Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions  (Read 631505 times)

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Offline jbondeson

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #100 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:22:36 »
Quote
Although previous studies showed an improve-
ment in wrist posture (Hedge and Powers, 1995;
Marklin and Simoneau, 2001; Smith et al., 1998),
forearm pronation (Smith et al., 1998; Zecevic et
al., 2000), and tendon travel (Treaster and Marras,
2000), when typing on ergonomic keyboards
compared to conventional one, the replacement
costs and early decreased performance become
considerations.
To which I raise you Carpal tunnel syndrome due to keyboarding and mouse tasks: a review which has in its conclusion:

Quote
Although there is strong evidence of a causal relation between keyboarding and pointing devices on the one hand and CTS occurrence on the other, the role of every single design element is not known. Once these answers are provided, the primary aim of the environmental changes will certainly be the reduction of the risk factors regardless of the associated financial costs as these are going to be one-time expenditures.

No one has shown the link of wrist position etc. to RSI/CTS.

Offline davkol

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #101 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:31:21 »
See Rempel 2007. Besides, CTS is only one specific kind of keyboard-related issues.

Offline Elocutive

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #102 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:47:41 »
I would rather use plastic cases than low profile metal cases. They are hideous
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #103 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:05:26 »
No one has shown the link of wrist position etc. to RSI/CTS.
I’ll grant you that most studies about keyboard ergonomics are crap: small sample sizes and selection biases in typists studied, insufficient training time, short study times, poorly controlled confounding factors, etc. etc.

However, your blanket statement is too strong IMO. Changes in typing posture (or e.g. the adoption of a new keyboard) often makes a dramatic difference in discomfort, both for people with severe RSI, and for people first starting to exhibit mild symptoms. There are plenty of people on this forum who can attest to that from direct experience, and at least a handful of studies that put together some of the pieces, if imperfectly.

Considering how many people spend hours a day typing, it would be great if someone would spend a few million dollars on a longer term research program, with better study design and a more comprehensive plan, instead of just getting occasional scattered studies done by a grad student here or a grad student there, with little cooperation or support, etc. Unfortunately I don’t personally know anyone with the resources and inclination to fix that.
« Last Edit: Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:07:12 by jacobolus »

Offline ynrozturk

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #104 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:12:34 »
I think Clacks looks stupid and it amuses me when I see people paying tons of cash for them.
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Offline Oobly

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #105 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:13:17 »
yeah i don't like SA either.

i tried the filco sphericals and had to remove them, because i started having wrist pains due to the unnatural angle, because the caps are too damn high :)

a wrist rest partially alleviates this, but it's just additional clutter on the table i don't really need, so i'll stick to my cherry profile thick PBT caps without the need of a wristrest.



You should raise your wrists off the desk when typing.

SA profile is awesome. The most solid, heavy, piano-like, retro-modern, beautiful profile ever.

And it looks fantastic on 60% boards.

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Offline neun_sechs_zwei

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #106 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:15:54 »
So much hate in this thread.  :'(  You can like something unpopular too, doesn't always need to be negative.  :P

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I LOVE all sorts of keyboards.  I may love some more than others, but there isn't much that I don't like.

I hear you. These keyboards are generally unergonomic useless pieces of ****e but I like them anyway.

Offline divito

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #107 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:17:07 »
You should raise your wrists off the desk when typing.

Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.

I've never really understood how people get RSI/CTS from keyboarding, but if they have that notion of holding their hands up in the air, I can kind of see it.
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Offline appleonama

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #108 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:20:48 »
I would rather use plastic cases than low profile metal cases. They are hideous
blasphemy

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #109 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:23:51 »
The important thing is significant weight. The more solid the thing that you are pushing against, the easier and more accurate the pushing is. Actually bolting the keyboard to the table would be ideal.

