Plans to make my own keyboard.

[Blasphemous]

Hello,

I'll get straight to the point: I have very, very specific needs when it comes to keyboards - from the switch type, through shape, position and depression depth, to overall size, illumination etc.
I have not found any keyboards that suit my needs completely and the non-standard ones offered by various companies do not offer the degree of customization that I need.
So, assuming that I have a financial capacity for that, how can I build one myself?
I'm strictly speaking an electronics engineer and I have my trusty old soldering equipment and necessary skills to use them. I'm also quite good with manual works - cutting, sawing, filing etc, though without immediate access to laser cutters and 3d printers.

What would be the best course of action to create my own keyboard from scratch? Here's a few more details to make the question more precise:

- I want a full keyboard (100%) with numpad and standard keys. The problem here is that I want to make a very specific geometric shape and position of many of the keys that I do not find in any of the existing solutions
- I don't really need a mechanical keyboard, mostly because it's too bulky for me and I got used to the flat types long ago
- Keyboards with sensitive and silent switches are preferable
- I despise chiclet/island style keyboards with passionate hate
- I want the switches to have *much* shorter travel distance (or depression, whatever is the proper nomenclature, you know what I'm talking about), preferably as small as scissor types on laptops (or even smaller)
- The keyboard itself needs to be extremely flat (as in: without the slope towards the function keys as some older types had and the overall height above the desk of no more than 1 cm)
- There are some keyboards with additional plastic protrusions around the rim, which smoothly level the entire surface - I like this solution and the few keyboards that had it, felt very comfortable under my fingers. The only problem with them was an absolutely abhorrent layout and key depression. Sort of like wrist supports, only around the entire edge. Here's a sample picture of what I have in mind: http://images.all-free-download.com/images/graphicthumb/compact_computer_keyboard_clip_art_10024.jpg
- Related to the above, what I don't want is this: http://america.pink/images/1/0/6/0/4/8/6/en/1-computer-keyboard.jpg - the distance between keys and the edge of the case is very small and that is exceedingly uncomfortable for me
- I generally tend to use some additional non-standard keys that are present in the so called multimedia keyboards - notably volume -/+ and play/pause. If possible, I'd like this feature present.

I suspect I could use a controller from an existing device and just change everything else but I'm not exactly sure if it's compatible with most solutions.
Is it even feasible to construct a keyboard of individual, non-mechanical, scissor-type switches and connect them to a standard controller like the one used with a dome-switch keyboard?
What about getting such switches one by one or a custom membrane of my own design?
Is it even cost-effective or am I better off soldering my own matrix and just connecting individual keys?

So what do you think is the best route for me?

[MOZ]

1cm max height constraint is very hard to work with.

[iLLucionist]

I'll get straight to the point: I have very, very specific needs when it comes to keyboards - from the switch type, through shape, position and depression depth, to overall size, illumination etc.
I have not found any keyboards that suit my needs completely and the non-standard ones offered by various companies do not offer the degree of customization that I need.

Cool! Please keep us updated. I've been wanting to go the custom route for a loooooong time. I can program, but I have never soldered nor cut metal or whatever. I did print a PCB once but that was not for anything useful.

So, assuming that I have a financial capacity for that, how can I build one myself?
I'm strictly speaking an electronics engineer and I have my trusty old soldering equipment and necessary skills to use them. I'm also quite good with manual works - cutting, sawing, filing etc, though without immediate access to laser cutters and 3d printers.

Can you print a PCB yourself? Controllers can be bought, switches, plates, pcb's. I believe for everything you need there is a post here on GH. Though I guess very small travel is dependent on the switch and I don't think you can "shorten" travel. But I do know some people do stuff to their stems and switch houses, so maybe it would be possible.

- I want a full keyboard (100%) with numpad and standard keys. The problem here is that I want to make a very specific geometric shape and position of many of the keys that I do not find in any of the existing solutions

No problem.

- I don't really need a mechanical keyboard, mostly because it's too bulky for me and I got used to the flat types long ago
- Keyboards with sensitive and silent switches are preferable
- I despise chiclet/island style keyboards with passionate hate
- I want the switches to have *much* shorter travel distance (or depression, whatever is the proper nomenclature, you know what I'm talking about), preferably as small as scissor types on laptops (or even smaller)
- The keyboard itself needs to be extremely flat (as in: without the slope towards the function keys as some older types had and the overall height above the desk of no more than 1 cm)

You don't need mech but you don't want chiclet? That's difficult... if you go the custom route you WILL be buying mech switches. Now I come to think of it there is this relatively low profile DSA caps (if I remember correctly). They are almost half the heigh of OEM Cherry caps. And considering the switches... some people argue that Mattias switches are the quietest. Personally, I prefer Topre or MX Clears for a quiet switch.

