[IC] Kabuto SA - Massdrop Poll Added

[Arallu]

Hello all, welcome to the Kabuto thread, in it you'll discover a colorway I've been designing recently called Kabuto.
The color combination of tan, red, and dark grey is meant to evoke a traditional Japanese feel and was inspired by DSA Otaku, the Hosho IC thread, and of course Japanese Samurai armor.
The Kabuto name (Samurai helmet) symbolizes the keycaps as they sit atop our favorite switches!

Massdrop Poll




The PBT color codes I've settled on are RBH, TT, and GQT:


I originally started designing this as a DSA set, but I think running this with SP's new SA PBT dye-sub process, the same as used for Ice Cap and Industrial, opens up more designs, specifically the double legends seen in traditional Japanese layouts, but now in SA R3 profile.
PBT SA dye-sub is made by SP in uniform R3 profile. It currently doesn't have ISO Enter support and 7u space bars, although tooling for the space bars is in progress.  Also: Lead Times - "DSA and SA sublimated sets - 5 to 6 weeks, depending on the size".
Taking queues from DSA Granite Elven, JIS standard layouts, and Realforce HiPro keyboards, this set has alphas that are formatted with Hiragana and English subscript for practicality and approachability.


Pictures
Renders by Oblotzky




Kits
1. Base TKL


2. Numpad


3. Tsangan/60% Adapters


4. Alt Colors


5. Novelties


6. ISO kit



Updates:
- 1/3/17 - SP will be able to dye-sub the SA profile the same as DSA, so Hiragana w/ English subscript is still an option on the SA R3 keys.
- 1/4/17 - Fixed Icon mods and swapped F11/12 to vertical, settled on PBT SA
- 1/10/17 - Working on getting some renders made
- 1/12/17 - Updated numpad to Arabic numbers, tweaked the mods a bit
- 1/24/17 - Renders in progress, added text mods
- 1/25/17 - Renders uploaded
- 2/13/17 - added ISO kit

ToDo List:
1. Finalize kits
2. Update quotes from SP / Get Massdrop to pick it up

Completed:
1. Decide on colors
2. Build a couple layouts
3. Get a price quote from SP
4. With DSA HC Granite & DSA Otaku already available, going with SA profile
5. Sticking with Hiragana/English legends for now
5. Separated keys into kits
6. Renders added


Old revisions:

More

Key Layouts
Note: the colors from these layout samples aren't exact

Sample, with Hiragana/English, non-Icon Mods:



Sample Hiragana/English, Icon mods:


Sample Katakana alphas:


Sample, with Katakana letters:


Sample, with English letters:



Reddit design thread - https://www.reddit.com/r/keycapdesigners/comments/5c2g15/feedback_dsa_kabuto/

Color chips:


Special thanks to Oblotzky for the renders!
Thanks for looking!

Bonus pic - Keypress Keybuto

[LDobler]

I really like this design! I would like it in DSA of GMK! 

[Vigrith]

I'm not even big on Japanese culture but this is wonderful. I much prefer DSA to SA and I think it'd fit the theme better than GMK, though I'd not say no to it then either.

[zslane]

The only thing limiting your design if you go with dyesub PBT SA is the fact that SP currently only has dyesub setup boards for R3 at the moment. There's no reason you can't have an ISO kit or a kit for alternate layouts.

[Arallu]

The only thing limiting your design if you go with dyesub PBT SA is the fact that SP currently only has dyesub setup boards for R3 at the moment. There's no reason you can't have an ISO kit or a kit for alternate layouts.

Yep, forgot to mention that it would be an all R3 profile. The ISO Enter is what SP doesn't have atm though.
Edit: the other thing with DSA is that I wouldn't want to copy Otaku directly with Katakana in DSA profile, I think if I went DSA I'd stick with the Hiragana letters & English subscript, hence the sample above 

[Data]

DSA Hiragana with English subscript is the clear winner for me.

[Saiph]

DSA Hiragana with English subscript is the clear winner for me.

I agree

[Tom_Kazansky]

DSA Hiragana with English subscript is the clear winner for me.

I agree

same here

[derezzed]

I'll be the first person to say that while the red Roman letters provide a nice accent, I strongly prefer the kana-only legends.  I can't decide whether I prefer the Hiragana or the Katakana.  Also, this set pretty much requires a keyboard with a function row because you're losing a major component of the colorway without the function row keys.  That's not a criticism, just an observation that it would be a crime not to put those caps on the keyboard.  You can check out the High Contrast Granite set at Pimp My Keyboard for an example of how distinguishable the legends would be on the modifiers.

