Author Topic: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical  (Read 39020 times)

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Offline knightjp

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Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 03:53:50 »
I currently have an Apple full size wired keyboard, exactly as the one below.


My brother has a Razor gaming mechanical keyboard just lying around and I was wondering if that is better to use. I like the Apple keyboard, but which would be better as I'm just trying to learn to touch-type on qwerty.

Offline ajx

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 04:11:21 »
Mechanical keyboard is 1000x better
No offense to Apple but those keyboards are kinda **** for typing which is the purpose of keyboards right?

Offline sth

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 04:16:54 »
touch typing is not intrinsically linked to keyswitch and only marginally important when you consider the 'pressable' area of the key, because the spacing is still the same no matter which board you use.

 i go back and forth between a hhkb and a macbook keyboard which is pretty much identical to the discrete apple keyboards. i can type plenty fast on the macbook without looking -- in fact, low travel keys are preferred by a lot of heavy-use touch typists.

my advice is to not worry about the specific keyboard when it comes to touch typing. worry about the specific keyboard for other reasons such as ergonomics, build quality, and goofy keycaps.
11:48 -!- SmallFry [~SmallFry@unaffiliated/smallfry] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] ... rest in peace

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 04:54:47 »
Mechanical keyboard is 1000x better
No offense to Apple but those keyboards are kinda **** for typing which is the purpose of keyboards right?

If I'm completely honest, while I was using Colemak or Dvorak, the Apple keyboard was simply amazing. It still is. Its not mechanical, but it has the right feel. Don't get that same feel from any other chiclet keyboard. I've tried quite a few. 
I'm happy to continue using the Apple keyboard. It has served me well and I think that it will continue to do so for a long time to come.
I notice that the keys on the Apple keyboard seem slightly harder when compared to Razor.

Right now, I moved back to QWERTY and its no picnic. I need to get good at it quickly. I was wondering if the mechanical keyboard would help in that sense.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 05:56:34 »
I have both, although not a Razer, but a few other modern mechanical keyboards.

I though the Apple keyboard was pretty good (apart from one I used at work that used to give me regular electric shocks).

I tried using it again (not the shocking one, the other one) recently, and it just felt flat and lifeless in comparison to most of my mechanical keyboards.

As you have the option of trying both, do so (preferably for a few days or a week if you can), and see what you think.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 06:44:10 »
I suppose the feel of the keyboard is pretty important.

For most of my day while I'm at work. I use a PC with a Logitech MK270 wireless keyboard. The first time that I tried to type qwerty on that keyboard was a nightmare. I think that I was way too used to the flat keys of the Apple. Now however I've gotten used to the key travel. But I'm still not able to type a word properly without making a single mistake.

Offline raymogi

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 06:47:46 »
The Apple wireless keyboard in my office now is just a placeholder. I store my HHKB when it's not in use and pull out the Apple keyboard. So in case someone wanna steal it, they steal the Apple board :D
 
As for using it, I can't imagine going back to Apple after using a mechanical board. The feel is just so different. Typing becomes a joyful thing to do now.
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Offline smknjoe

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 07:06:35 »
Right now, I moved back to QWERTY and its no picnic. I need to get good at it quickly. I was wondering if the mechanical keyboard would help in that sense.

"Mechs" (they are all mechs really) really offer no advantage unless you consider the ability to mod an advantage. Use whatever you are most comfortable with and practice typing 15-20 minutes a day. In 6-8 weeks you'll be an expert. Good luck!

...one thing that seemed to help me learn to type was the blank keycaps I got on my first Leopold Otaku. I had no choice but to remember where the keys were.
SSKs for everyone!

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 07:33:34 »
...one thing that seemed to help me learn to type was the blank keycaps I got on my first Leopold Otaku. I had no choice but to remember where the keys were.

When  I was learning Colemak, I struggled for two years to be able to type a single sentence without a mistake. This wasn't because I didn't know where the keys were; just getting my fingers to follow my brain. And this was cold-turkey. no changing the keys or anything.

