Author Topic: [IC]Sanctuary Rebirth-Diablo-Inspired Exocet Keyset [Waiting for samples R2]  (Read 63704 times)

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Offline Grindbox

  • Posts: 16
And here comes the rational centrists with their attempt to TLDR everything incorrectly to give the yelling mob a nicer image.
But meh, what do I care? Iím getting what I want. The salty people who canít accept reality will move on eventually.
What exactly gives the people in this thread the image of a yelling mob?  Most people have remained civil in this, there's no reason to label people.  There are some bummed out people and it's fair for them to have been excited, it's not often a cool keycap set comes with so much esoteric layout support.  Glad you're getting what you want but you don't have to attack people.

OP's ergo & ortho kit designs were siiiiiiiiiiick. Those would have been the coolest legends *ever* to have hit reverse-dyesub PBT, and it only would have been possible with the Sanctuary Rebirth theme. It was perfection
I totally agree.  The legends are so awesome.  Fingers crossed for ergo support in round 3.



Offline blizzara01

  • Posts: 112
I am not generally attracred to red color but this is one of a kind. Imma hop in when the gb comes

Online OracleKev

  • Posts: 397
I think people have a right to be disappointed, we've been following this IC for years, building a set of kits we really liked, then overnight everything changed. It's a bit crap, and people have the right to express their disappointment.

If you're still going to buy the set, great. Don't **** on everyone else because they've lost all the compatibility they wanted.
This is precisely how I feel as a colemak user. I don't expect every keyset GB organizer to cater to my niche needs. In fact, I expect the opposite. I check most GMK sets to see if they plan on supporting it. 99% of the time they don't, and that's fine and I leave it alone. The annoying thing is that this IC has been going on for a long time with colemak support being offered day1, having me patiently follow it for so long just to drop it. I don't think people should aggressively express anger or anything, but when that happens you can expect vocal disappointment. Maybe future organizers will see all these people upset and learn from it.

I think you guys are getting acute negative reactions because the trend and economics [of dwindling outlier niche support] have been well known for a long while.  The critical path here isn't lack of GB organizer action.  It's weak sliding demand.
So, when disappointments are expressed with shades of layout efficiency as justification, it's passe and looks childish and waste of time.

It would be more productive to rally community support to generate more demand, or come up with other proposals like lower MoQ at premium pricing.

Offering my 2 cents since I'm sympathetic to all dwindling niches support - eventually it could be me in your shoes.

Offline jortzii

  • Posts: 90
.
Or do you just want "proper legends" so you can continue to show off your colemak caps and pretend to be better than everyone else that uses an outdated, ridiculous method like staggered qwerty?

Yes, this. Unironically. For me it's actually Dvorak, but it's all the same for most folks reading. FWIW I type fine on inexpensive blanks, because that's how I started out, but when I spend hundreds of dollars on keycaps, those keycaps had better reflect something important about me. Something that's Qwerty-only is not worth it to me. Sure, a standard ANSI-layout Qwerty board has it's uses, but about 9 out of 10 of the ICs here for Cherry-profile keycaps are *only* for that.

Somewhere along the way, somebody said those kits should be nixed and that it wouldn't be a problem because not enough people care about those kits, but it is a problem, and me being quiet about it would be too convenient for them. Now that the ergo/ortho/colevrak kits are out of the picture, I am too, and I just want the reason why to be clear.

OP's ergo & ortho kit designs were siiiiiiiiiiick. Those would have been the coolest legends *ever* to have hit reverse-dyesub PBT, and it only would have been possible with the Sanctuary Rebirth theme. It was perfection, and now it ain't happening. Have you seen the "Planck compatibility" of the standard TKC reverse dyesub keysets? They all assume you piece it together from keycaps from the main fullsize-board kit. The best you can do is the standard Planck layout, which isn't even a popular Planck layout, if you look at how it differs from the vast majority of what other users have in the main QMK planck/keymaps/ folder. Psuedo-blanks are waaaaaaaaaaay better and that's one of the great things Sanctuary Rebirth had going for it.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
It's not the OP wanting to drop it, it's that they had to switch factories from the inception of this IC to now. It's unfortunate for sure, but it is what it is. I totally get wanting that kit compatibility and wanting more sets to support it, but the fact is that very few people use it and many alt kits fail to hit MOQ.

