Author Topic: [IC] GMK Gladiator : GB starts April 15th! $129 Base kit with 13 new molds  (Read 42537 times)

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Offline SxM Designs

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"What we do in life echoes in eternity!​"





This set has been inspired by the legends of the ancient Gladiators fighting for their honor and freedom! The major attraction of this set would be the color references to antique heavily patinaed armor, sand and blood.
With the novelties set, bring back the roars of the ancient colosseum to your board and get mesmerized in the battle of the gods. We have included two sets of accents : Sand accents by default represent the arena while the blood red accents (only Novs)
represent the actual battles fought there.

For updates to our current projects and future ones, please join our discord and follow us over Instagram at the links below.

   

Color Matching Steps

To make things easier and faster for GMK to color match, I have been working to get actual color sample in plastic to be produced and sent to GMK. What this will mean is that

A. GMK does not have to match paper color codes to plastic
B. GMKs color matching is really really good and getting a close match plastic to plastic would be definitely faster and more efficient.
C. Hopefully without the need for further color matching rounds, the set would be queued up faster.


This is my way of making sure this is done right. I hope you guys like it.
Also note : This idea is to make sure or try to at least make sure the color matching is faster. It does not necessarily mean that the set will skip the queue.

Samples already made for reference ( Please note these are not with me yet and the pics are taken under bad lighting)



The blue green came out absolutely gorgeous and so did the sandy beige. I will ofcourse revalidate the samples when it reaches me before sending to GMK.







The base set contain 13 new Roman numerals molds. These are R1 1u and hence can be used either in the Numrow or in the F Rows. The Macros introduce Roman numeral macros plus traditional dual colored F Row mods.

Rudis aka Base kit                                                     Spectacula aka Novelties Kit

Columna aka Spacebars                                                        International Kit 

Numeri aka Numpad kit                                                      Armature aka Macros Kit






The Forgotten                                                     The Gladiator
Meandros  



Disclaimer : The keyboards are for visual purposes and are not included in the set. Colors in the final product may vary since renders are done under idealistic artificial lighting.


Dalco 956 by Hand Engineering



Maja by Vulcan



KBD8X MKII by Kbdfans




Nemui by Bachoo



Rotor by PopSmoke









EU        : Mykeyboard.eu         
UK        : Protozoa               
US        : Mechs & Co             
WORLD     : KBDFans               
CANADA    : Deskhero.ca           
OCEANIA   : Daily Clack           
SEA       : Ilumkb                 
KOREA     : Swagkeys               
JAPAN     : Yushakobo             
S.AMERICA : Fancy Customs         

   GB Date : 2022






Presenting our first collab with KeyRelic - > The Corinthian - Solid Bronze Keycap

Hibi X GMK Gladiator (Gold anodised alu)

Prototypes are being made by HIBI and pics will be posted whenever they are done and delivered to HIBI! Hopefully Soon!

Cables will be provided by Keebstuff Kabelmanufaktur and CableMods.

CableMods Cables!

Resin Artisans plus others Collab list coming soon!





If you want to support this project please add this signature and spread the word. Thanks  :thumb:
To add a signature go to Profile -> Modify Profile -> Forum Profile -> Signature


Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=115551.0][img width=600 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/q2J7C9q.jpg[/img][/url]




Special thanks to Finite, Hoang, Sushii, Pnut and a lot of others for helping and supporting me through this!



« Last Edit: Sat, 16 April 2022, 13:30:59 by SxM Designs »

Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 14:58:53 »
Reserved

Offline nvh2092

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 15:02:42 »
 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Offline Samwise

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 15:05:50 »
Nice set. I'll definitely buy a set!
Sam.

Offline Bub

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 15:14:36 »
personally i'd remove the normal latin numbers from base... its a lot of keys to have redundant on, and that's going to add a lot to the price of the kit. The roman numerals are a big driver of theme.

Since you're running separate numpad, be sure to include r1 =

also the nov kit is freakin' huge. I'd consider going a little slimmer to make it more accessible. 5 enter keys and two sets of arrows is a lot.

I have to say, the set's colors hit a little too close to GMK Norse. Maybe a color comparison chart might be nice in this case to show the difference.

« Last Edit: Mon, 06 December 2021, 15:18:14 by Bub »

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 15:37:19 »
Ah, a whole extra novelties numrow in base that one set of can sit in the tray forever instead of 40s compatibility. That makes a ton of sense!
At least my little keyboards won't have to suffer with the centered legends accent numrow.
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 December 2021, 15:47:02 by Kokaloo »

Offline paperassgasket

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 15:38:33 »
cool.

no 40's, no buy.
do love to see dual 3u inclusion though. There's a whole lot of non 40's boards that have that, right?

