Author Topic: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL  (Read 35924 times)

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Offline zekth

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[IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 12:53:19 »


Here is the revival of GMK Wapuro with the approval of MacGruber117. I was hoping for a long time for this IC to be revived and finally I tackled it myself.

Wāpuro? Nani?

Between the typewriter era and the age of modern computers, Japan had to come up with a new input system as well as suited hardware for the task. Typing hardware... The 80s came and typing Japanese got incredibly easier thanks to the invention of the Japanese word processor by Sharp. Until then typing Japanese was an exceptionally slow and tedious task. 50 wpm got you a job at the time.

Word Processor -> wādo purosessā -> wāpuro

The whole concept of Wāpuro rōmaji (ワープロローマ字) revolves around using a qwerty keyboard with Roman letters to input Japanese characters. Simply put, the user's keystrokes turn into kana on the screen and a drop down menu with choices narrowing down as you type will give you options to choose from.
Wāpuro inputs are standardized through the JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) system of regulation, same concept as ANSI and ISO.
This keyset is an homage to the line of word processors from Sharp particularly. While they invented the first prototype in 1977, it took a few years for the machines to become reasonably sized and affordable. The logo font as well as visual elements in this IC are directly tied to what could be displayed on a word processor from the 80s, such as the Sharp WD-A330 or the Sony PJ-100 that this keyset is inspired from.

A great read on the topic: https://linguaholic.com/linguablog/japanese-alphabets/

Keyboard Renders




More renders
More








Kits












Manufacturer's choice
I contacted JTK to do triple shots and pad printing but they told me it would be too expensive; so the choice of falling back to ePbt was obvious in a sense. Allowing better customization and better kitting possibilities for a cheaper price.

Few Questions
  • In the Japanese legend text kit i put 2 sets of enter keys as the top one is directly inherited from the original keyboard and the bottom one is the katakana version. I have no strong feeling on this choice but i think the hiragana one is more aestheticly pleasing. What's your thoughts?
  • I tried to be as tight as the original project with some modern kitting. Sublegends have been updated also (some were missing). Any comment on those?

FAQ
  • Is it weeb dolch? Į\_(ツ)_/Į
  • Any INTL kit other than UK? Sorry but no
  • Artisans collabs? Nothing planned yet
  • Deskmats? incoming


Colors



Vendors

Worldwide: Kbdfans
EU: Candykeys
UK: Prototypist
USA: Mechs & Co
Canada: DeskHero
AU: SwitchKeys
South East Asia: Monokei
India: StacksKB

Thanks to @marcokbd for the renders, @Kustom3 for huge support; all of the other you know who you are and you know how thankfull i am.

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ToDo
  • Validate all front legends
  • Validate text kit legends
  • JIS compatibility
  • 40 Kit

References
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KeyFront Legend
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Tabタブ
CapsLockキャップロック
Shiftシフト
Backspace前削除
Enter改行
Insert挿入
Homeホーム
PgUp上がる
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Updates
04.08.21 : IC creation
« Last Edit: Tue, 03 August 2021, 12:59:04 by zekth »

Offline kure_

  • Posts: 42
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 12:54:01 »
reserved. I Really love this set

Offline kustom3

  • Posts: 127
  • bonjour
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 12:54:30 »
Reserved

Offline of_sam

  • Posts: 240
  • Location: United States
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 12:54:47 »
This is bad ass.
Typing on: Guga60 - 205g0 Vint blacks w/62g TX 16mm, GMK WoB
Collection: F1.69, Police, Jane V2 CE, Jubi (2x), Nunu, FLX Virgo, Guga60, Kei

Offline OtherAndrew

  • Posts: 259
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 12:57:23 »
very cool set

if you're undecided on modifier legends, its best to look at what actual japanese keyboards do, and this goes for all of them

Offline nu_types

  • Formerly Iredeus
  • Posts: 439
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 12:59:21 »
Yesssss

Offline Bunn3y

  • Posts: 49
  • Location: Perth, Western Australia
  • Lumis Eterne
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 12:59:58 »
Weeb Dolch, I like.

