Gaming keypad

[Bucis]

Hello! Long time lurker here.
Decided to show my project, which started long time ago - back in 2012 with GuildWars2 release.
Already on the GW2 beta testing i understood, that playing this game with a keyboard is not for me, so i did start looking for something in the market, but could'n find anything that suits me. So I started my own project.

1) There is my first try to solve a problem, it was already was better than keyboard:


As electronic i did use pcb from an old xbox joystick.
WASD movement went to thumb-stick and buttons for skills could be easily reached with fingers.
But the buttons was too hard to press and it required to look at it from time to time so i could position fingers correctly. So I had to figure out something better.

2) So I made next version of it:


Now some buttons are horizontal, but some of them vertical. And now I could play without looking at the keys - fingers all the time stay in the same spots...
So this result was already great for playing with ease 

3) I gave to my friends to try it out. Their feedback was very positive just had a problem with a different hand sizes so here was my try to solve that.



So I made a version which could be resized - up down, angle, and closer further away from palm-rest.
And this keypad had a custom made pcb.

4) After some years of hardcore  playing games with comfort  I noticed that for some games it was necessary to have more buttons, so here comes the upgrade 



As you can see its now used quiet a bit - all dirty of heavy use and some buttons falling off.
So there is 2 more rows of buttons, which took some time to get used to, but now I can't live without them 
This keypad used already 2 pcb's of old joysticks to support all the keys.

5)There was lot of trial and error, designs and models, which never made out of 3d modeling software. I spent a big amount of time till found a good design, where fits all what i wanted to see in it.




6) Then we bought 3D printer, from that point things started to develop a lot faster. We could try out all ideas, see mistakes, make fast changes and try again. And did not have to wait a long time for the result:


Got rid of 2 huge joystick pcb's and started to use Teensy.
Used old perforated steel plate to play with the tower placements.

7) Now we are here, 3D printed with sanding, polishing and painting:




Added some upgrades in the firmware.
Pc can recognize it as joystick (which requires JoytoKey software to configure buttons). Some of the games don't allow joystick or JoytoKey (khem... black desert ...khem  ), so I made it possible to switch to keyboard setup (but this one still needs an interface software to configure buttons).
Its also possible to adjust each tower for finger length and angle, same on a thumb-stick. Also add diodes too see which mode is on and possibility to dim them if they feel too bright. But there still are some work to do to make it perfect

[AMongoose]

VERY impressive.

[metalliqaz]

Looks awesome

[MatchstickMan]

This is incredible!

The row of switches just above the main cluster, are those intended to be pressed with your knuckle or how does that work? I imagine that's how the overhanging switches work, right?

The ergonomics board has a sticky for interesting "Making Stuff..." projects. I think they'd like that a lot!

[BlindAssassin111]

That is awesome, definitely a well thought out piece.

[Bucis]

Pressing buttons with tip of the finger. There is a video:

Sorry for no sound, baby crying in background

[mudcakehoney]

It looks like it came from the dark mind of a genius

[MatchstickMan]

Ah, thanks for the video!

Personally, I would want it more like a glove, which probably kills the second row switches, but bringing the hanging switches down so to press them is to just lift your knuckle up. I think it's how far your fingers extend to press the switches that gets me.

This is really awesome though! I love seeing unorthodox stuff like this!

[TomBodet]

What are you using for the thumbstick?

I've been dreaming of something and it turns out you made it right here.  That black w/blue trim render is right in the space I was thinking.

[Bucis]

Long time ago I had same idea pressing up row buttons with the knuckles, but it didn't work, coz they must be very low, and often i pressed them accidentally while pressing other buttons and was hard to put and take out hand from the pad.

[MatchstickMan]

Long time ago I had same idea pressing up row buttons with the knuckles, but it didn't work, coz they must be very low, and often i pressed them accidentally while pressing other buttons and was hard to put and take out hand from the pad.