That is also why the Evoluent mouse is the worst mouse in the universe.
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Support for this proposition is, if anything, more emotional than intellectual. I’ve long been struck by the intensity of right-wing anger against relatively trivial regulations, like bans on phosphates in detergent and efficiency standards for light bulbs. It’s the principle of the thing: Many on the right are enraged at any suggestion that their actions should take other people’s welfare into account. This rage is sometimes portrayed as love of freedom. But people who insist on the right to pollute are notably unbothered by, say, federal agents tear-gassing peaceful protesters. What they call “freedom” is actually absence of responsibility.
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #110 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:27:19 »
Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.
Your chair is too low and/or your desk is too high.

Offline divito

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #111 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 17:53:48 »
Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.
Your chair is too low and/or your desk is too high.

? Arms are at 90 degrees.
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #112 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:22:47 »
Again, have to disagree. Consistently using muscles and tendons to support wrists and arms (on top of the flexing involved with typing), will lead to RSI much faster than comfortably resting them on a desk or wrist rest in which you're only primarily moving your fingers.
Your chair is too low and/or your desk is too high.
? Arms are at 90 degrees.
If you’re resting your palms on your desk while typing, then either you’re putting incredible strain on your wrists, or your desk/chair are at a bad height, or both.

If you are using a standard-layout keyboard and resting your palms on a palmrest while typing, then same story. Unless you have a palmrest which is very high, taller than any that I’ve ever seen in person or in pictures. (If this is the case you should have said so up front.)

Palmrests are for resting your palms on when you are not actively typing. If you are resting your palms on them while actively typing, you very likely have poor typing posture. Please don’t do this if you have a job that requires many hours of continuous typing (e.g. writing a novel, working as a programmer, or transcribing speech); you’ll injure yourself.

If you’re using a Kinesis Advantage, Maltron, or similar keyboard, then you might be fine. (But again, you should have said so up front.)
« Last Edit: Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:27:57 by jacobolus »

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #113 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:40:55 »
* Alps' Black and Cream force curve with its high actuation point and drop is at fault for rubber domes getting popular.
Can you explain this one? What do you mean “at fault”? As far as I can tell the “popularity” of rubber dome keyboards in the 90s and after is entirely about (a) low cost, and perhaps (b) quiet sound.
I meant popular among manufacturers, sorry.
"Hey, this cheaper switch feels just like the more expensive Alps switch. It is cheaper and good enough. Let's use it.".
That is probably how it started. Then there was even more cost-cutting. Not all rubber domes are bad.
« Last Edit: Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:51:51 by Findecanor »
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #114 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:51:25 »
"Hey, this cheaper switch feels just like the more expensive Alps switch. It is cheaper and good enough. Let's use it."
I guarantee you that whatever people inside HP, IBM, Dell, etc. etc. decided to start shipping rubber domes with their keyboards did not have the feel of black Alps switches anywhere near their decision process.

If you want to insult black Alps switches, go right ahead, but it’s ridiculous to invent a story about it.

FWIW, I don’t especially like rubber domes, and I also don’t especially like black Alps switches, but IMO they don’t feel remotely similar to each-other.

I think you’re projecting. Along the lines of: “Here’s this thing I don’t like, and here’s this other thing I don’t like. They must be the same.”

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #115 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 18:56:44 »
FWIW, I don’t especially like rubber domes, and I also don’t especially like black Alps switches, but IMO they don’t feel remotely similar to each-other.
Ok, maybe not Black Alps, but Cream Alps have been mistaken for better rubber domes many times ... and Black Alps have a somewhat similar force curve.

I think you’re projecting. Along the lines of: “Here’s this thing I don’t like, and here’s this other thing I don’t like. They must be the same.”
That's your opinion. :-þ
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Offline qihqi

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #116 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:03:54 »
I love Truly Ergonomic keyboard and own two.