Offline Alessio01

  • Posts: 80
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Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:01:37 »
kana + text kits looking kinda sick.

Offline Bachoo

  • Posts: 229
  • Location: Canada, Eh!
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:02:16 »
Front facing legends make me feel some type of way

Online dededecline

  • Posts: 255
  • Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:04:50 »
Please consider adding a 40s kit and adding 2x 3u spacebars. ePBT 40s kits have had a lot of success and ePBT's MOQ is very friendly to child kits

I'm so in if there's hiragana mods in the 40s kit

For reference of what's achievable you can see the size, compatibility, and sales of my 40s kit for Aesthetic https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=111589
« Last Edit: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:08:05 by dededecline »

Offline whirlwind

  • Posts: 121
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:07:39 »
Pog

Offline kdam39

  • Posts: 33
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Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:12:46 »
The greatest keeb market. Japan

Offline Inveigh

  • Posts: 1
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:12:54 »
Oh man, I really want one of these. This set looks fantastic!

Offline CaptainVinceO2

  • Posts: 70
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
    • ApexKeyboards
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:13:34 »
Awesome set! Really great seeing more designers going with ePBT. Hope we see some new stuff coming with their 5 side dye sub.

Offline kumori

  • Posts: 83
  • Location: Canada
    • polartype
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:28:40 »
looks really good, i love the side printed legends. glad you kept this on theme :)




Offline falzm

  • Posts: 34
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:32:52 »
I'm in.

Offline Rafa_n

  • Posts: 242
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:34:13 »
another banger, well done zekth

Offline zearoh

  • Posts: 102
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Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 13:40:35 »
Yes please, good stuff!

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 14:02:55 »
Phenomenal

Offline dallman5

  • Posts: 420
  • Location: DC, USA
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 14:11:19 »
really excited for the revival!! will be following closely
LF: OTD 356 Mini, Dalco 959 Mini, OG Cherry APL (lasered), IMSTO BoB, Artisans

Current collection:
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Italics = Incoming, Black = Gone

Offline megaforce

  • Posts: 1061
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 14:19:54 »
Keyset of the year

Corsair K63 Wireless | Razer Huntsman Elite
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Jane V2 | Hokusai | Ogre | RS | Yohane | Mc65 |
LZ MX | LZ FE | LZ CLS TKL Silver |LZ CLS TKL Gray| LZ St | V.EA | Blackbird | LSV3 | OctagonV2 | Norbatouch | X60 | TX84 | Kyuu | SSK | 268.1| Jane CE | Corsair K95 | X60R | HHKB JP x JS HiPro | 910 CE |Nunu |Nunu FE | Jane V2 CE|

Offline Zeelobby

  • Posts: 897
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 14:22:06 »
Really cool. Enough to get me to but ePBT

Offline croatoanlp

  • Posts: 20
  • Location: Germany
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 15:01:41 »
40s / Ortho Kit pls

Offline fropsie

  • Posts: 141
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 15:08:14 »
Nice

Offline LittleAad

  • Posts: 188
  • Hello
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 15:38:37 »
omg the front print, holy cow this is amazing.

Offline Lil

  • Posts: 232
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 15:46:57 »
I'm concerned with your choices of colour references. As someone who likes the original keyset and wants this replica to turn out looking similar; I ask you kindly to please do better. I have shown comparisons between the current and more accurate colour references you could choose instead. There are other greens you could go with - but for example 359 is much too yellow whereas with 2412 it is closer to the right tone and could be made lighter to match the inspiration.

