Most valuable retro keyboards?

[nubbinator]

Personally, I'd rather see all the 4704 77-key boards in the world shredded into oblivion than see an enthusiast pay $2000 for one.

Since I'm not about to pay $2K for a 77, their availability at that price is no different to me than their nonexistence.

At least at that price they'll be around, and maybe at some point it'll come down.

My point exactly -- so what if someone wants $5000 for a Model M with a dillithium crystal inside it? If someone else is willing to pay that price, who am I to scold them or the seller for a transaction that doesn't involve me? I expect jdcarpe will walk back that comment about ''shredding" an entire species of keyboard for the sake of "the community."

The point is that we shouldn't be encouraging or enabling profiteering.  Just because something is uncommon or an important part of keyboard history doesn't mean someone should be profiteering off of it. 

And if you're going to argue for keyboard history, then this keyboard should have sold months ago for $500. It appears to be a Fujitsu leaf spring keyboard, something that is historically important, but no one has rescued it.

[1391406]

As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.

[Doyniish]

M15's bring in a good penny, no?

[Snowdog993]

I am so disappointed in this thread.  Perhaps I should do something else today.  Maybe there is something good on TV to watch.

[jdcarpe]

I am so disappointed in this thread.  Perhaps I should do something else today.  Maybe there is something good on TV to watch.

Honestly, if you can't bear to read some debating from differing points of view, maybe GH isn't a great way for you to  spend your time. Just being honest with you. There are some strong opinions here, and some who aren't afraid to say what they think, and stand behind their words. Some areas of the site are more lighthearted, if you want to confine your browsing to those areas. No offense to you, just telling it like it is.

[nubbinator]

As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.

Sure, but you get price creep and price inflation from people who either sell at inflated prices.  Given that we're a community of enthusiasts, we should be encouraging fair prices that keep the market prices reasonable.

[Snowdog993]

Honestly, if you can't bear to read some debating from differing points of view, maybe GH isn't a great way for you to  spend your time. Just being honest with you. There are some strong opinions here, and some who aren't afraid to say what they think, and stand behind their words. Some areas of the site are more lighthearted, if you want to confine your browsing to those areas. No offense to you, just telling it like it is.

None taken at all JD!  It's all good. 

[jacobolus]

Personally, I'd rather see all the 4704 77-key boards in the world shredded into oblivion than see an enthusiast pay $2000 for one.

You’re crazy. Do you feel the same way about, say, Van Gogh paintings? Perhaps it would be better to shred them all than let some “art enthusiast” pay millions for one?

The point is that we shouldn't be encouraging or enabling profiteering.  Just because something is uncommon or an important part of keyboard history doesn't mean someone should be profiteering off of it. 

So basically, people should sell things for below market value, and no one should ever try to find rare keyboards from obscure sources and resell them for profit, because nubbinator says so?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

double standards

[HoffmanMyster]

As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.

And JD can say that he'd rather see them all shredded.

Why aren't people allowed to hold the opposite opinion of the one you're defending?   

[jdcarpe]

You�re crazy. Do you feel the same way about, say, Van Gogh paintings? Perhaps it would be better to shred them all than let some �art enthusiast� pay millions for one?

I'm the most sane person here. )

And I have no opinion when it comes to paintings. I'm not an art collector.

As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.

And JD can say that he'd rather see them all shredded.

Why aren't people allowed to hold the opposite opinion of the one you're defending?   

I missed your point here. Not sure who you're addressing. 1391406?

[Snowdog993]

I think selling anything at a fair market value is fine.  What I don't like is someone buying something just so they can profit from it.  That's not cool.  I guess that's business.  Whether we like it or not it happens all the time.

Getting an old model M from a garage sale for $5 because it is missing a cable and some caps, and may possibly need a bolt mod is good.  Then putting some effort into restoring it and getting the caps and making the buyer happy and maybe make a few bucks is good.  But the value increased because the effort was put into it.  Look at the time and effort some of the people here do.

If you do nothing because someone was nice enough to do all this work for you and then you flip it to someone else to make a profit?  I feel that's a little dishonest.  That's my opinion.