Offline dusan

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #117 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:09:21 »
...
Standard QWERTY layout keyboards in general - horizontal stagger design is to allow levers to reach the hammer mechanism. QWERTY character layout is to prevent neighbouring keys being pressed too rapidly in succession and jamming the gravity returned hammers.... Oh wait.. WE DON'T HAVE THESE THINGS ANY MORE. Yet the design has persisted, due to being familiar. It's not logical, it's not comfortable or ergonomic, it's not even symmetrical or aesthetic. The ONLY reason to use it is familiarity. When the only reason you still do something a certain way is tradition, it's time to make a change, based on more current requirements.

I agree.

This is my suggestion to keyboard manufacturers:

a) a TKL keyboard. (Attached.)

b) a 7x14 keyboard (Attached.)

To users: if you don't want to sacrifice any of your skills with the standard keyboard, or you already own an expensive TKL case, expensive keycaps, rare switches etc and don't want to waste more money, choose a). Otherwise, chose b).

Edit: I'm sorry I couldn't post attachements. Internal server error.
« Last Edit: Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:45:23 by dusan »
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #118 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:17:50 »
Ok, maybe not Black Alps, but Cream Alps have been mistaken for better rubber domes many times ...
I can definitely imagine that as a quick first impression, since they have a springy/mushy stroke bottom. I think it’d be hard to sustain that impression after a few minutes of use.

I think of a Alps cream switch as basically a slightly better version of an MX clear switch with an o-ring installed. In both cases, the switches would benefit substantially from a bit sharper/snappier tactile feel, and from a lighter spring.

It’s possible to mod cream Alps switches into something quite nice by replacing the spring (or cutting a few loops off), and bending the tactile leaf a bit or replacing it with a more tactile one.

Matias definitely has the best unmodded switch of this general concept.

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #119 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:21:07 »
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.
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Offline hwood34

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #120 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:29:42 »
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
well now hold on lets not get carried away. Some of us prefer not to have the sharp edge of the spacebar digging into our thumb
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #121 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:30:49 »
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****. [...]
2. SA the same way is horrendeous. [...]
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, [...]
4. Browns is the best popular switch [...]
7. IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly,
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.
Judging from your criteria, I’m guessing you use a Cherry G80-3850 with the LEDs removed and the logo painted over. Nailed to a block of wood to avoid too low a profile.

But seriously, I’m really not sure there are any keyboards you’d be satisfied with, if you need all of:
No colors anywhere, no backlight, ISO layout, no logos, included numpad, no extra space below the F keys, tall and steeply angled keyboard with wrist rest, low-profile cylindrical keycaps.

Maybe the Sun Type 4 would work for you?


Oh wait, I figured it out:

« Last Edit: Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:55:37 by jacobolus »

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #122 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:35:56 »
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.

So...you hate everything about mechanical keyboards.   :))

Offline heedpantsnow

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #123 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 19:36:26 »

One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.

What profile do you like?  DCS?
I'm back.

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Offline tbc

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #124 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:18:50 »

3. i truly see no point in linear switches, just stick to rubberdome.


This is the most cringeworthy post I have read all day. Then I realized demik is trolling everyone.

he's right though.
paying money for linears is like paying money for air.

ps

why do people think novelties are used for typing?  do people think that clack collectors actually type on them?

they're just minisculptures tht happen to fit on keyboard switches.

« Last Edit: Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:21:54 by tbc »
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Offline ynrozturk

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #125 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:25:26 »
Having one on ESC is fine, but having more than that just looks like you're 12 years old.
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Offline Flyersfan1

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #126 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:29:31 »
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

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Offline dante

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #127 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:40:52 »
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.

Offline Flyersfan1

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #128 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:42:06 »
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.
Me too! How are you liking the v60 with Matias switches??
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Offline HPE1000

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #129 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:42:38 »
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.
Thats a thing? Link! I suddenly want a matias keyboard.

Offline dante

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #130 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 20:43:15 »
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I'm OK with them.  Looking forward to trying Matias new dampened linear Alps coming out in January.
Me too! How are you liking the v60 with Matias switches??

