Author Topic: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards  (Read 466479 times)

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Offline Azurewrath

  • Posts: 35
  • Location: Munich, Germany
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2400 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 14:31:42 »
Is there anything that you would need as far as layout/function that the F77 can't do? It can basically be configured exactly the same way as an M, with Windows keys to boot.
Well, there is no nav cluster and no arrow keys. I just want a normal standardized full size ISO 105 layout. :)
(Yes, i know there's layers and such.. but that's a really poor substitute imho.)

Offline ljosa

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  • Location: Massachusetts
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2401 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 14:47:40 »
Azurewrath, check out the FEXT project: https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=10744

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 990
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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2402 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 14:54:40 »
Is there anything that you would need as far as layout/function that the F77 can't do? It can basically be configured exactly the same way as an M, with Windows keys to boot.
Well, there is no nav cluster and no arrow keys. I just want a normal standardized full size ISO 105 layout. :)
(Yes, i know there's layers and such.. but that's a really poor substitute imho.)

There's whatever you want. You can have a standard ISO alphanumeric cluster and whatever you want in the traditional nav cluster area to the right of that. Only the F62 would require resorting to layers for arrow keys. The F77 would only need layers if you wanted a number pad and nav cluster. If I needed to use layers for arrow keys, I wouldn't want one either.

Offline Azurewrath

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2403 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 15:15:36 »
There's whatever you want. You can have a standard ISO alphanumeric cluster and whatever you want in the traditional nav cluster area to the right of that. Only the F62 would require resorting to layers for arrow keys. The F77 would only need layers if you wanted a number pad and nav cluster. If I needed to use layers for arrow keys, I wouldn't want one either.
I'm talking about a full normal standardized layout. That means nav cluster and a numpad.

Offline rgleas

  • Posts: 3
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2404 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 19:08:45 »
Is there anything that you would need as far as layout/function that the F77 can't do? It can basically be configured exactly the same way as an M, with Windows keys to boot.
Well, there is no nav cluster and no arrow keys. I just want a normal standardized full size ISO 105 layout. :)
(Yes, i know there's layers and such.. but that's a really poor substitute imho.)

The F77 does indeed have arrow keys..

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2405 on: Thu, 30 April 2020, 22:28:48 »
Hi Azurewrath - as a note the F77 now offers 6 right side block layouts, including one with separate cursor keys and individual number keys, as well as layouts with number pads and separate +, Enter, and other keys. 

In my experience talking with those who have joined the new Model F project, many are coming from larger layouts to the more compact 60% and 75% layouts for this project. 

There are some renderings of the various layouts and right side block options on both of the F77 product pages:
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f77-model-f-keyboard/
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f77-model-f-keyboard-ultra-compact/

Offline Azurewrath

  • Posts: 35
  • Location: Munich, Germany
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2406 on: Fri, 01 May 2020, 00:37:20 »
I appreciate all of your answers, don't get me wrong, but i'm really only talking about a standard full layout, nothing else.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 990
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2407 on: Fri, 01 May 2020, 09:48:04 »
I appreciate all of your answers, don't get me wrong, but i'm really only talking about a standard full layout, nothing else.

Then what you need is one of these monstrosities:

F107


Or, one of these monstrosities:

F122


The photos are Ellipse's, I hope he doesn't mind.

Offline hashbaz

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2408 on: Fri, 01 May 2020, 12:25:33 »
Hey Ellipse, what's the latest on the new printed keycaps? Apologies if I missed an update somewhere.

Offline depletedvespene

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2409 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 15:59:36 »
Sorry if this has been asked before, but did you ever think of making and selling a "Model MF"? What i mean by this is: Model F high quality internals/switches and maybe a full metal case and the modern layout of the full size (ISO 105) Model M? That combined with a USB-C Port and it would be perfect.

I think that the purpose of this project was to reproduce the F62 and F77 specifically, as the originals are exceedingly rare. I wish he had made a new production F107, but those are apparently common enough to not be on the radar.

Is there anything that you would need as far as layout/function that the F77 can't do? It can basically be configured exactly the same way as an M, with Windows keys to boot. The only difference is you choose how you want that separate cluster of keys on the right to be configured. Mine has TKL-style arrow keys, media controls, and delete, print screen, and escape. You could configure it like a standard TKL, or a number pad.