Offline vishydesigns

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 15:40:02 »
Love this so much, just wish it was dcs or something other than gmk. great renders btw, keycap texture is on point

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 15:59:03 »

Offline AshF

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 16:14:00 »
Love this set especially with that blood red novelties kit. Coming from the UK, it worries me how much kitting I'll end up having to buy...base plus novelties plus spacebar kit plus NUM pad kit. Then a desk mat for good measure. This can make or break a man!!
Hopefully you slim down the kit somewhat but don't loose the blood red kitting...that is just gorgeous.

Sent from my ASUS_I003D using Tapatalk

Offline joro1662

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 16:15:44 »
blue samurai got another round? awesome.

Offline Cylent

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 16:30:24 »
Setting aside the fact that we have seen this colorway multiple times:

-Removing numpad from base in lieu of 2 numrows in base seems questionable.
-you're offering XIII, I assume as a stylized f13, but in a 75/80% it wouldn't line up with the function row. Just make the roman numerals function keys and use regular num row, which would allow 60/65/70% users to chose which number option to use, while keeping consistent with the theme.
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
-you're offering 4 different arrow key options across 3 kits, none of them in red...why? Doesn't make much sense imo

Offline nvh2092

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 16:40:54 »
Setting aside the fact that we have seen this colorway multiple times:

-Removing numpad from base in lieu of 2 numrows in base seems questionable.
-you're offering XIII, I assume as a stylized f13, but in a 75/80% it wouldn't line up with the function row. Just make the roman numerals function keys and use regular num row, which would allow 60/65/70% users to chose which number option to use, while keeping consistent with the theme.
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
-you're offering 4 different arrow key options across 3 kits, none of them in red...why? Doesn't make much sense imo
About that 1.75u novelty, it's caps lock.
About red arrows, I think it's just an secondary accent so arrows are optional

Offline dededecline

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 16:41:51 »
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?

I assume it's meant to be a caps lock novelty, though idk if those are popular enough to warrant inclusion in a GMK child kit

Offline Cylent

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 16:44:31 »
Setting aside the fact that we have seen this colorway multiple times:

-Removing numpad from base in lieu of 2 numrows in base seems questionable.
-you're offering XIII, I assume as a stylized f13, but in a 75/80% it wouldn't line up with the function row. Just make the roman numerals function keys and use regular num row, which would allow 60/65/70% users to chose which number option to use, while keeping consistent with the theme.
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
-you're offering 4 different arrow key options across 3 kits, none of them in red...why? Doesn't make much sense imo
About that 1.75u novelty, it's caps lock.
About red arrows, I think it's just an secondary accent so arrows are optional
Noted ty. I disagree regarding the red arrows though. If you can offer 4 arrow key options and 2 accent options you can afford to offer a red arrow key option.
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 December 2021, 16:48:54 by Cylent »

Offline nvh2092

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 16:45:52 »
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?

I assume it's meant to be a caps lock novelty, though idk if those are popular enough to warrant inclusion in a GMK child kit
Novelty caps lock has been a part of all SxM sets since the beginning.

Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 17:02:47 »
personally i'd remove the normal latin numbers from base... its a lot of keys to have redundant on, and that's going to add a lot to the price of the kit. The roman numerals are a big driver of theme.

Since you're running separate numpad, be sure to include r1 =

also the nov kit is freakin' huge. I'd consider going a little slimmer to make it more accessible. 5 enter keys and two sets of arrows is a lot.

I have to say, the set's colors hit a little too close to GMK Norse. Maybe a color comparison chart might be nice in this case to show the difference.

Thanks for the nice comment :)

I will try to explain myself. Feel free to ask if I am unable to get my points across.

1. Every since I started with the kitting of this set I knew it was going to be tricky. There are a lot of options to considers and not everything can be covered.
   a. If I remove the normal Latin numbers from base --> I would basically be forcing people into using the Roman numerals which I dont really want to.
   b. If I remove the roman numbers and put it in another kit --> Custom colors and molds would drive the price of the kit to around $45+ ( assumption based on my other sets). So a person wanting to buy it would have to spend atleast $150-160 if they want to
       use the roman numerals. The base kit ( since it already contains customs colors and packaging costs are already included), would not really be more. At the end of the day, remember, I did all custom Hieroglyphic legends TKL base for $124.
2. Redundancy of keys : Yes we are adding 13 additional keys to the base. However, the idea is these keys can also be used for F Rows together with the regular num rows. At the end of the day, we always have extra keys lying around in our used sets never to be
    touched again. However, the main issue would be the price to performance ratio. No one would buy a $150 base if there are too many redundant keys but if the price can be kept at the lowest point, then I dont think people would care much.
3. Numpad : I will look into this.
4. Novelty kit : The highlight of all our set so far has been the novelty kit. Now, I really want to keep 2 accents. I am a pure ansi user and hence the mod ansi enter exist along with the accent ones. There is no real way to cut off one of the accents since I want to keep both the accents.
   b . The other way : Make a red accent kit : The same issue of price and logistics exists here. A person would just be spending a lot more if they wanted red accents.

