Dihedral 79 (80% Merged Ten Key board)

[Dihedral]

Dihedral 79

The Dihedral 79 is my optimum keyboard; removing the keys I don't need, and retaining those that I do; creating a compact keyboard that doesn't sacrifice usability while maintaining a minimal impact on desk space.

Based on a TKL design, the D-79 puts the f-keys behind a function layer to create a slim and attractive keyboard, while merging the num-pad into the navigation cluster to enable fast number input without a full-size keyboard. The D-79 also maintains the dedicated arrow keys that make the TKL format so attractive to many users, and splits the spacebar into two to minimise space wastage and to create a better positioned backspace.

If you are interested in seeing this board produced commercially or want to submit an idea or feedback, please don't hesitate to post here.

Progress so Far

• Design finalised (Thanks to ijprest's keyboard-layout-editor tool)
• Have plate designs (Thanks to jdcarpe for generously creating the .dxf files.)
• Have a quote for a plate, but would prefer to buy a few and sell some on. If you want a plate, please post in this thread.

Plate image:



Next Steps

• Get preliminary plates cut.
• Work out how case will be built: potentially an acrylic one like Matt3o's 'fox' custom keyboards.

Links

• D-79 in Keyboard Layout Editor
• Matt3o's guide on building a custom board.
• The original thread for this idea

Credits

ijprest for his keyboard-layout-editor
jdcarpe for creating the plate files

[vordep]

You could use the " other guy plate building tool" , ive already used it on my layoutits not user-friendly but it will work fairly well

[dimmu]

this might be asking for too much but i would prefer a version where the numpad is located on the leftside of the keyboard instead. 

[azhdar]

Interesting layout , have you considered replacing the delete key with Fn and putting the Delete on the Fn layer of the Backspace ?

[vordep]

this might be asking for too much but i would prefer a version where the numpad is located on the leftside of the keyboard instead. 

like this ? http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/c09efc02bfa6973fd4194408494f4784

[Liar]

this might be asking for too much but i would prefer a version where the numpad is located on the leftside of the keyboard instead.

Agreed 100%

Block on left side would be fantastic

[jdcarpe]

Reminds me a bit of TheFlyingRaccoon's LongCat Project.

Good luck with your build! Find your plate drawing attached.

[Dihedral]

this might be asking for too much but i would prefer a version where the numpad is located on the leftside of the keyboard instead.

Not at all. I was already planning to try that.

[Dihedral]

Reminds me a bit of TheFlyingRaccoon's LongCat Project.

Good luck with your build! Find your plate drawing attached.

I am speechless. Thanks so much!

[jdcarpe]

Reminds me a bit of TheFlyingRaccoon's LongCat Project.

Good luck with your build! Find your plate drawing attached.

I am speechless. Thanks so much!

You're welcome!

If you need something changed, just PM me.

Oh, and here's one with the numpad on the left...

[Dihedral]

Reminds me a bit of TheFlyingRaccoon's LongCat Project.

Good luck with your build! Find your plate drawing attached.

I am speechless. Thanks so much!

You're welcome!

If you need something changed, just PM me.

Oh, and here's one with the numpad on the left...

Great! I'll make sure to credit you in the OP.

[Dihedral]

Interesting layout , have you considered replacing the delete key with Fn and putting the Delete on the Fn layer of the Backspace ?

Not personally, as I use delete quite frequently and that would feel like an awkward place for Fn. The board will use a teensy though, so will be re-programmable.

[derezzed]

It looks like there's a rising trend in split space bar designs lately.  I love it.    This is one of the best layouts I've seen yet. 

Things I like: 
     re-purposed the traditional backspace key to the num pad key
     delete key in a more accessible location (may require an adjustment period to retrain fingers to avoid hitting delete when trying to hit space or backspace)
     TKL form factor that retains the num pad!
     of course, backspace key for left thumb (suck it, full-length space bar!)

Minor complaint that is not specific to your design:  Standard-sized shift keys seem like such a waste of real estate.   I know why the size of the right shift key is optimal for standard 80% and up layouts but it still bothers me.   It seems like the left shift could be safely split into 2 keys, with the left-most key becoming scroll lock [with your design (there's no need for a second scroll lock on keyboards that already have one)] or some other modifier. 

I am eager to see this keyboard get made.  The more I look at it, the more I like it. 

[Dihedral]

It looks like there's a rising trend in split space bar designs lately.  I love it.    This is one of the best layouts I've seen yet. 

Things I like: 
     re-purposed the traditional backspace key to the num pad key
     delete key in a more accessible location (may require an adjustment period to retrain fingers to avoid hitting delete when trying to hit space or backspace)
     TKL form factor that retains the num pad!
     of course, backspace key for left thumb (suck it, full-length space bar!)

