Author Topic: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical  (Read 39024 times)

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Offline knightjp

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Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 03:53:50 »
I currently have an Apple full size wired keyboard, exactly as the one below.


My brother has a Razor gaming mechanical keyboard just lying around and I was wondering if that is better to use. I like the Apple keyboard, but which would be better as I'm just trying to learn to touch-type on qwerty.

Offline ajx

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 04:11:21 »
Mechanical keyboard is 1000x better
No offense to Apple but those keyboards are kinda **** for typing which is the purpose of keyboards right?

Offline sth

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 04:16:54 »
touch typing is not intrinsically linked to keyswitch and only marginally important when you consider the 'pressable' area of the key, because the spacing is still the same no matter which board you use.

 i go back and forth between a hhkb and a macbook keyboard which is pretty much identical to the discrete apple keyboards. i can type plenty fast on the macbook without looking -- in fact, low travel keys are preferred by a lot of heavy-use touch typists.

my advice is to not worry about the specific keyboard when it comes to touch typing. worry about the specific keyboard for other reasons such as ergonomics, build quality, and goofy keycaps.
11:48 -!- SmallFry [~SmallFry@unaffiliated/smallfry] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] ... rest in peace

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 04:54:47 »
Mechanical keyboard is 1000x better
No offense to Apple but those keyboards are kinda **** for typing which is the purpose of keyboards right?

If I'm completely honest, while I was using Colemak or Dvorak, the Apple keyboard was simply amazing. It still is. Its not mechanical, but it has the right feel. Don't get that same feel from any other chiclet keyboard. I've tried quite a few. 
I'm happy to continue using the Apple keyboard. It has served me well and I think that it will continue to do so for a long time to come.
I notice that the keys on the Apple keyboard seem slightly harder when compared to Razor.

Right now, I moved back to QWERTY and its no picnic. I need to get good at it quickly. I was wondering if the mechanical keyboard would help in that sense.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 05:56:34 »
I have both, although not a Razer, but a few other modern mechanical keyboards.

I though the Apple keyboard was pretty good (apart from one I used at work that used to give me regular electric shocks).

I tried using it again (not the shocking one, the other one) recently, and it just felt flat and lifeless in comparison to most of my mechanical keyboards.

As you have the option of trying both, do so (preferably for a few days or a week if you can), and see what you think.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 06:44:10 »
I suppose the feel of the keyboard is pretty important.

For most of my day while I'm at work. I use a PC with a Logitech MK270 wireless keyboard. The first time that I tried to type qwerty on that keyboard was a nightmare. I think that I was way too used to the flat keys of the Apple. Now however I've gotten used to the key travel. But I'm still not able to type a word properly without making a single mistake.

Offline raymogi

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 06:47:46 »
The Apple wireless keyboard in my office now is just a placeholder. I store my HHKB when it's not in use and pull out the Apple keyboard. So in case someone wanna steal it, they steal the Apple board :D
 
As for using it, I can't imagine going back to Apple after using a mechanical board. The feel is just so different. Typing becomes a joyful thing to do now.
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Offline smknjoe

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 07:06:35 »
Right now, I moved back to QWERTY and its no picnic. I need to get good at it quickly. I was wondering if the mechanical keyboard would help in that sense.

"Mechs" (they are all mechs really) really offer no advantage unless you consider the ability to mod an advantage. Use whatever you are most comfortable with and practice typing 15-20 minutes a day. In 6-8 weeks you'll be an expert. Good luck!

...one thing that seemed to help me learn to type was the blank keycaps I got on my first Leopold Otaku. I had no choice but to remember where the keys were.
SSKs for everyone!

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 08 September 2015, 07:33:34 »
...one thing that seemed to help me learn to type was the blank keycaps I got on my first Leopold Otaku. I had no choice but to remember where the keys were.

When  I was learning Colemak, I struggled for two years to be able to type a single sentence without a mistake. This wasn't because I didn't know where the keys were; just getting my fingers to follow my brain. And this was cold-turkey. no changing the keys or anything.

Now I feel the same thing with QWERTY.. the only layout where I didn't struggle as much was Dvorak. I know people have issues with it in terms of the shortcuts and pinky usage, etc... but the only reason  I went from Dvorak to Colemak was so that I would be able to use the keyboard shortcuts. And now the only reason that I'm going back to QWERTY is to be able to type on any keyboard. I wanted to be universally proficient.

I will say this. At the time I was learning Colemak, my office was getting rid of its old HP workstation keyboards. These were standard ones but a joy to type on. They felt perfect. So I got two of those. One for my computer at home and one for my computer at work. With those I made great progress. I think it was having the same constant feel all the time. :)

Now the computers have changed in both places, those keyboards are gone too. Maybe I need to get myself a Logitech MK270 combo for my mac  at home as well. Haha..

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 09 September 2015, 00:47:51 »
i go back and forth between a hhkb and a macbook keyboard which is pretty much identical to the discrete apple keyboards. i can type plenty fast on the macbook without looking -- in fact, low travel keys are preferred by a lot of heavy-use touch typists.

I think that you might have a point about that. I tried out the mechanical keyboard and after typing on the Apple all this time, it did feel quite awkward.
The keyboard uses Cherry MX blues. Perhaps it was because that those were first time using a mechanical keyboard. Or maybe I just got too used to the low travel of the Apple keys.

Offline jerue

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 11 September 2015, 13:21:13 »
I have an Apple wireless keyboard and really like it.

I would say just keep learning on what you have now, and buy a much better keyboard later on. You will need to adjust to the size and layout/key travel regardless, so may as well learn while you can.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 16:32:18 »
I think that the Apple keyboard is pretty much the best one that I've owned so far.
I did have a brief stint with a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000, but soon found out that by using a one of those, you never really made any progress with typing on normal keyboards.
« Last Edit: Sat, 12 September 2015, 17:13:20 by knightjp »

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 17:03:58 »
Trick question.  Both the Apple and Razer are subpar.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 17:14:45 »
Trick question.  Both the Apple and Razer are subpar.

Quite a bold statement. Especially with the Razer. What would you say is a better keyboard?

Offline njbair

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 18:01:10 »
Trick question.  Both the Apple and Razer are subpar.

Quite a bold statement. Especially with the Razer. What would you say is a better keyboard?
That's not a bold statement at all. Apple makes nice looking, overpriced stuff. Razer makes overpriced, goofy looking stuff.

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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 18:23:13 »
Trick question.  Both the Apple and Razer are subpar.

Quite a bold statement. Especially with the Razer. What would you say is a better keyboard?
That's not a bold statement at all. Apple makes nice looking, overpriced stuff. Razer makes overpriced, goofy looking stuff.