Now I feel the same thing with QWERTY.. the only layout where I didn't struggle as much was Dvorak. I know people have issues with it in terms of the shortcuts and pinky usage, etc... but the only reason  I went from Dvorak to Colemak was so that I would be able to use the keyboard shortcuts. And now the only reason that I'm going back to QWERTY is to be able to type on any keyboard. I wanted to be universally proficient.

I will say this. At the time I was learning Colemak, my office was getting rid of its old HP workstation keyboards. These were standard ones but a joy to type on. They felt perfect. So I got two of those. One for my computer at home and one for my computer at work. With those I made great progress. I think it was having the same constant feel all the time. :)

Now the computers have changed in both places, those keyboards are gone too. Maybe I need to get myself a Logitech MK270 combo for my mac  at home as well. Haha..

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 09 September 2015, 00:47:51 »
i go back and forth between a hhkb and a macbook keyboard which is pretty much identical to the discrete apple keyboards. i can type plenty fast on the macbook without looking -- in fact, low travel keys are preferred by a lot of heavy-use touch typists.

I think that you might have a point about that. I tried out the mechanical keyboard and after typing on the Apple all this time, it did feel quite awkward.
The keyboard uses Cherry MX blues. Perhaps it was because that those were first time using a mechanical keyboard. Or maybe I just got too used to the low travel of the Apple keys.

Offline jerue

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 11 September 2015, 13:21:13 »
I have an Apple wireless keyboard and really like it.

I would say just keep learning on what you have now, and buy a much better keyboard later on. You will need to adjust to the size and layout/key travel regardless, so may as well learn while you can.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 16:32:18 »
I think that the Apple keyboard is pretty much the best one that I've owned so far.
I did have a brief stint with a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000, but soon found out that by using a one of those, you never really made any progress with typing on normal keyboards.
« Last Edit: Sat, 12 September 2015, 17:13:20 by knightjp »

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 17:03:58 »
Trick question.  Both the Apple and Razer are subpar.
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Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 17:14:45 »
Trick question.  Both the Apple and Razer are subpar.

Quite a bold statement. Especially with the Razer. What would you say is a better keyboard?

Offline njbair

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 18:01:10 »
Trick question.  Both the Apple and Razer are subpar.

Quite a bold statement. Especially with the Razer. What would you say is a better keyboard?
That's not a bold statement at all. Apple makes nice looking, overpriced stuff. Razer makes overpriced, goofy looking stuff.

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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 18:23:13 »
Trick question.  Both the Apple and Razer are subpar.

Quite a bold statement. Especially with the Razer. What would you say is a better keyboard?
That's not a bold statement at all. Apple makes nice looking, overpriced stuff. Razer makes overpriced, goofy looking stuff.

We shouldn't scare off the new users too much.

In the end, whatever keyboard works best for you is the best keyboard.  And if that is an Apple keyboard, great.  They are well built for a scissor switch rubber dome.
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Offline njbair

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 18:32:40 »
We shouldn't scare off the new users too much.

But if I don't flaunt my elite-ness, the new users will have nothing to aspire towards.

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Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 03:15:43 »
Trick question.  Both the Apple and Razer are subpar.

Actually the Apple keyboard is quite good for what it is.  I used mine for several years before getting into modern mechanical keyboards, and none of them missed a beat.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 03:45:15 »
We shouldn't scare off the new users too much.

In the end, whatever keyboard works best for you is the best keyboard.  And if that is an Apple keyboard, great.  They are well built for a scissor switch rubber dome.

LOL.. Don't worry about me. I don't scare easily. I'm pretty much ready for any kind of comment. But I appreciate those looking out for me. :)

As for Mr. Elite-ness... I'm pretty sure that he uses a HHKB or a Das Professional. Or just maybe he is one the elite who still uses an IBM model M. 

Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 03:51:04 »
We shouldn't scare off the new users too much.