[jacobolus]

Note, everybody, that mechanical keyboards are not 17th century tulips or 1990s beanie babies. For the most part, all the used old keyboards we know and love sell for a tiny fraction of their original value. I’ve bought several old broken laptops for <$50 each that originally sold for $5000+ adjusted for inflation, and several discrete keyboards for $20–50 that originally cost at least $600–800 adjusted for inflation.

We live in a time where (happily? sadly?) there’s a huge glut of 20-year-old mechanical keyboards, because tens of millions of them were produced, they don’t easily break or wear out, and the market for them is a tiny niche, because most people would just as soon use a $10 keyboard or whatever scissor switch thing came with their computer. Unicomp sells their keyboards for a fraction of the price IBM used to sell Model Ms for in 1990 (~$80–100 compared to inflation adjusted $350+), because that is (presumably) the profit maximizing price for them.

The prices for most Model Fs today ($50–150) are incredibly low compared to the original cost of producing them and original prices, and when considering that they are basically indestructible and should last decades. Any “enthusiast” who isn’t homeless and starving can relatively easily afford to buy a Model F XT, AT, or F122 if they really want one. A poor enthusiast doesn’t need an unsaver with APL keycaps.

There are a few rare and desirable types of keyboards, like 4704 banking boards, unsavers, Model M15s, Cherry MX-5000s, FingerWorks Touchstreams, DataHands, etc., whose prices are understandably higher. If these reach $500, $1000, or $2000, it’s not some criminal conspiracy to defraud the hapless “enthusiast”. [And likewise if they sit at that price on ebay not selling for 6 months, that indicates the seller has priced them too high for the market.]

[jdcarpe]

If these reach $500, $1000, or $2000, it�s not some criminal conspiracy to defraud the hapless �enthusiast�.

No, it's someone who happens upon one of these, does a little "research" on eBay, and thinks to themselves, "Oh my God, one of these sold last year for $1000! I can ask that price for mine, and get it." Not everyone is insane and willing to pay those kind of prices for a (questionably?) rare vintage keyboard. But now, to a seller, that is the price, due to the precedent of someone who had more money than sense paying a ridiculous amount for something they desperately wanted.

[jacobolus]

No, it's someone who happens upon one of these, does a little "research" on eBay, and thinks to themselves, "Oh my God, one of these sold last year for $1000! I can ask that price for mine, and get it." Not everyone is insane and willing to pay those kind of prices for a (questionably?) rare vintage keyboard. But now, to a seller, that is the price, due to the precedent of someone who had more money than sense paying a ridiculous amount for something they desperately wanted.

That’s how the market works. The seller will then price their board accordingly, and it will either sell (in which case they picked the right price) or just sit unsold for a few months until they decide to lower the price.

Your argument basically boils down to: As a buyer, you want a low price, so you hope that all sellers are totally clueless about the value of what they have and can’t get information about market-clearing prices, and you want them to sell everything at a discount.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

capitalism vs. socialism thread

[nubbinator]

capitalism vs. socialism thread community vs. craigslist/eBay thread

FTFY. 

I'm of the opinion that if all people are going to use this site for is to buy stuff and flip it at large markup then we're no better than craigslist or eBay.  A community cares about its members and seeks to act like a community. 

For example, if your friend had been looking for a hard to find widget and you found that widget for $20, how much would you sell it to your friend for?  I know I'd charge the $20 or maybe $25 to cover my time and gas.  I wouldn't turn around and sell it to them for $75 because $75 is the fair market price.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't make a profit on something uncommon or that people want, but if you want GH to remain a community, we need to focus on the communal aspect and discourage profiteering.  And if you're going to do a larger markup than a finder's fee, you should be adding a heck of a lot of value to the item.

[Geroximo]

Few are stupid, rich, unpatient, dumbasses.
Many have to suffer ridicolous pricing.

I won't be shoving 80eur up some resellers ass, for a keyboard, I know he got for let's say 10eur. Never.

I went into a thrift store lately and was looking for some keyboards. He had none. But he had a huge box full of SNES games. I wanted to buy Super Mario World and Super Streetfighter II. I thought I'd give him 10eur or so ...I mean ... he had these games multiple times, they cannot be that rare then ... and he probably got them for cheap/free ...
Well, this guy wanted 40 FOURTY euro! 40! ...
NOPE BRO,
nope ... I won't be paying you 40eur for this electronic trash, which you probably got for free ... just nope.

