[GB] Sentraq TK78 Keyboard Kit (Closing/Troubleshooting)

[mogo]

I'll ship the 6 working PCB's out right now starting with the people who ordered first.

Also, I'm very sorry about the delays. The manufacturer promised that they could finish and ship everything by June 15th, but that hasn't exactly happened.

It's a bummer, no one can deny, but past GB's have proven that delays are definitely unpredictable and almost guaranteed. We appreciate you being communicative throughout the process, it definitely helps. 

[UsualSuspectXXX]

Everything looks so good, and thanks for the update! Kinda sad that I won't be one of the first 6 =[

[SmithTheNinja]

Thanks for the update dooder.

Even with the delay this board will be solidly worth the wait!

[kawasaki161]

Thanks for the update.

The hype is very real, especially because I'm #6 #5 on the spreadsheet.

Also thank you for looking for the measurements for me! As long as I get them a before the board arrives I'm happy.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

Thanks for the update.

The hype is very real, especially because I'm #6 on the spreadsheet.

Also thank you for looking for the measurements for me! As long as I get them a before the board arrives I'm happy.

You should give me your position on the sheet, this way your plate is sure to arrive before the rest of the parts

[kawasaki161]

You should give me your position on the sheet, this way your plate is sure to arrive before the rest of the parts

Haha I think I'll pass on that offer, I've already got to deal with the long time international shipping takes.

I've also just realized that I see my exact order on the 3rd picture (minus the Gateron Blacks ofc), being the black case, purple plate and black dyesub caps (which are actually just stand-ins). I'm still wondering if I should get GMK Skeletor for this one or not.

Just wondering, will we get shipping notifications?

[UsualSuspectXXX]

You should give me your position on the sheet, this way your plate is sure to arrive before the rest of the parts

Haha I think I'll pass on that offer, I've already got to deal with the long time international shipping takes.

I've also just realized that I see my exact order on the 3rd picture (minus the Gateron Blacks ofc), being the black case, purple plate and black dyesub caps (which are actually just stand-ins). I'm still wondering if I should get GMK Skeletor for this one or not.

Just wondering, will we get shipping notifications?

Fair enough. And that would definitely look awesome with Skelator!

[redbanshee]

Oh damn im #2? sick

[mogo]

Oh damn im #2? sick

I forgot the spreadsheet was available. #5 HYESSSSSS

[kawasaki161]

Oh damn im #2? sick

I forgot the spreadsheet was available. #5 HYESSSSSS

Actually I'm #5 and you are #4, I also took a while to realize that the first row is still being numbered even though no one is in there.

[breitling]

#14 for me... second batch! still hyped!

[mogo]

Oh damn im #2? sick

I forgot the spreadsheet was available. #5 HYESSSSSS

Actually I'm #5 and you are #4, I also took a while to realize that the first row is still being numbered even though no one is in there.

Oop! Off-by-one error strikes again! Still WOO!

[walter221]

Hi, will this become available again? or will there be a bluetooth option later on?

[SlithyDash]

Hi, will this become available again? or will there be a bluetooth option later on?

Oh man a Bluetooth version would be so sweet.

And to add to this set of questions, are you also planning to do a group buy for the left handed numpad version of the TK87? It's basically my dreamboard.

[redbanshee]

Hi, will this become available again? or will there be a bluetooth option later on?

Oh man a Bluetooth version would be so sweet.

And to add to this set of questions, are you also planning to do a group buy for the left handed numpad version of the TK87? It's basically my dreamboard.

considering the low turnout of the last GB (and complete failure of the massdrop GB) i wouldn't be surprised if this is never produced again

[scramm]

Hi, will this become available again? or will there be a bluetooth option later on?

Oh man a Bluetooth version would be so sweet.

And to add to this set of questions, are you also planning to do a group buy for the left handed numpad version of the TK87? It's basically my dreamboard.

considering the low turnout of the last GB (and complete failure of the massdrop GB) i wouldn't be surprised if this is never produced again

But what if I need a second one after I build this one?

[Zanduby]

Don't think I'm going to get my hands on one of these.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[doodersbrother]

Hi, will this become available again? or will there be a bluetooth option later on?

Oh man a Bluetooth version would be so sweet.

And to add to this set of questions, are you also planning to do a group buy for the left handed numpad version of the TK87? It's basically my dreamboard.

Hi, will this become available again? or will there be a bluetooth option later on?

Don't think I'm going to get my hands on one of these.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The left hand version will launch soon after, but with a cheaper winkeyless style acrylic case. We'll also most likely run the right hand version again later too, but not to sure when.

When can we finally start to hype again ?

On another note, do you mind giving me the inner case dimensions, the radius of the rounded corners and the exact placement and size of the screws? I'd love to design a 5mm Acrylic plate that sits flush with the case for my build, I'd love to get that done before the board arrives, so I can start building right away.

