Geekhack LGBTQ+ thread

[azhdar]

Ok, so, when I said in the OP that I was interested what responses I'd get, positive or negative, that wasn't supposed to be an invitation for everyone to air exactly what their opinion is on queer people. The support is nice for obvious reasons, but this thread really wasn't intended as a place for people to tell us all their problems with pride marches and gay marriage. This is one of the problems that I was talking about in the OP, is that on many online forums as soon as people find out you're queer, they have to turn it into a political debate about "queerness" as a whole. I suppose more what I had in mind was a place for queer people on GH to make themselves known, and for everyone else to recognize that about them, and accept that individual person, regardless of how they feel about the overall political ideas. For those of you that would say this is unnecessary, maybe it is, and you are in no way obligated to come onto this thread if you don't want to see the content. Anyways, I would just appreciate if people could approach this with more of an open-minded, inquisitive attitude, rather than one of just "I want to make sure everyone knows that I don't like the gays" (btw I DON'T think anyone on this thread is saying that).
On that note, I'd like to apologize profusely to azhder for my sarcastic response, it was exactly the opposite of what I'm now saying, I should have approached that in a much more open-minded manner. I'll leave that post intact as an example of what should NOT happen here.

Thanks for this answer, I saw this thread when it opened and didn't want in because of the points your raised.
I'll be out of this thread and will remove my posts if you wish to.

And people can believe it or not I had friends in this communities they never had problems with me.

Did you tell them that you didn't think they should be allowed to adopt children?

I explained my opinion and discussed it with them some couples agreed some didn't, trust it or not, not 100% of this community wants marriage or adoption.
People can be friends even if their opinions differ, actually it helps to review your opinions once in a while with people that have a different perspective than you.

Thanks for this answer, I saw this thread when it opened and didn't want in because of the points your raised.
I'll be out of this thread and will remove my posts if you wish to.

And people can believe it or not I had friends in this communities they never had problems with me.

Dude it's totally fine, leave the posts there if you want, I couldn't care less. This is exactly what I'm talking about though, I have plenty of friends who, if they had their political way, would probably make life pretty hard for me (if inadvertently), but we can still be friends. The fact that you have these opinions should never prevent me from for instance participating in a groupbuy run by you, or appreciating your AZERTY superiority posts.  Ya'll can even continue debating these issues, I just hope it's in a constructive fashion (unlike my debating apparently), if that's what people want, I'm not the god of this thread just because I created it.

Thanks for this answer, I saw this thread when it opened and didn't want in because of the points your raised.
I'll be out of this thread and will remove my posts if you wish to.

And people can believe it or not I had friends in this communities they never had problems with me.

Dude it's totally fine, leave the posts there if you want, I couldn't care less. This is exactly what I'm talking about though, I have plenty of friends who, if they had their political way, would probably make life pretty hard for me (if inadvertently), but we can still be friends. The fact that you have these opinions should never prevent me from for instance participating in a groupbuy run by you, or appreciating your AZERTY superiority posts.  Ya'll can even continue debating these issues, I just hope it's in a constructive fashion (unlike my debating apparently), if that's what people want, I'm not the god of this thread just because I created it.

How can you like and or be friends with someone who fundamental thinks that you are below/less than them?

Ok, now quote me where I said that.

[27]

Can we just keep this as a thread for support and discussion?   This was made for the LGBTQ+ members to have a space to talk, and for supporters to discuss.  We shouldn't bring discriminatory opinions into this.

[demik]

He's asking trenza not you. Maybe you should listen to your own complaint about not reading everything said

[demik]

Can we just keep this as a thread for support and discussion?   This was made for the LGBTQ+ members to have a space to talk, and for supporters to discuss.  We shouldn't bring discriminatory opinions into this.

How is the other side not discussion? If you want an echo chamber, tumblr.com is pretty intolerant of opinions that don't fit their narrative.

[27]

Can we just keep this as a thread for support and discussion?   This was made for the LGBTQ+ members to have a space to talk, and for supporters to discuss.  We shouldn't bring discriminatory opinions into this.

How is the other side not discussion? If you want an echo chamber, tumblr.com is pretty intolerant of opinions that don't fit their narrative.

I'm all for the discussion, I just think we should try to keep the politics out of it.

I agree with people saying pride parades are ridiculous, but I'm not going to air that out, because there's no positive discussion I can see from that.

