will Cherry ever make an ergoclear switch?

[Special K]

Will Cherry ever make an ergoclear switch (i.e. strong tactile bump with a relatively light spring), or if I want something like this are my only options pretty much:

1. Use an alps board
2. Individually mod cherry MX clear switches by removing the springs and swapping them with MX brown springs

[bcredbottle]

Will Cherry ever make an ergoclear switch (i.e. strong tactile bump with a relatively light spring), or if I want something like this are my only options pretty much:

1. Use an alps board
2. Individually mod cherry MX clear switches by removing the springs and swapping them with MX brown springs

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74807.0

[jonathanyu]

Will Cherry ever make an ergoclear switch (i.e. strong tactile bump with a relatively light spring), or if I want something like this are my only options pretty much:

1. Use an alps board
2. Individually mod cherry MX clear switches by removing the springs and swapping them with MX brown springs

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74807.0

op is asking for Cherry made switches, not gateron.

[bcredbottle]

Will Cherry ever make an ergoclear switch (i.e. strong tactile bump with a relatively light spring), or if I want something like this are my only options pretty much:

1. Use an alps board
2. Individually mod cherry MX clear switches by removing the springs and swapping them with MX brown springs

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74807.0

op is asking for Cherry made switches, not gateron.

Is this true OP? Have I failed you?

[Special K]

Will Cherry ever make an ergoclear switch (i.e. strong tactile bump with a relatively light spring), or if I want something like this are my only options pretty much:

1. Use an alps board
2. Individually mod cherry MX clear switches by removing the springs and swapping them with MX brown springs

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74807.0

op is asking for Cherry made switches, not gateron.

Is this true OP? Have I failed you?

No, your information was helpful as well.  Having said that, I assume no large keyboard manufacturer is ever going to make a board with these switches (or ones from Cherry, should they ever make them) in it, correct?  Meaning I would be on my own in acquiring a case and PCB to attach the switches to?  Does anyone sell a full-size Filco OEM case and PCB?

[jerue]

Take the Cherry Corp engineers and some execs to Oktoberfest 2016 and maybe you'll get your Cherry branded ergo-clear.

[bcredbottle]

Will Cherry ever make an ergoclear switch (i.e. strong tactile bump with a relatively light spring), or if I want something like this are my only options pretty much:

1. Use an alps board
2. Individually mod cherry MX clear switches by removing the springs and swapping them with MX brown springs

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74807.0

op is asking for Cherry made switches, not gateron.

Is this true OP? Have I failed you?

No, your information was helpful as well.  Having said that, I assume no large keyboard manufacturer is ever going to make a board with these switches (or ones from Cherry, should they ever make them) in it, correct?  Meaning I would be on my own in acquiring a case and PCB to attach the switches to?  Does anyone sell a full-size Filco OEM case and PCB?

AFAIK Cherry has no plans to make ergo clears. Even if they do roll it out weeks or months from now, it would be a bit before you start seeing a wide selection of boards carrying them. Your best option is to buy Zealios and solder them onto an existing board or a new build.

[Special K]

Will Cherry ever make an ergoclear switch (i.e. strong tactile bump with a relatively light spring), or if I want something like this are my only options pretty much:

1. Use an alps board
2. Individually mod cherry MX clear switches by removing the springs and swapping them with MX brown springs

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74807.0

op is asking for Cherry made switches, not gateron.

Is this true OP? Have I failed you?

No, your information was helpful as well.  Having said that, I assume no large keyboard manufacturer is ever going to make a board with these switches (or ones from Cherry, should they ever make them) in it, correct?  Meaning I would be on my own in acquiring a case and PCB to attach the switches to?  Does anyone sell a full-size Filco OEM case and PCB?

AFAIK Cherry has no plans to make ergo clears. Even if they do roll it out weeks or months from now, it would be a bit before you start seeing a wide selection of boards carrying them. Your best option is to buy Zealios and solder them onto an existing board or a new build.

Where can I buy a full-size case + PCB?

[SpAmRaY]

Will Cherry ever make an ergoclear switch (i.e. strong tactile bump with a relatively light spring), or if I want something like this are my only options pretty much:

1. Use an alps board
2. Individually mod cherry MX clear switches by removing the springs and swapping them with MX brown springs

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74807.0

op is asking for Cherry made switches, not gateron.

Is this true OP? Have I failed you?