Minor complaint that is not specific to your design:  Standard-sized shift keys seem like such a waste of real estate.   I know why the size of the right shift key is optimal for standard 80% and up layouts but it still bothers me.   It seems like the left shift could be safely split into 2 keys, with the left-most key becoming scroll lock [with your design (there's no need for a second scroll lock on keyboards that already have one)] or some other modifier. 

I am eager to see this keyboard get made.  The more I look at it, the more I like it.

Thanks for the feedback! I agree about the shift but begrugingly kept it so it will be easier to find keycaps.

[Dihedral]

Anyone interested in a Dihedral 79 plate? Even if just a few people go for it it could push price down a fair bit.

[jdcarpe]

Anyone interested in a Dihedral 79 plate? Even if just a few people go for it it could push price down a fair bit.

Are you planning on making a PCB for it? Or is this going to be strictly hand wired?

[Dihedral]

Anyone interested in a Dihedral 79 plate? Even if just a few people go for it it could push price down a fair bit.

Are you planning on making a PCB for it? Or is this going to be strictly hand wired?

i'm going to handwire, though if someone wanted to design a pcb i would be totally happy with that.

[jdcarpe]

Anyone interested in a Dihedral 79 plate? Even if just a few people go for it it could push price down a fair bit.

Are you planning on making a PCB for it? Or is this going to be strictly hand wired?

i'm going to handwire, though if someone wanted to design a pcb i would be totally happy with that.

The only reason I ask it that, I would definitely be interested, if only it supported some other layout options in the same form factor. I don't know that I could live with that spacebar arrangement, for instance, or I might like to have a 2-unit backspace, or a 1.75-unit right shift, etc. I could design you a plate that would cover those options, but the stabilizer holes wouldn't support plate mounting anymore, hence the necessity of a PCB.

[Dihedral]

Anyone interested in a Dihedral 79 plate? Even if just a few people go for it it could push price down a fair bit.

Are you planning on making a PCB for it? Or is this going to be strictly hand wired?

i'm going to handwire, though if someone wanted to design a pcb i would be totally happy with that.

The only reason I ask it that, I would definitely be interested, if only it supported some other layout options in the same form factor. I don't know that I could live with that spacebar arrangement, for instance, or I might like to have a 2-unit backspace, or a 1.75-unit right shift, etc. I could design you a plate that would cover those options, but the stabilizer holes wouldn't support plate mounting anymore, hence the necessity of a PCB.

If you want to build an alternate design i would be happy to add it into the OP. However, the point of my original post wasnt to start a massive group buy, just to see if it would be worthwhile getting five or ten plates instead of just one. This is still, in my mind, a small project so I can build my endgame board.

[jdcarpe]

Anyone interested in a Dihedral 79 plate? Even if just a few people go for it it could push price down a fair bit.

Are you planning on making a PCB for it? Or is this going to be strictly hand wired?

i'm going to handwire, though if someone wanted to design a pcb i would be totally happy with that.

The only reason I ask it that, I would definitely be interested, if only it supported some other layout options in the same form factor. I don't know that I could live with that spacebar arrangement, for instance, or I might like to have a 2-unit backspace, or a 1.75-unit right shift, etc. I could design you a plate that would cover those options, but the stabilizer holes wouldn't support plate mounting anymore, hence the necessity of a PCB.

If you want to build an alternate design i would be happy to add it into the OP. However, the point of my original post wasnt to start a massive group buy, just to see if it would be worthwhile getting five or ten plates instead of just one. This is still, in my mind, a small project so I can build my endgame board.

Yep, understood. It's a good project!

[Dihedral]

Anyone interested in a Dihedral 79 plate? Even if just a few people go for it it could push price down a fair bit.

Are you planning on making a PCB for it? Or is this going to be strictly hand wired?

i'm going to handwire, though if someone wanted to design a pcb i would be totally happy with that.

The only reason I ask it that, I would definitely be interested, if only it supported some other layout options in the same form factor. I don't know that I could live with that spacebar arrangement, for instance, or I might like to have a 2-unit backspace, or a 1.75-unit right shift, etc. I could design you a plate that would cover those options, but the stabilizer holes wouldn't support plate mounting anymore, hence the necessity of a PCB.

If you want to build an alternate design i would be happy to add it into the OP. However, the point of my original post wasnt to start a massive group buy, just to see if it would be worthwhile getting five or ten plates instead of just one. This is still, in my mind, a small project so I can build my endgame board.

Yep, understood. It's a good project!

thanks for the support. sorry if my post came off as rude, im kind of tired and finding it hard to string words together

[Melvang]

Just wondering, but is the split space bar setup possible on the Phantom?  Or did it not have those switch locations?  I know the numpad area can be done on the phantom, aka "7bit" layout.