[Findecanor]

Mechanical switches is the only feasible option for a home-built keyboard because they are the only ones that are made as individual components.
Mass-produced scissor-switches and most other rubber-dome switches are manufactured in sheets of one form of another. (stamped metal, moulded plastic etc.)

Beside Cherry MX, Cherry makes also a lower-profile mechanical switch called Cherry ML. Switches and keycaps are easiest to snatch from a Cherry G84-series keyboard -- but... those keycaps are smaller than standard.
There are people who have successfully 3D-printed keycaps for it.

Kailh makes also a lower-profile variation of their Cherry MX clone, which is keycap-compatible with Cherry MX but it is not as low, I don't think they sell to hobbyists and I think you could only rip it out of new full-price keyboards.

If you can live with the keyboard being high, then you could use Cherry MX and combine them with O-rings, or something similar to lower the travel distance.

The problem here is that I want to make a very specific geometric shape and position of many of the keys that I do not find in any of the existing solutions

If we are still talking Cherry MX, one simple option is to get hold of some relegendable keys from Tipro. These have a bottom and clear top. With the top off, the bottom is flat and very low.
Make your own tops in the shapes you want and glue them on.

I had that plan for a custom keyboard a while ago. Then I found that I had to be careful not to make the keycap too high - because the higher it gets the more unstable, wobbly, it will be.

I suspect I could use a controller from an existing device and just change everything else but I'm not exactly sure if it's compatible with most solutions.

I would suggest a Teensy 2.0 or a cheaper Arduino Pro Micro, and the TMK firmware.
With these, you will get full control over which keys you have and how your circuit is made.
There is a big community here of people who have built keyboards with those.

[Findecanor]

Now I come to think of it there is this relatively low profile DSA caps (if I remember correctly). They are almost half the heigh of OEM Cherry caps.

Not true. DSA is only as low the lowest keys of the so-called "OEM profile" that is the norm among mechanical keyboards with Cherry MX switches.
Cherry's own classic profile and Signature Plastics' DCS profile are lower than DSA on the home row (the one with ASDF...) but higher on other rows. There is a comparative diagram on the page I linked.
DCS is very close to Cherry's classic profile  but slightly more contoured -- the bottom two rows being more angled.

The lowest, flattest profile (besides the Tipro, I mentioned) can be found on Cherry's own Cherry "MX-Board 2.0" (G80-3800) and "MX-Board 3.0" (G80-3850).
All keys are as high as the lowest keys on Cherry's classic profile -- as low as is possible with Cherry MX.
It looks like an even flatter low-profile keyboard because Cherry pulled a few tricks: they made the border around the keys higher and they bevelled the bottom edge of the casing.

[iLLucionist]

Now I come to think of it there is this relatively low profile DSA caps (if I remember correctly). They are almost half the heigh of OEM Cherry caps.

Not true. DSA is only as low the lowest keys of the so-called "OEM profile" that is the norm among mechanical keyboards with Cherry MX switches.
Cherry's own classic profile and Signature Plastics' DCS profile are lower than DCS on the home row (the one with ASDF...). There is a comparative diagram on the page I linked.

The lowest, flattest profile (besides the Tipro, I mentioned) can be found on Cherry's own Cherry "MX-Board 2.0" (G80-3800) and "MX-Board 3.0" (G80-3850).
All keys are as high as the lowest keys on Cherry's classic profile -- as low as is possible with Cherry MX.
It looks like a flat low-profile keyboard because Cherry pulled a few tricks: they made the border around the keys higher and they bevelled the bottom edge of the casing.

Thanks for the info! Sorry for the confusion, I really thought DSA was lowest.

[iLLucionist]

Beside Cherry MX, Cherry makes also a lower-profile mechanical switch called Cherry ML. Switches and keycaps are easiest to snatch from a Cherry G84-series keyboard -- but... those keycaps are smaller than standard.
There are people who have successfully 3D-printed keycaps for it.

From the looks of it... Cherry ML could fit into a laptop. Think about the possibilities of a true mech keyboard in a laptop.

[Findecanor]

Thanks for the info! Sorry for the confusion, I really thought DSA was lowest.

No worries. That misconception is quite common. But really, we are talking about differences in the range of half a millimetre....

[Blasphemous]

Mechanical switches is the only feasible option for a home-built keyboard because they are the only ones that are made as individual components.
Mass-produced scissor-switches and most other rubber-dome switches are manufactured in sheets of one form of another. (stamped metal, moulded plastic etc.)