Here you are:

[SlithyDash]

The left hand version will launch soon after, but with a cheaper winkeyless style acrylic case. We'll also most likely run the right hand version again later too, but not to sure when.

  WOOOO! That's great news. I will definitely be looking out for that group buy! 

[kawasaki161]

When can we finally start to hype again ?

On another note, do you mind giving me the inner case dimensions, the radius of the rounded corners and the exact placement and size of the screws? I'd love to design a 5mm Acrylic plate that sits flush with the case for my build, I'd love to get that done before the board arrives, so I can start building right away.

Here you are:

Show Image

Thank you very much.
Intense hype intensifies

[Brammm87]

The faulty PCB's are being shipped to me on the 21st and I will troubleshoot them and get them remade ASAP.

Wow, you have to debug the hardware yourself? Out of curiosity? Is this because there's a flaw in (your?) design or in the manufacturing process?

After waiting 7 months for my Whitefox, I guess I can wait a little bit on this as well

[kawasaki161]

Just sent out my plate design, hopefully they will be able to source 5mm Acrylic in the right colortone.

Any updates about what will ship and when?

[skullydazed]

The faulty PCB's are being shipped to me on the 21st and I will troubleshoot them and get them remade ASAP.

Wow, you have to debug the hardware yourself? Out of curiosity? Is this because there's a flaw in (your?) design or in the manufacturing process?

After waiting 7 months for my Whitefox, I guess I can wait a little bit on this as well

There's a lot of variation in PCB assembly services. Some places you give them a lot of money and they build your boards according to various ISO standards, do things like X-ray the completed assemblies checking for problems, etc. Other places you give them a little bit of money and they give your stack of PCB's to a guy who sits there with a pair of tweezers, an air gun, and a syringe of solder paste. If they don't work it's on you to fix them (or pay more to have them fixed.) Sometimes you think you're paying for a shop that operates like the first, and it turns out it's more like the second. Sometimes a shop does good for a while and then one batch is bad.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The only tricky component on this board is the QFN-44 MCU. Some assembly houses don't have much experience with qfn, and as a result they may not be as careful as is required. They're not hard to hand solder with an air gun, but they're easy to make a mistake on.

[Brammm87]

The faulty PCB's are being shipped to me on the 21st and I will troubleshoot them and get them remade ASAP.

Wow, you have to debug the hardware yourself? Out of curiosity? Is this because there's a flaw in (your?) design or in the manufacturing process?

After waiting 7 months for my Whitefox, I guess I can wait a little bit on this as well

There's a lot of variation in PCB assembly services. Some places you give them a lot of money and they build your boards according to various ISO standards, do things like X-ray the completed assemblies checking for problems, etc. Other places you give them a little bit of money and they give your stack of PCB's to a guy who sits there with a pair of tweezers, an air gun, and a syringe of solder paste. If they don't work it's on you to fix them (or pay more to have them fixed.) Sometimes you think you're paying for a shop that operates like the first, and it turns out it's more like the second. Sometimes a shop does good for a while and then one batch is bad.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The only tricky component on this board is the QFN-44 MCU. Some assembly houses don't have much experience with qfn, and as a result they may not be as careful as is required. They're not hard to hand solder with an air gun, but they're easy to make a mistake on.

Had no idea, thanks for the explanation!

[aaron6301]

Doodersbrother, shot you a PM bud

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk

[redbanshee]

edit: I am a retard

[kawasaki161]

When are the first 6 going to be shipped? You said "right now", but that was 2 weeks ago and even after another week because of your vacation? Ship them please? I know you have other buys going on but we dont really appreciate being shelved!

Look at the spreadsheet mate. If I'm not mistaken these are some kind of tracking numbers.

[redbanshee]

Edit: i am a retard

Look at the spreadsheet mate. If I'm not mistaken these are some kind of tracking numbers.

ah fk i feel dumb now my bad !! sorry doodersbrother

[doodersbrother]

Hey guys, quick update.

Skullydazed very generously offered to take a look at the PCB's and see if he can figure out what's wrong with them. We also made a version of the PCB that uses the non-QFN version of the micro controller. We're getting that tested soon so if skully can't figure out what's wrong we have something to fall back on.

5/6 early kits have been shipped, and kawasaki I'll ship your first thing tomorrow. Sorry again everyone about the delay!

[doodersbrother]

Hey, for the 5 people who got their kits shipped early, please test to make sure every key works before soldering. Redbanshee warned me that his PCB seemed to have some issues such as it not registering keystrokes. We're still trying to figure out what's going wrong as the prototype worked flawlessly, but it seems more and more that the issue is with the controller and the soldering job with it.