In the end, whatever keyboard works best for you is the best keyboard.  And if that is an Apple keyboard, great.  They are well built for a scissor switch rubber dome.

LOL.. Don't worry about me. I don't scare easily. I'm pretty much ready for any kind of comment. But I appreciate those looking out for me. :)

As for Mr. Elite-ness... I'm pretty sure that he uses a HHKB or a Das Professional. Or just maybe he is one the elite who still uses an IBM model M. 

I still use an IBM Model M.  Actually I have 4 of them and rotate them from time to time.  What's wrong with that?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 05:16:08 »
I still use an IBM Model M.  Actually I have 4 of them and rotate them from time to time.  What's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing. The IBM is truly one of the greatest and most sought after keyboards I think. If you have 4, hold on to those. Anyone who knows computers wants one. Had a look on ebay and those are pricey. Its like a classic Rolls Royce of  keyboards. I think that DAS is attempting to get the same feel with their keyboards and are probably nearly there with it.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 05:23:12 »
I still use an IBM Model M.  Actually I have 4 of them and rotate them from time to time.  What's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing. The IBM is truly one of the greatest and most sought after keyboards I think. If you have 4, hold on to those. Anyone who knows computers wants one. Had a look on ebay and those are pricey. Its like a classic Rolls Royce of  keyboards. I think that DAS is attempting to get the same feel with their keyboards and are probably nearly there with it.

If they are not using buckling springs, then they are not close to the feel.

Unicomp still makes buckling spring keyboards, and that's about as close as you'll get with something modern.

However there are lots of conversion options for the older original BS keyboards :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 05:54:40 »
If they are not using buckling springs, then they are not close to the feel.

Unicomp still makes buckling spring keyboards, and that's about as close as you'll get with something modern.

However there are lots of conversion options for the older original BS keyboards :)

Having a look at the Unicomp keyboards. They seem pretty good and not too expensive I think.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 21:52:35 »
If they are not using buckling springs, then they are not close to the feel.

Unicomp still makes buckling spring keyboards, and that's about as close as you'll get with something modern.

However there are lots of conversion options for the older original BS keyboards :)

Having a look at the Unicomp keyboards. They seem pretty good and not too expensive I think.

They are not bad, although the quality has slipped a little since the IBM days.  Apparently the manufacturing equipment has worn out.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 14 September 2015, 00:04:51 »
The Unicomp keyboards seem rather great and I may get one at a later date. However getting back to the main reason for this thread. Apple vs Mechanical.
I suppose that anyone would say that any mechanical keyboard is better than the Apple keyboard. And I'm sure that in most cases, that would certainly be the case. However the with the Razer, I'm not sure in this case.

Having tried them both, I feel that my speed is better and I'm more comfortable on the Apple keyboard. I'm still no where able to type a single word or sentence without making 1000s of mistakes, but I feel my abilities worse on the Razor.


Offline Oobly

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 14 September 2015, 03:56:27 »
 It depends tm

The Apple board won't be able to teach you to reduce bottom-out force, which is useful for preventing long-term damage to fingers and hands, since the actuation occurs at bottom out. With the Razer the actution occurs half way through the stroke and that's an important difference between "membrane" and "mechanical" boards and a part of what makes them "better".
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 14 September 2015, 05:37:39 »
Although with the Apple keyboard you don't need that much force, and the travel distance is sufficiently low, that finger/wrist pain is less likely to occur.

It's also a lot flatter, meaning that you don't need a wrist rest, and don't need to raise your hands as much when typing.

Although a wrist rest coupled with a mechanical keyboard will alleviate the former, and adjusting your chair's height the latter.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 01:49:16 »
All l can say is that the Apple keyboard feels a bit more comfortable for me at the moment. Maybe I'm just too used to the low travel of the keys. I think that using the mechanical would be better in the overall scheme of things, if I intend to be a proficient touch-typist on any system.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 05:16:43 »
I went back to my Apple keyboard a little while ago, and it took me ages to get accustomed to it.  But when I switched back again to a conventional mechanical keyboard I realised how much I prefer the mechanical switches.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Coreda

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 05:20:00 »
Mechanical keyboard is 1000x better
No offense to Apple but those keyboards are kinda **** for typing which is the purpose of keyboards right?