Offline Dymloslouire

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i'm very sorry. i tried to cater us all, but as you can see, this is not a good situation for us, but i don't have much choice. it's either this or not at all.
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 May 2019, 07:12:50 by Dymloslouire »

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Offline TuCZnak

  • Posts: 191
  • Location: Where ISO is the default (anywhere but USA)
i'm very sorry. i tried to cater us all, but as you can see, this is not a good situation for us, but i don't have much choice. it's either this or not at all.

Have you considered running this with other company than TKC then? There are more manufacturers that can do 5-sided dyesub, Keyreative springs to mind as the first choice
MOQ means Minimum Order Quantity. You either reach it or you don't, there's no "pushing for higher MOQ", just pushing for more orders.

Offline Vigrith

  • Posts: 1541
Have you considered running this with other company than TKC then? There are more manufacturers that can do 5-sided dyesub, Keyreative springs to mind as the first choice

This was meant to be a Keyreative set at the start but they just basically ghosted after a while so I assume they're still not interested.

Offline Surefoot

  • Posts: 70
Given how long Keyreative are taking for KAM Wraith or upcoming KAT sets.. i wouldnt hold my breath for them.
Also, no ISO is brutal. I would have certainly paid just as to support a PBT set as these are still way too rare...

Offline Auxo

  • Formerly CJD_Anthony
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Have you considered running this with other company than TKC then? There are more manufacturers that can do 5-sided dyesub, Keyreative springs to mind as the first choice

This was meant to be a Keyreative set at the start but they just basically ghosted after a while so I assume they're still not interested.

That's a true pity, maybe if they ever resurface, they can come back for a round 2 for some full kit coverage.

Offline menuhin

  • Posts: 997
  • Location: Germany
There are some yet-to-be-disclosed issues with TKC's dyesub GBs:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99233.msg2766620;topicseen#msg2766620
in the factory that TKC has now entrusted this Diablo GB to.
Wishlist: 1) hotswap boards for MX and for Alps; 2) Alps64; 3) Universal Teensy convertor; 3) Quack & Split Planck; 4) Solid cases like TX
More
Wishful-list: 1) HASU BT battery lasts a year; 2) ABS Shine-proof/PBT DoubleShot spherical; 3) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 4) Endgame
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[typing slowly at ~80WPM, in love with Emacs, and growing in Lisp]

Offline sevenseacat

  • Posts: 233
  • Location: Australia
> delivery in 4-6 weeks
> delayed 60 days

geez....

Offline oldcat

  • Posts: 2052
  • Location: Arizona
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any way this will go to GB stage?

Offline MFahim

  • Posts: 52
  • Location: Osakikamijima, Japan
any way this will go to GB stage?

Should be, it says coming "soon" on TKC's website.

Offline mellen

  • Posts: 19
  • Location: California
in may to be exact, so hopefully they can come through

Offline menuhin

  • Posts: 997
  • Location: Germany
in may to be exact, so hopefully they can come through

Their Katakana said itís going to ship this month in May but has an at least 60 days delay...
Foresee this GB is going to hold my fund for at least 3 months + 60 days or longer.

Hope the pricing is similar to Katakana.
Wishlist: 1) hotswap boards for MX and for Alps; 2) Alps64; 3) Universal Teensy convertor; 3) Quack & Split Planck; 4) Solid cases like TX
More
Wishful-list: 1) HASU BT battery lasts a year; 2) ABS Shine-proof/PBT DoubleShot spherical; 3) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 4) Endgame
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[typing slowly at ~80WPM, in love with Emacs, and growing in Lisp]

Offline Kokaloo

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Well the positive side of there being a delay could mean we potentially get samples.  :D

Offline oldcat

  • Posts: 2052
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any way this will go to GB stage?

Should be, it says coming "soon" on TKC's website.

all in!

Offline ArchDill

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I am not a huge red fan.. but I am a huge Diablo fan... I may have to get this

Offline pewing

  • Posts: 33
Welp, I was counting on the other kits for coverage so I probably won't be participating anymore.  :(

Offline rdhx

  • Posts: 2
No ISO support anymore? Was really excited to make a Diablo themed custom board. What a bummer.. I'm out.

Offline menuhin

  • Posts: 997
  • Location: Germany
I was anticipating that this set is going to be an epic set.
But ended up this is hugely disappointing and the whole set is just a mediocre combination of limited keyset with this theme, nothing like having even half of the design freedom of the original post and renders.

I don't believe only this factory that refuses to work on extended kits is able to do up-to-QC standard reverse dyesub.