[demik]

Can we just keep this as a thread for support and discussion?   This was made for the LGBTQ+ members to have a space to talk, and for supporters to discuss.  We shouldn't bring discriminatory opinions into this.

How is the other side not discussion? If you want an echo chamber, tumblr.com is pretty intolerant of opinions that don't fit their narrative.

I'm all for the discussion, I just think we should try to keep the politics out of it.

I agree with people saying pride parades are ridiculous, but I'm not going to air that out, because there's no positive discussion I can see from that.

But that's part of it. Leaving it out cripples the discussion. Also, nobody here has been disrespectful towards other members.

[baldgye]

Ok, so, when I said in the OP that I was interested what responses I'd get, positive or negative, that wasn't supposed to be an invitation for everyone to air exactly what their opinion is on queer people. The support is nice for obvious reasons, but this thread really wasn't intended as a place for people to tell us all their problems with pride marches and gay marriage. This is one of the problems that I was talking about in the OP, is that on many online forums as soon as people find out you're queer, they have to turn it into a political debate about "queerness" as a whole. I suppose more what I had in mind was a place for queer people on GH to make themselves known, and for everyone else to recognize that about them, and accept that individual person, regardless of how they feel about the overall political ideas. For those of you that would say this is unnecessary, maybe it is, and you are in no way obligated to come onto this thread if you don't want to see the content. Anyways, I would just appreciate if people could approach this with more of an open-minded, inquisitive attitude, rather than one of just "I want to make sure everyone knows that I don't like the gays" (btw I DON'T think anyone on this thread is saying that).
On that note, I'd like to apologize profusely to azhder for my sarcastic response, it was exactly the opposite of what I'm now saying, I should have approached that in a much more open-minded manner. I'll leave that post intact as an example of what should NOT happen here.

Thanks for this answer, I saw this thread when it opened and didn't want in because of the points your raised.
I'll be out of this thread and will remove my posts if you wish to.

And people can believe it or not I had friends in this communities they never had problems with me.

Did you tell them that you didn't think they should be allowed to adopt children?

I explained my opinion and discussed it with them some couples agreed some didn't, trust it or not, not 100% of this community wants marriage or adoption.
People can be friends even if their opinions differ, actually it helps to review your opinions once in a while with people that have a different perspective than you.

le irony
Though there is a difference between having a different of opinion and literally thinking your genetically(for want of a better word) superior..

[digi]

le irony
Though there is a difference between having a different of opinion and literally thinking your genetically(for want of a better word) superior..

I am better than all of you.

[azhdar]

Ok, so, when I said in the OP that I was interested what responses I'd get, positive or negative, that wasn't supposed to be an invitation for everyone to air exactly what their opinion is on queer people. The support is nice for obvious reasons, but this thread really wasn't intended as a place for people to tell us all their problems with pride marches and gay marriage. This is one of the problems that I was talking about in the OP, is that on many online forums as soon as people find out you're queer, they have to turn it into a political debate about "queerness" as a whole. I suppose more what I had in mind was a place for queer people on GH to make themselves known, and for everyone else to recognize that about them, and accept that individual person, regardless of how they feel about the overall political ideas. For those of you that would say this is unnecessary, maybe it is, and you are in no way obligated to come onto this thread if you don't want to see the content. Anyways, I would just appreciate if people could approach this with more of an open-minded, inquisitive attitude, rather than one of just "I want to make sure everyone knows that I don't like the gays" (btw I DON'T think anyone on this thread is saying that).
On that note, I'd like to apologize profusely to azhder for my sarcastic response, it was exactly the opposite of what I'm now saying, I should have approached that in a much more open-minded manner. I'll leave that post intact as an example of what should NOT happen here.

Thanks for this answer, I saw this thread when it opened and didn't want in because of the points your raised.
I'll be out of this thread and will remove my posts if you wish to.

And people can believe it or not I had friends in this communities they never had problems with me.

Did you tell them that you didn't think they should be allowed to adopt children?

I explained my opinion and discussed it with them some couples agreed some didn't, trust it or not, not 100% of this community wants marriage or adoption.
People can be friends even if their opinions differ, actually it helps to review your opinions once in a while with people that have a different perspective than you.

le irony
Though there is a difference between having a different of opinion and literally thinking your genetically(for want of a better word) superior..