This is a meme that needs to die. Apple boards are decent, and the low travel and profile make them a good choice for a rubber dome board.

Mechanicals will feel better long term however.

Offline njbair

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 07:39:13 »
We shouldn't scare off the new users too much.

In the end, whatever keyboard works best for you is the best keyboard.  And if that is an Apple keyboard, great.  They are well built for a scissor switch rubber dome.

LOL.. Don't worry about me. I don't scare easily. I'm pretty much ready for any kind of comment. But I appreciate those looking out for me. :)

As for Mr. Elite-ness... I'm pretty sure that he uses a HHKB or a Das Professional. Or just maybe he is one the elite who still uses an IBM model M.
But an HHKB owner, and i haven't drunk the Topre kool-aid. I'm actually using my IBM SSK this week, but before that most of my typing has been on my 60% customs

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Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 08:02:46 »
But an HHKB owner, and i haven't drunk the Topre kool-aid. I'm actually using my IBM SSK this week, but before that most of my typing has been on my 60% customs

So I take it that you don't like the HHKB. Or you don't believe that the switches are any better than the ones from Cherry MX.

Offline njbair

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 11:47:30 »
But an HHKB owner, and i haven't drunk the Topre kool-aid. I'm actually using my IBM SSK this week, but before that most of my typing has been on my 60% customs

So I take it that you don't like the HHKB. Or you don't believe that the switches are any better than the ones from Cherry MX.
I like custom built stuff, and Topre/HHKB don't provide many options for that. I'll take a raw PCB and a pile of diodes and switches over a HHKB any day.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 12:46:54 »
Mechanical keyboard is 1000x better
No offense to Apple but those keyboards are kinda **** for typing which is the purpose of keyboards right?

This is a meme that needs to die. Apple boards are decent, and the low travel and profile make them a good choice for a rubber dome board.

Mechanicals will feel better long term however.

Those Apple keyboards are absolute ****.  You could not pay me to use one.  I prefer fingers that don't hurt after an extended typing session.  The height and angle are also all kinds of wrong and they make the home keys hard as hell to find.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 14:57:44 »
I've always been a fan of the apple keyboards. Never had any issues with them. Anyone remembers this?


It was one of my favourite ones. I like the low action of the keys. It is sort of a laptop style keyboard.
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 September 2015, 16:11:21 by knightjp »

Offline slip84

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 19:24:16 »
I've always been a fan of the apple keyboards. Never had any issues with them. Anyone remembers this?
Show Image


It was one of my favourite ones. I like the low action of the keys. It is sort of a laptop style keyboard.

Those were soooooo gross. I still have one and it's a gross collection of hair and whatever else. Yuck.

The ones such as the original poster linked are great. I hit my highest WPM on those and they feel great to me. But to each his own, right?

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 23:58:54 »
Those were soooooo gross. I still have one and it's a gross collection of hair and whatever else. Yuck.

The ones such as the original poster linked are great. I hit my highest WPM on those and they feel great to me. But to each his own, right?

The ones with the black keys were good for me. I've never had an issue with them. I suppose that it was quite easy for dirt and stuff to get in under the keys, but that is about the same with all the other ordinary keyboards as well. Just requires a good cleaning from time to time. However, the overall feel of them when typing were pretty nice. I used to type well on those.

With the current one that I have, the wired, aluminium body one, I type about the same speed. But since my stints with Dvorak and Colemak have kind of messed up my muscle memory. So I'm not have a great experience as I used to. I do find the feel of the keys rather good. Clicky and responsive.

Offline Coreda

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 16 September 2015, 08:27:58 »
Those Apple keyboards are absolute ****.  You could not pay me to use one.  I prefer fingers that don't hurt after an extended typing session.  The height and angle are also all kinds of wrong and they make the home keys hard as hell to find.