Matias/Signature Plastics keycaps can't come soon enough.  Not entirely satisfied with the stock keycaps...

KBP really needs to roll out Tai Hao's as stock.

Offline dusan

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #131 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 21:23:07 »
I like back lighting, but I hate the way manufacturers use it.

Back lighting should be used to guide people, not to fool them.

Every key should have a number of independent LEDs (each for one symbol under the key). Two would be the bare minimum, four would be better, and eight would be ideal. And monochromatic LEDs would suffice.

Manufacturers have chosen the opposite way -- a single full-rainbow-colored LED under every key. I hate it.

I won't spend $200 for such a backlit keyboard. A lamp set or a Christmas tree would do it better.
« Last Edit: Fri, 07 November 2014, 21:32:44 by dusan »
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Offline AuRinBei

  • Posts: 161
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #132 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 21:50:15 »
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.


I want to fight you.
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Offline yasuo

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #133 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 23:22:04 »
Linear is really nice espicially black or 60g up red is not smooth at all its like press bolpein without spring
the only i dont like boring linear clicky wouldbe good
i like tactile RD than grey ;D
i dont have many experience with kibord & easily intrested :-X
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Offline jonathanyu

  • Posts: 1353
  • Location: San Francisco,California
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #134 on: Fri, 07 November 2014, 23:42:53 »
1.  I love Cherry profile, but I don't hate OEM profile.

2.  I think SA profile is really ugly.

3.  Any keyboard smaller than 80% is unusable to me, but I think they are pretty.

4.  I think winkey and menu key is useless, so I prefer 84 keys.

5.  Artisan keycap on esc looks fine.  but i think filling the whole F-row with artisan keycaps is ugly.

6.  I think spacebar should be separated into two, just like the G80-5000.

7.  G80 is one of the best keyboard I have used.

8.  I like both Cherry abs and pbt, but I hate SP abs because of the rough surface.

9.  I think putting grave accent key and backslash should be in alpha keys color.

10.  I think F5-F8 should be in alpha keys color too.

11.  I modifiers keys in grey is much better than legend color.

12.  I don't like miami keycaps.

13.  I don't like bucking spring.... it just driving me crazy.

14.  I LOVE scooped F & J, I HATE bars or dot on F & J.

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3643
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #135 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 00:06:59 »
5.  Artisan keycap on esc looks fine.  but i think filling the whole F-row with artisan keycaps is ugly.
6.  I think spacebar should be separated into two, just like the G80-5000.
9.  I think putting grave accent key and backslash should be in alpha keys color.
10.  I think F5-F8 should be in alpha keys color too.
11.  I modifiers keys in grey is much better than legend color.
12.  I don't like miami keycaps.
These aren’t unpopular opinions. :P

Offline asgeirtj

  • Posts: 518
  • Location: Iceland
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #136 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 01:41:56 »
One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****. [...]
2. SA the same way is horrendeous. [...]
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, [...]
4. Browns is the best popular switch [...]
7. IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly,
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.
Judging from your criteria, I’m guessing you use a Cherry G80-3850 with the LEDs removed and the logo painted over. Nailed to a block of wood to avoid too low a profile.

But seriously, I’m really not sure there are any keyboards you’d be satisfied with, if you need all of:
No colors anywhere, no backlight, ISO layout, no logos, included numpad, no extra space below the F keys, tall and steeply angled keyboard with wrist rest, low-profile cylindrical keycaps.

Maybe the Sun Type 4 would work for you?
Show Image


Oh wait, I figured it out:
Show Image

Show Image


Regular space below the F keys is fine (for a work keyboard, need no space for sc2).  It's just extra space which is ugly like the g80-3000 has. Regular keyboards are fine, I have wasd v2 now and it fits my criteria pretty much.  I have  IKBC F104 coming in though which I will probably switch out the wasd for because of stabilizer issues with thick cherry caps, got gmk dolch incomin which I think looks pretty good (without the color pack). 