[jacobolus]

Not “capitalism vs. socialism” as much as “market vs. lottery”. If every rare keyboard is priced at $10, then getting one is just a matter of being in the right place at the right time, and obsessively refreshing your browser.

That’s basically what happened with Cindy/Elecplus over at Deskthority. She priced a whole bunch of stuff at a small fraction (10–40%) of regular market prices, and as a result, whichever people happened to message her first got a whole bunch of keyboards (some bought like 4–5 of them), then once everyone else found out about it, there were a bunch of disappointed people who missed out. If she had priced her stuff at like 60–80% of market price instead (which is probably what the “fair” price would be considering everything was being sold sight-unseen with no good documentation or pictures, hence a bit risky), people would have still been happy for the deal, more separate people could have gotten keyboards out of it, and she would have made a whole bunch more money, which would be better encouragement for her to go find more stock.

Basically, the information asymmetry between seller (Cindy) and buyers (Deskthority regulars) resulted in basically a lottery rather than market mechanism for the exchange. That’s fine as far as it goes, but the only people who benefit from the discounted prices were the particular people who got keyboards out of it.

[Note, I’m not complaining about it: Cindy can sell her keyboards however she wants, at whatever prices she wants. I personally got a $35 shipped bad condition XT and a $35 shipped bad condition Xerox Docutech keyboard out of it, both of which I was happy for.]

[1391406]

As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.

Sure, but you get price creep and price inflation from people who either sell at inflated prices.  Given that we're a community of enthusiasts, we should be encouraging fair prices that keep the market prices reasonable.

Based on the number of complaints regarding exorbitant prices, I'd say the vast majority of our community does encourage lower prices, but there's only so much you can do. In my opinion, the best way to discourage inflated prices is simply not to buy and encourage others to do the same.

[Mandolin]

Personally, I'd rather see all the 4704 77-key boards in the world shredded into oblivion than see an enthusiast pay $2000 for one.

Since I'm not about to pay $2K for a 77, their availability at that price is no different to me than their nonexistence.

At least at that price they'll be around, and maybe at some point it'll come down.

My point exactly -- so what if someone wants $5000 for a Model M with a dillithium crystal inside it? If someone else is willing to pay that price, who am I to scold them or the seller for a transaction that doesn't involve me? I expect jdcarpe will walk back that comment about ''shredding" an entire species of keyboard for the sake of "the community."

[Krogenar]

As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.

And JD can say that he'd rather see them all shredded.

Why aren't people allowed to hold the opposite opinion of the one you're defending?   

I don't think 139 is claiming that JD can't hold an opposite opinion. I think the point he's making is that the opinion expressed by JD isn't rational.
JD would rather see a part of the hobby disappear, than see someone make a profit that he finds too high. Conveniently, he's also the arbiter of what's "too much" profit.

Anyone ever get tired of all the 'enthusiasts' smelling their own self-righteous farts?

I'm glad you stood up for your statement, JD -- it's a shining example of GH's really weird attitudes about money. Well, weird to me, anyway.

[HoffmanMyster]

As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.

And JD can say that he'd rather see them all shredded.

Why aren't people allowed to hold the opposite opinion of the one you're defending?   

I don't think 139 is claiming that JD can't hold that an opposite opinion. I think the point he's making is that the opinion expressed by JD isn't rational.

Fair point.  And it's a good point, I won't deny that.  I see this debate all the time on here though, and it never goes anywhere, because the most important factor here seems to be intent.  Some users view the intent of the forum as building community and knowledge.  Some view it as $ and knowledge.  Some like a mixture of all three (or more!).  But it's going to take a lot of convincing to tell someone to switch from valuing community to $. 

And I probably shouldn't have even commented when I did, because I'm really not a fan of these discussions.  They're perfectly fine and civil, it just feels like we're all wasting our time here.  But maybe I'm just feeling particularly cynical right now. 

[Krogenar]

And I probably shouldn't have even commented when I did, because I'm really not a fan of these discussions.  They're perfectly fine and civil, it just feels like we're all wasting our time here.  But maybe I'm just feeling particularly cynical right now. 