266173-0
266175-1


« Last Edit: Thu, 08 April 2021, 16:00:50 by Lil »
Current project: Ex Visas
Upcoming project: Ex Ecliptica

Typing on: Ex GS/GUGA60 Proto

Offline Chippy

  • Posts: 226
  • Location: USA
  • sus chef
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 15:48:42 »
266177-0

kinda reminds me of this weird set I found a while back, pretty cool.
This and the swiss cheese keyboard is the next generation of keyboards

Offline gilbert

  • Posts: 122
  • Location: Germany
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 15:56:09 »
I'm scared of 5-side dyesub
Typing on: F1.69 - 62g 15mm TX - H1's - 205g0 - Deskeys Films - SAD dyesubs
Collection: F1.69, G80-5K, IDB60 proto, Cypher, Safa S588, Southpaw Fullsize, HHKB Pro2, Zenith G80-1192HAD

Offline zekth

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 350
  • Location: LA FRONCE
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 16:25:51 »
I'm concerned with your choices of colour references. As someone who likes the original keyset and wants this replica to turn out looking similar; I ask you kindly to please do better. I have shown comparisons between the current and more accurate colour references you could choose instead. There are other greens you could go with - but for example 359 is much too yellow whereas with 2412 it is closer to the right tone and could be made lighter to match the inspiration.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

I get your point regarding the colors and there are pictures i stumbled upon on the web regarding this project. The picture you took reference of match more 2412 but eg this one don't : https://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/dr000/auc0504/users/88b341717e82c58d5b7dbcaaec238bd8fcb081d2/i-img1200x900-1554139560iuvx8z4145.jpg

Neither this one: https://i.imgur.com/RPwnfhM.jpg

I tried several times to get one in person but couldn't manage to get a deal. If i could i'd try to match it properly and not base assumptions on pictures.
Green color might be adjusted depending on how bright the dyesub turns out

Speaking of original keyset if you want a real replica the alphas colors doen't match neither not to mention the sublegends.

I'm scared of 5-side dyesub

Like for ePbt - Be The One there will be prototypes before launching the GB.

Offline misononyan

  • Posts: 152
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 16:26:08 »
jis kit?

Offline Buburoo

  • Posts: 48
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 16:43:15 »
I'm concerned with your choices of colour references. As someone who likes the original keyset and wants this replica to turn out looking similar; I ask you kindly to please do better. I have shown comparisons between the current and more accurate colour references you could choose instead. There are other greens you could go with - but for example 359 is much too yellow whereas with 2412 it is closer to the right tone and could be made lighter to match the inspiration.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

jis kit?

+1 Lil's colour concerns
+1 Why no JIS kit if you even make reference to it in the intro?

Offline break

  • Posts: 364
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 16:49:16 »
If this is Weeb Dolch then call me a weeb. Love the historical inspiration behind this set.

I'm concerned with your choices of colour references. As someone who likes the original keyset and wants this replica to turn out looking similar; I ask you kindly to please do better. I have shown comparisons between the current and more accurate colour references you could choose instead. There are other greens you could go with - but for example 359 is much too yellow whereas with 2412 it is closer to the right tone and could be made lighter to match the inspiration.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

I just want to confirm that you're comparing pictures of RAL swatches to pictures of keysets here. Is that right, or do you have all three items (Pantone fan, RAL fan, keyset) in hand?

Offline Magnificent Bureaucrat

  • Posts: 60
  • Sooooo much red tape
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 17:29:35 »
Alphas + sublegends is a bit busy for me but I like the look of the kana option.

(Also is it me or are the rows messed up in the base kit image?)

Offline zekth

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  • Posts: 350
  • Location: LA FRONCE
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 17:46:39 »
Alphas + sublegends is a bit busy for me but I like the look of the kana option.

(Also is it me or are the rows messed up in the base kit image?)

Fixed! Good catch  :thumb:

Offline totalemon

  • Posts: 101
  • Location: australia
  • good morning
Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 17:52:50 »
 :eek: :eek: :eek: can't quite believe how good this looks.. might be an instabuy for me

Offline Zyrophr

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Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 17:53:36 »
Considering 👍
French keyboard streamer

Offline jagger27

  • Posts: 158
  • Location: Canada
  • ne 1.5U supers???
Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 19:05:22 »
Love it. Consider changing Code legends to Super. I appreciate the 2x 1.5U Supers either way though

Offline phedd

  • Posts: 29
Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 19:21:28 »
Really like it but since "Any INTL kit other than UK? Sorry but no" - perhaps offer the mods in a standalone kit too?