I'm only accustomed to my Macbook board for light use so can't directly comment on the standalone boards but for light use mine is fine and the low profile and flat angle is comfy. The problem is when it's an old board the keys are less snappy, and if it's seeing moderate to heavy use for hours at a time it's easier to get sore finger tips.

Mostly I'm just tired of the hyperbole around Apple chiclets. It always has to be that mechs are '1000x times' better, or the Apple board is 'the worst thing humans have ever invented'. No, users should describe the pros and cons for an OP coming from one so they can decide for themselves. The rest is unhelpful.

Offline dgneo

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 16 September 2015, 08:56:18 »
I've always been a fan of the apple keyboards. Never had any issues with them. Anyone remembers this?
Show Image


It was one of my favourite ones. I like the low action of the keys. It is sort of a laptop style keyboard.



I was always a big fan of this model, and still have one kicking around, even though it blows to type on. Apple nailed aesthetics with this one.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 16 September 2015, 11:00:47 »
Show Image


I was always a big fan of this model, and still have one kicking around, even though it blows to type on. Apple nailed aesthetics with this one.

You are correct. I used to have one of those too. However unlike the ones with the black keys, as it aged, the keys on that one used to get sticky and hard to press. I remember removing one to bits and putting it back together to try and get it to work and make the keys normal again, but it just wouldn't work. That was the reason that I bought a microsoft ergonomic keyboard and many others after it.

Mind you aside from the Apple keyboards, I liked the HP ones that used to come with the workstations.

This one...


I think this one is probably the second most favourite standard issue keyboard after the IBM model M. They were not in any way mechanical, but they just had the feel just right. I still think that I got one of those around somewhere. From what I remember, my brother spilled Coke on it and that is why he bought the Razer.

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 16 September 2015, 11:21:51 »
More
Those Apple keyboards are absolute ****.  You could not pay me to use one.  I prefer fingers that don't hurt after an extended typing session.  The height and angle are also all kinds of wrong and they make the home keys hard as hell to find.

I'm only accustomed to my Macbook board for light use so can't directly comment on the standalone boards but for light use mine is fine and the low profile and flat angle is comfy. The problem is when it's an old board the keys are less snappy, and if it's seeing moderate to heavy use for hours at a time it's easier to get sore finger tips.

Mostly I'm just tired of the hyperbole around Apple chiclets. It always has to be that mechs are '1000x times' better, or the Apple board is 'the worst thing humans have ever invented'. No, users should describe the pros and cons for an OP coming from one so they can decide for themselves. The rest is unhelpful.

I have a MBP Retina and the keyboard is okay.  Nothing great, but nothing awful either.  Those wireless Chiclet Apple keyboards are just awful though.  I've tried both new ones and old well used ones and all have felt like ****. 

There was no hyperbole in my statement, just how I feel they're horrible and reasons why.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 16 September 2015, 13:10:09 »
I took my old Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 out of mothballs just to try out today. I still felt the Apple keyboard better than it.

At this office, I have this old electronic typewriter. Today I had to use it for filling out a form. The feel of that keyboard was just so nice. I've never tried an IBM model M, but if the feel of the Unicomp keyboards are exactly the same, I'll know that I'll be happy with one of those.  :cool:

Offline microsoft windows

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 09:23:53 »
I currently have an Apple full size wired keyboard, exactly as the one below.
Show Image


My brother has a Razor gaming mechanical keyboard just lying around and I was wondering if that is better to use. I like the Apple keyboard, but which would be better as I'm just trying to learn to touch-type on qwerty.

YOU NEED TO THROW AWAY YOUR APPLE KEYBOARD. IT IS A PIECE OF ****. GET A MECHANICAL KEYBOARD AND THERE'LL BE NO LOOKING BACK.
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Offline digi

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 09:39:14 »
Yea, sorry but I'm going to have to agree with MS Windows.