We shouldn't scare off the new users too much.

In the end, whatever keyboard works best for you is the best keyboard.  And if that is an Apple keyboard, great.  They are well built for a scissor switch rubber dome.
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Offline njbair

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 18:32:40 »
We shouldn't scare off the new users too much.

But if I don't flaunt my elite-ness, the new users will have nothing to aspire towards.

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Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 03:15:43 »
Trick question.  Both the Apple and Razer are subpar.

Actually the Apple keyboard is quite good for what it is.  I used mine for several years before getting into modern mechanical keyboards, and none of them missed a beat.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 03:45:15 »
We shouldn't scare off the new users too much.

In the end, whatever keyboard works best for you is the best keyboard.  And if that is an Apple keyboard, great.  They are well built for a scissor switch rubber dome.

LOL.. Don't worry about me. I don't scare easily. I'm pretty much ready for any kind of comment. But I appreciate those looking out for me. :)

As for Mr. Elite-ness... I'm pretty sure that he uses a HHKB or a Das Professional. Or just maybe he is one the elite who still uses an IBM model M. 

Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 03:51:04 »
We shouldn't scare off the new users too much.

In the end, whatever keyboard works best for you is the best keyboard.  And if that is an Apple keyboard, great.  They are well built for a scissor switch rubber dome.

LOL.. Don't worry about me. I don't scare easily. I'm pretty much ready for any kind of comment. But I appreciate those looking out for me. :)

As for Mr. Elite-ness... I'm pretty sure that he uses a HHKB or a Das Professional. Or just maybe he is one the elite who still uses an IBM model M. 

I still use an IBM Model M.  Actually I have 4 of them and rotate them from time to time.  What's wrong with that?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 05:16:08 »
I still use an IBM Model M.  Actually I have 4 of them and rotate them from time to time.  What's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing. The IBM is truly one of the greatest and most sought after keyboards I think. If you have 4, hold on to those. Anyone who knows computers wants one. Had a look on ebay and those are pricey. Its like a classic Rolls Royce of  keyboards. I think that DAS is attempting to get the same feel with their keyboards and are probably nearly there with it.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 05:23:12 »
I still use an IBM Model M.  Actually I have 4 of them and rotate them from time to time.  What's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing. The IBM is truly one of the greatest and most sought after keyboards I think. If you have 4, hold on to those. Anyone who knows computers wants one. Had a look on ebay and those are pricey. Its like a classic Rolls Royce of  keyboards. I think that DAS is attempting to get the same feel with their keyboards and are probably nearly there with it.

If they are not using buckling springs, then they are not close to the feel.

Unicomp still makes buckling spring keyboards, and that's about as close as you'll get with something modern.

However there are lots of conversion options for the older original BS keyboards :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 05:54:40 »
If they are not using buckling springs, then they are not close to the feel.

Unicomp still makes buckling spring keyboards, and that's about as close as you'll get with something modern.

However there are lots of conversion options for the older original BS keyboards :)

Having a look at the Unicomp keyboards. They seem pretty good and not too expensive I think.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 13 September 2015, 21:52:35 »
If they are not using buckling springs, then they are not close to the feel.

Unicomp still makes buckling spring keyboards, and that's about as close as you'll get with something modern.

However there are lots of conversion options for the older original BS keyboards :)

Having a look at the Unicomp keyboards. They seem pretty good and not too expensive I think.

They are not bad, although the quality has slipped a little since the IBM days.  Apparently the manufacturing equipment has worn out.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 14 September 2015, 00:04:51 »
The Unicomp keyboards seem rather great and I may get one at a later date. However getting back to the main reason for this thread. Apple vs Mechanical.
I suppose that anyone would say that any mechanical keyboard is better than the Apple keyboard. And I'm sure that in most cases, that would certainly be the case. However the with the Razer, I'm not sure in this case.

Having tried them both, I feel that my speed is better and I'm more comfortable on the Apple keyboard. I'm still no where able to type a single word or sentence without making 1000s of mistakes, but I feel my abilities worse on the Razor.


Offline Oobly

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 14 September 2015, 03:56:27 »
 It depends tm

The Apple board won't be able to teach you to reduce bottom-out force, which is useful for preventing long-term damage to fingers and hands, since the actuation occurs at bottom out. With the Razer the actution occurs half way through the stroke and that's an important difference between "membrane" and "mechanical" boards and a part of what makes them "better".
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 14 September 2015, 05:37:39 »
Although with the Apple keyboard you don't need that much force, and the travel distance is sufficiently low, that finger/wrist pain is less likely to occur.

It's also a lot flatter, meaning that you don't need a wrist rest, and don't need to raise your hands as much when typing.

Although a wrist rest coupled with a mechanical keyboard will alleviate the former, and adjusting your chair's height the latter.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 01:49:16 »
All l can say is that the Apple keyboard feels a bit more comfortable for me at the moment. Maybe I'm just too used to the low travel of the keys. I think that using the mechanical would be better in the overall scheme of things, if I intend to be a proficient touch-typist on any system.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 05:16:43 »
I went back to my Apple keyboard a little while ago, and it took me ages to get accustomed to it.  But when I switched back again to a conventional mechanical keyboard I realised how much I prefer the mechanical switches.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Coreda

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 05:20:00 »
Mechanical keyboard is 1000x better
No offense to Apple but those keyboards are kinda **** for typing which is the purpose of keyboards right?

This is a meme that needs to die. Apple boards are decent, and the low travel and profile make them a good choice for a rubber dome board.

Mechanicals will feel better long term however.

Offline njbair

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 07:39:13 »
We shouldn't scare off the new users too much.

In the end, whatever keyboard works best for you is the best keyboard.  And if that is an Apple keyboard, great.  They are well built for a scissor switch rubber dome.

LOL.. Don't worry about me. I don't scare easily. I'm pretty much ready for any kind of comment. But I appreciate those looking out for me. :)

As for Mr. Elite-ness... I'm pretty sure that he uses a HHKB or a Das Professional. Or just maybe he is one the elite who still uses an IBM model M.
But an HHKB owner, and i haven't drunk the Topre kool-aid. I'm actually using my IBM SSK this week, but before that most of my typing has been on my 60% customs

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Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 08:02:46 »
But an HHKB owner, and i haven't drunk the Topre kool-aid. I'm actually using my IBM SSK this week, but before that most of my typing has been on my 60% customs

So I take it that you don't like the HHKB. Or you don't believe that the switches are any better than the ones from Cherry MX.

Offline njbair

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 11:47:30 »
But an HHKB owner, and i haven't drunk the Topre kool-aid. I'm actually using my IBM SSK this week, but before that most of my typing has been on my 60% customs

So I take it that you don't like the HHKB. Or you don't believe that the switches are any better than the ones from Cherry MX.
I like custom built stuff, and Topre/HHKB don't provide many options for that. I'll take a raw PCB and a pile of diodes and switches over a HHKB any day.