Regarding price : All of our novelties kit has been freaking huge and at a very reasonable price. The goal is to continue that.

5. Norse : Norse has a whole different alphas colors (GMK BV) . Mods colors are close to our alphas but that does not make it same.
The mods in Norse is RAL 220 20 20 while ours is Black (GMK CR). The alphas in Norse is BV while ours is in a different color space. Moreover, The look and theme of both the kits are completely different.
However, We can think about making a comparison chart in the future.

I hope I could address all of your points.

Now, another thing I want to address.
40s kits and why we wont include it.
40s in base would add the price which at the end we want to keep at a minimum.
40s separate kits don't sell.

Here are some logistics from our previous sales :

GMK Pharaoh :  We sold 58 kits --> 100 with extras for a total of 2k kits.
GMK Zen Pond : We sold 29 kits out of  2.3 k total base kits with extras. 40s was cancelled 1 week after GB was over.

The point here is to show that the percentage of people committing to a 40s kit is FAR TOO LESS and this just puts additional pressure on my vendors to buy out the kits.
There also remains the issue of set cancellations. People who buy with the 40s kits gets their order cancelled and then they have to just decide to cancel everything or live without 40s. Additionally every cancellation fees is eaten by the vendors.
I just dont want to put people I am working close with in such a scenario anymore and at the same time not give false hope to the people who want to buy a set with 40s support that end up getting cancelled.

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 17:11:18 »
aw jeez if only there was some solution to getting basic 40s compatibility without having to worry about another child kit hitting moq
maybe the community can come up with something in the future, but for now the technology just isn't there yet

Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 17:26:11 »
Setting aside the fact that we have seen this colorway multiple times:

-Removing numpad from base in lieu of 2 numrows in base seems questionable.
-you're offering XIII, I assume as a stylized f13, but in a 75/80% it wouldn't line up with the function row. Just make the roman numerals function keys and use regular num row, which would allow 60/65/70% users to chose which number option to use, while keeping consistent with the theme.
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
-you're offering 4 different arrow key options across 3 kits, none of them in red...why? Doesn't make much sense imo

a. Gave an explanation already
b. This would mean I would be
    1 . forcing F rows to be novs. Some people might just not like the numerals to be their F rows.
    2. Mod colored 5-8 cant be used in traditional numrow / would not look pleasing. This would in turn mean I have to add 4 extra 5-8 alpha colored novs to make it consistent.
   In total I would be removing 12 standard GMK mold keys ( F rows) while adding 4 extra novs (black) roman numerals (5-8). Hence I am not reducing any price in the kit or even if I do its negligible in my opinion.
c. Standard capslock nov present in all my sets.
d. Novelty red arrows did not look good in the renders and did not pertain to my vision of the set.
    Please leave the feedback in the IC form. If enough people want red arrows I will add normal red arrows to the spacebar kit.

Offline Cylent

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 17:29:36 »

Now, another thing I want to address.
40s kits and why we wont include it.
40s in base would add the price which at the end we want to keep at a minimum.
40s separate kits don't sell.

Here are some logistics from our previous sales :

GMK Pharaoh :  We sold 58 kits --> 100 with extras for a total of 2k kits.
GMK Zen Pond : We sold 29 kits out of  2.3 k total base kits with extras. 40s was cancelled 1 week after GB was over.

The point here is to show that the percentage of people committing to a 40s kit is FAR TOO LESS and this just puts additional pressure on my vendors to buy out the kits.
There also remains the issue of set cancellations. People who buy with the 40s kits gets their order cancelled and then they have to just decide to cancel everything or live without 40s. Additionally every cancellation fees is eaten by the vendors.
I just dont want to put people I am working close with in such a scenario anymore and at the same time not give false hope to the people who want to buy a set with 40s support that end up getting cancelled.