No, your information was helpful as well.  Having said that, I assume no large keyboard manufacturer is ever going to make a board with these switches (or ones from Cherry, should they ever make them) in it, correct?  Meaning I would be on my own in acquiring a case and PCB to attach the switches to?  Does anyone sell a full-size Filco OEM case and PCB?

AFAIK Cherry has no plans to make ergo clears. Even if they do roll it out weeks or months from now, it would be a bit before you start seeing a wide selection of boards carrying them. Your best option is to buy Zealios and solder them onto an existing board or a new build.

Where can I buy a full-size case + PCB?

He means buy a keyboard, take it apart and put it back together with the parts you want.

 Depending on your keycap/stabilizer preference, I am a big fan of the Leopold FC900R with thick pbt caps for ~$119.99 from www.mechanicalkeyboards.com

[hwood34]

lol, expecting Cherry to innovate...

[trizkut]

Didn't Cherry once say they would make them, but only if it reached 750k MOQ?  ) )

[azhdar]

lol, expecting Cherry to innovate...

Dude have you not seen QMX clip? So innovative.

Didn't Cherry once say they would make them, but only if it reached 750k MOQ?  ) )

yep : http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Ergo_Clear#Availability

[jonathanyu]

lol, expecting Cherry to innovate...

Dude have you not seen QMX clip? So innovative.

Didn't Cherry once say they would make them, but only if it reached 750k MOQ?  ) )

yep : http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Ergo_Clear#Availability

how much is 750k switches?

[azhdar]

lol, expecting Cherry to innovate...

Dude have you not seen QMX clip? So innovative.

Didn't Cherry once say they would make them, but only if it reached 750k MOQ?  ) )

yep : http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Ergo_Clear#Availability

how much is 750k switches?

750.000 so about 750.000$

[SpAmRaY]

lol, expecting Cherry to innovate...

Dude have you not seen QMX clip? So innovative.

Didn't Cherry once say they would make them, but only if it reached 750k MOQ?  ) )

yep : http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Ergo_Clear#Availability

how much is 750k switches?

I would think something like $200K if buying that many.

[SamirD]

lol, expecting Cherry to innovate...

Dude have you not seen QMX clip? So innovative.

Didn't Cherry once say they would make them, but only if it reached 750k MOQ?  ) )

yep : http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Ergo_Clear#Availability

how much is 750k switches?

I would think something like $200K if buying that many.

If 750k is retail on 750k switches, then wholesale will be easily half of that for 375k.  Factor in a discount for the quantity and it would probably be around 300-310k + freight.

[Saimeidae]

You may be interested in a Clueboard from skullydazed and Zealios then, if you don't want to salvage from a board. Less work and likely cheaper.

[Hyde]

Assuming a company is interested in selling those.  750,000 switches will be 7,211 keyboards (assuming 104 key).

If you sell it on a global scale, it's actually not that much.

I wonder why no one has attempted it yet.  I feel like CM Storm, Ducky, Vortex or even Corsair can probably pull it off........ maybe..... 

[Oobly]

Or you could get Zealios, GoN NerD108 PCB and case and go for a full Korean custom. Expensive, but worth it, IMHO.

As a matter of interest, 2x3x4 LED's can fit INSIDE Zealio cases and they're compatible with 4-lead RGB LED's, too.

I don't see Cherry making anything like these any time soon. IMO, they made a mistake going for the damped slider solution by copying Alps quiet switches. They should have put dampers in the case instead (inside the tube and mounted in the "shoulders" of the top case). That way you make two new molds and ALL your switch types can be damped... Also would allow them to make a tighter top case for the damped switches and the new cases could be clear, too. Then rearrange the switch product line like this:

1. Linear 65g
2. Linear "Silent" 65g
3. Tactile 65g (Clear stem shape)
4. Tactile "Silent" 65g
5. Clicky 65g
6. Clicky "Silent" 65g

The "silent" clicky switches would still have the normal click from the white part of the slider, the blue part would be damped by the case.

Job done. One spring, two case types, three slider types.

[SpAmRaY]

lol, expecting Cherry to innovate...

Dude have you not seen QMX clip? So innovative.

Didn't Cherry once say they would make them, but only if it reached 750k MOQ?  ) )

yep : http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Ergo_Clear#Availability

how much is 750k switches?

I would think something like $200K if buying that many.