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 12:46:54 »
Mechanical keyboard is 1000x better
No offense to Apple but those keyboards are kinda **** for typing which is the purpose of keyboards right?

This is a meme that needs to die. Apple boards are decent, and the low travel and profile make them a good choice for a rubber dome board.

Mechanicals will feel better long term however.

Those Apple keyboards are absolute ****.  You could not pay me to use one.  I prefer fingers that don't hurt after an extended typing session.  The height and angle are also all kinds of wrong and they make the home keys hard as hell to find.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 14:57:44 »
I've always been a fan of the apple keyboards. Never had any issues with them. Anyone remembers this?


It was one of my favourite ones. I like the low action of the keys. It is sort of a laptop style keyboard.
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 September 2015, 16:11:21 by knightjp »

Offline slip84

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 19:24:16 »
I've always been a fan of the apple keyboards. Never had any issues with them. Anyone remembers this?
Show Image


It was one of my favourite ones. I like the low action of the keys. It is sort of a laptop style keyboard.

Those were soooooo gross. I still have one and it's a gross collection of hair and whatever else. Yuck.

The ones such as the original poster linked are great. I hit my highest WPM on those and they feel great to me. But to each his own, right?

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 15 September 2015, 23:58:54 »
Those were soooooo gross. I still have one and it's a gross collection of hair and whatever else. Yuck.

The ones such as the original poster linked are great. I hit my highest WPM on those and they feel great to me. But to each his own, right?

The ones with the black keys were good for me. I've never had an issue with them. I suppose that it was quite easy for dirt and stuff to get in under the keys, but that is about the same with all the other ordinary keyboards as well. Just requires a good cleaning from time to time. However, the overall feel of them when typing were pretty nice. I used to type well on those.

With the current one that I have, the wired, aluminium body one, I type about the same speed. But since my stints with Dvorak and Colemak have kind of messed up my muscle memory. So I'm not have a great experience as I used to. I do find the feel of the keys rather good. Clicky and responsive.

Offline Coreda

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 16 September 2015, 08:27:58 »
Those Apple keyboards are absolute ****.  You could not pay me to use one.  I prefer fingers that don't hurt after an extended typing session.  The height and angle are also all kinds of wrong and they make the home keys hard as hell to find.

I'm only accustomed to my Macbook board for light use so can't directly comment on the standalone boards but for light use mine is fine and the low profile and flat angle is comfy. The problem is when it's an old board the keys are less snappy, and if it's seeing moderate to heavy use for hours at a time it's easier to get sore finger tips.

Mostly I'm just tired of the hyperbole around Apple chiclets. It always has to be that mechs are '1000x times' better, or the Apple board is 'the worst thing humans have ever invented'. No, users should describe the pros and cons for an OP coming from one so they can decide for themselves. The rest is unhelpful.

Offline dgneo

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 16 September 2015, 08:56:18 »
I've always been a fan of the apple keyboards. Never had any issues with them. Anyone remembers this?
Show Image


It was one of my favourite ones. I like the low action of the keys. It is sort of a laptop style keyboard.



I was always a big fan of this model, and still have one kicking around, even though it blows to type on. Apple nailed aesthetics with this one.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 16 September 2015, 11:00:47 »
Show Image


I was always a big fan of this model, and still have one kicking around, even though it blows to type on. Apple nailed aesthetics with this one.

You are correct. I used to have one of those too. However unlike the ones with the black keys, as it aged, the keys on that one used to get sticky and hard to press. I remember removing one to bits and putting it back together to try and get it to work and make the keys normal again, but it just wouldn't work. That was the reason that I bought a microsoft ergonomic keyboard and many others after it.

Mind you aside from the Apple keyboards, I liked the HP ones that used to come with the workstations.

This one...


I think this one is probably the second most favourite standard issue keyboard after the IBM model M. They were not in any way mechanical, but they just had the feel just right. I still think that I got one of those around somewhere. From what I remember, my brother spilled Coke on it and that is why he bought the Razer.

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 16 September 2015, 11:21:51 »
More
Those Apple keyboards are absolute ****.  You could not pay me to use one.  I prefer fingers that don't hurt after an extended typing session.  The height and angle are also all kinds of wrong and they make the home keys hard as hell to find.

I'm only accustomed to my Macbook board for light use so can't directly comment on the standalone boards but for light use mine is fine and the low profile and flat angle is comfy. The problem is when it's an old board the keys are less snappy, and if it's seeing moderate to heavy use for hours at a time it's easier to get sore finger tips.

Mostly I'm just tired of the hyperbole around Apple chiclets. It always has to be that mechs are '1000x times' better, or the Apple board is 'the worst thing humans have ever invented'. No, users should describe the pros and cons for an OP coming from one so they can decide for themselves. The rest is unhelpful.

I have a MBP Retina and the keyboard is okay.  Nothing great, but nothing awful either.  Those wireless Chiclet Apple keyboards are just awful though.  I've tried both new ones and old well used ones and all have felt like ****. 

There was no hyperbole in my statement, just how I feel they're horrible and reasons why.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 16 September 2015, 13:10:09 »
I took my old Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 out of mothballs just to try out today. I still felt the Apple keyboard better than it.

At this office, I have this old electronic typewriter. Today I had to use it for filling out a form. The feel of that keyboard was just so nice. I've never tried an IBM model M, but if the feel of the Unicomp keyboards are exactly the same, I'll know that I'll be happy with one of those.  :cool:

Offline microsoft windows

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 09:23:53 »
I currently have an Apple full size wired keyboard, exactly as the one below.
Show Image


My brother has a Razor gaming mechanical keyboard just lying around and I was wondering if that is better to use. I like the Apple keyboard, but which would be better as I'm just trying to learn to touch-type on qwerty.

YOU NEED TO THROW AWAY YOUR APPLE KEYBOARD. IT IS A PIECE OF ****. GET A MECHANICAL KEYBOARD AND THERE'LL BE NO LOOKING BACK.
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Offline digi

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 09:39:14 »
Yea, sorry but I'm going to have to agree with MS Windows.


+

=

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 20 September 2015, 10:42:50 »
Did try the Razer Mechanical keyboard. Looked back almost immediately when the little typing that I was able to do went straight down the toilet. I gave it a whirl for a whole day and didn't find it comfortable at all.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 03:09:00 »
Show Image


I was always a big fan of this model, and still have one kicking around, even though it blows to type on. Apple nailed aesthetics with this one.