I agree that separate 40s child kits aren't a good idea with GMK, but your explanation for rejecting 3 key that it "adds to the price" is cringe when you opted to have two sets of number row keys in the same base kit (and a whole set of unique molds that will likely be factored into the price), which will increase the cost much more than 3 key.

b. This would mean I would be
    1 . forcing F rows to be novs. Some people might just not like the numerals to be their F rows.
    2. Mod colored 5-8 cant be used in traditional numrow / would not look pleasing. This would in turn mean I have to add 4 extra 5-8 alpha colored novs to make it consistent.
   In total I would be removing 12 standard GMK mold keys ( F rows) while adding 4 extra novs (black) roman numerals (5-8). Hence I am not reducing any price in the kit or even if I do its negligible in my opinion.

1. Some people might not like the numerals to be their number row either, in which case they're eating the cost of 10 novelties anyways
2. Then make the XIII key F13 to be consistent.
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 December 2021, 17:33:23 by Cylent »

Offline Visionaire

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 17:37:05 »
aw jeez if only there was some solution to getting basic 40s compatibility without having to worry about another child kit hitting moq
maybe the community can come up with something in the future, but for now the technology just isn't there yet

Another IC. Another thread of your... antics. If you put as much effort into growing the 40s community as you do in these ICs, maybe there'd be enough purchasing power to warrant the kits.

Offline dededecline

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 17:39:37 »

Now, another thing I want to address.
40s kits and why we wont include it.
40s in base would add the price which at the end we want to keep at a minimum.
40s separate kits don't sell.

Here are some logistics from our previous sales :

GMK Pharaoh :  We sold 58 kits --> 100 with extras for a total of 2k kits.
GMK Zen Pond : We sold 29 kits out of  2.3 k total base kits with extras. 40s was cancelled 1 week after GB was over.

The point here is to show that the percentage of people committing to a 40s kit is FAR TOO LESS and this just puts additional pressure on my vendors to buy out the kits.
There also remains the issue of set cancellations. People who buy with the 40s kits gets their order cancelled and then they have to just decide to cancel everything or live without 40s. Additionally every cancellation fees is eaten by the vendors.
I just dont want to put people I am working close with in such a scenario anymore and at the same time not give false hope to the people who want to buy a set with 40s support that end up getting cancelled.

I don't disagree on cutting child kits that don't make MOQ. However, this is the very reason 3/4 key exists. The guidance generally given is that sets with 500-750 MOQ should utilize 3/4 key in base, and only sets with at least 1000 MOQ should add a 40s child kit since 40s attachment rate on GMK sets tends to be a little over 10% on average. I sympathize that Pharoah and Zen Pond struggled, but given that both had 500 MOQ I don't think anyone worth listening to would have advised those child kits.

Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 17:58:51 »

Now, another thing I want to address.
40s kits and why we wont include it.
40s in base would add the price which at the end we want to keep at a minimum.
40s separate kits don't sell.

Here are some logistics from our previous sales :

GMK Pharaoh :  We sold 58 kits --> 100 with extras for a total of 2k kits.
GMK Zen Pond : We sold 29 kits out of  2.3 k total base kits with extras. 40s was cancelled 1 week after GB was over.

The point here is to show that the percentage of people committing to a 40s kit is FAR TOO LESS and this just puts additional pressure on my vendors to buy out the kits.
There also remains the issue of set cancellations. People who buy with the 40s kits gets their order cancelled and then they have to just decide to cancel everything or live without 40s. Additionally every cancellation fees is eaten by the vendors.
I just dont want to put people I am working close with in such a scenario anymore and at the same time not give false hope to the people who want to buy a set with 40s support that end up getting cancelled.

I don't disagree on cutting child kits that don't make MOQ. However, this is the very reason 3/4 key exists. The guidance generally given is that sets with 500-750 MOQ should utilize 3/4 key in base, and only sets with at least 1000 MOQ should add a 40s child kit since 40s attachment rate on GMK sets tends to be a little over 10% on average. I sympathize that Pharoah and Zen Pond struggled, but given that both had 500 MOQ I don't think anyone worth listening to would have advised those child kits.

I completely agree with you. 1000 MOQ kits are only carried by big name vendors / big name designers. MOQ is decided on the relative hype, market situation and vendor capability. I would say the 40s attachment is no where close to 10% average if big names are not involved.
If I was not trying to add so much flexibility to the base kit and adding new things/ novs, 3/4 keys 40s support is a no brainer. But I am completely traumatized by the support of my two good performing sets (Pharaoh and Zen Pond) from the 40s perspective. Given 1-2% attachment rate to my previous sets, adding even $5 dollars more for 5 -10 people or even less ( assuming this sells 500 sets) is not logical from my point of view. Please note : This is just my experience talking and I have no issues with supporting 40s stuff.