Thanks for this answer, I saw this thread when it opened and didn't want in because of the points your raised.
I'll be out of this thread and will remove my posts if you wish to.

And people can believe it or not I had friends in this communities they never had problems with me.

Dude it's totally fine, leave the posts there if you want, I couldn't care less. This is exactly what I'm talking about though, I have plenty of friends who, if they had their political way, would probably make life pretty hard for me (if inadvertently), but we can still be friends. The fact that you have these opinions should never prevent me from for instance participating in a groupbuy run by you, or appreciating your AZERTY superiority posts.  Ya'll can even continue debating these issues, I just hope it's in a constructive fashion (unlike my debating apparently), if that's what people want, I'm not the god of this thread just because I created it.

How can you like and or be friends with someone who fundamental thinks that you are below/less than them?

Ok, now quote me where I said that.

[demik]

le irony
Though there is a difference between having a different of opinion and literally thinking your genetically(for want of a better word) superior..

I am better than all of you.

Being a raider fan takes you down a peg

[baldgye]

I don't get it?
I wasn't repling to you, this is a forum when replying to someone you quote them, sometimes when you do that it includes a quote from another person that they where replying to. This is how forums work, this is how forums have always worked and how geekhack has always worked.

The question dosnt even make sense to be addressed to you...

[digi]

Being a raider fan takes you down a peg

[trenzafeeds]

Thanks for this answer, I saw this thread when it opened and didn't want in because of the points your raised.
I'll be out of this thread and will remove my posts if you wish to.

And people can believe it or not I had friends in this communities they never had problems with me.

Dude it's totally fine, leave the posts there if you want, I couldn't care less. This is exactly what I'm talking about though, I have plenty of friends who, if they had their political way, would probably make life pretty hard for me (if inadvertently), but we can still be friends. The fact that you have these opinions should never prevent me from for instance participating in a groupbuy run by you, or appreciating your AZERTY superiority posts.  Ya'll can even continue debating these issues, I just hope it's in a constructive fashion (unlike my debating apparently), if that's what people want, I'm not the god of this thread just because I created it.

How can you like and or be friends with someone who fundamental thinks that you are below/less than them?

I mean you should ask azhdar, he's but a lowly azerty infidel, while I am an enlightened member of the Dvorak ruling class, so who's really fundamentally inferior in this situation?

[demik]

Being a raider fan takes you down a peg

Show Image

That kid is European! HE KNOWS NOTHING

[azhdar]

Thanks for this answer, I saw this thread when it opened and didn't want in because of the points your raised.
I'll be out of this thread and will remove my posts if you wish to.

And people can believe it or not I had friends in this communities they never had problems with me.

Dude it's totally fine, leave the posts there if you want, I couldn't care less. This is exactly what I'm talking about though, I have plenty of friends who, if they had their political way, would probably make life pretty hard for me (if inadvertently), but we can still be friends. The fact that you have these opinions should never prevent me from for instance participating in a groupbuy run by you, or appreciating your AZERTY superiority posts.  Ya'll can even continue debating these issues, I just hope it's in a constructive fashion (unlike my debating apparently), if that's what people want, I'm not the god of this thread just because I created it.

How can you like and or be friends with someone who fundamental thinks that you are below/less than them?

I mean you should ask azhdar, he's but a lowly azerty infidel, while I am an enlightened member of the Dvorak ruling class, so who's really fundamentally inferior in this situation?

Sorry but I seriously can't considered having a discussion with someone with a different usage of layout than mine.
Also I'm sure you eat your steak medium rare? I can only discuss with people that eat them "blue".
Your opinions are so below mine.

/sarcasm (for the people that won't get it ...)

[baldgye]

What are you talking about?
You said (or aluded to the fact that) you have friends who are anti gay freedoms (about making your life difficult), thus they think you are inferior to themselfs. They consider you to be less of a person than they are, if they didn't they would be pro gay freedoms because logically there is no difference between gay and straight people, we are all just people.

So I was asking how you could possibly be friends with people like that?


It makes no sense for me to ask azhdar because he has no knowledge/experiance of being in a minority

[trenzafeeds]

Also I'm sure you eat your steak medium rare?

Vegetarian

[27]

Can we just keep this as a thread for support and discussion?   This was made for the LGBTQ+ members to have a space to talk, and for supporters to discuss.  We shouldn't bring discriminatory opinions into this.