If 750k is retail on 750k switches, then wholesale will be easily half of that for 375k.  Factor in a discount for the quantity and it would probably be around 300-310k + freight.

Retail is around $0.50/switch for existing switches, at least from www.mechanicalkeyboards.com

[SamirD]

lol, expecting Cherry to innovate...

Dude have you not seen QMX clip? So innovative.

Didn't Cherry once say they would make them, but only if it reached 750k MOQ?  ) )

yep : http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Ergo_Clear#Availability

how much is 750k switches?

I would think something like $200K if buying that many.

If 750k is retail on 750k switches, then wholesale will be easily half of that for 375k.  Factor in a discount for the quantity and it would probably be around 300-310k + freight.

Retail is around $0.50/switch for existing switches, at least from www.mechanicalkeyboards.com

Even better.  So full retail for 750k switches would be at 375k and half of that would be only 187.5k.  So then we're closer to about $170k + freight.

And depending on how much of a break they give for such large production runs, it could get into the sub $150k range, plug freight.

[bcredbottle]

This whole thread is derailing into ridiculous territory but I'm intrigued by the remote possibility of someone actually arranging the financing for a 750k switch GB.

[SamirD]

This whole thread is derailing into ridiculous territory but I'm intrigued by the remote possibility of someone actually arranging the financing for a 750k switch GB.

What are the gross/net revenues for some of these keyboard companies?  That would give us an idea of where the financial feasibility may lie.

[bcredbottle]

This whole thread is derailing into ridiculous territory but I'm intrigued by the remote possibility of someone actually arranging the financing for a 750k switch GB.

What are the gross/net revenues for some of these keyboard companies?  That would give us an idea of where the financial feasibility may lie.

Not sure but IIRC even the Zealios GB didn't hit MOQ. Not sure it would be worth it for anyone to invest six figures in such a niche area. It would be one thing if we were talking about boards w/ Ergo Clears b/c the market is much bigger for that.

[SamirD]

This whole thread is derailing into ridiculous territory but I'm intrigued by the remote possibility of someone actually arranging the financing for a 750k switch GB.

What are the gross/net revenues for some of these keyboard companies?  That would give us an idea of where the financial feasibility may lie.

Not sure but IIRC even the Zealios GB didn't hit MOQ. Not sure it would be worth it for anyone to invest six figures in such a niche area. It would be one thing if we were talking about boards w/ Ergo Clears b/c the market is much bigger for that.

That's probably why the MOQ is so high.  There just isn't enough demand.  Which makes sense since we're talking about a small niche inside another very small niche.

[Special K]

Or you could get Zealios, GoN NerD108 PCB and case and go for a full Korean custom. Expensive, but worth it, IMHO.

As a matter of interest, 2x3x4 LED's can fit INSIDE Zealio cases and they're compatible with 4-lead RGB LED's, too.

I don't see Cherry making anything like these any time soon. IMO, they made a mistake going for the damped slider solution by copying Alps quiet switches. They should have put dampers in the case instead (inside the tube and mounted in the "shoulders" of the top case). That way you make two new molds and ALL your switch types can be damped... Also would allow them to make a tighter top case for the damped switches and the new cases could be clear, too. Then rearrange the switch product line like this:

1. Linear 65g
2. Linear "Silent" 65g
3. Tactile 65g (Clear stem shape)
4. Tactile "Silent" 65g
5. Clicky 65g
6. Clicky "Silent" 65g

The "silent" clicky switches would still have the normal click from the white part of the slider, the blue part would be damped by the case.

Job done. One spring, two case types, three slider types.

Are you talking about these:

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/custom-kbds-w-assembly/77-gon-ns-nerd-108-w-tuningassembly.html

It looks like Zealios switches aren't an option, and neither is "no switches".  Are you saying I would have to buy the keyboard with some type of Cherry MX switch, then de-solder all of them and solder in the Zealios?

[SpAmRaY]

Or you could get Zealios, GoN NerD108 PCB and case and go for a full Korean custom. Expensive, but worth it, IMHO.

As a matter of interest, 2x3x4 LED's can fit INSIDE Zealio cases and they're compatible with 4-lead RGB LED's, too.