TKC rather than getting always stuck with this factory and its limitations should try to source from others.
Wishlist: 1) hotswap boards for MX and for Alps; 2) Alps64; 3) Universal Teensy convertor; 3) Quack & Split Planck; 4) Solid cases like TX
More
Wishful-list: 1) HASU BT battery lasts a year; 2) ABS Shine-proof/PBT DoubleShot spherical; 3) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 4) Endgame
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[typing slowly at ~80WPM, in love with Emacs, and growing in Lisp]

Offline Shihatsu

  • Posts: 36
This is sooo dissapointing - show some NorDe love, man... :(

Offline HotRoderX

  • Posts: 672
I am calling it now, bet this set gets canceled cause of all the crying over sets that wouldn't hit MOQ anyway. Cause people are not willing to put there money were there mouth is. Want proof over half the GMK sets that never hit MOQ on child kits. Yet there massive crying about how people need kit XYZ and can't live with out it.

Offline oldcat

  • Posts: 2052
  • Location: Arizona
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I am calling it now, bet this set gets canceled cause of all the crying over sets that wouldn't hit MOQ anyway. Cause people are not willing to put there money were there mouth is. Want proof over half the GMK sets that never hit MOQ on child kits. Yet there massive crying about how people need kit XYZ and can't live with out it.

will find out. I am still in.

Offline Rayndalf

  • Posts: 112
I am calling it now, bet this set gets canceled cause of all the crying over sets that wouldn't hit MOQ anyway. Cause people are not willing to put there money were there mouth is. Want proof over half the GMK sets that never hit MOQ on child kits. Yet there massive crying about how people need kit XYZ and can't live with out it.
40s/Ortho/ergo, numpad and novelty kits hit MOQ regularly. That said ergodox kits are have some success, and colevrak and norde really struggle.

Online nguyenhimself

  • Posts: 435
I am calling it now, bet this set gets canceled cause of all the crying over sets that wouldn't hit MOQ anyway. Cause people are not willing to put there money were there mouth is. Want proof over half the GMK sets that never hit MOQ on child kits. Yet there massive crying about how people need kit XYZ and can't live with out it.
And I still think that what weíve been seeing here is just a vocal minority.
This set hasnít been marketed widely, so many people still have no idea it is coming.
The Diablo theme alone is enough to pull in buyers, and most people still use 60, 65% or TKL anyway, which the current kit serves just fine.
Sure, the risk of angering Blizzard is there, but imagine if the gamer crowd - with their CoolerMasters and Razers - get wind of this kit... Hell.
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 May 2019, 20:27:16 by nguyenhimself »

Offline TuCZnak

  • Posts: 191
  • Location: Where ISO is the default (anywhere but USA)
Sure, the risk of angering Blizzard is there, but imagine if the gamer crowd - with their CoolerMasters and Razers - get wind of this kit... Hell.

Imagine when the said crowd realizes that they're SOL because either their "gamer" board is in ISO or it has a 6u spacebar (very common in these keyboards) hence the set is incompatible even with them.
MOQ means Minimum Order Quantity. You either reach it or you don't, there's no "pushing for higher MOQ", just pushing for more orders.


Offline Grumms

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  • Location: New York
Tomorrow is June  :eek:

Online metalliccharles

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Please happen.

Offline vicissitude

  • Posts: 385
Any specific date?

Offline oldcat

  • Posts: 2052
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updates?

Offline TuCZnak

  • Posts: 191
  • Location: Where ISO is the default (anywhere but USA)
I guess it didn't launch in May then
MOQ means Minimum Order Quantity. You either reach it or you don't, there's no "pushing for higher MOQ", just pushing for more orders.

Offline Starius

  • Posts: 402

Offline TuCZnak

  • Posts: 191
  • Location: Where ISO is the default (anywhere but USA)
MOQ means Minimum Order Quantity. You either reach it or you don't, there's no "pushing for higher MOQ", just pushing for more orders.