[jdcarpe]

Just wondering, but is the split space bar setup possible on the Phantom?  Or did it not have those switch locations?  I know the numpad area can be done on the phantom, aka "7bit" layout.

Sorry for the OT, Dihedral, but I just want to quickly answer Melvang's question. The Phantom could not support the same bottom row as OP's design, because the switch locations for those keys are not present on the PCB. the closest thing with a split spacebar I could come up with for the Phantom is this: 1.25-1.25-1.25-2.00-1.00-1.50-1.00-2.00-1.25-1.25-1.25. That would require a custom plate to be made.

thanks for the support. sorry if my post came off as rude, im kind of tired and finding it hard to string words together

Didn't sound rude to me.

[Dihedral]

Just wondering, but is the split space bar setup possible on the Phantom?  Or did it not have those switch locations?  I know the numpad area can be done on the phantom, aka "7bit" layout.

Sorry for the OT, Dihedral, but I just want to quickly answer Melvang's question. The Phantom could not support the same bottom row as OP's design, because the switch locations for those keys are not present on the PCB. the closest thing with a split spacebar I could come up with for the Phantom is this: 1.25-1.25-1.25-2.00-1.00-1.50-1.00-2.00-1.25-1.25-1.25. That would require a custom plate to be made.

thanks for the support. sorry if my post came off as rude, im kind of tired and finding it hard to string words together

Didn't sound rude to me.

One other subtle difference is the lack of a 2u backspace, which phantom presumably does not support.

[jdcarpe]

One other subtle difference is the lack of a 2u backspace, which phantom presumably does not support.

The Phantom actually does support either a 2u key or 1u-1u keys in the backspace position. Again, plate dependent.

[Dihedral]

One other subtle difference is the lack of a 2u backspace, which phantom presumably does not support.

The Phantom actually does support either a 2u key or 1u-1u keys in the backspace position. Again, plate dependent.

TIL!

Also, updated OP

[Findecanor]

I see that the layout has two 2.5u keys in the bottom row for the Backspace and Space. That size of keycaps could be difficult to source.
Let me suggest 2.25 for Backspace and 2.75 for Space so that you can use the same keycap as left and right Shift. That would also put Delete a tiny bit closer to the left thumb.

[Dihedral]

I see that the layout has two 2.5u keys in the bottom row for the Backspace and Space. That size of keycaps could be difficult to source.
Let me suggest 2.25 for Backspace and 2.75 for Space so that you can use the same keycap as left and right Shift. That would also put Delete a tiny bit closer to the left thumb.

I can deal with sourcing the keys, but if the key size on the bottom row was asymmetrical it would look pretty awful.

[brimborion]

This is pretty neat.

For me, the problems I would maybe have; sometimes I hit backspace rapidly and my left thumb isn't as good for that as my right. Also, where the keypad enter is, mis-keying it when using the cursors would be more catastrophic than a key that doesn't say, submit a form or send an email.

[Dihedral]

This is pretty neat.

For me, the problems I would maybe have; sometimes I hit backspace rapidly and my left thumb isn't as good for that as my right. Also, where the keypad enter is, mis-keying it when using the cursors would be more catastrophic than a key that doesn't say, submit a form or send an email.

That's understandable, but I pretty much never mis-hit the arrow keys so this is essentially a non issue for me. I think the speed reduction in using left thumb is negated by the speed increase in not having to move your hands from the home row - which I much prefer as a feature.

[kulaan]

This is a pretty awesome layout. I can totally imagine myself using this. Just one question.

What is the function of the Num Lock key? I was under the impression the Nav Keys are under a function layer. Is it a Nav cluster until num lock is on? At which point the nav cluster is now under a function layer?

[Dihedral]

This is a pretty awesome layout. I can totally imagine myself using this. Just one question.

What is the function of the Num Lock key? I was under the impression the Nav Keys are under a function layer. Is it a Nav cluster until num lock is on? At which point the nav cluster is now under a function layer?

Yep, nav cluster unless num lock is on.

[Dihedral]

This is a pretty awesome layout. I can totally imagine myself using this. Just one question.

What is the function of the Num Lock key? I was under the impression the Nav Keys are under a function layer. Is it a Nav cluster until num lock is on? At which point the nav cluster is now under a function layer?

Oh, and welcome to GeekHack!

[kulaan]

Where would I be able to source 2.5 sized keys for Backspace and Spacebar?

[Dihedral]

Where would I be able to source 2.5 sized keys for Backspace and Spacebar?

I think WASD will be our best bet.

[Melvang]

Where would I be able to source 2.5 sized keys for Backspace and Spacebar?

2.5 unit is available from SP in SA and DCS profiles only and only in Row 4 but not space bar profile.