I don't see Cherry making anything like these any time soon. IMO, they made a mistake going for the damped slider solution by copying Alps quiet switches. They should have put dampers in the case instead (inside the tube and mounted in the "shoulders" of the top case). That way you make two new molds and ALL your switch types can be damped... Also would allow them to make a tighter top case for the damped switches and the new cases could be clear, too. Then rearrange the switch product line like this:

1. Linear 65g
2. Linear "Silent" 65g
3. Tactile 65g (Clear stem shape)
4. Tactile "Silent" 65g
5. Clicky 65g
6. Clicky "Silent" 65g

The "silent" clicky switches would still have the normal click from the white part of the slider, the blue part would be damped by the case.

Job done. One spring, two case types, three slider types.

Are you talking about these:

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/custom-kbds-w-assembly/77-gon-ns-nerd-108-w-tuningassembly.html

It looks like Zealios switches aren't an option, and neither is "no switches".  Are you saying I would have to buy the keyboard with some type of Cherry MX switch, then de-solder all of them and solder in the Zealios?

Currently zelios can only be purchased from Zealpc.net

The GON board is one of the only full size customs out there if that is what you are looking for. You could probably contact GON and ask to get only the PCB and plate but he is months behind on building boards so you probably want to avoid having him build it.

Again my solution for what you want is buy a well built full size board and swap out the switches. Whether you swap stems and springs or buy zelios is really personal choice between how much work you want to do on switches versus spending a little more money.

[CaplockJack]

If they do it will be a Corsair exclusive.

[SamirD]

If they do it will be a Corsair exclusive.

Corsair seems like they'd have large enough pockets to try something like this.

[SpAmRaY]

If they do it will be a Corsair exclusive.

Corsair seems like they'd have large enough pockets to try something like this.

And it would almost be guaranteed they'd screw it up somehow.  )

[SamirD]

If they do it will be a Corsair exclusive.

Corsair seems like they'd have large enough pockets to try something like this.

And it would almost be guaranteed they'd screw it up somehow.  )

hahaha, then their 'exclusive' switches would be dumped on the market for 1/10th the cost to other suppliers who would gobble them up and make cheap boards with them.

[Oobly]

Or you could get Zealios, GoN NerD108 PCB and case and go for a full Korean custom. Expensive, but worth it, IMHO.
...

Are you talking about these:

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/custom-kbds-w-assembly/77-gon-ns-nerd-108-w-tuningassembly.html

It looks like Zealios switches aren't an option, and neither is "no switches".  Are you saying I would have to buy the keyboard with some type of Cherry MX switch, then de-solder all of them and solder in the Zealios?

Nope, this: http://zealpc.net/collections/switches/products/zealio
This: http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/pcbs-and-controllers/78-nerd-108-pcb-ver15.html
And this: http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/housings-and-related-parts/79-gon-ns-nerd-108-housing-only.html

Unfortunately the introductory price on the Zealios is over, but they're still worth getting. A full size board is expensive, though, since it uses the most switches, largest PCB, largest case with most cutouts, etc.

[swimmingbird]

I don't know why you would want Cherry to make them anyway with their crappy QC and factory lubing.

Cherry are innovating but not in a way that actually makes a difference to real keyboard enthusiasts - they would rather sell rgb lit switches to Corsair in bulk than bother making a product that sells to a incredibly small niche

[ideus]

This whole thread is derailing into ridiculous territory but I'm intrigued by the remote possibility of someone actually arranging the financing for a 750k switch GB.

What are the gross/net revenues for some of these keyboard companies?  That would give us an idea of where the financial feasibility may lie.

Not sure but IIRC even the Zealios GB didn't hit MOQ. Not sure it would be worth it for anyone to invest six figures in such a niche area. It would be one thing if we were talking about boards w/ Ergo Clears b/c the market is much bigger for that.

Mechanical keyboard stuff is already at premium prices within small niche markets, there is no much reasons to invest in it; GMK, for example is profiting on very old molds that once were own by Cherry itself.

[SamirD]

they would rather sell rgb lit switches to Corsair in bulk than bother making a product that sells to a incredibly small niche

Because that makes business sense!  High quality and high margins are mutually exclusive unless you want to charge a lot for each item (which doesn't usually fly).

[swimmingbird]

they would rather sell rgb lit switches to Corsair in bulk than bother making a product that sells to a incredibly small niche

Because that makes business sense!  High quality and high margins are mutually exclusive unless you want to charge a lot for each item (which doesn't usually fly).