Yeah, I imagine that could have been a pain. Maybe they could have some adjustability like the thumb cluster? Though that still probably wouldn't help too much. Good stuff! Welcome to GH!

[kurplop]

Thanks for sharing. It's always nice to see something that pushes the status quo. I don't think it would be comfortable for me because I have discomfort with any finger extension moves but definitely a 10 for craftsmanship and creativity. Welcome to Geekhack.

[xtrafrood]

God damn. I love the weathered yellow style; reminds me of the P-5000 from the Alien movie francise.

[Bucis]

What are you using for the thumbstick?

Something like that:

[TalkingTree]

That's one of the most impressive builds I've ever seen.

[menuhin]

ART!!!

You immediately entered my legendary hall of fame builder list on GH/DT/MK

[Coreda]

Looks like something that wouldn't be out of place in Half-Life 2

The multi-directional finger buttons remind me of the Datahand.

[luismonterieart]

I really enjoyed your piece and the approach you took in creating it. It was very well done.

[menuhin]

[emenelopee]

Very impressive: have a +1 from me.

[Findecanor]

Impressive indeed. I have seen home-made keyboards with rows of keys before down/forwards/backwards but not in multiple rows and not with custom Datahand-like keys.
I like how you made so many angles adjustable. Really cool project!

[sinusoid]

Wow. I love this :O Awesome process, awesome results, and a great show of skills and determination. Chapeau bas good sir!
Bonus points for the datahandish look. Appears to be very comfortable in use. I'm salivating at the vid.

I like the mechanical interface between the key and the microswitches in the  3d printed version. Nice leverage you got there.

That XY finger distance adjustment via bolts, heh, I was iterating something like this for a vertical stagger alps split keyboard. It's great to see this evolve independently in someone's design - probably most natural way to get this adjustability. I can't see it in the design, but adding a flat spring washer to the bolts makes them behave better during adjustments, especially the angle. The screws release gradually, and it doesn't go all wobbly out of a sudden, and is more slip resistant during use, doesn't distort easily.

Great looking wood iterations. I can see the hours that went into making these wooden ones, it's impressive. I used a similar method long time ago, though I would cut pieces of wood and glue them together into the overall shape before going at them with chisels and a handheld grinder. Worse appearance due to glue seams and you have to wait for the glue to set, but more effortless to make and you can work on a few parts in parallel before gluing the shape together.

What 3d printer?
What plastic?
What CAD software?

Oh and POST MOAR VIDS! :D

[funderburker]

Crazy impressive! I love seeing people that are not just making something unique for themselves and stop when they are done but they keep working on the idea and make it even more impressive! Damn fine job mate!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[_rubik]

Wow.... This is remarkable, unique, and so well done. Thank you so much for coming out of lurking to share. This was certainly a labor of love.

[TreeFrog]

Amazing design. I was going to try and build something like a Razer Orbweaver for my right hand (I'm a leftie), but this has given me a lot more to think about! Could you tell us about the switches you used, maybe post some pictures of the inside of the final device?

[Bucis]

Great looking wood iterations. I can see the hours that went into making these wooden ones, it's impressive. ...

What 3d printer?
What plastic?
What CAD software?

Oh and POST MOAR VIDS!

Thank you for good words, everyone 

It is comfortable to use indeed. No need to stretch your fingers unbelievable distance across the keyboard and the hand stays in the same position that's the big plus what I was looking for. Of course it takes some time to get used to it, like 1-2 weeks, depends how much games your are playing  but after that anyone who have tried it doesn't want to go back to keyboard.

The wooden iterations took me around 1 day each (learned to work with wood at school). They have much better feeling for the hand. But can't see how to put the wood in current version of the gamepad.

We are using Anet A8 3d printer, a cheap one, but after proper settings are found the print quality is good.
Plastic is PLA. Much easier to print than ABS.
For CAD software we are using SolidWorks (using it at work).