Offline Fraaaan

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 20:32:21 »
2 number rows in base but no numpad, no accented ISO enter, no Alice support and no 40s support. Numpad kit is also lacking r1 '=' an r4 '00' if you want to keep it separated for some reason.

Offline Mecxs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 20:34:16 »
But I am completely traumatized by the support of my two good performing sets (Pharaoh and Zen Pond) from the 40s perspective.

Is this seriously your reason for not doing basic 40 support in base?

I'm not even going to mince words - mate that's straight up pathetic.

I've loved your previous designs, but this comment just made me lose any respect I had for you.

Offline maximize

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 21:16:27 »
Okay, so. The similarity with GMK Blue Samurai is undeniable. I like your legends/accent color and theme more, but I worry that you’ll have trouble meeting MOQ when Blue Samurai is either available in-stock or pre-order on Drop… basically all the time. Have you considered this may be an issue?

Offline paperassgasket

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 21:17:12 »
Y'all stop telling OP to put 40's in base. I don't need an excuse to even consider this set.

Alice B in base with no minibars or numpad 0 to offer support (and forcing spacebars kit purchase), while eschewing 40's is kinda funny though.

Offline fruitykeeb

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 06 December 2021, 21:18:44 »
I don't understand a lot of the choices behind your kitting, so I'll just echo the same stuff a lot of the others have said.

3 numrows is wack.
no 40s at all or ever is such a weird stance to take when 3/4 key exists.
You have the 1u 0 key, so why omit a 1u 00 key? Also missing 1u enter for numpad.
Color choices and kitting for the spacebars is an odd one. I would imagine, since most of the accents are the "Sand Accents", you would include smaller bars in those sizes; instead we get a wide selection of alice/40s bars in dark blue, and dual 3u bars in dark blue (why). Besides Type K, I don't know if there are many other boards that support dual 3u besides 40s.
Two sets of "Sand Accent" arrows, no red arrows.

Lots of.. interesting choices in kitting here.

If it weren't for the lack of 40s and strange spacebars choices, I probably would have bought this set. I really like the color combinations chosen over blue samurai and the roman numerals are pretty neat.
Good luck with the IC, hopefully there are some changes coming.

Offline doggo1dance

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 00:06:25 »
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 00:54:07 »
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

you can't fool me zambuman

Offline paperassgasket

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 02:21:30 »
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.
Just out of curiosity, how many is "so many sets?"
I assume you're referring to GMK since hitting MOQ with any other manu isn't a problem for child kits.
But which sets specifically? Because there's probably a good reason for each of them.
40's as a separate GMK kit doesn't work so great most of the time unless the designer has a focus or really good kitting advice that suits the set. Designers who don't understand 40's kitting will tend to assemble advice from several people into one (probably oversized) kit that winds up adding another 35-40% to the purchase cost.

...even still. You think 40's users don't show up, but I've got 6 sets I'm looking at right now that did just fine. Plus, I don't see any extras 40's kits sitting around in stock anywhere for any set that had to be saved by a vendor buying them out.

All this is kind of a moot point though. Like I said, GMK isn't very child kit friendly due to their cost and how their MOQ works. However, there is an easy solution. For about the price of an ISO enter, you can add a couple or three keys that give physical compat to the majority of 40's.

Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 02:35:07 »
2 number rows in base but no numpad, no accented ISO enter, no Alice support and no 40s support. Numpad kit is also lacking r1 '=' an r4 '00' if you want to keep it separated for some reason.

For a base with new molds, having everything is not a possibility. I have added the accented enters and alice bars in other kits.
Regarding numpad : As I mentioned in my other comment adding = and 00 is not a problem if it is that necessary. This is what an IC is for.


Is this seriously your reason for not doing basic 40 support in base?

I'm not even going to mince words - mate that's straight up pathetic.

I've loved your previous designs, but this comment just made me lose any respect I had for you.

I am sorry you have to feel this way. I have always been transparent towards my actions/choices. But it necessarily does not need/ wont make everyone happy.
3/4 Key 40 support is optional and not mandatory in any base kit. I gave you a reason why I think its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).

Y'all stop telling OP to put 40's in base. I don't need an excuse to even consider this set.

Alice B in base with no minibars or numpad 0 to offer support (and forcing spacebars kit purchase), while eschewing 40's is kinda funny though.

The IC is posted to get feedback on these situations. Custom colored base with extra molds cant have everything. If you feel everything is forced here, I am sorry. I am trying to make the kitting as flexible as possible at the lowest price.
Funnily enough, I have never used 40s but have never shyed away from supporting them. My other 2 kits had seperate child kits while epbt inkdrop has full 40s modifiers support. I am not trying to avoid or deliberately screw anyone here.