Hoff, would you rather see all examples of a rare keyboard shredded, rather than see them sold for a price that offends your sensibilities? I know you're probably a friend of JD, but could you, for the sake of the hobby, agree that his statement is ridiculous beyond all bounds? DESTROY part of keyboard history for the sake of the 'community'? Doesn't that sound like some seriously screwed up priorities to you? What's your opinion, Hoff?

[neverused]

Fact of the matter is that regardless of how you view selling keyboards at a profit, no one is entitled to any help or knowledge from others in doing so.

If members do not want to help in what they consider profiteering, that is their right and it is ignorant to be offended by that. It would be foolish for any one of them to help the market value increase. Just because demand will drive price doesn't mean that anyone has to help you be a part of that.

As a side note, I think the excitement over a sarcastic remark regarding destroying a piece of "history" is ridiculous. It's a keyboard, not the missing link. "Valuable" pieces of history are lost all the time, it's a matter of perspective just how troubling that is. But it's still a keyboard.

[jdcarpe]

And I probably shouldn't have even commented when I did, because I'm really not a fan of these discussions.  They're perfectly fine and civil, it just feels like we're all wasting our time here.  But maybe I'm just feeling particularly cynical right now. 

Hoff, would you rather see all examples of a rare keyboard shredded, rather than see them sold for a price that offends your sensibilities? I know you're probably a friend of JD, but could you, for the sake of the hobby, agree that his statement is ridiculous beyond all bounds? DESTROY part of keyboard history for the sake of the 'community'? Doesn't that sound like some seriously screwed up priorities to you? What's your opinion, Hoff?

Why does everyone have to have an opinion about it? Just because I have strong feelings about something, doesn't mean everyone else has to have an opinion about the subject. Or an opinion about my statement, for that matter. What if someone doesn't care one way or the other?

[Snowdog993]

I have a headache.  I'm gonna watch TV now.  I should have done that sooner.  I knew it was a good idea back then.  It's painful to see this.  The rationality of this thread has been lost somewhere.  A figurative statement is just to be taken figuratively rather than irrationally.  If everything were taken literally, it would be a sad situation for us all.

I think the way it should be looked at, if you feel you are cheating someone, you probably are.
If you feel good about cheating someone, then you will find that you are cheating yourself.

If you feel what you are doing is good for the other person, then it's a good thing.

Hey, it's your conscience.

[Krogenar]

Fact of the matter is that regardless of how you view selling keyboards at a profit, no one is entitled to any help or knowledge from others in doing so.

Agreed. No one is obligated to share their knowledge of keyboards.

If members do not want to help in what they consider profiteering, that is their right and it is ignorant to be offended by that.

I'm not offended by members refusing to help a seller determine a fair market value for a keyboard, or help them determine whether it is rare or not. I'm fine with members withholding information for the sake of a lower price, because it's perfectly normal to want a lower price.

It would be foolish for any one of them to help the market value increase. Just because demand will drive price doesn't mean that anyone has to help you be a part of that.

It's not some GH member's desire to maintain lower (or 'fairer') prices that I find ridiculous; it's the draping of that self-interest in a desire to help "the community". What they really want is lower prices, which is fine, just please don't pretend it's for love of the hobby, or the "community" -- because one of the leading members of this "community" stands by his statement that he would rather see a part of keyboard history be destroyed rather than see them priced higher than he deems acceptable.

What a hypocrite! EDIT: This was wrong of me to say, and I'm sorry I said it. The statement made by jdcarpe, I find to be deeply hypocritical. Whether jdcarpe himself is a hypocrite is not for me to say.

[Krogenar]

Why does everyone have to have an opinion about it? Just because I have strong feelings about something, doesn't mean everyone else has to have an opinion about the subject. Or an opinion about my statement, for that matter. What if someone doesn't care one way or the other?

Everyone? I'm not asking for everyone's opinion. Just Hoff's opinion, because I value it and I think he's fair-minded.

You know what, don't answer Hoff. I shouldn't have put you in that position. I retract the question.

[demik]

if everybody would just stop being poor and then we could all afford expensive keyboards.

[jdcarpe]

What a hypocrite!

Nice. You don't even know me, so don't act like you do.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

if everybody would just stop being poor and then we could all afford expensive keyboards.

i like this idea

[Krogenar]

What a hypocrite!

Nice. You don't even know me, so don't act like you do.