I would buy that, and use with alphas from some other kit.

A shame no Norde though :( Why has iso uk become the default iso layout? If only having one, iso de would make more sense. Much more overlap with other European layouts.

Offline Mr_BeastQuake

  • Posts: 598
  • Location: Oregon
    • Reddit
Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 20:00:29 »
Will be joining this, ePBT with ergo support wasnít something I knew existed. Just need some windowed keys now.

Offline kidviddy

  • Posts: 103
  • Location: California
    • 駄日記
Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 22:49:52 »
Wāpuro inputs are standardized through the JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) system of regulation, same concept as ANSI and ISO.

  • Any INTL kit other than UK? Sorry but no

As a couple of others have mentioned, itís a little disappointing not to see JIS support in a set that literally references JIS in its introductory text. I do understand that there is a balance to be weighed between the effort of making a JIS kit and the actual demand for it, but it would be nice to see it at least considered.

Credit where creditís due: at least your kana kit is close to being usable on a JIS board.  You are just one key off for the alphas: please add an R1 ー key. If possible, a 1U backspace would also be required if one wanted to fit these onto an actual JIS board, and even for non-JIS users I think split backspace is pretty popular these days.

  • In the Japanese legend text kit i put 2 sets of enter keys as the top one is directly inherited from the original keyboard and the bottom one is the hiragana version. I have no strong feeling on this choice but i think the hiragana one is more aestheticly pleasing. What's your thoughts?

I donít feel strongly, but I tend to prefer 改行.  The alternative, リターン (katakana rather than hiragana fwiw), looks fine on the ANSI enter key but somehow feels a little cramped on the ISO/JIS enter key. Maybe thatís just me, though. Also the legends seem to be rendered much smaller on the ANSI than the ISO versions?

  • I tried to be as tight as the original project with some modern kitting. Sublegends have been updated also (some were missing). Any comment on those?

It would be useful to see a list of all the sublegends as theyíre a little difficult to go through systematically squinting at the renders.  They mostly look ok; Iím not sure about 上がる and 降りる, though. Page Up and Page Down are more usually 「前ページ」 and 「次ページ」, I think, which could also be spelt 「前頁」、「次頁」 if you wanted to get fancy / fit in with the other two-kanji legends.  If you really want to use 上がる, I feel like the better opposite would be 下がる; 降りる is more like youíre stepping down from a train or something.

Hope thatís of some help, let me know if you have any questions, and good luck with the IC!

Offline Arcoril

  • Posts: 145
  • Location: Southern California
Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 23:43:15 »
Please consider adding a 40s kit and adding 2x 3u spacebars. ePBT 40s kits have had a lot of success and ePBT's MOQ is very friendly to child kits

Seconded on the 3u spacebars. That opens up a lot of flexibility for some Alice/Arisu layouts as well.

Offline zekth

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 350
  • Location: LA FRONCE
Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 02:37:57 »
Wāpuro inputs are standardized through the JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) system of regulation, same concept as ANSI and ISO.

  • Any INTL kit other than UK? Sorry but no

As a couple of others have mentioned, itís a little disappointing not to see JIS support in a set that literally references JIS in its introductory text. I do understand that there is a balance to be weighed between the effort of making a JIS kit and the actual demand for it, but it would be nice to see it at least considered.

Credit where creditís due: at least your kana kit is close to being usable on a JIS board.  You are just one key off for the alphas: please add an R1 ー key. If possible, a 1U backspace would also be required if one wanted to fit these onto an actual JIS board, and even for non-JIS users I think split backspace is pretty popular these days.

  • In the Japanese legend text kit i put 2 sets of enter keys as the top one is directly inherited from the original keyboard and the bottom one is the hiragana version. I have no strong feeling on this choice but i think the hiragana one is more aestheticly pleasing. What's your thoughts?