You are correct. I used to have one of those too. However unlike the ones with the black keys, as it aged, the keys on that one used to get sticky and hard to press. I remember removing one to bits and putting it back together to try and get it to work and make the keys normal again, but it just wouldn't work. That was the reason that I bought a microsoft ergonomic keyboard and many others after it.

Mind you aside from the Apple keyboards, I liked the HP ones that used to come with the workstations.

This one...
Show Image


I think this one is probably the second most favourite standard issue keyboard after the IBM model M. They were not in any way mechanical, but they just had the feel just right. I still think that I got one of those around somewhere. From what I remember, my brother spilled Coke on it and that is why he bought the Razer.

That HP keyboard is absolutely the most dreadful keyboard I had to use ever in my whole entire life! I was at a development company for three years where I had to type on one (before I was into mech keyboards). It missed so much of my keystrokes  (and I went through 5 of those boards, all the same) I almost couldn't believe that a keyboard could be so bad. And then, in university, they had them again! The horror!
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Offline ideus

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 08:13:50 »
I've always been a fan of the apple keyboards. Never had any issues with them. Anyone remembers this?
Show Image


It was one of my favourite ones. I like the low action of the keys. It is sort of a laptop style keyboard.

Show Image


I was always a big fan of this model, and still have one kicking around, even though it blows to type on. Apple nailed aesthetics with this one.

Aesthetics is always a top priority in Apple's design agenda, I just wonder if people want a keyboard to stare at it or to type.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 08:14:48 »
I was always a big fan of this model ..... even though it blows to type on.

My daughter had one of those, and I seriously think that it was the worst keyboard I have ever used.

And hideously ugly too, even without the clear bottom that shows off your board chow and the inherently greasy key feel.
The difference in characterization of crime and who commits it skews what criminality looks like demographically. "What we're seeing so far is very similar to the process that we see with Islamic violent Jihad radicalization," said former FBI Assistant Director Frank Figliuzzi, "This wanting to belong to a cause greater than yourself, wanting to get affirmation from a group who may not even know who you are or ever met you. And then feeling like you're part of this deployment, this cause. You heard him say on the clip 'It's my job to protect this.'
No, it's not your job. But you think it is. And video last night shows him walking around roaming around with the assault rifle not really doing much of protecting anything." Figliuzzi made it clear that calling these characters "troubled" is a misnomer. "I would assert," Figliuzzi continued. "that it's time we stopped using the word ‘troubled’ with regard to white young people who act out like this and start thinking about the radicalized term that we used when people of color or people of Islamic faith act out like this. This is a radicalization process that's happening. It happened with the El Paso shooter in Texas. We kept hearing he was troubled. No, he was radicalized. And it's happening online."

Offline dgneo

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 08:18:29 »
I was always a big fan of this model ..... even though it blows to type on.

My daughter had one of those, and I seriously think that it was the worst keyboard I have ever used.

And hideously ugly too, even without the clear bottom that shows off your board chow and the inherently greasy key feel.


I liked the small, almost non-existent bezel, which is what I think attracted me to it originally, but agreed on every other part. Typing on it is just completely awful.

Offline ideus

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 08:20:20 »
I was always a big fan of this model ..... even though it blows to type on.

My daughter had one of those, and I seriously think that it was the worst keyboard I have ever used.

And hideously ugly too, even without the clear bottom that shows off your board chow and the inherently greasy key feel.


I liked the small, almost non-existent bezel, which is what I think attracted me to it originally, but agreed on every other part. Typing on it is just completely awful.

You still can admire it in contemplation nirvana. That experience cannot be replaced by an ugly, noisy, mechanical keyboard.

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1646
Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 10:12:19 »
Apart from the mech superiority, apple keyboards are pretty tolerable to type on
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline daerid

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 10:19:20 »
Apart from the mech superiority, apple keyboards are pretty tolerable to type on

This. If I'm not on my Topre or one of my CODEs, I want to be on an Apple keyboard. They absolutely nailed the good-feeling chiclet-style keyboard. No other low-profile board has ever come close.

Offline Altis

  • Posts: 951
  • Location: Canada
Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 10:40:59 »
Did try the Razer Mechanical keyboard. Looked back almost immediately when the little typing that I was able to do went straight down the toilet. I gave it a whirl for a whole day and didn't find it comfortable at all.

They're certainly quite different. I use an Apple keyboard sometimes, and I actually really liked it for a long time. You might find that you really like something like a Topre switch keyboard (Realforce 87U for example).

The Razer keyboard and switches are certainly not the only mechanicals out there!
WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Keytrak (Blue Alps) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- G80-1800 (MX Blue) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad

Offline knightjp

  • Thread Starter
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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 10:48:00 »
From what i hear, Apple made a mechanical keyboard in the 80s called the Apple Extended Keyboard. From what I'm reading online, it was one of the best keyboards Apple ever made and is still desirable today; just like IBM's Model M.
I believe that the Matias Tactile Pro is an attempt to recreate that keyboard, so I'm wondering whether I should get one of those or the SpaceSaver one from Unicomp.

Offline ideus

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 12:14:21 »
Apart from the mech superiority, apple keyboards are pretty tolerable to type on

This. If I'm not on my Topre or one of my CODEs, I want to be on an Apple keyboard. They absolutely nailed the good-feeling chiclet-style keyboard. No other low-profile board has ever come close.

I am confused, is this the unpopular keyboard opinions thread?

 :p :p :p

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 12:28:37 »
From what i hear, Apple made a mechanical keyboard in the 80s called the Apple Extended Keyboard. From what I'm reading online, it was one of the best keyboards Apple ever made and is still desirable today; just like IBM's Model M.
I believe that the Matias Tactile Pro is an attempt to recreate that keyboard, so I'm wondering whether I should get one of those or the SpaceSaver one from Unicomp.

The AEK and AEK2 were good keyboards, I prefer the original with the orange or salmon Alps, but AEK2 is more common and cheaper.

You will need to have an ADB-to-USB converter to use them on a modern computer, and they are very prone to nasty yellowing.

edit: here are some nice-looking specimens at a good price:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75629.msg1878643#msg1878643
« Last Edit: Mon, 28 September 2015, 13:26:13 by fohat.digs »
The difference in characterization of crime and who commits it skews what criminality looks like demographically. "What we're seeing so far is very similar to the process that we see with Islamic violent Jihad radicalization," said former FBI Assistant Director Frank Figliuzzi, "This wanting to belong to a cause greater than yourself, wanting to get affirmation from a group who may not even know who you are or ever met you. And then feeling like you're part of this deployment, this cause. You heard him say on the clip 'It's my job to protect this.'
No, it's not your job. But you think it is. And video last night shows him walking around roaming around with the assault rifle not really doing much of protecting anything." Figliuzzi made it clear that calling these characters "troubled" is a misnomer. "I would assert," Figliuzzi continued. "that it's time we stopped using the word ‘troubled’ with regard to white young people who act out like this and start thinking about the radicalized term that we used when people of color or people of Islamic faith act out like this. This is a radicalization process that's happening. It happened with the El Paso shooter in Texas. We kept hearing he was troubled. No, he was radicalized. And it's happening online."