That's what I was afraid of. I want the physical aspects of scissor switches and the flexibility of individually arranged mechanical switches.

Can you print a PCB yourself?

Nope. I could probably find a place to do it for me or maybe even some of the people at work but I think an existing controller could be used from a cheap keyboard that already has the functionality that I desire.

You don't need mech but you don't want chiclet? That's difficult..

By chiclet I understand keys separated by a thin portion of plastic instead of being adjacent to one another.
They offer okay travel distance but their physical dimensions and shape are unacceptable.
To think about it, I don't exactly know what makes me hate the modern-day laptop chiclets but that's just how I feel.
The old type of laptop keyboards was perfectly fine.

I would suggest a Teensy 2.0 or a cheaper Arduino Pro Micro, and the TMK firmware.
With these, you will get full control over which keys you have and how your circuit is made.
There is a big community here of people who have built keyboards with those.

I'll check this option out.

I was also thinking about adjusting an existing keyboard but working with the printed sheet and cutting it to a different fit is not such a good idea.

[hanya]

Beside Cherry MX, Cherry makes also a lower-profile mechanical switch called Cherry ML. Switches and keycaps are easiest to snatch from a Cherry G84-series keyboard -- but... those keycaps are smaller than standard.
There are people who have successfully 3D-printed keycaps for it.

From the looks of it... Cherry ML could fit into a laptop. Think about the possibilities of a true mech keyboard in a laptop.

I'm waiting stock keyboard of Lenovo Ideapad Y900 which has TTC's thin mechanical switches, it might be ML compatible.

[iLLucionist]

Beside Cherry MX, Cherry makes also a lower-profile mechanical switch called Cherry ML. Switches and keycaps are easiest to snatch from a Cherry G84-series keyboard -- but... those keycaps are smaller than standard.
There are people who have successfully 3D-printed keycaps for it.

From the looks of it... Cherry ML could fit into a laptop. Think about the possibilities of a true mech keyboard in a laptop.

I'm waiting stock keyboard of Lenovo Ideapad Y900 which has TTC's thin mechanical switches, it might be ML compatible.

Looks goood. Now if only they put that in a reasonable laptop I would be soo happy.

[Darkshado]

OP, there's probably some switches not normally used in computer keyboards that might fit what you're looking for, ones that might be normally be found in computer mice, volume buttons on portable electronics, alarm clocks, etc.

I thought about cannibalizing laptop scissor switches, somehow making a plate to hold the scissors and sandwich individual domes between that and a PCB instead of a bottom membrane... Turns out something close to this already exists, see: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_short-throw_keyboards

[iLLucionist]

OP, there's probably some switches not normally used in computer keyboards that might fit what you're looking for, ones that might be normally be found in computer mice, volume buttons on portable electronics, alarm clocks, etc.

I thought about cannibalizing laptop scissor switches, somehow making a plate to hold the scissors and sandwich individual domes between that and a PCB instead of a bottom membrane... Turns out something close to this already exists, see: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_short-throw_keyboards

That looks awesome actually. Wondering whether it types as nice as full topre.

[DvorakDachshund]

To get what you're looking for, you might want to consider making your own PCB via acid-bath  and then filing the top off of your switches and forgoing keycaps, instead just covering the whole thing with a plastic/silicone sheet with key labels. You'd still (kinda) have the feeling of mech switches, thought it might feel a little mushy. But the surface would be completely flat, extending as far out as you want, and you'd cut the thickness by 1/3 to 1/2 by not having keycaps.

Just trying to think outside the box

[Blasphemous]

OP, there's probably some switches not normally used in computer keyboards that might fit what you're looking for, ones that might be normally be found in computer mice, volume buttons on portable electronics, alarm clocks, etc.

I thought about cannibalizing laptop scissor switches, somehow making a plate to hold the scissors and sandwich individual domes between that and a PCB instead of a bottom membrane... Turns out something close to this already exists, see: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_short-throw_keyboards

This is actually very close to what I want to achieve, though of course the layout is far from acceptable.

[iLLucionist]

OP, there's probably some switches not normally used in computer keyboards that might fit what you're looking for, ones that might be normally be found in computer mice, volume buttons on portable electronics, alarm clocks, etc.

I thought about cannibalizing laptop scissor switches, somehow making a plate to hold the scissors and sandwich individual domes between that and a PCB instead of a bottom membrane... Turns out something close to this already exists, see: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_short-throw_keyboards

This is actually very close to what I want to achieve, though of course the layout is far from acceptable.

Luckily you are not bound to that layout if you go the custome route