[doooostin]

I prefer the first one, with katakana legends.

[thad]

The first one is best

[afrokobe]

I like the theme, but I am not sure about the colors together.

[LDobler]

I like the version with the english subscripts the best. 

[jebbra]

Interested! Really like the Hiragana, wether with latin alpha or not. My 2 cent: the capslock, shift, and alt icon are too tall compared to their width. I vote for using icon mod tho, loving my granite.

[losskutleboys]

if this set get popular maybe you can do multi alphas. I'd prefer dsa only because i need a good set of dsa and there are so many sa sets lately   

[hanya]

Even in Meiji period (1868-1912), Japanese language did not have left to right writting. If you write 11 and 12 in Kansuuji, it should be vertical or right to left. Kansuuji means numbers written in Chinese characters used in Japan.
Maybe "零" for numerical 0 character looks cool.

[PatchSalts]

Even in Meiji period (1868-1912), Japanese language did not have left to right writting. If you write 11 and 12 in Kansuuji, it should be vertical or right to left. Kansuuji means numbers written in Chinese characters used in Japan.
Maybe "零" for numerical 0 character looks cool.

The only problem is with the people who have the double zero key on the numpad. How do you represent a double zero with 零?

[Arallu]

I'll be the first person to say that while the red Roman letters provide a nice accent, I strongly prefer the kana-only legends.  I can't decide whether I prefer the Hiragana or the Katakana.  Also, this set pretty much requires a keyboard with a function row because you're losing a major component of the colorway without the function row keys.  That's not a criticism, just an observation that it would be a crime not to put those caps on the keyboard.  You can check out the High Contrast Granite set at Pimp My Keyboard for an example of how distinguishable the legends would be on the modifiers.

Thanks, yep the HC Granite Icon mods look perfect, I didn't realize it was GQT until just now.
I do have the red ESC, Enter key, & Arrow keys as color accents for non-function row setups, similar to how I've seen some Round 5 SA sets look. Actually, one of my initial designs had a Shinobi blackout kit which was just the dark grey Function Keys/arrows/extra mod keys.

The straight black/tan looks pretty good imo, in a 60% layout (granted this grey isn't accurate, but it's close):

Even in Meiji period (1868-1912), Japanese language did not have left to right writting. If you write 11 and 12 in Kansuuji, it should be vertical or right to left. Kansuuji means numbers written in Chinese characters used in Japan.
Maybe "零" for numerical 0 character looks cool.

Thanks, I wanted to change that to vertical, but everything I found online shows 11/12 as left-to-right.
I'll update the F11/F12 keys.

Interested! Really like the Hiragana, wether with latin alpha or not. My 2 cent: the capslock, shift, and alt icon are too tall compared to their width. I vote for using icon mod tho, loving my granite.

Yep, they are too tall. I'll update them since my intent was to use some of the icon mods from Granite/Otaku, but I think that might just be how keyboard-layout-editor shows those symbols.

[Vigrith]

My vote would be for Hiragana (or katakana) with no latin. I dislike sublegends overall, though it does look alright in your mockups too so if that's the way it ends up being I'd still be in.

[Arallu]

So wow HC Granite is using GQT with Icon mods in DSA. I didn't realize that until today.
I suppose you could pair DSA HC Granite mods with DSA Otaku alphas for a set that almost exact to this.
I'm going to swap to SA R3 PBT dye-sub as the preferred style then, to 1) differentiate from DSA HC Granite & DSA Otaku, & 2) present a set in SA profile with Japanese alphas.

[Kominyetska]

I'd be in for DSA. Looks awesome!

Edit: and no sublegends! Go all Japanese with no latin lettering.

[a_ak57]

Any chance of a 6u spacebar for novatouched HHKB/Topre compatibility?  Man I really wish these boards just had a 6.25u space, so many sets are a no-go.  :/

[Oblotzky]

Any chance of a 6u spacebar for novatouched HHKB/Topre compatibility?  Man I really wish these boards just had a 6.25u space, so many sets are a no-go.  :/

Signature Plastics doesn't have a 6u Spacebar mold

[a_ak57]

Well that's disappointing but thanks for the info, at least now I'll know what ICs/GBs to instinctively skip over.