How is the other side not discussion? If you want an echo chamber, tumblr.com is pretty intolerant of opinions that don't fit their narrative.

I'm all for the discussion, I just think we should try to keep the politics out of it.

I agree with people saying pride parades are ridiculous, but I'm not going to air that out, because there's no positive discussion I can see from that.

But that's part of it. Leaving it out cripples the discussion. Also, nobody here has been disrespectful towards other members.

That's true.  Discuss away friends!

[digi]

That kid is European! HE KNOWS NOTHING

Oh, now Europeans are STUPID?!?! WHAT DO YOU KNOW 49ERS FAN?? I'm pretty sure there is TV and Internet in Euro-land, mmmkay?

[demik]

That kid is European! HE KNOWS NOTHING

Oh, now Europeans are STUPID?!?! WHAT DO YOU KNOW 49ERS FAN?? I'm pretty sure there is TV and Internet in Euro-land, mmmkay?

Yes they are. God damn commies

[digi]

Yes they are. God damn commies

Finally, we agree.

[baldgye]

Nah Internet and TV arnt allowed in Euroland

[demik]

Yes they are. God damn commies

Finally, we agree.

Euro bashing keeps communities together.

[digi]

Yes they are. God damn commies

Finally, we agree.

Euro bashing keeps communities together.

lol, yes.

Mexico > EU

[baldgye]

Mexico is like Spain 2.0 and the USA is like a better version of the rest of Europe. Even has its own London and Paris

[iri]

Yes they are. God damn commies

Finally, we agree.

Euro bashing keeps communities together.

lol, yes.

Mexico > EU

nah mate, it's Mexico > USA. Something with the unsecured border I guess.

[demik]

Yes they are. God damn commies

Finally, we agree.

Euro bashing keeps communities together.

lol, yes.

Mexico > EU

Last I checked I lived in the U.S. and not Mexico. So you can bash Mexico all you want.

[digi]

Last I checked I lived in the U.S. and not Mexico. So you can bash Mexico all you want.

L.A. is Mexico v. 2.0

[HoffmanMyster]

Mexico is like Spain 2.0 and the USA is like a better version of the rest of Europe. Even has its own London and Paris

Dude, we've got everything.  I grew up near Berlin, I just drove past Luxembourg the other day, and I live ten miles from Freedom. 

[demik]

Last I checked I lived in the U.S. and not Mexico. So you can bash Mexico all you want.

L.A. is Mexico v. 2.0

Not if these white hipsters have anything to say

[kishy]

I am a male (by physical sex as well as logical gender) who is in a committed relationship with a male (again in both sex and gender). I have a traditionally masculine personality and "boy hobbies" (working on my cars and so on). I find myself excluded from conventional definitions of orientations, so I try to stay away from those labels.

Simply, I'm inclined to believe (though I recognize that I can't speak for everyone) that perhaps anyone of any sex and gender can have any type of emotion towards anyone else of any sex and gender, and the preference of what physical parts to play with and what physical acts to do is just that...preference...(yes, that is a "gay man" telling you that he feels it "is a choice"...but only in part)

As for pride events, I recognize their significance but I do believe they hurt the cause of seeking inclusion and acceptance. I am opposed to public displays of affection (by anyone of any sex or gender towards anyone), not because it bothers me but because I believe it just doesn't belong in the public realm. As you might imagine I am therefore rather opposed to the typical format of a pride parade, at least in a larger city - the nudity and sexuality goes counter to the goal of being acknowledged as functional, non-sex-crazed members of society who are in no meaningful way different from anyone else...

Edited to address rantishness.

[digi]

Last I checked I lived in the U.S. and not Mexico. So you can bash Mexico all you want.

L.A. is Mexico v. 2.0

Not if these white hipsters have anything to say

Racist!!

[baldgye]

Mexico is like Spain 2.0 and the USA is like a better version of the rest of Europe. Even has its own London and Paris

Dude, we've got everything.  I grew up near Berlin, I just drove past Luxembourg the other day, and I live ten miles from Freedom. 

God damnit

[hwood34]

*: don't get me started on Special Snowflake syndrome which is running rampant among people of my age and younger which has no connection to sex, gender or orientation...we have a lot of people in this generation who feel they need to be different to matter in life which I think is not a good sign of what's coming when this generation runs the world.

dude but I'm an self-diagnosed autistic dragonkin, why can't you understand that?