I've edited the post. You're right. I shouldn't assume you're a hypocrite. I apologize for the remark. Your statement that you'd rather see an entire species of rare keyboards be relegated to oblivion rather then be overpriced still appears extremely hypocritical irrational, and at complete odds with your stated commitment to "the community." For the sake of the community, the hobby, etc. -- you'd maim it forever. How does that make any sense at all? Backing off from that statement would require you admitting that I -might- have a point.

[nubbinator]

Krogenar, I respectfully disagree with you 100%.  There is nothing pretend about my stance.  You can believe I don't do what I do for the sake of community all you want, but that won't change that it is.

Part of community is respecting one another.  Communities do not seek to profiteer off one another.  That is not to say they do not seek to make small profits on things, but they seek to keep the profits in line with their expenses and work put into it.

if everybody would just stop being poor and then we could all afford expensive keyboards.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

You guys keep talking about how it should be all about the community... but that is only possible in an ideal world.

Do we live in an ideal world? No.

It's like searching for perfection... it's futile... and complaining about how you can't find it isn't helping...

[jdcarpe]

What a hypocrite!

Nice. You don't even know me, so don't act like you do.

I've edited the post. You're right. I shouldn't assume you're a hypocrite. I apologize for the remark. Your statement that you'd rather see an entire species of rare keyboards be relegated to oblivion rather then be overpriced still appears extremely hypocritical irrational, and at complete odds with your stated commitment to "the community." For the sake of the community, the hobby, etc. -- you'd maim it forever. How does that make any sense at all? Backing off from that statement would require you admitting that I -might- have a point.

Or maybe I just want fair prices for everyone, not only for myself. I can't collect ALL the keyboards. And by the way, that ONE keyboard isn't doing the community any good as it is, because the asking price is ****ING RIDICULOUS. Might as well be destroyed for all the use it's going to get.

You have no point, other than to be argumentative.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

What a hypocrite!

Nice. You don't even know me, so don't act like you do.

I've edited the post. You're right. I shouldn't assume you're a hypocrite. I apologize for the remark. Your statement that you'd rather see an entire species of rare keyboards be relegated to oblivion rather then be overpriced still appears extremely hypocritical irrational, and at complete odds with your stated commitment to "the community." For the sake of the community, the hobby, etc. -- you'd maim it forever. How does that make any sense at all? Backing off from that statement would require you admitting that I -might- have a point.

Or maybe I just want fair prices for everyone, not only for myself. I can't collect ALL the keyboards. And by the way, that ONE keyboard isn't doing the community any good as it is, because the asking price is ****ING RIDICULOUS. Might as well be destroyed for all the use it's going to get.

You have no point, other than to be argumentative.

You're being just as argumentative... and you both make perfectly valid points. Just agree to disagree already and stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

You're not helping the community at all by doing so...

[nubbinator]

You guys keep talking about how it should be all about the community... but that is only possible in an ideal world.

Do we live in an ideal world? No.

It's like searching for perfection... it's futile... and complaining about how you can't find it isn't helping...

This world is not an ideal world, that's why I strive and push for things to be better.  Community is work and you have to have disagreements and work through them to have a strong community.  So while you may see it as complaining, I see it as standing up against something that I feel damages the community.

[demik]

i blame the mexicans, who's with me?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

i blame the mexicans, who's with me?

I blame the schools

[1391406]

that ONE keyboard isn't doing the community any good as it is, because the asking price is ****ING RIDICULOUS. Might as well be destroyed for all the use it's going to get.

While I can't afford it, I don't really see the point in destroying a perfectly good keyboard. Don't you think whoever buys it will likely use it? I'd tend to think an enthusiast is probably the only one who will buy it at that price anyway.

[1391406]

Hell, for that matter the thing hasn't even sold yet.

[jacobolus]

Part of community is respecting one another.  Communities do not seek to profiteer off one another.  That is not to say they do not seek to make small profits on things, but they seek to keep the profits in line with their expenses and work put into it.
[...]

This world is not an ideal world, that's why I strive and push for things to be better.  Community is work and you have to have disagreements and work through them to have a strong community.  So while you may see it as complaining, I see it as standing up against something that I feel damages the community.