I don't understand a lot of the choices behind your kitting, so I'll just echo the same stuff a lot of the others have said.

3 numrows is wack.
no 40s at all or ever is such a weird stance to take when 3/4 key exists
You have the 1u 0 key, so why omit a 1u 00 key? Also missing 1u enter for numpad.
Color choices and kitting for the spacebars is an odd one. I would imagine, since most of the accents are the "Sand Accents", you would include smaller bars in those sizes; instead we get a wide selection of alice/40s bars in dark blue, and dual 3u bars in dark blue (why). Besides Type K, I don't know if there are many other boards that support dual 3u besides 40s.
Two sets of "Sand Accent" arrows, no red arrows.

Lots of.. interesting choices in kitting here.

If it weren't for the lack of 40s and strange spacebars choices, I probably would have bought this set. I really like the color combinations chosen over blue samurai and the roman numerals are pretty neat.
Good luck with the IC, hopefully there are some changes coming.

To reiterate :

1  Numrows : I have given an exact explanation up top why this has been done. I also discussed other kitting scenarios which were not feasible and gave an explanation.
2. 3/4 Key 40 support  is optional in any base kit. I have given an explanation on why its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).
3. 1u 00 keys are not widely used and can often be omitted. If enough people want 00, I can easily add it back. I have not seen/ recall to see a numpad 1u enter ever being done.
4. I think alphas colored mini bars are always preferred over accent colored ones. 3-1-3 is a better option to support in place of 6u off centered and hence.
5. Already answered about red arrows in a comment above. In short : red novs arrows did not look good in renders or pertain to my vision of the set. Normal red arrows can be added to the spacebar kit if enough people want it.

I am okay with changes. I will look into the IC form and analyze in a few weeks and decide from there. If enough people want change, I will definitely try to address them.





Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 02:56:37 »
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.
Just out of curiosity, how many is "so many sets?"
I assume you're referring to GMK since hitting MOQ with any other manu isn't a problem for child kits.
But which sets specifically? Because there's probably a good reason for each of them.
40's as a separate GMK kit doesn't work so great most of the time unless the designer has a focus or really good kitting advice that suits the set. Designers who don't understand 40's kitting will tend to assemble advice from several people into one (probably oversized) kit that winds up adding another 35-40% to the purchase cost.

...even still. You think 40's users don't show up, but I've got 6 sets I'm looking at right now that did just fine. Plus, I don't see any extras 40's kits sitting around in stock anywhere for any set that had to be saved by a vendor buying them out.

All this is kind of a moot point though. Like I said, GMK isn't very child kit friendly due to their cost and how their MOQ works. However, there is an easy solution. For about the price of an ISO enter, you can add a couple or three keys that give physical compat to the majority of 40's.

I completely agree with you on the GMK child kits being annoyingly hard make it work part.
I agree with the solution as well. Its a very well known solution at this point. However, it does cost a bit more than the price of an ISO enter.
Roughly, from what I have seen its a extra $5. Its definitely not a lot.

However, from just actual numbers alone, this would be added to 90-95% of buyers who wont be ever using them.
Now, again from experience, its in our human nature to complain. Some scenarios I would like to explain.

A .No additional numrows novs in base + child kit numrow --> will end up costing more than $150. NO GO
B. Same kitting : Anything above $120-125+, people will start complaining.
C. Same kitting + 40s in base: $130+ and people will start complaining.

Just FYI : There are all guestimates on prices. Adding 3 keys more to the base is not impossible if the GMK quotes are good.

My goal is to make this kitting at the lowest price possible. This has always been my goal with the previous sets. If there is any room to add stuff, I wont hesitate.

Offline not_irc

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 02:57:32 »
This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?

Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 02:59:17 »
This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?

Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.

Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 03:25:12 »
Okay, so. The similarity with GMK Blue Samurai is undeniable. I like your legends/accent color and theme more, but I worry that you’ll have trouble meeting MOQ when Blue Samurai is either available in-stock or pre-order on Drop… basically all the time. Have you considered this may be an issue?

The Blue Samurai has a completely different alphas color and accents. While it uses blue and gold combo, this set uses a very dark teal and light beige/sand combo. I am using a color corrected monitor.
So I dont this this should be an issue.

Offline not_irc

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 03:26:47 »
This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?

Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.

Sorry, I meant adding them to the international package.
For example having the QEM and 4 keys seem quite boring to me. I'll make a suggestion then, later.