[kishy]

dude but I'm an self-diagnosed autistic dragonkin, why can't you understand that?

All of the sighs.

[Fire Brand]

I am a male (by physical sex as well as logical gender) who is in a committed relationship with a male (again in both sex and gender). I have a traditionally masculine personality and "boy hobbies" (working on my cars and so on). I find myself excluded from conventional definitions of orientations, so I try to stay away from those labels.

Simply, I'm inclined to believe (though I recognize that I can't speak for everyone) that perhaps anyone of any sex and gender can have any type of emotion towards anyone else of any sex and gender, and the preference of what physical parts to play with and what physical acts to do is just that...preference...(yes, that is a "gay man" telling you that he feels it "is a choice"...but only in part)

As for pride events, I recognize their significance but I do believe they hurt the cause of seeking inclusion and acceptance.

Kishy I think you just nailed how I also feel and put my thoughts down better, its easier to say I'm gay than just I happen to prefer men a lot lot more than women, as I never liked the label of being "gay" as it almost always has a negative connotation, also super super agree with you on the whole pride thing I don't see the point as I would just rather people be accepting which luckly I have had a awesome upbringing, but no I super think you took my feelings on this and wrote them down well good work buddie

[HoffmanMyster]

I am a male (by physical sex as well as logical gender) who is in a committed relationship with a male (again in both sex and gender). I have a traditionally masculine personality and "boy hobbies" (working on my cars and so on). I find myself excluded from conventional definitions of orientations, so I try to stay away from those labels.

Simply, I'm inclined to believe (though I recognize that I can't speak for everyone) that perhaps anyone of any sex and gender can have any type of emotion towards anyone else of any sex and gender, and the preference of what physical parts to play with and what physical acts to do is just that...preference...(yes, that is a "gay man" telling you that he feels it "is a choice"...but only in part)

As for pride events, I recognize their significance but I do believe they hurt the cause of seeking inclusion and acceptance.

Kishy I think you just nailed how I also feel and put my thoughts down better, its easier to say I'm gay than just I happen to prefer men a lot lot more than women, as I never liked the label of being "gay" as it almost always has a negative connotation, also super super agree with you on the whole pride thing I don't see the point as I would just rather people be accepting which luckly I have had a awesome upbringing, but no I super think you took my feelings on this and wrote them down well good work buddie

I might be misinterpreting, but the whole "I prefer men" thing seems pretty easy for me to understand.  I feel like I can agree that labeling as 'gay' would be too narrow of a scope in that case, so the logical thing to do would be to explain the male preference, as you've done.  Maybe this isn't my place to ask, but does that typically not go well, hence the aversion to the topic/definition in general?

[iri]

i am nonbinary wolfkin in both sex and gender.

[kishy]

Cheers, Fire Brand

I might be misinterpreting, but the whole "I prefer men" thing seems pretty easy for me to understand.  I feel like I can agree that labeling as 'gay' would be too narrow of a scope in that case, so the logical thing to do would be to explain the male preference, as you've done.  Maybe this isn't my place to ask, but does that typically not go well, hence the aversion to the topic/definition in general?

Well, that would be the logical approach. The problem is that the word 'preference' implies choice and there are a lot of very angry "militant gays" (as some would call them) that have a big issue with so much as hinting at the thought that choice is involved in the matter.

It's nature/nurture, an argument as old as any other...many people are insistent that they're born gay. I think they're(/we're, I'm) just open minded enough to accept the possibility and pursue the option due to general interest. They end up liking it (physical sensations which objectively feel good, and then the parts of the experience that they subjectively like such as the overall concept of what they're doing) and conclude that because they like it more, it must be how they are. Why is this necessary? Why can't one just acknowledge that they are open to and enjoy something without needing to completely dedicate themselves to the label (and often associated stereotypes as well)?

I can't speak for everyone, but I do know a bunch of "straight" guys who feel the above applies to them. They've done both, they prefer women. They choose to be straight.

(consider that biologically, everyone is "straight enough" to procreate - otherwise, one is not fulfilling a reason for existing...this isn't a bad thing, and isn't meant to offend...one isn't a failure for not procreating...we assign higher-level meanings to our existence via our society)

This issue is rather complex because of how firmly attached people are to labels. A big part of the fight for marriage equality is statements that people are born gay and it's not able to be changed. I agree, it can't be changed because it doesn't exist - we're people, we like certain physical sensations and some of us form relationships with the same gender...I don't really understand the need for labeling this behaviour to recognize it as being different at all.