The shortest keys available in space bar profile is 4 unit in DSA and 4.5 unit in DCS.

http://www.keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/SAFamily.pdf

http://www.keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/DCSFamily.pdf

Again, SP does not have a mold for 2.5 unit in DSA.  The cheapest price I think I have heard for a new mold for SP is 3,000USD.

http://www.keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/DSAFamily.pdf

[Dihedral]

Where would I be able to source 2.5 sized keys for Backspace and Spacebar?

2.5 unit is available from SP in SA and DCS profiles only and only in Row 4 but not space bar profile.

The shortest keys available in space bar profile is 4 unit in DSA and 4.5 unit in DCS.

http://www.keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/SAFamily.pdf

http://www.keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/DCSFamily.pdf

Again, SP does not have a mold for 2.5 unit in DSA.  The cheapest price I think I have heard for a new mold for SP is 3,000USD.

http://www.keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/DSAFamily.pdf

DCS Row 4 looks like it would work perfectly well.

[thebornotaku]

derp, mispost.

[Dihedral]

derp, mispost.

Thanks for the thread publicity

[stoic-lemon]

This a really interesting project. I'm afraid I have nothing to offer but my wallet. I would really need some kind of case for it though.

[Dihedral]

This a really interesting project. I'm afraid I have nothing to offer but my wallet. I would really need some kind of case for it though.

Thanks for your support. Personally, I'm probably going to make a wooden case. If this gets successful then maybe some kind of group buy will be in order

[regack]

It's been a while since I was last here and poked at some projects, but this should work, and you can use this as a starting place.  I did change your 2.5 keys into 2.75 and adjusted the 1.25 down to 1.0 in order to make it easier.  I didn't even know there were 2.5 keys.  I know that's not what you wanted, but I've attached all the relevant files so you can make adjustments.





This should demonstrate how it could be built with the matrix provided.  It's not the cleanest, the matrix is not exactly clean, since I jammed things in where there wasn't space... I was working from another project I was dabbling with a long time ago, and I just adjusted it really quick to be closer to your layout.  There is an LED under CAPS and the center key/spacebar to use as... an indicator? Technically there is still one pin free on the atmega.




Edit: I removed the zip file, because I realized that the diode footprints are old and wrong - I'll update it and post a new file back in.

Edit2: see this post for the updated zip file.

[Dihedral]

It's been a while since I was last here and poked at some projects, but this should work, and you can use this as a starting place.  I did change your 2.5 keys into 2.75 and adjusted the 1.25 down to 1.0 in order to make it easier.  I didn't even know there were 2.5 keys.  I know that's not what you wanted, but I've attached all the relevant files so you can make adjustments.


(Attachment Link)


This should demonstrate how it could be built with the matrix provided.  It's not the cleanest, the matrix is not exactly clean, since I jammed things in where there wasn't space... I was working from another project I was dabbling with a long time ago, and I just adjusted it really quick to be closer to your layout.  There is an LED under CAPS and the center key/spacebar to use as... an indicator? Technically there is still one pin free on the atmega.


(Attachment Link)

This is great! Thank you! I poked into pcb design but was overwhelmed. What software should I use to adjust the design?

[stoic-lemon]

Interest intensifies.

[regack]

This is great! Thank you! I poked into pcb design but was overwhelmed. What software should I use to adjust the design?

This was all done in KiCad - Build 2013-02-13 BZR 3947.

I fixed all the diode footprints in this version :

[SpAmRaY]

This is great! Thank you! I poked into pcb design but was overwhelmed. What software should I use to adjust the design?

This was all done in KiCad - Build 2013-02-13 BZR 3947.

I fixed all the diode footprints in this version :

Good to see you around regack! Hope life is treating you well.

[SL89]

I totally forgot about this thread, i'm glad to see this moving on, i saw a similar layout a while ago but this one looks the most compelling. i usually favor the standard spacebar, but after thinking about it i can see why some people would enjoy this, and i think i'd like to give it a whirl at some point. Either way, thanks for working on this, projects like this are always very interesting.

[jdcarpe]

This is great! Thank you! I poked into pcb design but was overwhelmed. What software should I use to adjust the design?

This was all done in KiCad - Build 2013-02-13 BZR 3947.

I fixed all the diode footprints in this version :

Wow, has it really been two years?!

Welcome back, regack! We've missed you.

[Dihedral]

I totally forgot about this thread, i'm glad to see this moving on, i saw a similar layout a while ago but this one looks the most compelling. i usually favor the standard spacebar, but after thinking about it i can see why some people would enjoy this, and i think i'd like to give it a whirl at some point. Either way, thanks for working on this, projects like this are always very interesting.

Thanks for your support. It's good to see people taking an interest in it.

[regack]

Well, I know nobody asked for this... but...





... I thought I would try re-doing it for Cherry MX + Alps


(it's an addiction)