Offline chyros

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 13:26:58 »
This is a very subjective thing, so it's a bit tricky, and almost impossible to say something without pissing some people off. To me, this boils down to a choice between a relatively good RD and a ****ty mech. Which you prefer depends partly on your preference and partly on your level of MK snobbery, I'd say :p .

Personally, I would prefer many other boards over either, and I don't like the styling of either the Apple, or any Razer keyboard. Some keyboards, including a few gaming keyboards, have some nifty side features, so given the choice between two keyboards with switches I'm not too hot on nor like the look of, I'd probably let it boil down to what other features the keyboards have.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 13:36:20 »
The AEK and AEK2 were good keyboards, I prefer the original with the orange or salmon Alps, but AEK2 is more common and cheaper.

You will need to have an ADB-to-USB converter to use them on a modern computer, and they are very prone to nasty yellowing.

Well the yellowing doesn't bother me. If I could get one of those keyboards I'm sure that I would be happy. But I think that going for the Matias Tactile Pro would be a better choice.

Offline Macsmasher

  • Posts: 462
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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 13:53:47 »
I took my old Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 out of mothballs just to try out today. I still felt the Apple keyboard better than it.


What I haven't heard mentioned in this thread is the importance of 'when' the key actuates. The Microsoft 4000 doesn't actuate until the key hits bottom. All membrane keyboards are this way. But a mechanical keyboard (Cherry MX or Topre) actuates 2mm into the 4mm keystroke. That's a significant point that needs to be made because it totally changes the typing experience.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 14:05:54 »
What I haven't heard mentioned in this thread is the importance of 'when' the key actuates. The Microsoft 4000 doesn't actuate until the key hits bottom. All membrane keyboards are this way. But a mechanical keyboard (Cherry MX or Topre) actuates 2mm into the 4mm keystroke. That's a significant point that needs to be made because it totally changes the typing experience.

I'm sure that the Microsoft does not have a tactile feel at all. Did feel like it did at all. The apple keyboard seems to have some sort of tactile feel. But if you are asking to what point does the key actuate, I can't say. All I can say is that I find myself slightly faster with less mistakes when trying to touch-type on the Apple keyboard.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 14:15:55 »
Alps switches activate even higher up than Cherry. That is one of their most endearing characteristics.

The "jailhouse" mod for Cherries raises the actuation point, too.
The difference in characterization of crime and who commits it skews what criminality looks like demographically. "What we're seeing so far is very similar to the process that we see with Islamic violent Jihad radicalization," said former FBI Assistant Director Frank Figliuzzi, "This wanting to belong to a cause greater than yourself, wanting to get affirmation from a group who may not even know who you are or ever met you. And then feeling like you're part of this deployment, this cause. You heard him say on the clip 'It's my job to protect this.'
No, it's not your job. But you think it is. And video last night shows him walking around roaming around with the assault rifle not really doing much of protecting anything." Figliuzzi made it clear that calling these characters "troubled" is a misnomer. "I would assert," Figliuzzi continued. "that it's time we stopped using the word ‘troubled’ with regard to white young people who act out like this and start thinking about the radicalized term that we used when people of color or people of Islamic faith act out like this. This is a radicalization process that's happening. It happened with the El Paso shooter in Texas. We kept hearing he was troubled. No, he was radicalized. And it's happening online."

Offline Macsmasher

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #61 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 14:54:41 »
What I haven't heard mentioned in this thread is the importance of 'when' the key actuates. The Microsoft 4000 doesn't actuate until the key hits bottom. All membrane keyboards are this way. But a mechanical keyboard (Cherry MX or Topre) actuates 2mm into the 4mm keystroke. That's a significant point that needs to be made because it totally changes the typing experience.

I'm sure that the Microsoft does not have a tactile feel at all. Did feel like it did at all. The apple keyboard seems to have some sort of tactile feel. But if you are asking to what point does the key actuate, I can't say. All I can say is that I find myself slightly faster with less mistakes when trying to touch-type on the Apple keyboard.


Don't confuse switch feel with switch actuation point. Cherry MX Reds and Blacks are linear switches (no tactility) and still actuate 2mm into the 4mm keystroke. But no matter. It sounds like you've found a keyboard you like, which is really all that matters. Keyboard preferences are purely subjective. Stay with the Apple if you like it.
« Last Edit: Mon, 28 September 2015, 14:56:18 by Macsmasher »

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 02:04:58 »
I think at some point I will change the Apple keyboard. For the moment, I'm using it because it is the only one I like out of the two. I do feel that the keys do become slightly hard after using it for a while, but then after a rest period its back. I'm guessing that is because of tired fingers I think after trying to touch-type (unsuccessfully) for long periods of time.

Offline TopreFan333

  • Posts: 422
Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #63 on: Wed, 30 September 2015, 10:47:30 »
From what i hear, Apple made a mechanical keyboard in the 80s called the Apple Extended Keyboard. From what I'm reading online, it was one of the best keyboards Apple ever made and is still desirable today; just like IBM's Model M.
I believe that the Matias Tactile Pro is an attempt to recreate that keyboard, so I'm wondering whether I should get one of those or the SpaceSaver one from Unicomp.

You can pick up one of those AEK IIs quite cheaply, and they'll last forever. You will need an ADB to USB adapter, though -- search for Griffin iMate and you'll find them on eBay, etc.

Offline SamirD

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 01 October 2015, 07:31:34 »
From what i hear, Apple made a mechanical keyboard in the 80s called the Apple Extended Keyboard. From what I'm reading online, it was one of the best keyboards Apple ever made and is still desirable today; just like IBM's Model M.
I believe that the Matias Tactile Pro is an attempt to recreate that keyboard, so I'm wondering whether I should get one of those or the SpaceSaver one from Unicomp.
Like some others have said, keyboards are a very subjective and personal choice.  The best advice I would give is to see if you can give one a try--but I'd only do that after you can notice the difference in your typing speed, accuracy, or the condition of your hands.  If not, you'll be like a kid with a driving permit test driving a Lambo or Ferrari.  Get your skills up and then get the tools you need, otherwise you may invest in the wrong tool.
Aesthetics is always a top priority in Apple's design agenda, I just wonder if people want a keyboard to stare at it or to type.
Seriously!  Function>form for me any day!