I donít feel strongly, but I tend to prefer 改行.  The alternative, リターン (katakana rather than hiragana fwiw), looks fine on the ANSI enter key but somehow feels a little cramped on the ISO/JIS enter key. Maybe thatís just me, though. Also the legends seem to be rendered much smaller on the ANSI than the ISO versions?

  • I tried to be as tight as the original project with some modern kitting. Sublegends have been updated also (some were missing). Any comment on those?

It would be useful to see a list of all the sublegends as theyíre a little difficult to go through systematically squinting at the renders.  They mostly look ok; Iím not sure about 上がる and 降りる, though. Page Up and Page Down are more usually 「前ページ」 and 「次ページ」, I think, which could also be spelt 「前頁」、「次頁」 if you wanted to get fancy / fit in with the other two-kanji legends.  If you really want to use 上がる, I feel like the better opposite would be 下がる; 降りる is more like youíre stepping down from a train or something.

Hope thatís of some help, let me know if you have any questions, and good luck with the IC!

Quote
looks fine on the ANSI enter key but somehow feels a little cramped on the ISO/JIS enter key
As the choice of the legend was still uncertain the adjustment of it was a bit rushed down tbh. It definitely is too big for the ISO key indeed.

JIS Compatibility
I really appreciate your feedback and to be fair, I haven't considered JIS compat at first on this set because AFAIK most of the JIS boards are Topre and the user base is pretty tiny, maybe i'm wrong. However your proposal for the JIS compatibility by adding R1 ー and 1U backspace makes sense. Only on Kana kit? Regarding the 1U backspace, JIS has 2 liner legends (see: https://external-preview.redd.it/FYbsYkeL11nP1WZsTipwaYQ0Xj4rAgkDUUVNpDsgQqs.jpg?auto=webp&s=e6f66eca8e3527b16148d717eb527f4b5d40ebde ) but it would not fit with all the one line legends of the set, what about having BACK?

Front legends
I added the table of all the legends you can find on the keyset at the bottom of the first post in the REFERENCES chapter. Feel free to comment/fix those.

Offline zekth

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 350
  • Location: LA FRONCE
Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 02:44:10 »
Really like it but since "Any INTL kit other than UK? Sorry but no" - perhaps offer the mods in a standalone kit too?

I would buy that, and use with alphas from some other kit.

A shame no Norde though :( Why has iso uk become the default iso layout? If only having one, iso de would make more sense. Much more overlap with other European layouts.

If you check closely on the ISO UK kit, it's incomplete because there is no "$ 4 Ä" key due to the japanese sublegend. NorDe kit is full of those kind of keys and it would definitely denaturate the aesthetic of the keyset. As french, if this would have been possible i'd add a AZERTY FR/BE kit too (even if i never use it).

Offline Puree

  • Posts: 61
Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 02:54:56 »
Iso be kit instead of iso uk ?

 :rolleyes:

Offline nvh2092

  • Posts: 490
  • Location: Private luxury toilet
Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 02:56:38 »
I think it's better to have mini space bars (double 3u, alice space bars, etc) in alpha color rather than mod colors. Also, will you consider accent space bars?
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 April 2021, 03:00:12 by nvh2092 »

Offline _PixelNinja

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Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 03:22:37 »
Hi, can you please do better and make this compatible with the Maltron L90 layout?

Offline Surostu

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Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 03:33:15 »
Loving the kitting. Another great set mate!!  :cool:

Offline Lil

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Re: ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 07:50:22 »

Speaking of original keyset if you want a real replica the alphas colors doen't match neither not to mention the sublegends.


This isn't a great reason to use brown-beige for the alphas and a shade of greenish yellow for the sub legends. You're not going to try to make it match?
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Offline RoyalOak88

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Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 08:17:22 »
Let's go!!

Offline kidviddy

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Re: [IC] ePbt - Wapuro - THE REVIVAL
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 10:17:48 »
I really appreciate your feedback and to be fair, I haven't considered JIS compat at first

I understand; thank you for taking the time to consider it now!