[mogo]

Hey, for the 5 people who got their kits shipped early, please test to make sure every key works before soldering. Redbanshee warned me that his PCB seemed to have some issues such as it not registering keystrokes. We're still trying to figure out what's going wrong as the prototype worked flawlessly, but it seems more and more that the issue is with the controller and the soldering job with it.

How do you propose that we test it? Just solder in a few keys and test? Test something with a multimeter?

[kawasaki161]

How do you propose that we test it? Just solder in a few keys and test? Test something with a multimeter?

Conntect the PCB to the Computer and take something metallic (paperclip, tweezers, etc.) to connect the 2 holes the switch would connect when it is triggered, do so for every key covered in the standard firmware first. Let switch hitter or something similar run in the background so you know which ones you already tested. Once you are done and everything works you can either start building if you want to keep the standard layout, or adjust the layout in the firmware, flash the firmware and test the keys that have been changed before assembling (or, hopefully not, contacting dooders since something does not work).

[kawasaki161]

I see a tracking number  . If I could only get some info from the guy who said he'd do my plate, well unless there is some wonder going on he'll still have 1,5-2 weeks until I need it.

@ the guys that already recieved their boards, got anything to say about it thus far?

[mogo]

I just got home from vacation and it arrived; I haven't had any free time to pull it out and test it but I will as soon as I can!

[redbanshee]

I see a tracking number  . If I could only get some info from the guy who said he'd do my plate, well unless there is some wonder going on he'll still have 1,5-2 weeks until I need it.

@ the guys that already recieved their boards, got anything to say about it thus far?

I had problems with cold solder joints on the MCU and various other jumped legs on the other chips, I also had broken off diodes. All these problems rendered my PCB useless so I de-soldered it and am waiting for a replacement. I would highly recommend a close visual inspection especially of the diodes around the edges of the PCB and for crooked resistors. Also plug it in before you solder anything in and test that it is actually detected by windows actually works (especially around the numpad area). Jump all the switch connections to insure they work before soldering or you will have a bad time.

There are also issues with the plate:



Notice the switch partially covering the hole making it so you have to insert the screw BEFORE you solder in the switches (!?) this happens in 2 places. Also note that the plate looks like it was rushed out the door and there are tons of burrs and jagged edges on them.

Overall pretty disappointed in this board. 

[scramm]

Notice the switch partially covering the hole making it so you have to insert the screw BEFORE you solder in the switches (!?) this happens in 2 places. Also note that the plate looks like it was rushed out the door and there are tons of burrs and jagged edges on them.

Did you get far enough in assembly to see if this caused fitment issues as far as the case, and key caps?

[redbanshee]

Notice the switch partially covering the hole making it so you have to insert the screw BEFORE you solder in the switches (!?) this happens in 2 places. Also note that the plate looks like it was rushed out the door and there are tons of burrs and jagged edges on them.

Did you get far enough in assembly to see if this caused fitment issues as far as the case, and key caps?

I did not put keycaps on it, so I cant tell you that. The PCB/Plate seemed to fit fine into the case iteself. But the screw issue was pretty annoying.

Also remember you need to program it first before you put it in the case, because there is no hole in the back of the case to press the bootloader button. 

[kawasaki161]

I had problems with cold solder joints on the MCU and various other jumped legs on the other chips, I also had broken off diodes. All these problems rendered my PCB useless so I de-soldered it and am waiting for a replacement. I would highly recommend a close visual inspection especially of the diodes around the edges of the PCB and for crooked resistors. Also plug it in before you solder anything in and test that it is actually detected by windows actually works (especially around the numpad area). Jump all the switch connections to insure they work before soldering or you will have a bad time.

Oh, seems like you've had a rather bad experience with it .
I know I'll get a different version of the PCB that was assembled somewhere else, so I hope I won't have any of those major problems, but I'll definitely test it thoroughly before assembly. I'll probably do it the following way: 1. Visually inspect, 2. Connect to PC and test the connections with the standard layout, 3. Build and flash firmware in my desired layout, 4. Test all connections again, 5. Start assembly.  Better safe than sorry right?

[breitling]

Notice the switch partially covering the hole making it so you have to insert the screw BEFORE you solder in the switches (!?) this happens in 2 places. Also note that the plate looks like it was rushed out the door and there are tons of burrs and jagged edges on them.

Did you get far enough in assembly to see if this caused fitment issues as far as the case, and key caps?

definitely some design issues... the easiest way to deal with that covered screw hole might be to file away the corner of the switch thats covering it.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

Overall pretty disappointed in this board. 

This is pretty disheartening to hear after waiting so long for the TK78 to become a thing =/

[redbanshee]

I know I'll get a different version of the PCB that was assembled somewhere else

This is not the case unfortunately, they are not on order to be re-made as far as I know. 19 of the PCBs are being examined and repaired due to poor fab-house work, unfortunately those that cannot be repaired will have to be re-manufactured.