Will be posting more videos as soon as we film something more decent quality.

Also, currently we are making next gamepad with tiny improvements and fixes. Will paint it all matte black. Lets see how it turns out. Could take around a week

[corygrapher]

extremely impressive work.

[Bucis]

OK we just finished to make another keypad with several improvements, this time matte black (already sold) and a version with colored buttons.




Our plans for the future:
On the April-May we are planning to finish our webpage where it will be possible to order these keypads.
But anyone who wants to get it earlier, can contact us (azeron.keypad@gmail.com). As we are now in the final testing stage, there will be some small changes in the keypad, but it is possible to order now.


Here is some rendered color samples (you can choose whatever colored combinations you want):

[funderburker]

Wow, that's really nice and looks so good. Too bad I don't game that much (casual gamer and mostly platformers).

Any chance you could make a video with it Azeron in action? I'm quite intrigued to see how it is operated.

Keep up the good work and again - it looks great! 

[sinusoid]

Finishing those 3d prints by hand... Hardcore. I have to respect that. Sandpaper, then filler base and paint/lacquer? Or did you manage to automate it?
I hope you'll be able to scale up to injection molding, the way those parts are designed literally begs for it.

If you intend to sell them, I'd suggest using ABS or one of the other material mixes available. PLA alone has a low melting point, it might permanently distort if the keypad gets warm from sun during summer days. I'd suggest to test it at least, and make a note of expected storage/use properties. ABS tends to distort during printing, but you should be fine with a few modifications to your printer if you intend to go that route.

What electronics/software does it run on?

And finally - how does product deployment look like from the legislation POV in EU? I always thought this was a painstakingly complex process for custom stuff like this.

[vincent88928]

Hello! Long time lurker here.
Decided to show my project, which started long time ago - back in 2012 with GuildWars2 release.
Already on the GW2 beta testing i understood, that playing this game with a keyboard is not for me, so i did start looking for something in the market, but could'n find anything that suits me. So I started my own project.

1) There is my first try to solve a problem, it was already was better than keyboard:

Show Image

Show Image

As electronic i did use pcb from an old xbox joystick.
WASD movement went to thumb-stick and buttons for skills could be easily reached with fingers.
But the buttons was too hard to press and it required to look at it from time to time so i could position fingers correctly. So I had to figure out something better.

2) So I made next version of it:

Show Image

Now some buttons are horizontal, but some of them vertical. And now I could play without looking at the keys - fingers all the time stay in the same spots...
So this result was already great for playing with ease  ;D

3) I gave to my friends to try it out. Their feedback was very positive just had a problem with a different hand sizes so here was my try to solve that.

Show Image

So I made a version which could be resized - up down, angle, and closer further away from palm-rest.
And this keypad had a custom made pcb.

4) After some years of hardcore  playing games with comfort  I noticed that for some games it was necessary to have more buttons, so here comes the upgrade 

Show Image

As you can see its now used quiet a bit - all dirty of heavy use and some buttons falling off.
So there is 2 more rows of buttons, which took some time to get used to, but now I can't live without them  :D
This keypad used already 2 pcb's of old joysticks to support all the keys.

5)There was lot of trial and error, designs and models, which never made out of 3d modeling software. I spent a big amount of time till found a good design, where fits all what i wanted to see in it.

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

6) Then we bought 3D printer, from that point things started to develop a lot faster. We could try out all ideas, see mistakes, make fast changes and try again. And did not have to wait a long time for the result:

Show Image

Got rid of 2 huge joystick pcb's and started to use Teensy.
Used old perforated steel plate to play with the tower placements.

