or just for TKL? Looking at my 101 and 104 keyboards some are ~0.5 and others are ~0.25 units.

Nope, there is no universal standard. It varies from keyboard to keyboard. Also, the measurements aren't exact multiples or fractions of a unit on most modern keyboards. :(
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Online suicidal_orange

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #946 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 17:18:12 »
Thanks for making this swill, I never thought designing a plate could be so easy!

I just ran a design through hoping to do a combined ISO/ANSI layout but on closer inspection the right side of the ANSI enter stabiliser has no plate at the top, so I guess we have to use PCB mount stabilisers?  I was hoping to test the layout with a handwired matrix, but that's not going to work very well so I may need a rethink :))


ISO/ANSI plates have to use PCB Cherry style stabilizers.

Thanks for confirming, even if it's not the answer I was hoping for :)
Yes. Traditionally this is the case. However, if you pick up a 2 unit enabler PCB you can PCB mount the stab and still hand wire.   If you end up wanting to go that route, pm me your address and I will mail you one.

Awesome, thanks!  Not sure what's happening yet but I will bear this in mind.

Portable stabilisers though... surely there is something more exciting to do with them than just hiding them under a plate?
                               
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #947 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 17:39:09 »
Hitting a lot of internal server errors right now :/

[{y:2.5,w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{w:1.5},"|\n\\"],
[{w:1.75},"Caps Lock","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/",{w:2.75},"Shift"],
[{w:1.25},"Ctrl",{w:1.25},"Win",{w:1.25},"Alt",{w:6.25},"",{w:1.25},"Alt",{w:1.25},"Win",{w:1.25},"Menu",{w:1.25},"Ctrl"]

I will look into it. Thx.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #948 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 20:46:20 »
Hitting a lot of internal server errors right now :/

Code: [Select]
[{y:2.5,w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{w:1.5},"|\n\\"],
[{w:1.75},"Caps Lock","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/",{w:2.75},"Shift"],
[{w:1.25},"Ctrl",{w:1.25},"Win",{w:1.25},"Alt",{w:6.25},"",{w:1.25},"Alt",{w:1.25},"Win",{w:1.25},"Menu",{w:1.25},"Ctrl"]

I just tried this layout and it worked fine.  Not sure why you want 2.5 units of space at the top of the plate though.

I would suggest you use this layout instead to remove it if that is a mistake.

Code: [Select]
[{w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{w:1.5},"|\n\\"],
[{w:1.75},"Caps Lock","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/",{w:2.75},"Shift"],
[{w:1.25},"Ctrl",{w:1.25},"Win",{w:1.25},"Alt",{w:6.25},"",{w:1.25},"Alt",{w:1.25},"Win",{w:1.25},"Menu",{w:1.25},"Ctrl"]

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #949 on: Mon, 30 March 2015, 20:59:21 »
Hitting a lot of internal server errors right now :/

It appears that there was an error and it hung a couple instances, so it the resources got stuck being consumed.  The 2 hour timeout cleared the stuck instances and it fixed itself. 

The LXC containers are a good idea and they are working, but they are not really setup in a 'production' configuration.  I am building them and tearing them down on the fly, so its a bit of a fragile system if anything goes wrong.  Right now it will fix itself every 2 hours if it gets into a bad way.  I could potentially bring that down to like an hour to make it fix itself quicker, but thats just the way it is right now.

I am looking at potentially rebuilding the entire tool from scratch in an entirely different language and with an entirely different core engine.  We will see, I am still determining the feasibility.  The new system would be much more suitable for the types of workloads I am doing, but I would be giving up some features.  I would be getting rid of all of the export formats other than SVG and DXF.  I would focus on making those two formats work perfectly, but I would be removing all the 3D solid drawings.  This means that I would remove compatibility with 3D printers (which I am not too happy about).  Even if I do launch a new version of the code, I will keep the old one up on a different URL for people who want to do 3d printing.  We will see.  I still need to do a bunch of prototyping and I also have to extend the cad engine I am looking at to support floating point precision (it is currently only using ints).  I can make it work by doing it larger and scaling down, but I am going to try to add floating point number support as a core feature.  :P