[e_l_tang]

Any chance of a 6u spacebar for novatouched HHKB/Topre compatibility?  Man I really wish these boards just had a 6.25u space, so many sets are a no-go.  :/

Signature Plastics doesn't have a 6u Spacebar mold

Oblivion is looking like it's going to be a relatively popular SA set. Have you considered working with SP to make one?

[potatobot]

man can you please make something with purple + japanese legends? I would love to make it but ive got my hands tied to some other keyset that should happen but is getting nowhere as of the moment. 

[jgodinez302]

I like it, but it's too similar to my DSA otaku to justify spending extra on this :/ But it looks great! It will be a great opportunity for those SA lovers to jump on

[gadzkun]

im vote Hiragana legends and English

[rabbitfire]

Like the colorway but not the all R3 profile 

[Arallu]

Like the colorway but not the all R3 profile 

Ya, as a fan of SA profile, the only way to get them made that way would be to pay for the 50+ molds to be made, but with the PBT SA dyesub stuff like Hiragana w/ english subscript can be done.
SP only does that in R3 though but they don't have an ISO enter mold and are currently tooling a 7u spacebar with an unspecified eta.

[hanya]

Even in Meiji period (1868-1912), Japanese language did not have left to right writting. If you write 11 and 12 in Kansuuji, it should be vertical or right to left. Kansuuji means numbers written in Chinese characters used in Japan.
Maybe "零" for numerical 0 character looks cool.

The only problem is with the people who have the double zero key on the numpad. How do you represent a double zero with 零?

"零々" or "零零". I found usage of 零々 in the complete works of Fukuzawa Yukichi published in 1898. 100285 could be written like 十萬零々二百八十. "萬" is old character form of "万"(ten thousand).

[Rob27shred]

I really dig this colorway, SA profile gives me pause but only because I have yet to try SA. I would love to see this in GMK but who knows I may really like SA. I'm in on the Godspeed SA GB so I'll know soon enough if SA is for me or not. Although I went with the more sculpted 1-1-2-3-4-3 layout with Godspeed which will not make for the best comparison to your all R3 set. Either way I'll admit my interest is very piqued with this colorway & I will most likely be in if this makes it to GB. Awesome work @Arallu, keep it coming!

[a_ak57]

Not to go too off-topic but regarding the 6u SA space bar, I just learned that the Danger Zone set actually had a 6u space bar.  Is there a reason SP wouldn't be able to just use their mold from that set for this (and others)?  I don't know anything about keycap manufacturing processes so is it that ABS (Danger Zone) uses different molds than PBT?

I'm probably literally the only person who cares so it probably wouldn't be added to the set even if possible, but I really do like this colorway and have never tried SA so I'm still clinging to hope.

[Arallu]

Not to go too off-topic but regarding the 6u SA space bar, I just learned that the Danger Zone set actually had a 6u space bar.  Is there a reason SP wouldn't be able to just use their mold from that set for this (and others)?  I don't know anything about keycap manufacturing processes so is it that ABS (Danger Zone) uses different molds than PBT?

I'm probably literally the only person who cares so it probably wouldn't be added to the set even if possible, but I really do like this colorway and have never tried SA so I'm still clinging to hope.

ABS and PBT are two different plastics. SP has lots of molds for doing doubleshot ABS but molding PBT (a harder plastic than ABS) in SA profile is something new SP is doing so all the tooling is new.
At least thats my brief take on it 

[hanoipho]

Looks great! Interested!

[arcsay]

I'm totally down for SA, I have too many DSA Sets

[Seelen]

My vote would be for Hiragana (or katakana) with no latin. I dislike sublegends overall, though it does look alright in your mockups too so if that's the way it ends up being I'd still be in.

I feel the same. My vote is definitely for hiragana, though I don't think the legends look too bad (many JPN keyboards retain romaji legends).

I really like the colors of this set BTW, very nice. The only thing is, I really don't like the idea of katakana. It just feels too..."oh look these are Japanese letters omg so cool gaize" I kind of feel the same way about the numpad using number kanji, though I very much like using it for the function row. That to me is natural and intuitive, though I use a TKL so I don't truly care one way or the other.

I'm really not a fan of icon modifiers though. I understand why you chose then, but it just feels somehow conflicting with the more sophisticated look of the kanji. Maybe it's just the actual symbols chosen, or something, not sure....All I can say is that's the one part of the set that sticks out like a sore thumb to me, the other things I mentioned were minor nitpicks. I don't know what the manufacturing limitations are like but, with dye sub, couldn't you use kanji for a few things?