One of the most fun threads I've read, glad that my unpopular opinions maybe aren't that unpopular.  Mine. Hope no one takes offense :P

1. OEM profile fells and looks like ****.  I'd rather take a rubber dome with cherry profile than a mech with oem. Don't know how people can get into mechs when OEM are on most boards, If I weren't such a nerd and into researching things I wouldn't have tried cherry profile and would've just judge mechs as ****. 
2. SA the same way is horrendeous.  The angle is extreme and it looks so, so bad.
3. ISO is much more beautiful than ANSI, I used to despise the look of ANSI but I'm coming around as I get used to it.
4. Browns is the best popular switch
5. Red feels heavier than browns.  It is too heavy as and so is everything above.
6. Blues are way too loud and obnoxious.  People thinking that anyone would put up with that are insensitive. Any mech without o-rings is also too loud in most settings.
7. Buckling spring as well, IBMs and those old boards are way too loud and look like dog****.
8. Reversed spacebars look and feel like ****
9. Using a mech without a wrist rest is impossible
10. Using a keyboard without the stands up is impossible
11. 4mm is too much,  I use about 1.2mm dental bands for cherry and it's perfect. 1.5mm for oem.
12. Clack sound is annoying and cheap sounding. A mech clacking sounds cheaper than a rubber dome being pressed.
13. Click clacks, brobots and all those ornaments on boards look like ****.  What are you guys 12 year olds?
14. DSA feels like **** and is super ugly, the angle on it feels like it's against you, instead of a embracing cup, also the keys aren't angled towards you in different ways with different rows.
15. Boards with bright colors or a lot of different colors are ugly
16. Backlit is for 12 year olds.
17. Low profile cases are ugly
18. Using a standalone numpad with your keyboard is super uncomfortable and ugly.
19. Matias alps looks and sounds like ****.  Alps also sound like ****.
20. Blank keycaps are pretty ugly
21. Any logo on a keyboard looks bad.
22. Extra spacing between number and function row is disgusting.

What profile do you like?  DCS?

cherry
Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #137 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 01:51:48 »
* I think exposed switches are ugly, unless there are absolutely no borders. The keyboard shouldn't have a footprint larger than the keycaps if the switches are exposed. Super-wide borders with countersunk bolts/nuts... or even worse: bolt heads that are not countersunk are ugly as Elle.
Man must shape his tools lest they shape him
-- Arthur Miller

Offline AuRinBei

  • Posts: 161
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #138 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 02:20:29 »
Wow, there's a lot of distaste for linear switches around here.  :confused:

I don't think that many people here play games. I can see why people don't like them for typing. I mean, why wouldn't you want some kind of force feedback? But there are plenty of games where linear switches are preferable. There are even games where I don't prefer mechanical. I play Super Meat Boy and Super Hexagon with scissor switches, and I notice an improvement over blacks.
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Offline jacobolus

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  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #139 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 02:36:47 »
People don’t like typing on linear switches because tactile and audio feedback are incredibly helpful when typing (or doing anything else with a keyboard, frankly).

Personally I would be willing to type on linear switches, part of the time (not all the time), if the following conditions were met:
(1) relatively high actuation point – Cherry MX is a bit too low for me; on the other hand, total travel distance isn’t all that important in a linear switch, anything from 2.5–5mm is fine.
(2) the right amount of force required; with Cherry MX, this means swapping in aftermarket “korean” 62–67g springs, or possibly the springs from MX clear switches. Green Alps and white Hi-Tek “space invaders” are both pretty good, as are some tee mount Alps, and some of the linear switches from the 60s–70s (though I find many others to be too stiff).
(3) very smooth action: this takes either high quality plastics and and effective manufacturing process on the slider/housing surfaces, or a bunch of lubricant, or ideally both; among MX switches, the “vintage” type are okay, but the modern ones are unpleasantly scratchy
(4) great response to off-axis keypresses, with smooth action when pressed at any angle, and no wobble. Both MX and Alps switches are weak here, and I suspect Matias’s linear switches will be even weaker; space invaders are better, and I’m also partial to SMK “monterey” switches with the click leaves removed. The “super Alps” keyboard HaaTa has is probably the best example http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_Magnetic_Reed. I don’t have enough experience with various other vintage linear switches to judge all the rest. Lubricant helps improve this for most linear switches.
(5) A solenoid for audio/tactile feedback at switch actuation. This one is absolutely crucial for me. Linear switches with no feedback are just no fun to type on, but add a big loud solenoid, especially in a sturdy metal/wood case, and BAM, the fun is back.