Yep it does make business sense as Corsair are actually a customer that can provide Cherry with the kind of volumes that make innovation cost effective


Still when a smaller company like GMK can innovate more than you with something like the QMX clips they really need to step up their game

[SamirD]

they would rather sell rgb lit switches to Corsair in bulk than bother making a product that sells to a incredibly small niche

Because that makes business sense!  High quality and high margins are mutually exclusive unless you want to charge a lot for each item (which doesn't usually fly).

Yep it does make business sense as Corsair are actually a customer that can provide Cherry with the kind of volumes that make innovation cost effective


Still when a smaller company like GMK can innovate more than you with something like the QMX clips they really need to step up their game

But only if Corsair can sell them will they place the order.  It's a supply and demand thing.  Sometimes smaller companies are better for the niches so it explains why GMK is able to do it.

Remember, Cherry sells more keyboards via CDW than they ever will through a retail or gaming channel.  It's just not a big enough niche.

[Kola93]

I think it is more important to realize that Cherry no longer holds the patent for MX switches and the market now has many suitable alternatives that will take over Cherry's offerings in a few years if they don't ramp up production.

[SamirD]

I think it is more important to realize that Cherry no longer holds the patent for MX switches and the market now has many suitable alternatives that will take over Cherry's offerings in a few years if they don't ramp up production.

Ah, I forgot about that point.  They'll need to invent the next switch that puts them back on top.  Or they'll need to figure out how to produce what they do for cheaper.  Hmmm...sounds like they're doing the latter from what I've read on here.

[Kola93]

My manufacturing contacts tell me Kailh is positioned to take over Cherry's market share, so there is no more hope for Cherry.

[ideus]

My manufacturing contacts tell me Kailh is positioned to take over Cherry's market share, so there is no more hope for Cherry.

Naive question: Are you serious?

[Kola93]

My manufacturing contacts tell me Kailh is positioned to take over Cherry's market share, so there is no more hope for Cherry.

Naive question: Are you serious?

Yes. My brother and I have looked into manufacturing keyboards.

[swimmingbird]

My manufacturing contacts tell me Kailh is positioned to take over Cherry's market share, so there is no more hope for Cherry.

Naive question: Are you serious?

Don't pay attention to those just trying to get above the 100 post threshold  )

[ideus]

My manufacturing contacts tell me Kailh is positioned to take over Cherry's market share, so there is no more hope for Cherry.

Naive question: Are you serious?

Don't pay attention to those just trying to get above the 100 post threshold  )

When I was young, I loved those small cakes that he is using as avatar, that was the only reason I replied him. 

[CaplockJack]

Twinkies.

[ideus]

Twinkies.

Right, my early years were full of them, vanilla was my overall favorite, but I also can take chocolate, or strawberry. Those summer afternoons with clear sky and warm weather were not be the same without a bag of them.

[Special K]

My manufacturing contacts tell me Kailh is positioned to take over Cherry's market share, so there is no more hope for Cherry.

I remember reading elsewhere on here that a very small percentage of Cherry's revenue comes from keyboard switches, so maybe they really don't care one way or the other.

[swimmingbird]

My manufacturing contacts tell me Kailh is positioned to take over Cherry's market share, so there is no more hope for Cherry.

I remember reading elsewhere on here that a very small percentage of Cherry's revenue comes from keyboard switches, so maybe they really don't care one way or the other.

Yeah I imagine that a lot of Cherry's revenue comes from the industrial side of things but I would still think that key switches would be a significant chunk otherwise they probably would have spun off that division already

[Oobly]

Cherry will keep on chugging along regardless. Some companies will still make boards with "genuine Cherry MX" switches and people will buy them. Also, they make a lot more money from the rest of their product range than selling MX switches to manufacturers. IMO, Gateron and Kailh will take a good chunk of that market from them, but from what I can tell, they won't really care. It's too much work and investment for them to chase that market, when they'd have to make new molds for the sliders and cases just to make their stock switches as good as the current competition (or at the very least, repolish the slider molds). And it's still a niche market, although it's growing.

Zealios are the ErgoClears Cherry will not make. They're available right now, are better than genuine Cherry in every signifant area and there's a chance the prices will eventually drop when enough have been manufactured and sold (and if companies start making agreements with Zeal to use them).

[KaminKevCrew]

According to the deskthority wiki,
"On request, Cherry has stated that they will actually produce Ergo Clears in a slider-colour of choice, with a minimum order of at least 750,000 switches."

(this is from their page on cherry ergo clear switches.)