About control, shift enter etc, would it make more sense to make them "symbol" only... It kind of ruins the atmosphere, having english words... Not suggesting custom legends because they'll probably be super expensive.




Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 03:59:29 »
This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?

Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.

Sorry, I meant adding them to the international package.
For example having the QEM and 4 keys seem quite boring to me. I'll make a suggestion then, later.

About control, shift enter etc, would it make more sense to make them "symbol" only... It kind of ruins the atmosphere, having english words... Not suggesting custom legends because they'll probably be super expensive.

I will try to address this but looking at GMK kitting and pricing of international kits I can't promise anything.

Icon mods: Icon only mods wont be really fitting in this set nor does it portray the theme of the set / vision I want to achieve here. I think text icon mods looks the best for this set. Its just what I would like for this.

Anyways thanks for the suggestions :) I really appreciate it!

Offline Mecxs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 04:01:03 »
3/4 Key 40 support is optional and not mandatory in any base kit. I gave you a reason why I think its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).

Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.

DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.

Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).

Secondly, it's not $5.

The reason you're not doing 40s support is exactly as you said - you're upset that your previous kits didn't hit MOQ, and instead of reflecting a little bit on the fact that you're new to this and still learning (which is fine - nobody gives a ****, you've been doing well), you decided to vindictively blame the 40s community.

It's childish.

Offline doggo1dance

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 05:27:35 »
3/4 Key 40 support is optional and not mandatory in any base kit. I gave you a reason why I think its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).

Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.

DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.

Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).

Secondly, it's not $5.

The reason you're not doing 40s support is exactly as you said - you're upset that your previous kits didn't hit MOQ, and instead of reflecting a little bit on the fact that you're new to this and still learning (which is fine - nobody gives a ****, you've been doing well), you decided to vindictively blame the 40s community.

It's childish.

playing the victim card again, typical 40s users

Offline Fredington

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 07:59:25 »
Would like to see some crimson accents in base that aren't novelties.

Offline OlaSoySauce

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 10:13:41 »
very nice!

Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 11:03:58 »
3/4 Key 40 support is optional and not mandatory in any base kit. I gave you a reason why I think its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).

Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.

DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.

Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).

Secondly, it's not $5.

The reason you're not doing 40s support is exactly as you said - you're upset that your previous kits didn't hit MOQ, and instead of reflecting a little bit on the fact that you're new to this and still learning (which is fine - nobody gives a ****, you've been doing well), you decided to vindictively blame the 40s community.

It's childish.

All I see here is you circumventing through my comments and logic and seeking a narrative that fits your ideas.

1. I repeatedly stated the point was to make sure 90-95% of the buyers dont pay for a support they dont need in a complicated custom colored GMK set. Notice : the highlighted part. I dont care about DSS/ epbt/KAT and other child kit friendly manu statistics. Stick to the manu of this set. Show me some stats which adhere to your ideas and contradict mine.
2. You go back to the point of me saying I was upset with the 40s sales in the last 2 hyped sets and now I am cauterizing a wound/ "vindictively blame the 40s community"?
   a. I have been pretty open about my ideas and why I do things.
   b. I gave no blame to the 40s community for not meeting 40s MOQ in my GMK sets. **** happens. We all know it!
   c. I was upset because there are some people who would buy a set for 40s support only to be disappointed because the kit did not meet MOQ and now they have to either cancel or live without the desired kit. Adding to this, the vendors are also pressured to
       either buy out or eat the refund costs. These were my reasons for being upset. I dont think I can be more clearer.
 
If it was not GMK, we would not have this conversation. I did 2 complete 40s mods kits for epbt inkdrop (still in IC). If I wanted to have a grudge against the 40s community, trust me, I would not have been bothered to make those for the community.

Lastly, I have already stated this multiple times and wont really explain more --> This is an IC. This is where we make changes. THE GB IS NOT NEXT WEEK. Go fill up the IC form. If enough people want 40s support I wont hesitate to add it.

Offline maximize

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 12:24:50 »
Okay, so. The similarity with GMK Blue Samurai is undeniable. I like your legends/accent color and theme more, but I worry that you’ll have trouble meeting MOQ when Blue Samurai is either available in-stock or pre-order on Drop… basically all the time. Have you considered this may be an issue?

The Blue Samurai has a completely different alphas color and accents. While it uses blue and gold combo, this set uses a very dark teal and light beige/sand combo. I am using a color corrected monitor.
So I dont this this should be an issue.

Ignoring that “completely different” is a significant overstatement, I think you misunderstand what I mean. The general population is going to look at the two and see the similarity, regardless of what you see on your color-corrected monitor. And they will inevitably compare their options. It would be wise to consider that your sales may be impacted by this similar set that is readily available.

Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 12:36:47 »
Okay, so. The similarity with GMK Blue Samurai is undeniable. I like your legends/accent color and theme more, but I worry that you’ll have trouble meeting MOQ when Blue Samurai is either available in-stock or pre-order on Drop… basically all the time. Have you considered this may be an issue?

The Blue Samurai has a completely different alphas color and accents. While it uses blue and gold combo, this set uses a very dark teal and light beige/sand combo. I am using a color corrected monitor.
So I dont this this should be an issue.

Ignoring that “completely different” is a significant overstatement, I think you misunderstand what I mean. The general population is going to look at the two and see the similarity, regardless of what you see on your color-corrected monitor. And they will inevitably compare their options. It would be wise to consider that your sales may be impacted by this similar set that is readily available.

Dont get me wrong. I was just trying to explain the color are different enough. The general sentiment / feedback will come from the Interest Check form. This will help us determine the MOQ which we can easily achieve. It will take a lot of time to actually determine the amount of interest. At the end we should have the info required to go through!
I hope I could explain properly this time.

Online Puddsy

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 12:48:22 »
just covering a couple of things i read above

the 40s people are loud and complain a lot, but they do show up for the keys they want in GMK sets, unlike the ISO people. i think it is worth including 3-key 40s support in either the base or extension kit. it doesn't really make a difference in the price everyone will pay because of how vendors have been doing set pricing these days. it's not like 2017 where everyone was taking a 5% margin and not buying extras.

this set does look like blue samurai with roman numeral numrow, but i've seen sets that look like direct clones run without anyone saying anything so i don't think it matters anymore. clones are bad but i think this fits the bill of "different enough." if you want to keep the rome theme but avoid the clone accusations, you might get far by changing the blue to a purple. i think that would be really nice actually.

it would be good to add a normal numrow kit, or to move the roman legends into their own kit and put regular numbers in the base.
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Offline kkd_20

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 12:52:44 »
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

you can't fool me zambuman

All I see is a grown up man-child screaming for mommy to get him a new toy.
Grow up and learn to respect and communicate with people properly. Bullying a designer is not the correct way. No wonder you guys are so often ignored.



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Offline SxM Designs

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 13:13:50 »
just covering a couple of things i read above

the 40s people are loud and complain a lot, but they do show up for the keys they want in GMK sets, unlike the ISO people. i think it is worth including 3-key 40s support in either the base or extension kit. it doesn't really make a difference in the price everyone will pay because of how vendors have been doing set pricing these days. it's not like 2017 where everyone was taking a 5% margin and not buying extras.

this set does look like blue samurai with roman numeral numrow, but i've seen sets that look like direct clones run without anyone saying anything so i don't think it matters anymore. clones are bad but i think this fits the bill of "different enough." if you want to keep the rome theme but avoid the clone accusations, you might get far by changing the blue to a purple. i think that would be really nice actually.

it would be good to add a normal numrow kit, or to move the roman legends into their own kit and put regular numbers in the base.

1 .40s in base / extensions : I would wait for the first quotes from GMK to actually see if that's possible in the current Kitting. Or, if enough people request it, we can change it asap. As I said, typically with a complex custom colored kit with new molds, the prices would anyways be high (assumption). This being one of the reasons why we chose a separate 40s kit for our last two sets. The goal is to have the lowest price in base kit possible.
Extension kit is also an option we can look into.
We have months of time left for this to actually go into GB. So changes, if necessary and wanted will be made.

2. Changing the color : I am fine with the colors. Everyone will see differently in their monitors and that can't be properly addressed. Since I am aware of the color differences and don't feel comfortable to change the complete color, I wont be doing so. I guess this wont really be an issue.

3. Adding normal numrow or roman legends in their own kit : The main issue here is again "another child kit MOQ" which needs to be met. This would have been the easiest solution. But the main driving factor / attraction here is the roman numerals. Keeping them in base is the cheapest option for most people to get it.

Thanks for the nice feedback. I hope I could answers your points. Nevertheless, this IC is one day old. I would need time to access the IC form responses and see what people actually want.
Then I would be making changes if necessary!!

Offline WithoutWeakness

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 13:28:44 »

Offline WithoutWeakness

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Re: [IC] GMK Gladiator : Welcome to the ARENA!
« Reply #49 on: Tue, 07 December 2021, 13:34:42 »
40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

you can't fool me zambuman

All I see is a grown up man-child screaming for mommy to get him a new toy.
Grow up and learn to respect and communicate with people properly. Bullying a designer is not the correct way. No wonder you guys are so often ignored.

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