Ultimately, the lack of an F row is a serious hindrance for people who use heavily the F row (including in this the mess that is mixing the `~ and Esc keys); for them, 60% and 65% form factors are unusable (*) and 75% is the minimum (**). Getting these repros to cover the TKL and/or the 75% form factors would be an instant "shut up and take my money!" moment.


(*) No, "Just use Fn+5 to make F5!" ain't enough. A two-key chord isn't much of a problem, but Ctrl-F5 (Fn-Ctrl-5) becomes uncomfortable, and stuff like Ctrl-Alt-F9 outright unpleasant.

(**) Heck, this can already be seen in people who prefer the 77-key layout over the 62-key one because of the lack of independent arrow keys.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 990
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2410 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 16:40:55 »
Sorry if this has been asked before, but did you ever think of making and selling a "Model MF"? What i mean by this is: Model F high quality internals/switches and maybe a full metal case and the modern layout of the full size (ISO 105) Model M? That combined with a USB-C Port and it would be perfect.

I think that the purpose of this project was to reproduce the F62 and F77 specifically, as the originals are exceedingly rare. I wish he had made a new production F107, but those are apparently common enough to not be on the radar.

Is there anything that you would need as far as layout/function that the F77 can't do? It can basically be configured exactly the same way as an M, with Windows keys to boot. The only difference is you choose how you want that separate cluster of keys on the right to be configured. Mine has TKL-style arrow keys, media controls, and delete, print screen, and escape. You could configure it like a standard TKL, or a number pad.

Ultimately, the lack of an F row is a serious hindrance for people who use heavily the F row (including in this the mess that is mixing the `~ and Esc keys); for them, 60% and 65% form factors are unusable (*) and 75% is the minimum (**). Getting these repros to cover the TKL and/or the 75% form factors would be an instant "shut up and take my money!" moment.


(*) No, "Just use Fn+5 to make F5!" ain't enough. A two-key chord isn't much of a problem, but Ctrl-F5 (Fn-Ctrl-5) becomes uncomfortable, and stuff like Ctrl-Alt-F9 outright unpleasant.

(**) Heck, this can already be seen in people who prefer the 77-key layout over the 62-key one because of the lack of independent arrow keys.

I have no need for the f keys myself (other than preboot menus?), and have an escape key on my F77. To each their own. A reproduction F107 is something I know I wanted.

Offline depletedvespene

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2411 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 16:45:02 »

I have no need for the f keys myself (other than preboot menus?), and have an escape key on my F77. To each their own. A reproduction F107 is something I know I wanted.

To each his own, of course. As per me, I'd really like to see the F62/F77 repros to be extended to the TKL format (and forget the disappointment of the FSSK) and to the 75% or even 79% form factors (something that never existed in IBM's offerings).

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2412 on: Sat, 02 May 2020, 19:06:55 »

I have no need for the f keys myself (other than preboot menus?), and have an escape key on my F77. To each their own. A reproduction F107 is something I know I wanted.

To each his own, of course. As per me, I'd really like to see the F62/F77 repros to be extended to the TKL format (and forget the disappointment of the FSSK) and to the 75% or even 79% form factors (something that never existed in IBM's offerings).

Maybe that's a possibility over the horizon. I imagine not having to worry so much about strict adherence to/recreation of the original design would significantly speed up development and production, and he's already done the hard part in resurrecting a dead switch type. Even with the current offerings, I would love an option to just get the assembled board with no QC done, or even just the parts to assemble it, at a discount. You would think that would significantly speed up pumping these things out to people who know enough about capacitive buckling spring for it to be a non-issue for them.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2413 on: Mon, 11 May 2020, 12:30:39 »
I have just posted another update on the project blog:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog/

Summary: Model F orders continue shipping out, Passed ONE MILLION DOLLARS in orders, New Early Shipping Option without Keys, Reviews coming in, Sublimation Update, Second Container Ship, COVID-19 Slowdown, xwhatsit firmware update and new QMK firmware ported to xwhatsit Model F

**If you can help me by requesting early delivery of your order it would be much appreciated! Kindly see the web site blog for details before sending over your request.