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.
« Last Edit: Sat, 08 November 2014, 02:41:34 by jacobolus »

Offline yasuo

  • Posts: 976
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #140 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 02:53:38 »
(5) A solenoid for audio/tactile feedback at switch actuation. This one is absolutely crucial for me. Linear switches with no feedback are just no fun to type on, but add a big loud solenoid, especially in a sturdy metal/wood case, and BAM, the fun is back.

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.
i think beam spring have selenoid
how to add selenoid ?:D
Logitech MK220 Colemak DH
SplitSyml by Moz BlacksMx fuk blacks

2/3 8.5pm                                          in de la my september month ya da all get my fukka "fake message"

Offline Oobly

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #141 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 03:06:51 »
Here's another two:

All Signature Plastics keycaps except SA profile are too thin and light and not worth buying. DCS doubleshots weight less than 1g (0.8g for home row), SA doubleshots weigh 2g each. Unless you are using Blues.

But MX clicky switches, particularly Blues, are cheap sounding and irritating, so it's still not worth getting any SP caps other than SA profile.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline davkol

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #142 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 03:35:48 »
People don’t like typing on linear switches because tactile and audio feedback are incredibly helpful when typing (or doing anything else with a keyboard, frankly).

(…)

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.

That's you opinion, and it's very unpopular with me. >_<

I've picked linear (MX) switches over MX Clear and especially Alps for my newer boards, because (1) click annoys other people and I'm listening to music anyway; (2) I don't type all day, very few people actually do (and many of them would be better replaced by speech recognition), and riding the actuation point on linear switches is much nicer, when navigating through documents, switching windows, etc.

Offline notsonerd

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #143 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 03:50:42 »
1. Backlights on a keyboard look awesome and they help a lot under certain conditions.

2. 60% layouts have the sexiest look hands down.

3. Corsair's keyboards are built well and feel nice to type on. They're also among the best-looking. Waiting for 60%.

4. Keycap materials can be mixed on a keyboard so long as the keys you use most (alphabet) are in the material you prefer most.

5. Ergonomics play a big part in a typing experience. This is an indirect jab at the space-wasting full-sized keyboards. Now it's a direct jab.

6. Switch testers are way overrated and serve the purpose of a desk toy better than to help someone determine which switches they like.

7. Artisan keycaps are art. Most of them may not look that great to me, but I consider them art in their own right and the ones who make them as artists.

8. Reverse spacebar makes any standard layout keyboard look two times better.

9. There need to be more keyboards with analog media controls like Corsair's. Albeit, a more space-saving implementation would be preferred, but they're just so handy.

10. Cherry MX Browns and Reds kind of rock. People who say they don't type way too harshly. That said...

11. Any switch heavier than Browns or Reds are too heavy to type on properly.

12. Keyboard layouts other than QWERTY don't make life easier. Tried Dvorak. They're only for hipsters. I was a hipster once. This thread is full of hipsters, though, so...I guess I still am.

13. Keyboards with more than three radically different colors (other than RGB mods) look stupid and need to go back to the 80's.