I would LOVE to see more modifier novelties in Japanese, that would be amazing, so long as it's subtle. I noticed you have Samurai and Shinobi novelties, and samurai DOES fit with the title and theme if your set, but it's the same issue as with katakana..It feels a little cliche and cookie cutter. I guess what I'd love to see are more verbs, like for backspace you could have 消して (meaning erase). Just a quick example off the top of my head, not saying that's amazing. I mean, there is already Otaku DSA, which I believe is still available...With how similar the color scheme is to Otaku, it could use something a little extra to set it apart from Otaku, and all other sets, something that makes it signature and unique, and I kanji is one way to accomplish that.

I'm totally in for SA...I've purchased 2 SA sets recently, both 1-1-2-3-4-3, and both ABS, so it would be really nice to have a PBT set. My current DSA is PBT and I love the sandpaper feel to it...I've never used R3 before though, how is it? I actually quite like DSA for typing on, so I'm not averse to it, just not sure what works well comfort wise. Any thoughts?

I'm very curious as well, out of the people weighing in on the legend, how many of you speak Japanese? I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the people asking for katakana don't...And for those who don't, you might not have been exposed to the various atrocities plastered with katakana.

It's just been abused far too many times, rather than being "edgy" or "cool", now it's just gauche and feels like it's trying too hard. Just doesn't feel natural.

[Seelen]

Oh, and one more thing, regarding subscript. In part, I don't mind it because that's what standard Japanese legends look like, and because the standard red subscript color matches the theme...But also, it's SO much easier to input using QWERTY until you get used to a kana layout board, and I'm willing to bet that 98% of buyers would be using English at least some of the time as well, which makes the subscript helpful when remembering two separate layouts.

On that topic, a more substantial defense of hiragana beyond the aesthetic...I don't think as fast in katakana, and I certainly don't have the Japanese layout memorized. It's difficult to explain, but because katakana is used more for anglicisms and pseudo-anglicisms, and expressions, you just don't see it used very often outside of advertisements and as a "modifier" looked bold or italics.

Essentially, hiragana IS the kana...When you read Japanese script without kanji, 90% of it is going to be hiragana.

If you don't care about Japanese and you just want katakana for the aesthetic, then at that point you might as well just be slapping random characters on there for all the good they're going to do...And they might look a lot cooler, too! I guess it's a question of whether this is a Japanese keyset, or a keyset with a samurai theme that has a bunch of Japanese things in it. I'm really really hoping for the former, as it's something I haven't really seen around here, and is a lot more subtle.

Okay, here's the best way I can explain it, and other Japanese speakers know exactly what I'm talking about...Half the time you see kanji in a movie or on clothing, it's either just gibberish, or its plucked from some stockart...Katakana has that same feel to it.

Maybe there are Japanese speakers who want katakana, I don't know...I do know that it isn't me, and it certainly isn't subtle.

[Arallu]

I get where you're coming from, and I did originally look at JIS keyboards for reference, feeling that a more practical and approachable keyset (with samurai theme) was where I started from and most existing Japanese sets were english with hiragana subscript. Looking at Otaku though, the Katakana seems much more popular but you're right, it's more of a keyset with japanese symbols on it, which is perfect for what it is.
An all SA R3 set is a non-sculpted set, where most SA sets come sculpted like 1-1-2-3-4-3 or something this would be all 3-3-3-3-3-3 if that helps.
I do like the idea of the symbol mods, and i went with the kanji for Escape for the Esc key.
I'll have to think about different symbols or kanji though, since the symbols I used are the unicode versions for the most part - http://xahlee.info/comp/unicode_computing_symbols.html.

Thanks for the feedback!

[jebbra]

I agree with what Seelen said. Except for the icon mod for me the icon just look more suitable than text but of course, using kanji as the text bring it to another level which I think will look great too. Point is, don't mix the Hiragana with Latin-text-modifiers.

Another suggestion regarding colors. The red on the F row is amazing, adding a nice simple touch to the overall scheme but seems like it will lost on keyboards without F row so my take is: how about red numrow? If you think it will destroy the overall composition, just add it as separate child kit and maybe with more novelties icon (I'm thinking about old Yen coin and make it like dice face–2 coins for number 2) like Carbon did. This way the variation will be richer and most importantly, the overall ambience can be applied on smaller keyboards.

[DRAZAH]

My favorite color scheme BY FAR. Great work on this and looking forward to updates.