[rant]
But I think that's a key to their success.  All the women of the world want their crap and buy it endlessly like a fashion item.  Don't get me wrong, some of their items have changed the game (like their keyboard we're discussing in this thread), but the cost of such form+functional products are so overpriced that only those that don't understand value seem be the first adopters.

My wife loves their phones and has gone through 3 upgrades in the last 2 years.  I still have my military spec NEC Terrain and can out type her on texts any day of the week since I have a hardware keyboard.  I can do everything she can except I don't have to worry about dropping, spilling, or the occasional throw across the room.  Function>form as mine is thicker, but put a case on hers to protect it like mine and it's the same.

Apple changed the cellphone game with the touchscreen only option, and everyone followed suit.  Personally, I hate it.  Who initially thought about touching their phones would turn them on?  Kinky perverts!  My Treo 650 had a touchscreen and a keyboard and it was much faster to get anything done because it had buttons to do anything you could via touchscreen--answer a call, send a text, get to the main menu.  The combination was pretty killer.  Even the android platform sucks at this.  It takes 5 steps to dial a number from a text because of all the stupid questions and bad UI decisions along the way.  Placement of where you have to touch things in sequence on a task can be at the opposite ends of the screen (who thought that was a good idea?) and there's no buttons to speed through the crap.

Take redialing a number for instance.  On the Treo 650, you could press the key to answer once and it would bring up your call log, you could select the number either using the 4-way directional pad or touch it--done.  Or even faster if it was the same number, you just pressed it once to bring up the list and one more time to dial the most recent number.  I could redial faster than it takes to select the number on either Apple or Android phones.  Who forgot the UI rules about being only a few steps away from your task?

The Apple IOS stuff is so easy a 3 year old can use it.  That's great, but I'm not 3 years old.  Dummying down the whole computing experience opened it up to a wider audience, but all it did in the long run was reset progress, going from things like mech keyboards and solid input devices that made interaction with the system quick and efficient via a button press, to endless touching of a glass screen wearing out not only the wrist and arm, but even more body parts.  If their way was superior, products like the Matias Tactile One wouldn't exist, but 90% of the people out there don't know anything about rsi because they're first generation into using such products.  Those of us that have been computing and gaming since before computing was 'cool' know all about bad UIs, interfaces and the potential damage to body parts over years of use.  And our wisdom was cast aside for flashy products and fashion branding.  Idiots.

And to think, Microsoft bailed out Apple back in the late 1990s/early 2000s by buying a stake in the company and putting people on their board.  I guess you can't have good without evil and they knew it...
[/rant]
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 October 2015, 07:35:05 by SamirD »

Offline TopreFan333

  • Posts: 422
Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 01 October 2015, 10:53:30 »
My Treo 650 had a touchscreen and a keyboard and it was much faster to get anything done because it had buttons to do anything you could via touchscreen--answer a call, send a text, get to the main menu.  The combination was pretty killer.  Even the android platform sucks at this.  It takes 5 steps to dial a number from a text because of all the stupid questions and bad UI decisions along the way.  Placement of where you have to touch things in sequence on a task can be at the opposite ends of the screen (who thought that was a good idea?) and there's no buttons to speed through the crap.

Another big vote for tactile interfaces. On my old Motorola flip phone. I had three or four frequent numbers mapped to the turbodial, so all I had to do was open the device and hold down a single number key for a couple seconds and it would start dialling that person. You could literally do this without looking at the phone. Now on my smartphone, I have to go through a number of UI elements, all of which require looking at the screen because it's just a rectangle of hot glass in my hand, with almost no hardware switches to interact with in a tactile manner. I actually wonder whether I could actually dial 911 on a smartphone if I was semi-conscious. As versatile as these things are, they really neglect all the decades (centuries?) of cumulative advances in tactile interfaces.

And what's really worse: now we have touchscreen interfaces in CARS, which is just an atrocious idea.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 October 2015, 10:55:48 by dchadwick »

Offline SamirD

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #66 on: Thu, 01 October 2015, 12:35:59 »
And what's really worse: now we have touchscreen interfaces in CARS, which is just an atrocious idea.
You know, I never thought of that until I remember renting an Infiniti Q50 recently and was trying to get things adjusted while driving in Atlanta traffic--I might as well have been looking at my phone every two seconds.  God, what an awful idea of putting touchscreens in cars without tactile feedback.

Even in our own car that has a touchscreen, I never use it--I'm always using the steering wheel controls since I have tactile feedback and can keep my eyes on the road.

I wonder when someone 50 years from now will 'discover' buttons again.  I await the day...


Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #67 on: Thu, 01 October 2015, 13:05:47 »
all I had to do was open the device and hold down a single number key for a couple seconds and it would start dialling that person.

That is the one huge thing that I miss with smart phones.

I held onto my monochrome Nokia until about 5 years ago because all color screens had screen savers that went black after some minutes.
The monochrome screen was always on - a huge benfit.
The difference in characterization of crime and who commits it skews what criminality looks like demographically. "What we're seeing so far is very similar to the process that we see with Islamic violent Jihad radicalization," said former FBI Assistant Director Frank Figliuzzi, "This wanting to belong to a cause greater than yourself, wanting to get affirmation from a group who may not even know who you are or ever met you. And then feeling like you're part of this deployment, this cause. You heard him say on the clip 'It's my job to protect this.'
No, it's not your job. But you think it is. And video last night shows him walking around roaming around with the assault rifle not really doing much of protecting anything." Figliuzzi made it clear that calling these characters "troubled" is a misnomer. "I would assert," Figliuzzi continued. "that it's time we stopped using the word ‘troubled’ with regard to white young people who act out like this and start thinking about the radicalized term that we used when people of color or people of Islamic faith act out like this. This is a radicalization process that's happening. It happened with the El Paso shooter in Texas. We kept hearing he was troubled. No, he was radicalized. And it's happening online."

Offline tufty

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #68 on: Fri, 02 October 2015, 07:45:12 »
Well the yellowing doesn't bother me. If I could get one of those keyboards I'm sure that I would be happy. But I think that going for the Matias Tactile Pro would be a better choice.

I've got both - well, all 4, to be honest.

Chiclet board - I'm personally not keen on it, but it's surprisingly comfortable to type on, and closer in feel to a mechanical board than a "mash the **** out of it" dome keyboard with "classic" keys.  Also, you can use it to wedge a short table leg and stop your desk wobbling.

The Apple White Board.  This is the only time I've ever been in agreement with our resident troll Mr M. Windows.  It's an atrocity to type on.  It does look very nice, though.

Matias Tactile Pro.  Nice to type on, but loud.  Very loud.  Loud enough that I've ripped the case off mine and work with the board on some neoprene to stop some of the "ringing".  And Mrs tufty still complains it drowns out the TV.  Half the lettering has worn off.