This is pretty disheartening to hear after waiting so long for the TK78 to become a thing =/

Hopefully doodersbrother will be transparent with the issues at hand and address them in a timely manner. I mean, its damn sexy assembled, there are just some issues under the hood.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

This is pretty disheartening to hear after waiting so long for the TK78 to become a thing =/

Hopefully doodersbrother will be transparent with the issues at hand and address them in a timely manner. I mean, its damn sexy assembled, there are just some issues under the hood.

Hopefully, key word.

[doodersbrother]

I know I'll get a different version of the PCB that was assembled somewhere else

This is not the case unfortunately, they are not on order to be re-made as far as I know. 19 of the PCBs are being examined and repaired due to poor fab-house work, unfortunately those that cannot be repaired will have to be re-manufactured.

This is pretty disheartening to hear after waiting so long for the TK78 to become a thing =/

Hopefully doodersbrother will be transparent with the issues at hand and address them in a timely manner. I mean, its damn sexy assembled, there are just some issues under the hood.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean as I've been transparent about the GB throughout the whole process. I posted about delays as soon as I heard of them, admitted the issues with the PCB's, told you how I plan to fix them, and posted updates as I found out more about what was wrong with them.

The screws I bought worked fine with my test board that was made with the rest of the orders and used the exact same design. I didn't catch this because if the switches aren't perfectly aligned with PCB they will overhang just a bit on the plate. The most likely reason for the jagged edges is that the manufacturer rushed the process because they were behind schedule. The PCB manufacturer I used is the same one used by a few well known companies so I didn't think there would be any problems.

Right now skully is helping to reflow the MCU's which were what was causing the issues. It's not going to be very quick as we have to go through each board one by one, but we are making good progress.

Also, I already ordered more screws that are smaller so hopefully those will get here soon.

[doodersbrother]

I know I'll get a different version of the PCB that was assembled somewhere else

This is not the case unfortunately, they are not on order to be re-made as far as I know. 19 of the PCBs are being examined and repaired due to poor fab-house work, unfortunately those that cannot be repaired will have to be re-manufactured.

It is the case. He's getting a board that was assembled by a different house during prototyping. I shipped that to him because you warned me that the PCB's I thought were fine weren't so I wanted to be sure.

[SmithTheNinja]

Right now skully is helping to reflow the MCU's which were what was causing the issues. It's not going to be very quick as we have to go through each board one by one, but we are making good progress.

Also, I already ordered more screws that are smaller so hopefully those will get here soon.

Thanks Dooders and Skully for all your hard work and making sure these go out just right. <3

Think you'll be sending them out one by one or waiting to get 5 or 6 fixed before doing shipping?

[mogo]

Testing time! Expand this bit if you want to see a series of photos.

More

E X C I T E


Plug 'er in


It shows up, name and everything (yes, i could have done a screenshot but the phone was in my hands and i derped and took a picture anyways)


Testing with a jumper.


Num2, come in Num2


My disappoint is enormous. Everything on the board works except for Num2, one of the very last keys I got around to testing. So... what now?

[kawasaki161]

Everything on the board works except for Num2, one of the very last keys I got around to testing. So... what now?

There seem to be quite a lot of points where you can check if the actual trace is the problem, just measure from the controller to the pads to find on which trace the problem is. Then go along that trace and look for damage, check the diode (if there is one on that side) and be sure to measure the connection from the small pads on the trace to the end pad. Damn that's hard to explain.
I hope it's just a dead diode.

[mogo]

Everything on the board works except for Num2, one of the very last keys I got around to testing. So... what now?

There seem to be quite a lot of points where you can check if the actual trace is the problem, just measure from the controller to the pads to find on which trace the problem is. Then go along that trace and look for damage, check the diode (if there is one on that side) and be sure to measure the connection from the small pads on the trace to the end pad. Damn that's hard to explain.
I hope it's just a dead diode.

I'll see if I can't figure out what that means when I get home this afternoon Thanks Kawasaki

[doodersbrother]

Everything on the board works except for Num2, one of the very last keys I got around to testing. So... what now?

There seem to be quite a lot of points where you can check if the actual trace is the problem, just measure from the controller to the pads to find on which trace the problem is. Then go along that trace and look for damage, check the diode (if there is one on that side) and be sure to measure the connection from the small pads on the trace to the end pad. Damn that's hard to explain.
I hope it's just a dead diode.

I'll see if I can't figure out what that means when I get home this afternoon Thanks Kawasaki

Hey, any luck? Looking at the diode for numbed 2, does it look damaged or the soldering sloppy? If not, do you have a multimeter?

[mogo]

I turned the board over and sure enough...

Found the diode at the bottom of the static bag. Should be a matter of careful resoldering, though I've not done solders this tiny and precise yet. Should be fun!