Offline Blaise170

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Having been away from the community since last year and being an initial supporter of this IC, it's definitely disappointing that most of the kits won't be available. At the risk of being called a "crybaby", I will be dropping my support. I primarily wanted this keyset for one very specific keyboard which already had a Diablo-esque look to it, but it has a non-standard layout and macro keys which would be left on ABS while the rest of the keys would be PBT. In any case, I don't have that keyboard anymore (it was vandalized) and I'm not planning on getting a replacement anytime soon so it is what it is.
I proxy anything including keyboards (キーボード / 鍵盤), from both Japan (日本) and China (中國). For more information, you may visit my dedicated webpage here: https://www.keyboards.es/proxying.html

View my current and past keyboards here: https://deskthority.net/wiki/User:Blaise170

Online nguyenhimself

  • Posts: 435
Having been away from the community since last year and being an initial supporter of this IC, it's definitely disappointing that most of the kits won't be available. At the risk of being called a "crybaby", I will be dropping my support. I primarily wanted this keyset for one very specific keyboard which already had a Diablo-esque look to it, but it has a non-standard layout and macro keys which would be left on ABS while the rest of the keys would be PBT. In any case, I don't have that keyboard anymore (it was vandalized) and I'm not planning on getting a replacement anytime soon so it is what it is.
Wait, so even IF this set had all the kits you need, you still WOULD NOT buy it because you no longer have that one specific keyboard.
And yet you still feel the need to proclaim how you are "dropping my support"?
That's not being a "crybaby". That's being a waste of time reading your post.
Your support for this set vanished the moment you lost that keyboard, not when you learned what kits this set has.

Offline menuhin

  • Posts: 997
  • Location: Germany
@Blaise170

I think Blaise170 has his point.

People can as well take the stance of /r/MK - praise everything, with adversity to every kind of negativity or negative feedback or comments - to the extended of e.g. defending the keycap-cracking-box-stems

GH is now mostly a "groupbuy" (or project advertising) platform, but I can still tell here people at GH instead of just buying, they are more willing to voice out their demand to push for some advancements
Here is the original DCS Sanctuary:
https://drop.com/buy/sanctuary-dcs-keyset?mode=guest_open





This IC has be here for a while, and the initial renders suggest lots of improvements and compatibility advancements and also interesting options.
https://imgur.com/a/NTv6sxc
And now?

How but a difference or advancement?
Is it just yet another money hoarding project as long as a theme has enough supporters?

Consider that if a set is run for one time, one may have to wait for yet another few 3+ years to make it happen if the interest lives on:
If we do not try to push for an improvement right now, then when? Wait till half-hearted products came out and hope for yet another 3-4 or more years hoping another IC and GB to come?

This IC will live on - even if this current one does not work out. And the reverse dye-sub techniques are getting more and more mature with more factories being able to do that better - there will be more options. Other money hoarding project-workers will still target this IC.
Wishlist: 1) hotswap boards for MX and for Alps; 2) Alps64; 3) Universal Teensy convertor; 3) Quack & Split Planck; 4) Solid cases like TX
More
Wishful-list: 1) HASU BT battery lasts a year; 2) ABS Shine-proof/PBT DoubleShot spherical; 3) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 4) Endgame
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[typing slowly at ~80WPM, in love with Emacs, and growing in Lisp]

Online nguyenhimself

  • Posts: 435
Itís an IC. Things change. Not everyone can be satisfied. Look at the IC for GMK Oblivion R2, see how much it had since changed now that the GB is live. Many still arenít happy, but the majority are.

What you are asking for is infinitely postponing this GB until maybe a factory can probably do all-over dye-sub for all the kits. But when is that? 3 years? 5?

Look at how EnjoyPBT canít do full 40% kits or perfect spacebars yet, but they still charged ahead with amazing sets like 9009, KuroShiro, 2048 ,... to great acclaims and amounts of buyers.

The current base kit can fit a majority of keyboards these days (100% to 60%). Thatís more than enough to warrant a GB.

Offline MdotMaxson

  • Posts: 40
There are shift and enter 1u keys in the ortho render. But in the new base kit they do no exist....

Offline oldcat

  • Posts: 2052
  • Location: Arizona
  • 65% is Life
Itís an IC. Things change. Not everyone can be satisfied. Look at the IC for GMK Oblivion R2, see how much it had since changed now that the GB is live. Many still arenít happy, but the majority are.

What you are asking for is infinitely postponing this GB until maybe a factory can probably do all-over dye-sub for all the kits. But when is that? 3 years? 5?

Look at how EnjoyPBT canít do full 40% kits or perfect spacebars yet, but they still charged ahead with amazing sets like 9009, KuroShiro, 2048 ,... to great acclaims and amounts of buyers.

The current base kit can fit a majority of keyboards these days (100% to 60%). Thatís more than enough to warrant a GB.

Well said. just need the GB to start and ship money over.