[demik]

I'm mexikin


Huehuehue

[nubbinator]

More

I am a male (by physical sex as well as logical gender) who is in a committed relationship with a male (again in both sex and gender). I have a traditionally masculine personality and "boy hobbies" (working on my cars and so on). I find myself excluded from conventional definitions of orientations, so I try to stay away from those labels.

Simply, I'm inclined to believe (though I recognize that I can't speak for everyone) that perhaps anyone of any sex and gender can have any type of emotion towards anyone else of any sex and gender, and the preference of what physical parts to play with and what physical acts to do is just that...preference...(yes, that is a "gay man" telling you that he feels it "is a choice"...but only in part)

As for pride events, I recognize their significance but I do believe they hurt the cause of seeking inclusion and acceptance.

Kishy I think you just nailed how I also feel and put my thoughts down better, its easier to say I'm gay than just I happen to prefer men a lot lot more than women, as I never liked the label of being "gay" as it almost always has a negative connotation, also super super agree with you on the whole pride thing I don't see the point as I would just rather people be accepting which luckly I have had a awesome upbringing, but no I super think you took my feelings on this and wrote them down well good work buddie

I might be misinterpreting, but the whole "I prefer men" thing seems pretty easy for me to understand.  I feel like I can agree that labeling as 'gay' would be too narrow of a scope in that case, so the logical thing to do would be to explain the male preference, as you've done.  Maybe this isn't my place to ask, but does that typically not go well, hence the aversion to the topic/definition in general?

I know in Texas that doesn't go over well, nor does it go over well in areas heavily populated with members of traditional or conservative sects of Abrahamic religions.  While I'm straight, people constantly thought I was gay in undergrad.  It made things interesting at times.  The discussion of gender and sexuality was always tough there though since they tended to view gender in traditional gender roles (dress this way, act this way, like these things) and sexuality as binary as opposed to the spectrum or range that's been acknowledged by scholars subsequent to Kinsey. 

I also know that, at least in Texas and conservative Orange County, if you talk about preference, they decide to make it all about choice.  They'll make the argument that it's a conscious choice and that if you choose to be gay then you can choose to "do the moral thing" and be straight.

[esoomenona]

.

[inanis]

I once had someone explain to me the whole far right argument about choosing to be gay as this:

To them, it absolutely is a choice, and there is no denying that. The reason this must be accepted as fact is because there are people who wake up everyday and make the "choice" to be straight, going against what their true nature intends them to be. They struggle everyday to make this choice, to be what they deem morally right. Therefore to them, there are people who are making the choice to be gay.

Personally I think that for some people there is no choice in the matter. They are attracted to same sex, or feel the were born the wrong gender and that is just fact. Same for some straight people, you just like who you like and that is how it is. For other people it can be more ambiguous than that. They may not discriminate with gender, and perhaps for some of those it is because they have no sexual interest at all, but instead are more into the emotional compatibility. People can be attracted to others for all kind of different reasons and in all different ways.

What it comes down to for me, is that people should be allowed to be who they are without fear of discrimination. I have to believe that one of the worst ways to live is pretending to be something you are not, because of fear of acceptance or personal safety.  Often the ones who so staunchly profess "it is a choice, and you are choosing wrong" is because they struggle so hard to "choose right" and that must be an awful existence.

[trenzafeeds]

I don't agree with everything said here (and I don't expect to), but this is EXACTLY the kind of discussion I was hoping might happen on this thread. Definitely an interesting read.

[demik]

More

I am a male (by physical sex as well as logical gender) who is in a committed relationship with a male (again in both sex and gender). I have a traditionally masculine personality and "boy hobbies" (working on my cars and so on). I find myself excluded from conventional definitions of orientations, so I try to stay away from those labels.

Simply, I'm inclined to believe (though I recognize that I can't speak for everyone) that perhaps anyone of any sex and gender can have any type of emotion towards anyone else of any sex and gender, and the preference of what physical parts to play with and what physical acts to do is just that...preference...(yes, that is a "gay man" telling you that he feels it "is a choice"...but only in part)

As for pride events, I recognize their significance but I do believe they hurt the cause of seeking inclusion and acceptance.