AFAIK most of the JIS boards are Topre and the user base is pretty tiny, maybe i'm wrong.

Topre probably gets used in Japan more than most markets, but I would still think of it as a high-end minority.  Filco, for example, which is probably the most well-known "high-end consumer" brand mechanical keyboard, uses Cherry-compatible switches.

You are right that the user base in terms of people who are both into custom mechanical keyboards and prefer to use JIS is quite small at the moment.  I think this is something of a chicken-and-egg problem, as without JIS compatibility becoming more widespread in the custom community, any Japanese users that prefer JIS will be put off, and will either back away from custom keysets entirely and buy one of the many coloured keycaps Filco offers, or give up on JIS and adopt ANSI.  The Japanese mechanical keyboard market is large, but I don't know what proportion of people do the latter vs the former (and I think it's probably impossible to know). For those people that do prefer JIS and are as a result currently put off by the general lack of JIS support, I would like to help make it possible to join the community, especially for sets that directly reference Japanese culture and keyboard history.

Sets like GMK JIS WoB are chipping away at improving the compatibility story, so for GMK hopefully if we can get the moulds made that would make it easier for any other designers going forward to consider JIS support.  I think with ePBT this is a little easier?

Still, full JIS compatibility involves quite a few extra keys, and the jury is still out on how popular it will turn out to be in the long run. All I can ask is that designers like you will consider including support in good faith; I cannot insist upon it.

However your proposal for the JIS compatibility by adding R1 ー and 1U backspace makes sense. Only on Kana kit?

So, to be clear, I have two separate proposals:

  • Add R1 ー to the kana kit and 1U backspace to either kana or base (I think it might as well be base).  This strikes me as extremely easy to do and has become quite common for sets offering kana monolegend kits, so I would like to recommend this quite strongly.
  • Add a JIS add-on kit for those who want JIS support on top of base (i.e. roman+sublegends, not kana monolegends).  This is more involved, but is what would be needed for "full" JIS support. Luckily, there are some examples out there to help guide the kitting:
    • GMK TeraDrive includes a comprehensive JIS kit, including the extra mods and space bars allowing it to be used on a variety of Japanese keyboards.  The legends are based on those from GMK JIS WoB.
    • KAT Great Wave splits its JIS support into two separate kits: one for the alphas, and another for the mods and spacebars.  This demonstrates a more minimal approach, if you only wanted to add JIS alphas but not include the extra 変換/無変換 mods, for example.

The first of these is relatively simple and, I think, uncontroversial.  The second requires more consideration.  I am happy to answer any questions you might have about approaching this JIS kit either here, in DM, or on Discord (kidviddy#3465).

Regarding the 1U backspace, JIS has 2 liner legends (see: https://external-preview.redd.it/FYbsYkeL11nP1WZsTipwaYQ0Xj4rAgkDUUVNpDsgQqs.jpg?auto=webp&s=e6f66eca8e3527b16148d717eb527f4b5d40ebde ) but it would not fit with all the one line legends of the set, what about having BACK?

Yep, I think just "Back" is fine, and that's the approach both of the examples linked above have taken.

Front legends
I added the table of all the legends you can find on the keyset at the bottom of the first post in the REFERENCES chapter. Feel free to comment/fix those.

Thank you, this is helpful.  I'll try to find time to go through them properly, but at first glance the only ones that seem "weird" to me are 上がる and 降りる.  I see that you already have 前頁 (previous page) and 次頁 (next page), which I had suggested in my previous post, on your [: ;] and [" '] keys respectively, so you might not want to reuse them. You also have 頁頭 (page head/top of current page) and 頁末 (page foot/bottom of current page) on your up and down keys, so you have a wealth of page navigation keys available already! I'll see if I can think of any alternative options if I get the chance.

EDIT: And フランスパン obviously, but you probably knew that was weird when you wrote it! :p
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 April 2021, 10:24:41 by kidviddy »