I wanted to highlight the update about the dye sublimation as a number of people have been asking about it:

Sublimation update – mass sublimation expected to start in June.  Given the huge number of orders so far and the amount of time I’ve recently realized it takes to QC each keyboard order, plus the longer than expected time it would take me to do each key set’s dye sublimation personally as planned, I am working with some keycap dye submination firms to take my keys and transfer sheets and take care of the work 100% to the sublimation standards I’ve already achieved, thus saving me time and allowing the orders to go out much faster than planned. This will ensure that the dye sublimation quality is up to my standards, as well as save the months of continuous dye sublimation I’d be doing – leaving me time to focus on the final QC and on getting orders out more quickly. This will help everyone’s orders to go out earlier than if I were to take care of them as originally planned, while using 100% the same materials that have produced the approved XT quality sublimation results so far (see recent blog posts for photos).

***For this reason I am sending out keyboards upon request without keys, in order to keep things moving. I encourage everyone to take advantage of this option to help me fill up the downtime by getting out orders before the keycaps finish mass sublimation. Those of you with other buckling spring (Model M or Model F) keyboards can use those keys for the time being, or order keys from Unicomp or eBay to use for the time being. Please message me first if interested and I will let you know how many units of the store item $1 increments you’ll need to order for separate shipping of printed keys (everyone can still wait for their full order to be delivered in one package too).

Once the sublimated keys come in I will be ramping up order fulfillment in order to get as many keyboards out each week as possible.  I am hoping to have everything out by year end.  Thanks again to everyone for their patience as we bring back these great keyboards.

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2414 on: Mon, 11 May 2020, 20:55:17 »
Thanks for the update.

I think that's asking a lot for people to buy keys or harvest from their boards, but I guess I understand the basic concept behind it.  Also, you really should have outsourced the dye sublimation a year ago.

Monday morning quarterbacking, I know.  But the good news is that things are still moving forward.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2415 on: Fri, 15 May 2020, 21:16:35 »
A few people were asking about solenoids - a Deskthority user has added a solenoid to his Brand New Model F Classic Case Keyboard.

The challenge is to find a good solenoid and a solenoid driver board.  GH/DT user Orihalcon was selling these but not sure if there are any left.

https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=23707&p=462600&hilit=f62#p462600

I saw this one as a suggestion a while back - not sure if it is a good option:   https://www.ebay.com/itm/0837L-06K-6V-0-15A-5mm-20g-First-Stroke-Push-Solenoid-Electromagnet-with-Base/271967978003

Offline Vizir

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  • Location: Tulsa, OK
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2416 on: Fri, 15 May 2020, 22:25:29 »
A few people were asking about solenoids - a Deskthority user has added a solenoid to his Brand New Model F Classic Case Keyboard.

The challenge is to find a good solenoid and a solenoid driver board.  GH/DT user Orihalcon was selling these but not sure if there are any left.

https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=23707&p=462600&hilit=f62#p462600

I saw this one as a suggestion a while back - not sure if it is a good option:   https://www.ebay.com/itm/0837L-06K-6V-0-15A-5mm-20g-First-Stroke-Push-Solenoid-Electromagnet-with-Base/271967978003
Thanks for that info. Will look into it.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Offline BlissOnTap

  • Posts: 8
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2417 on: Wed, 20 May 2020, 16:52:01 »
Is info@modelfkeyboards.com the best way to get in contact? I sent an email to that address 9 days ago and haven't heard back. Or is going through Geekhack or Deskthority forum's PM the preferred way?

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2418 on: Wed, 20 May 2020, 17:09:31 »
Yep that works!  Sorry Bliss, still going through a couple hundred new emails since the update! 

Offline BlissOnTap

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2419 on: Wed, 20 May 2020, 19:50:40 »
I thought that might be the case, too. Thank you for all your hard work.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2420 on: Fri, 22 May 2020, 21:55:39 »
Apologies for the delay - I have processed all the early shipping requests through yesterday.  Looking at 133 keyboards requested so far.

This early shipping option should be available on an ongoing basis until I can start sending out the sublimated keys.

Also as an update the QMK firmware porting process continues to progress nicely.  I have seen the QMK online configuration tool and it is easy to use - the advantage is that you can update the keys while graphically visualizing the physical locations of the keys, unlike xwhatsit where you have to press a key to see where on the matrix it is, in order to adjust its value.  Also planned is a GUI configuration tool for offline use on Windows, Mac, and Linux.  Big thanks to the QMK team, pandrew, tentator, and everyone else involved in the project!
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 May 2020, 21:58:34 by Ellipse »