Except what you’re “standing up against” is: one guy goes to a bunch of e-cyclers, manages to find some rare stuff that would otherwise sit on a basement shelf for years or maybe get scrapped, and posts some auctions on ebay after first restoring and USB converting several of the boards (important note: ebay is not geekhack), and then an entirely different guy makes a link on geekhack ridiculing the price of one ebay auction. And then you jump on the first guy for being a bad community member. Then that’s not enough, but you and jd have to keep going on about it in multiple unrelated threads.

From my perspective, there’s much more disrespect here coming from the keyboard price police than ever came from any of the salesmen, all in the name of some unspecified “damage” that’ll happen if sellers start jacking up the prices on 77-key 4704 banking terminal boards and APL unsavers. Oh wait: we know of the existence of like 2–3 of those each... which means there aren’t any other sellers... so if the sellers jack the price up, it will prevent approximately zero people from getting one of these. Some terrible “damage”.

[I’ll agree that the OP of this specific thread was being tasteless and inappropriate. But we’ve already gone over that to death, and it doesn’t need to be repeated further.]

[1391406]

Part of community is respecting one another.  Communities do not seek to profiteer off one another.  That is not to say they do not seek to make small profits on things, but they seek to keep the profits in line with their expenses and work put into it.
[...]

This world is not an ideal world, that's why I strive and push for things to be better.  Community is work and you have to have disagreements and work through them to have a strong community.  So while you may see it as complaining, I see it as standing up against something that I feel damages the community.

Except what you�re �standing up against� is stuff like: one guy goes to a bunch of e-cyclers, manages to find some rare stuff that would otherwise sit on a basement shelf for years or maybe get scrapped, and posts some auctions on ebay after first restoring and USB converting several of the boards (important note: ebay is not geekhack), and then an entirely different guy makes a link on geekhack ridiculing the price of one ebay auction. And then you jump on the first guy for being a bad community member. Then that�s not enough, but you and jd have to keep going on about it in multiple unrelated threads.

I mean, seriously, wtf? There�s more disrespect here coming from the self-righteous witch-hunters than from any of the keyboard salesmen.

[I�ll agree that the OP of this specific thread was being tasteless and inappropriate. But we�ve already gone over that to death, and doesn�t need to be repeated further.]

Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure. If so, how many threads can you point to where I've criticized anyone for being a bad community member? How many threads can you point to where I've ridiculed the price of any auction? I'm not sure which multiple threads you're referring to. As far as this thread is concerned, I'm simply offering an opinion and hardly being argumentative. It's not as if anyone is twisting anyone's arm to read the content of this or any other post, you know?

[jacobolus]

Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.

Huh? No, I’m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of “fairness”.

[jacobolus]

By the way, if anyone wants some ridiculous price for a keyboard, try this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261759321262

$350 starting bid for this beauty:

[1391406]

Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.

Huh? No, I�m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of �fairness�.

Never mind. For whatever reason I thought your previous reply quoted me. Doh.

[nubbinator]

Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.

Huh? No, I’m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of “fairness”.

I have not been nasty and vicious at all in this thread nor was I in the other thread I'm sure you're referencing.

As to the "naive" notion of fairness, it's not naive, it's idealistic.  I like to believe that a community that really cares about itself and the members of the community would strive to be better.  I guess I'm wrong.  Maybe I should just start selling all my Clacks and Bros for inflated prices.  Maybe I should sell my AT&T 305B for $150 because it's rare.  I could go on, but I won't because I think you get my point.  You can call it ridiculous and naive, I call it trying to do what's best for the community.

[jdcarpe]

Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.

Huh? No, I�m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of �fairness�.

Please, I'd love to see where I've been "downright nasty and vicious" in this and other threads. You can PM me if it's too much to put in one comment in an unrelated thread...

[1391406]

Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.

Huh? No, I�m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of �fairness�.

I have not been nasty and vicious at all in this thread nor was I in the other thread I'm sure you're referencing.

As to the "naive" notion of fairness, it's not naive, it's idealistic.  I like to believe that a community that really cares about itself and the members of the community would strive to be better.  I guess I'm wrong.  Maybe I should just start selling all my Clacks and Bros for inflated prices.  Maybe I should sell my AT&T 305B for $150 because it's rare.  I could go on, but I won't because I think you get my point.  You can call it ridiculous and naive, I call it trying to do what's best for the community.

Why is raising the value of an item bad for the community?