Apple M0116 with salmon Alps (pretty much an cut down version of the AEK / AEK II).  Sublime to type on (with Hasu's converter or iMate).  The *only* flaws with these are : QWERTY, only 2kro, external adaptor required.

I've got / had a bunch of other Apple boards over the years, all of which are rubber dome / collapsing rubber tube designs, and all of which are "rubber dome" to type on.

Matias' Quiet Pro should bring the Matias offering closer to / beyond the Apple Alps boards.  I guess we'll be able to see if they stand the test of time as well as the Apple boards have in around 30 years or so.
« Last Edit: Fri, 02 October 2015, 07:47:19 by tufty »

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #69 on: Sat, 03 October 2015, 09:43:28 »
I've decided to go in for an AEK or AEK2. If I can find one.

Offline rowdy

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  • Missed another sale.
Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 06 October 2015, 00:25:16 »
I found myself using my Apple aluminium keyboard last weekend when I reinstalled OS X and needed to press certain keys as the computer was booting.

As different keyboards map Alt/Command differently, and sometimes remapped after the OS started, and in this case there was no OS, I needed an authentic Apple keyboard.

It is not as I remember it.  Perhaps because I have not used it for so long, but it felt quite horrible.  I was happy to get back to my CODE, and then my SSK, and now my HHKB.

Apple keyboard has gone back on the shelf.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 06 October 2015, 03:32:25 »
I suppose that the Apple keyboard is not to everyone's taste. Some people like it and prefer it. It has the same feel as if you're working on a laptop. So I guess the prepares you for working on either machine.

Having said that, I would be getting myself an AEK or AEK2.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 06 October 2015, 04:45:40 »
Oh I used to love my Apple keyboard.  So much I even got a second one to use at work.

But using more conventional mechanical keyboards seems to have spoiled me a bit :))
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #73 on: Sat, 17 October 2015, 11:21:21 »
I still love my Apple A1243.. I would consider it nostalgic to have an AEK.. If I would ever get a mechanical keyboard, that would be it. :)

Offline tararais

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 19:30:00 »
Apart from the mech superiority, apple keyboards are pretty tolerable to type on

This. If I'm not on my Topre or one of my CODEs, I want to be on an Apple keyboard. They absolutely nailed the good-feeling chiclet-style keyboard. No other low-profile board has ever come close.
 
I for one hate them, I much prefer even a regular laptop keyboard over the zero-travel crap Apple makes.

Offline Altis

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #75 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 22:26:21 »
I suppose that the Apple keyboard is not to everyone's taste. Some people like it and prefer it. It has the same feel as if you're working on a laptop. So I guess the prepares you for working on either machine.

Having said that, I would be getting myself an AEK or AEK2.

I think it's more like how laptop keyboards used to be. The new one is more shallow, but the one most people are familiar with was pretty good.

One nice thing about them is that they're very quiet, so it's nice when everyone around you is using them in an office compared with some cheap Dell keyboards.
WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Keytrak (Blue Alps) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- G80-1800 (MX Blue) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad

Offline PrinsPils

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #76 on: Mon, 19 October 2015, 23:04:18 »
Apple keyboards are pretty okay to be honest, i have felt worse keyboards. But! the new ones with the even shorter travel distance are incredible crap and feels more like typing on a touchscreen. Mechanical/topre any day!

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #77 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 01:31:21 »
I think that once someone gets used to the travel & feel of the mechanical keyboards, you tend to want to stick with that.

If you think that typing on the new Apple ones are typing on a touchscreen, then imagine what it would be like typing on this...



Offline SamirD

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #78 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 08:29:08 »
But! the new ones with the even shorter travel distance are incredible crap and feels more like typing on a touchscreen.
That's interesting that you say this as my brother now spends 50% of his work time on a touchscreen.  I guess the idea is to make the transition from one to the other more seamless?


Offline tararais

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #79 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 11:04:39 »
I think that once someone gets used to the travel & feel of the mechanical keyboards, you tend to want to stick with that.

If you think that typing on the new Apple ones are typing on a touchscreen, then imagine what it would be like typing on this...
Show Image


 
At least you feel cool typing on that. Not like an exploited consumer.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #80 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 12:17:37 »

LOL.. anyone else see the Apple keyboard on his desk?  :p :thumb:

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #81 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 12:23:23 »
When I was initially learning to touch type, one of the best keyboards that I ever used was the Apple M2452.


But I didn't last as long as I had hoped it would....

Offline BrewCaps

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #82 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 16:16:03 »
What switches does it use?

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #83 on: Tue, 20 October 2015, 22:37:29 »
I'm not sure... Pretty sure that it was some sort of membrane keyboard. But it was a good one. The best one that I've felt yet. Even better than the newer A1243 that I'm using now. :)

It had the perfect level of travel too. However I will say this. The A1243 that I'm using now is rather reliable. Going on the 3rd year and it has not failed on me once. The M2452 didn't last as long as this... Maybe it was because I got that secondhand.

Offline YoshiCaps

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #84 on: Sat, 22 October 2016, 11:48:16 »
Dakseyboard makes a  mech for mac. I think apples leyboard is like typing on membrane chiclet :confused: Being a windows user tho, i couldn't care less  ;)
hi.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 22 October 2016, 14:37:00 »
Das keyboard is a very good keyboard.

I wonder how this glass keyboard would be like to type on.


Offline YoshiCaps

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #86 on: Sat, 22 October 2016, 14:48:09 »
probaby awful.
hi.

Offline chyros

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #87 on: Sat, 22 October 2016, 16:33:06 »
Awful, beyond a doubt. Probably even worse than it look, too. Fingers will probably hurt within minutes.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline YoshiCaps

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #88 on: Sat, 22 October 2016, 16:34:24 »
i could imagine it would be like typing on really sticky mx clears.
hi.

Offline TopreFan333

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #89 on: Mon, 31 October 2016, 09:32:27 »
I think the Apple keyboard the OP posted is actually pretty decent to type on, as are the other permutations of it (the bluetooth version, the ones on MacBooks, etc). This emphatically does not apply to the newer, "butterfly switch" Mac keyboards, which are absolutely the worst thing I've ever tried to type on short of a tablet.

I bounce back between my HHKB and my MacBook Air, and while they're vastly different experiences, I have to admit I don't think I type any faster or better on the HHKB. I do enjoy it more though.

The one thing I do miss when I'm on the MacBook is any kind of auditory feedback, so I use an app that generates tiny clicks when I type. It's still quieter than the HHKB, but manages to close the circuit between fingers and brain in a way that I find very helpful. http://sustworks.com/site/prod_keyclick_overview.html
« Last Edit: Mon, 31 October 2016, 09:37:33 by dchadwick »

Offline TopreFan333

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #90 on: Mon, 31 October 2016, 09:33:43 »
I wonder how this glass keyboard would be like to type on.