Offline Acereconkeys

  • Posts: 404
  • Location: West Coast US of A
  • Happiness = life - expectations
I think a lot of the criticisms around the base kit feel off because the kits still really nice.

It's got support for 60/65/TKL/1800/many 40s/60 with arrows/, tsangan, split space, and probably more i can't see.

Remember, they

Quote
changed the base kit because the new factory can't cater ergodox and 40s. sigh.
we're very annoyed as well  (as Jebbra is one of those 40s user as well) but we can't do anything about it.

This wasn't a deliberate choice from the runners... What do you want them to do? Huff and puff and call off the buy for the tons of other users who want this set and try to continue negotiating with a supplier who won't cater to the runner's interest?
Acrylic Clueboard | Tex Blue Alps TKL | TMO50 Incoming | QXP Incoming | Realforce RGB | Nyquist

Current obsession: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94675.0

Offline pewing

  • Posts: 33
I don't really understand all of the bickering in here and it's probably super annoying for the runners so can we cool it?

The vast majority of people who said they won't be joining the drop anymore (Including myself) aren't really complaining, just stating that they'll no longer be participating. The point of an interest check is to gauge interest and get an idea of how many folks will be participating. Several months ago I said I was in for multiple kits so I felt obligated to let the runners know that's no longer true.

It's okay for people to be disappointed but there's really no point complaining or being resentful towards the GB runners. I personally still think the base kit is really cool, I just can't get decent coverage on my weird layouts with it and there are so many other good sets running right now that I'd rather support those instead.

Online nguyenhimself

  • Posts: 435

Me too, I havent been on discord lately and was wondering about this. any reason? qc issues with dyesub ?

No quality issues. Logistics. Took almost 6 weeks to get payment to the factory because the transfer kept bouncing back. In the meantime they got some large orders. Been a pain in my butt! Sorry for the delays and lack of updates here. All updates are always available on our Discord server.
In case people are worried there was production problems with the other PBT sets TKC is running.

Online OracleKev

  • Posts: 397
Did the runner or TKC get samples from the factory?
If it's Drifter quality, I'd be happy.

Small gripes for this run not as hmm custom as R1, but that was 3+ years ago.
Different era.  So, not going to compare to it.

Offline Blaise170

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    • XYZ
Wait, so even IF this set had all the kits you need, you still WOULD NOT buy it because you no longer have that one specific keyboard.
And yet you still feel the need to proclaim how you are "dropping my support"?
That's not being a "crybaby". That's being a waste of time reading your post.
Your support for this set vanished the moment you lost that keyboard, not when you learned what kits this set has.

So you are going to reject my post on the basis of not having the original keyboard anymore? This IC has been dragging for quite some time now and I told myself that I would replace that keyboard once this set went to GB phase - but it now doesn't have the kits I need and therefore I have no intention of getting that keyboard (at least for now). I could complain about how this or that happened but ultimately it doesn't suit my needs anymore - so I'm dropping my support.
I proxy anything including keyboards (キーボード / 鍵盤), from both Japan (日本) and China (中國). For more information, you may visit my dedicated webpage here: https://www.keyboards.es/proxying.html

View my current and past keyboards here: https://deskthority.net/wiki/User:Blaise170

Offline Auxo

  • Formerly CJD_Anthony
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LF> 1 chill

Offline Kokaloo

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Still very excited for this set, Bun knows they have a lot of constant nagging support from discord. :p

Offline HotRoderX

  • Posts: 672
Wait, so even IF this set had all the kits you need, you still WOULD NOT buy it because you no longer have that one specific keyboard.
And yet you still feel the need to proclaim how you are "dropping my support"?
That's not being a "crybaby". That's being a waste of time reading your post.
Your support for this set vanished the moment you lost that keyboard, not when you learned what kits this set has.

So you are going to reject my post on the basis of not having the original keyboard anymore? This IC has been dragging for quite some time now and I told myself that I would replace that keyboard once this set went to GB phase - but it now doesn't have the kits I need and therefore I have no intention of getting that keyboard (at least for now). I could complain about how this or that happened but ultimately it doesn't suit my needs anymore - so I'm dropping my support.

The post you made just come off as rambling and whining. The entire group buy becomes mute once you sold the board you planned to use. Then this most recent post makes less since. "I planned to sell the board once the group buy started", what the heck? I guess what the poster was trying to point out was your not making since. 
 
As far as the buy goes, I am still massively excited.