+

=

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 10:42:50 »
Did try the Razer Mechanical keyboard. Looked back almost immediately when the little typing that I was able to do went straight down the toilet. I gave it a whirl for a whole day and didn't find it comfortable at all.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 03:09:00 »
Show Image


I was always a big fan of this model, and still have one kicking around, even though it blows to type on. Apple nailed aesthetics with this one.

You are correct. I used to have one of those too. However unlike the ones with the black keys, as it aged, the keys on that one used to get sticky and hard to press. I remember removing one to bits and putting it back together to try and get it to work and make the keys normal again, but it just wouldn't work. That was the reason that I bought a microsoft ergonomic keyboard and many others after it.

Mind you aside from the Apple keyboards, I liked the HP ones that used to come with the workstations.

This one...
Show Image


I think this one is probably the second most favourite standard issue keyboard after the IBM model M. They were not in any way mechanical, but they just had the feel just right. I still think that I got one of those around somewhere. From what I remember, my brother spilled Coke on it and that is why he bought the Razer.

That HP keyboard is absolutely the most dreadful keyboard I had to use ever in my whole entire life! I was at a development company for three years where I had to type on one (before I was into mech keyboards). It missed so much of my keystrokes  (and I went through 5 of those boards, all the same) I almost couldn't believe that a keyboard could be so bad. And then, in university, they had them again! The horror!
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Offline ideus

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 08:13:50 »
I've always been a fan of the apple keyboards. Never had any issues with them. Anyone remembers this?
Show Image


It was one of my favourite ones. I like the low action of the keys. It is sort of a laptop style keyboard.

Show Image


I was always a big fan of this model, and still have one kicking around, even though it blows to type on. Apple nailed aesthetics with this one.

Aesthetics is always a top priority in Apple's design agenda, I just wonder if people want a keyboard to stare at it or to type.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 08:14:48 »
I was always a big fan of this model ..... even though it blows to type on.

My daughter had one of those, and I seriously think that it was the worst keyboard I have ever used.

And hideously ugly too, even without the clear bottom that shows off your board chow and the inherently greasy key feel.
The difference in characterization of crime and who commits it skews what criminality looks like demographically. "What we're seeing so far is very similar to the process that we see with Islamic violent Jihad radicalization," said former FBI Assistant Director Frank Figliuzzi, "This wanting to belong to a cause greater than yourself, wanting to get affirmation from a group who may not even know who you are or ever met you. And then feeling like you're part of this deployment, this cause. You heard him say on the clip 'It's my job to protect this.'
No, it's not your job. But you think it is. And video last night shows him walking around roaming around with the assault rifle not really doing much of protecting anything." Figliuzzi made it clear that calling these characters "troubled" is a misnomer. "I would assert," Figliuzzi continued. "that it's time we stopped using the word ‘troubled’ with regard to white young people who act out like this and start thinking about the radicalized term that we used when people of color or people of Islamic faith act out like this. This is a radicalization process that's happening. It happened with the El Paso shooter in Texas. We kept hearing he was troubled. No, he was radicalized. And it's happening online."

Offline dgneo

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 08:18:29 »
I was always a big fan of this model ..... even though it blows to type on.

My daughter had one of those, and I seriously think that it was the worst keyboard I have ever used.

And hideously ugly too, even without the clear bottom that shows off your board chow and the inherently greasy key feel.


I liked the small, almost non-existent bezel, which is what I think attracted me to it originally, but agreed on every other part. Typing on it is just completely awful.

Offline ideus

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 08:20:20 »
I was always a big fan of this model ..... even though it blows to type on.

My daughter had one of those, and I seriously think that it was the worst keyboard I have ever used.

And hideously ugly too, even without the clear bottom that shows off your board chow and the inherently greasy key feel.


I liked the small, almost non-existent bezel, which is what I think attracted me to it originally, but agreed on every other part. Typing on it is just completely awful.

You still can admire it in contemplation nirvana. That experience cannot be replaced by an ugly, noisy, mechanical keyboard.