7) Now we are here, 3D printed with sanding, polishing and painting:

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Added some upgrades in the firmware.
Pc can recognize it as joystick (which requires JoytoKey software to configure buttons). Some of the games don't allow joystick or JoytoKey (khem... black desert ...khem  ), so I made it possible to switch to keyboard setup (but this one still needs an interface software to configure buttons).
Its also possible to adjust each tower for finger length and angle, same on a thumb-stick. Also add diodes too see which mode is on and possibility to dim them if they feel too bright. But there still are some work to do to make it perfect

Looks impressive.Hope the function so cool as well

[Bucis]

Finishing those 3d prints by hand... Hardcore. I have to respect that. Sandpaper, then filler base and paint/lacquer? Or did you manage to automate it?
I hope you'll be able to scale up to injection molding, the way those parts are designed literally begs for it.

If you intend to sell them, I'd suggest using ABS or one of the other material mixes available. PLA alone has a low melting point, it might permanently distort if the keypad gets warm from sun during summer days. I'd suggest to test it at least, and make a note of expected storage/use properties. ABS tends to distort during printing, but you should be fine with a few modifications to your printer if you intend to go that route.

What electronics/software does it run on?

Yes, its made hardcore by hand  takes some days.
And yes, we also hope to scale someday to injection molding, that's our dream.
Thanks for the suggestion about ABS, but I think PLA is a bit more durable and easier to work with. And PLA melting point is around 180°C, I think it should be fine, but we will test it.
We are using Teensy++ 2.0 as electronics, and JoyToKey as software. But we are planing to make our own software in near months.
About that legislation - currently we just sell it as handmade product.

[sinusoid]

Thanks for the suggestion about ABS, but I think PLA is a bit more durable and easier to work with. And PLA melting point is around 180°C, I think it should be fine, but we will test it.

PLA has glass transition temperature around 60-65 degrees Celsius. It's "workable" at 180, but gets soft at much lower temperatures (80 deg C from my experience). It depends on the mixes. I used some filaments based on PLA recently with additives that made them resistant to higher temperatures.

Btw, part shapes look like something you could make in silicone forms relatively easily, you might want to look into that for small volume manufacture. You can also print the molds and pour resin in them. PLA peels away from epoxy resin easily, and you'll end up using 20-50% less filament and printing time. Should do the same for polyurethane resins, but I didn't test it yet. Epoxy sandpapers down wonderfully compared to both PLA and ABS.

Good luck! 

[Bucis]

We have made new one, now with a metal plate so towers are even stronger now.




There is our Guild Wars 2 key mapping:


And finally proper gameplay video:

[TonyD]

really cool
It looks like its straight out of a sci-fi movie

[mogo]

This is an exquisite thread. Not just another idle-musings and a half-hearted attempt at a prototype that stalls out, you're going the distance with this. You have my curiosity and my attention, I look forward to seeing this project grow beyond its already impressive development! 

[TomBodet]

Thanks for the use vid. 

I'm wondering what strain is involved in using the upper levels.  It didn't look all that comfortable since you have to get over the standing lower row.

[Bucis]

Thanks for the use vid. 

I'm wondering what strain is involved in using the upper levels.  It didn't look all that comfortable since you have to get over the standing lower row.

Of course it is not as easy to reach as the lower buttons, but still much more comfortable than on keyboard. I usually put there something I don't use very often, like inventory, map, elite skill etc.

[emenelopee]

This is impressive - are you developing this for a marketable product or is this just for yourself? I thought you were going to stop at the wooden prototypes but you keep going. Keep on going!

[Bucis]

We would like to make it as marketable product, so people could see how great difference there is when playing games with this keypad. But we are stuck - next steps (molds, manufacturing, marketing) needs a LOT of money. So, currently we are offering people to buy it as hand-made / 3d printed model. It works the same way as manufactured ones (we use them ourselves for several years now, no problem), just takes longer to make them - and that means they are more expensive than if they would be if 'made in china'. But from the other side, we can give more individual approach to whoever uses our keypad - order your custom color, give the best support there is and receiving feedback in return to improve the keypad even more.

[algernon]

Have you considered doing a Kickstarter / IndieGogo campaign, to move towards actual manufacture?