14. Huge legends look hideous. What's the point of making them bigger than size 12 font?

15. There's no point to the Windows and Menu keys on a keyboard. Give me another Fn key or even a Pn for that customizeability.
« Last Edit: Sat, 08 November 2014, 04:18:16 by notsonerd »
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Offline davkol

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #144 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 04:00:54 »
13. Keyboards with more than three radically different colors (other than RGB mods) look stupid and need to go back to the 80's.
Nooooo!!! I don't want RGB backlighting on my Model M!

Offline AuRinBei

  • Posts: 161
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #145 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 04:04:53 »
People don’t like typing on linear switches because tactile and audio feedback are incredibly helpful when typing (or doing anything else with a keyboard, frankly).

Personally I would be willing to type on linear switches, part of the time (not all the time), if the following conditions were met:
(1) relatively high actuation point – Cherry MX is a bit too low for me; on the other hand, total travel distance isn’t all that important in a linear switch, anything from 2.5–5mm is fine.
(2) the right amount of force required; with Cherry MX, this means swapping in aftermarket “korean” 62–67g springs, or possibly the springs from MX clear switches. Green Alps and white Hi-Tek “space invaders” are both pretty good, as are some tee mount Alps, and some of the linear switches from the 60s–70s (though I find many others to be too stiff).
(3) very smooth action: this takes either high quality plastics and and effective manufacturing process on the slider/housing surfaces, or a bunch of lubricant, or ideally both; among MX switches, the “vintage” type are okay, but the modern ones are unpleasantly scratchy
(4) great response to off-axis keypresses, with smooth action when pressed at any angle, and no wobble. Both MX and Alps switches are weak here, and I suspect Matias’s linear switches will be even weaker; space invaders are better, and I’m also partial to SMK “monterey” switches with the click leaves removed. The “super Alps” keyboard HaaTa has is probably the best example http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_Magnetic_Reed. I don’t have enough experience with various other vintage linear switches to judge all the rest. Lubricant helps improve this for most linear switches.
(5) A solenoid for audio/tactile feedback at switch actuation. This one is absolutely crucial for me. Linear switches with no feedback are just no fun to type on, but add a big loud solenoid, especially in a sturdy metal/wood case, and BAM, the fun is back.

I suspect the proper type of tactile/clicky switch would be better for playing video games than a linear switch; for example, I think Alps plate spring switches would probably be quite effective. Then again, I don’t play video games, so maybe I’m not an effective judge.

Most MOBA and RTS players use blues or browns. There is really no downside to using them for those kinds of games. But most FPS players use reds or blacks. The reason for this is that it is much more important to be able to float the actuation point for very subtle movements in FPS games, and having a bump to go over makes that much harder. I tried for a long time to get used to browns, but I never really felt like I had very much control with them. Same with Topre. It's also important that the switch actuates and de-actuates at the same height (which makes blues really bad for FPS). Would a plate spring do that? It would be useful if it did. Although even if it did, the spring force would still sharply decrease at the actuation point as the beam collapses. It probably wouldn't be that hard to adjust to, but it's honestly not very hard to just learn where the actuation point is on a linear switch.
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Offline notsonerd

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #146 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 04:16:21 »
13. Keyboards with more than three radically different colors (other than RGB mods) look stupid and need to go back to the 80's.
Nooooo!!! I don't want RGB backlighting on my Model M!

I was referring to keycaps, but I'm the same way towards backlights.
KBParadise V60 with Cherry MX Browns | Corsair K60 with Cherry MX Reds

Offline katushkin

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #147 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 07:56:05 »
KAILH SWITCHES ARE ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD
Keyboard of the Month - May- Nominations

Can we get them to build the Alps ten feet higher and get Cherry to pay for it?
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Offline dante

  • Posts: 2553
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #148 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 08:27:56 »
KAILH SWITCHES ARE ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD

Someone needs to cause a paradox by putting Kailh's into a Cherry brand keyboard.

Offline azhdar

  • Praise the AZERTY god
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #149 on: Sat, 08 November 2014, 08:48:01 »
2.25 Lshift is blasphemy so is 2.75 Rshift