Show Image


It would be like typing on glass -- so, utterly terrible for human fingers. But probably only slightly worse than the newer generation of MacBook keyboards, which have near-zero key travel.

Offline StickyBlueJuice

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #91 on: Mon, 31 October 2016, 09:39:20 »
I wonder how this glass keyboard would be like to type on.

Show Image


It would be like typing on glass -- so, utterly terrible for human fingers. But probably only slightly worse than the newer generation of MacBook keyboards, which have near-zero key travel.
Ugh reminds me of HP laptop keyboards. They have almost zero key travel and it bugs the everliving crap out of me. It makes an otherwise decent laptop feel really cheap.
Luckily I got a mech to put on top of it. :D

Offline romevi

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #92 on: Mon, 31 October 2016, 09:48:44 »
I like the keyboard on my 2010 MBP. I heard they've changed the switches since then; I've yet to try the new ones, but my computer is slowly dying so I may need to buy a new one next year.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #93 on: Mon, 31 October 2016, 12:30:20 »
I like the keyboard on my 2010 MBP. I heard they've changed the switches since then; I've yet to try the new ones, but my computer is slowly dying so I may need to buy a new one next year.
Not sure if you will like the new MBP...

Offline ideus

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #94 on: Mon, 31 October 2016, 12:49:30 »
Just use what accommodates your own preferences, needs and feels better; there is no need to inflame another futile discussion of this against that. If you like the apple then use it, I like my Thinkpad keyboard, but I would not use it beyond those situations when a dedicated mechanical keyboard is not available. But, that is just me, it is not a rule, nor anything close.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #95 on: Mon, 31 October 2016, 13:51:48 »
Just use what accommodates your own preferences, needs and feels better; there is no need to inflame another futile discussion of this against that. If you like the apple then use it, I like my Thinkpad keyboard, but I would not use it beyond those situations when a dedicated mechanical keyboard is not available. But, that is just me, it is not a rule, nor anything close.
Thank you for the advice.

Offline losing_ctrl

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #96 on: Mon, 31 October 2016, 20:46:59 »
Just use what accommodates your own preferences, needs and feels better; there is no need to inflame another futile discussion of this against that. If you like the apple then use it, I like my Thinkpad keyboard, but I would not use it beyond those situations when a dedicated mechanical keyboard is not available. But, that is just me, it is not a rule, nor anything close.

IMO ThinkPad keyboards are the best notebook keyboards made - if there are no mech keyboards to plug in where you are, you can rest assured that you'll have the best experience currently available in a notebook.

The Apple Keyboard pictured in the original post is pretty good for casual use - and it's only $49. I may pick one up before they discontinue it. Way better than the current BT "Magic Keyboard" for $99 or 2016 rMBP keyboard. MacOS is still the best, but Apple notebooks and desktops are sadly no longer in the vanguard of excellent design.

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 01 November 2016, 06:05:34 »
MacOS is still the best, but Apple notebooks and desktops are sadly no longer in the vanguard of excellent design.
One reason why I use a Hackintosh.  :D

Offline Giorgio

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 01 November 2016, 06:55:44 »
I own the same apple keyboard as you.

I feel that a pok3r with mx reds and orings is vastly superior to the apple A1243, which in my opinion is much better than most keyboards that I've tried.

I also use a g80-1800 with uniqey clips, which is more silent than the apple one.

Offline losing_ctrl

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #99 on: Tue, 01 November 2016, 07:44:31 »
MacOS is still the best, but Apple notebooks and desktops are sadly no longer in the vanguard of excellent design.
One reason why I use a Hackintosh.  :D

Yeah that's very tempting to do. I'd like to get a base model ThinkPad P70 (17" screen, quad-core i7 laptop) to try that out. That would be seriously cool!

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #100 on: Tue, 01 November 2016, 07:53:30 »
Yeah that's very tempting to do. I'd like to get a base model ThinkPad P70 (17" screen, quad-core i7 laptop) to try that out. That would be seriously cool!

You can have a look at tonymacx86.com

Offline TopreFan333

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #101 on: Thu, 10 November 2016, 15:36:57 »
Yeah that's very tempting to do. I'd like to get a base model ThinkPad P70 (17" screen, quad-core i7 laptop) to try that out. That would be seriously cool!

You can have a look at tonymacx86.com

How reliable is your Hackintosh? I mean, once it's set up, how much tinkering do you have to do to keep it running and up to date?

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #102 on: Fri, 11 November 2016, 03:15:00 »
How reliable is your Hackintosh? I mean, once it's set up, how much tinkering do you have to do to keep it running and up to date?

Truthfully? Nothing at all. The Updates come automatically and are applied automatically. The only downside is that the operating system is fooled into thinking that my Hackintosh is a Mac mini. However my motherboard does not have a Thunderbolt port. So that is the only update that is constantly left out actually. But other than that, my Hackintosh was updated from Yosemite to macOS Sierra like it was an original Apple computer.

If you picked the right motherboard and parts, you literally have nothing to worry about.

Offline TopreFan333

  • Posts: 422
Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #103 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 15:01:41 »
How reliable is your Hackintosh? I mean, once it's set up, how much tinkering do you have to do to keep it running and up to date?

Truthfully? Nothing at all. The Updates come automatically and are applied automatically. The only downside is that the operating system is fooled into thinking that my Hackintosh is a Mac mini. However my motherboard does not have a Thunderbolt port. So that is the only update that is constantly left out actually. But other than that, my Hackintosh was updated from Yosemite to macOS Sierra like it was an original Apple computer.

If you picked the right motherboard and parts, you literally have nothing to worry about.

This is great to know, thanks. Apple seems to be just letting its desktop line languish these days, and it's nice to know there are options. I just got a 5K iMac, which I love, but I could see going down this road when it's time to upgrade...

Offline knightjp

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Re: Apple Keyboard vs Mechanical
« Reply #104 on: Fri, 18 November 2016, 15:44:55 »
This is great to know, thanks. Apple seems to be just letting its desktop line languish these days, and it's nice to know there are options. I just got a 5K iMac, which I love, but I could see going down this road when it's time to upgrade...
I quite agree. The main reason for going down this route is because I wished for Apple to make another PowerMac like their old towers, but they didn't. Their new one is an amazing machine. In fact their new lineup of machines are really good. But nothing like their old towers. For instance, I do not think that Virginia tech is going to make another super computer using Apple machines like they did below.

Anyways, I think we've gone off topic right now.  :p