I understand that's a whole lot of work to set up, run, and deliver, but is more forward-pointing than offering custom made ones, perhaps.

But, out of curiosity, roughly how much would a hand-made model cost? The gamepad is intriguing. Very intriguing.

[Bucis]

Yes, we thought about crowdfunding. But after consulting some people that have used it, they suggest to use it only when you are ready to manufacture, because the gathered money will not be enough for making molds. Crowdfunding is good for games and stuff that needs only work, not manufacturing.
We currently offer two custom made versions: 1) 3d printed and assembled - 100eur, or 2) 3d printed, smoothed, painted - 185eur
Also we offer 60 day try out period.

[funderburker]

A bit of an off-topic but I just now noticed that you're from Latvia.

Čau un veiksmi darbā! 

[algernon]

Yes, we thought about crowdfunding. But after consulting some people that have used it, they suggest to use it only when you are ready to manufacture, because the gathered money will not be enough for making molds. Crowdfunding is good for games and stuff that needs only work, not manufacturing.

Well, there is the Keyboardio Model 01, that got crowdfunded, and is now being delivered to backers and people who pre-ordered. They made custom keycap molds, custom case, and so on.

The UltimateHackingKeyboard also included custom molds for the case, and is also shipping, and ran a fundraiser on crowdsupply.

Dygma's Raise also finished a Kickstarter, but that's quite recent, and isn't shipping yet.

Point is, there are plenty of examples where hardware got crowdfunded, where that included manufacturing custom parts, and they delivered. Not saying it is the road you should take right now, just highlighting a few examples. There were many other successful hardware kickstarters outside of keyboards, too. You gotta work the manufacturing price into the tiers, I suppose.

We currently offer two custom made versions: 1) 3d printed and assembled - 100eur, or 2) 3d printed, smoothed, painted - 185eur
Also we offer 60 day try out period.

That's not too bad, and I have a birthday coming up in a few months... hmm.

Thanks for the info!

[sinusoid]

[...] got crowdfunded, and is now being delivered to backers [...]

Right now it's more of an exception than a rule for most hardware crowdfunded projects.
This can, and most probably will, fail in a lot of spectacular ways, some of which end with you in a closed garage, engine on, and fall out boy on the radio.

@Bucis,
suggestion - upgrade to silicone molds to increase turnover, hit Artisan Services section.
no more painting and grinding.

[algernon]

[...] got crowdfunded, and is now being delivered to backers [...]

Right now it's more of an exception than a rule for most hardware crowdfunded projects.

There's the Librem laptops too, if you want some other examples. Or the GlowForge 3D laser printer. All of these are much more complex than this keypad (which is in turn more complex than most keyboards that got crowdfunded).

Yes, there are a lot of failed hardware kickstarters. But there are plenty of succesful ones too. Pretty much the same deal as with any other crowdfunding... most will fail, some will succeed. One needs to work hard on succeeding. Thankfully, there are plenty of good examples to learn from!

[Dominathan]

Holy damn!  I just found this, and damn do I want one of these!  Any updates?

[Bucis]

We are now gathering some feedback from our keypad users, and doing some small improvements constantly. One of biggest update: there soon will be keypad for left handed peoples. And our keypad can be ordered in Etsy or message me: azeron.keypad@gmail.com

[Dominathan]

We are now gathering some feedback from our keypad users, and doing some small improvements constantly. One of biggest update: there soon will be keypad for left handed peoples. And our keypad can be ordered in Etsy or message me: azeron.keypad@gmail.com

Wait, you're selling them custom now for only $120?!

[Bucis]

We are now gathering some feedback from our keypad users, and doing some small improvements constantly. One of biggest update: there soon will be keypad for left handed peoples. And our keypad can be ordered in Etsy or message me: azeron.keypad@gmail.com

Wait, you're selling them custom now for only $120?!

Yep, That's right.