[Arallu]

I agree with what Seelen said. Except for the icon mod for me the icon just look more suitable than text but of course, using kanji as the text bring it to another level which I think will look great too. Point is, don't mix the Hiragana with Latin-text-modifiers.

Another suggestion regarding colors. The red on the F row is amazing, adding a nice simple touch to the overall scheme but seems like it will lost on keyboards without F row so my take is: how about red numrow? If you think it will destroy the overall composition, just add it as separate child kit and maybe with more novelties icon (I'm thinking about old Yen coin and make it like dice face–2 coins for number 2) like Carbon did. This way the variation will be richer and most importantly, the overall ambience can be applied on smaller keyboards.

I suppose you could always use the F-row 1-12 as your number row, being symbols like they are it's almost interchangeable (well - and + would be your 11/12).
I can add a red spacebar, that way with there are red accented Esc, enter, space bar, and even arrow keys on layouts smaller than TKL.

More

As for the numbers, how's something like this?
Taking an example from the Hanafuda Card game (no Koi-Koi jokes ) which uses months/flowers for 1-12 (maybe 1-12 is better on the F-row instead of numpad), and 'empty' for zero and 'nothing' for double-zero:

[aikilink]

I like it! Would definitely be in for a set of just the kana, with no romanji!

[BlackInk]

any ideas on release date and GB go live? Ill grab 2-3 sets for sure thanks

[rioc]

oh yes! PBT SA... that I can live with very well... make it happen! (I usually prefer DSA, but for this set, SA is perfect, especially in PBT)

how the GB gonna be done? (Massdrop, or other?)

[e_l_tang]

Is there any reason the numeric keypad keycaps can't have Arabic digits on them like usual? Japanese keyboards have them, and there would be no question about the appropriate legends for the "0" and "00" keycaps.

[Arallu]

oh yes! PBT SA... that I can live with very well... make it happen! (I usually prefer DSA, but for this set, SA is perfect, especially in PBT)

how the GB gonna be done? (Massdrop, or other?)

I was hoping if there's enough interest to have PMK run it as one of their 'sets of the month', since it's their new PBT SA process, but if not I'll look at other options.

Is there any reason the numeric keypad keycaps can't have Arabic digits on them like usual? Japanese keyboards have them, and there would be no question about the appropriate legends for the "0" and "00" keycaps.

Ya, I agree. I swapped the numpad back to Arabic, the F-row will still be in Kanji.

[Arallu]

I agree with what Seelen said. Except for the icon mod for me the icon just look more suitable than text but of course, using kanji as the text bring it to another level which I think will look great too. Point is, don't mix the Hiragana with Latin-text-modifiers.

Another suggestion regarding colors. The red on the F row is amazing, adding a nice simple touch to the overall scheme but seems like it will lost on keyboards without F row so my take is: how about red numrow? If you think it will destroy the overall composition, just add it as separate child kit and maybe with more novelties icon (I'm thinking about old Yen coin and make it like dice face–2 coins for number 2) like Carbon did. This way the variation will be richer and most importantly, the overall ambience can be applied on smaller keyboards.

Aww, what about Latin on the Shift and Tab? After seeing Realforce HiPro keys - https://imgur.com/YWsM3YQ they look like they'd fit well.
Also, I want to try and keep the key count low for decent pricing.

[e_l_tang]

I agree with what Seelen said. Except for the icon mod for me the icon just look more suitable than text but of course, using kanji as the text bring it to another level which I think will look great too. Point is, don't mix the Hiragana with Latin-text-modifiers.

Another suggestion regarding colors. The red on the F row is amazing, adding a nice simple touch to the overall scheme but seems like it will lost on keyboards without F row so my take is: how about red numrow? If you think it will destroy the overall composition, just add it as separate child kit and maybe with more novelties icon (I'm thinking about old Yen coin and make it like dice face–2 coins for number 2) like Carbon did. This way the variation will be richer and most importantly, the overall ambience can be applied on smaller keyboards.

Aww, what about Latin on the Shift and Tab? After seeing Realforce HiPro keys - https://imgur.com/YWsM3YQ they look like they'd fit well.
Also, I want to try and keep the key count low for decent pricing.

Perhaps all the legends of this set can be patterned after those of HiPro keycaps?

[Arallu]

I don't know about all, I do like the unicode symbols and some keys don't have the real estate for text and a symbol.
I do think I'll add a 1u 半/全 key to the novelties though