Kishy I think you just nailed how I also feel and put my thoughts down better, its easier to say I'm gay than just I happen to prefer men a lot lot more than women, as I never liked the label of being "gay" as it almost always has a negative connotation, also super super agree with you on the whole pride thing I don't see the point as I would just rather people be accepting which luckly I have had a awesome upbringing, but no I super think you took my feelings on this and wrote them down well good work buddie

I might be misinterpreting, but the whole "I prefer men" thing seems pretty easy for me to understand.  I feel like I can agree that labeling as 'gay' would be too narrow of a scope in that case, so the logical thing to do would be to explain the male preference, as you've done.  Maybe this isn't my place to ask, but does that typically not go well, hence the aversion to the topic/definition in general?

While I'm straight, people constantly thought I was gay in undergrad.  It made things interesting at times.

Fwiw I still think you're gay.

[Air tree]

demik really just hopes you're gay nubbs. It would crush him to think that he has no chance with you.

[demik]

demik really just hopes you're gay nubbs. It would crush him to think that he has no chance with you.

Whoa whoa. I'm spoken for by bee.

[nubbinator]

What it comes down to for me, is that people should be allowed to be who they are without fear of discrimination. I have to believe that one of the worst ways to live is pretending to be something you are not, because of fear of acceptance or personal safety.  Often the ones who so staunchly profess "it is a choice, and you are choosing wrong" is because they struggle so hard to "choose right" and that must be an awful existence.

I agree with two exceptions.  First is "kin" people.  I work with people with schizophrenia and most of the tumblr-esque "kinfolk" I've heard sound like schizophrenics.  If you want to dress up as a cat and **** someone's brains out while meowing, that's your thing.  I don't get it, but whatever.  Just don't go around telling me you're dolphin kin stuck in a person's buddy and you have conversations with dolphins in your headspace.

The second exception is people who engage in sex with persons or things that do not have capacity or ability to consent.  If you're attracted to children or animals or even bridges, that's fine.  Acting on it is not, be it through direct action it consumption.

demik really just hopes you're gay nubbs. It would crush him to think that he has no chance with you.

Mainly it's because I keep turning him down for a beehatch threesome.  He just can't understand how I could be monogamous.

[HoffmanMyster]

What it comes down to for me, is that people should be allowed to be who they are without fear of discrimination. I have to believe that one of the worst ways to live is pretending to be something you are not, because of fear of acceptance or personal safety.  Often the ones who so staunchly profess "it is a choice, and you are choosing wrong" is because they struggle so hard to "choose right" and that must be an awful existence.

I agree with two exceptions.  First is "kin" people.  I work with people with schizophrenia and most of the tumblr-esque "kinfolk" I've heard sound like schizophrenics.  If you want to dress up as a vast abd **** someone's brains out while meowing, that's your thing.  I don't get it, but whatever.  Just don't go around telling me you're dolphin kin stuck in a person's buddy and you have conversations with dolphins in your headspace.

TIL that's a thing.

[inanis]

What it comes down to for me, is that people should be allowed to be who they are without fear of discrimination. I have to believe that one of the worst ways to live is pretending to be something you are not, because of fear of acceptance or personal safety.  Often the ones who so staunchly profess "it is a choice, and you are choosing wrong" is because they struggle so hard to "choose right" and that must be an awful existence.

I agree with two exceptions.  First is "kin" people.  I work with people with schizophrenia and most of the tumblr-esque "kinfolk" I've heard sound like schizophrenics.  If you want to dress up as a vast abd **** someone's brains out while meowing, that's your thing.  I don't get it, but whatever.  Just don't go around telling me you're dolphin kin stuck in a person's buddy and you have conversations with dolphins in your headspace.

The second exception is people who engage in sex with persons or things that do not have capacity or ability to consent.  If you're attracted to children or animals or even bridges, that's fine.  Acting on it is not, be it through direct action it consumption.

Agreed on the limitations...I mean, within reasonable limits. Like, no it is not okay be to attracted to your sister, or whatever, and don't bang dogs cause you think they are hot. That is not okay. Ever. And it is gross (sorry to be judgmental). Kin is a whole different thing that I can't really wrap my brain around. I guess as long as they aren't trying to bang their "kinfolk" then they can do whatever they want. I would agree to lean toward mental disorder rather than anything about gender, or sexual orientation. 

I was speaking more the of the healthy forms of consent that people can give when they are of age and sound mind.