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Keyboards / Re: Cherry MX silent discussion.
« Last post by Polymer on Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:36:17 »
I noticed that the travel is slightly less but it isn't a big deal...

For me they feel better than using o-rings...and I agree, they actually feel slightly heavier than they're supposed to be...
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Interest Checks / Re: [IC] OXALYS87 - (Looking for Maker)
« Last post by Nixytheria on Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:30:28 »
Looks good! I'm interested!

Thankyou, don't forget to fill the IC form for our refference

Forget to ask, What color do the case can choose?

For the color will be decide after the IC is finished. Obviously i choose depends on the IC Form. Please make sure that you are fill the IC form. Thank you   :D
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Keyboard Keycaps / Making new keycaps
« Last post by overflow on Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:29:56 »
One of my favorite hobbies is making new keycaps (not completly new one because i used a unusable spare keycaps to make one). sadly I'm so noob to make one that it makes me to put quiet amount of time and effort to get a new keycap.  well but I'm just doing for my satisfaction, so there is no regret about it. 

some may think it's a junk but i call them my treasure (because i made it and took my effort!)  ;D

these pictures shows process to make new keycaps!
(I used old keycaps and epoxy putty for material.)
196322-0
196324-1
196326-2
196328-3
196330-4
196332-5
196334-6
196336-7
196338-8
196340-9
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Other Geeky Stuff / Re: What video games are you currently playing?
« Last post by csmertx on Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:18:57 »
Kinda sad but, I recently 'completed' Mario 64 (85 stars-- :-[). I would not recommend playing through Mario 64 on an original NDS. Yikes.
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Group Buys and Preorders / Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Last post by Vigrith on Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:13:53 »
Also received (and it was active effective immediately on pos Malaysia's site) my tracking for my premium kit a while back.
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Echoing what the above poster said, it seems a bunch of people are believing there is already another round of the Norbaforce in the works, as I was directed here by this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/8lz8me/usca_h_paypal_w_norbaforce_whenever_it_ships/.
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Interest Checks / Re: [IC] OXALYS87 - (Looking for Maker)
« Last post by Createboardhk on Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:00:30 »
Forget to ask, What color do the case can choose?
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Keyboards / Re: Plate vs. Bare PCB
« Last post by ag36 on Fri, 25 May 2018, 06:59:21 »
I feel metal plate is optional with metal case, quieter and damped feel without it. My alps64 and Q100 has no metal plate but with aluminium case and they're fantastic. Also it's easy to mod and lube switches without plate.

Bare pcb with plastic case aren't good.
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Ergonomics / Re: Research feedback for a n00b please
« Last post by JohanAR on Fri, 25 May 2018, 06:51:01 »
The "perfect keyboard" shouldn't apply only to me, but it's also not necessarily a larger group thing. I measure perfect as the keyboard that best satisfies a set of principles or assumptions. That's why I'm starting with (and debating) those principles. I believe that if we could lay down a sufficiently granular design philosophy then the best keyboard for the job just kind of falls out at the end. (Similarly to how Michael White describes his search for the "optimal" keyboard layout @ https://github.com/mw8/white_keyboard_layout. The hard part is the objective function... Once we have that, finding the layout that best fits it is almost automatic).

So for 1), the principle is "Is avoiding double stretching important enough that I'd be willing to sacrifice the 4th row and memorize a more complex layer system?" To which I'd reply yes. So if someone's reply here is "no", then it's no longer the perfect keyboard for them. The thumb section is similar, because the ergodox style clusters are multiple rows for the thumb while the fan is a single row that follows the natural arc of the thumb. So the design question here is "Is completely avoiding thumb stretching [single row] worth being content with e.g. 4 max thumb keys and the more [arguably] silly look of the fan layout". This was/is a more flexible spot for me, but again I'm leaning towards yes.

3) and 4) are more minor concerns in comparison, because they suppose that we already have an "optimal" number of keys per finger, and only fine tune their position. Column stagger seems important to me as it is only a sacrifice for the X axis (which can no longer be straigt at the top/bottom) for a significant gain. My wrists need to be skewed in order to have all 4 fingers in the same row but this skewing means that the columns are no longer straight up. If, however, I want my fingers to be parallel to the columns, then a straight row is not comfortable.
On the other hand, height stagger would mess with the Z axis, hurting portability (and as you said, manufacturing) way more, in exchange for not that much, especially if we calculate with only 3 rows.

As for 6), I'm Hungarian and we have , , , , , Ő, , , Ű. That's 3 columns worth of diacritics, so there's just no way I'm gonna cram those all on the base layer :) Plus I think I'd much rather use an "accent" layer than have a bunch of extra, harder to reach keys because of these. My main problem with losing the 6th columns was return, tab, esc and backspace. But that's where tap/hold separation comes in for a more versatile thumb cluster, so now I'm leaning more and more towards losing the 6th col. What do you think?

Anyway, thanks a lot for the input!

I think the perfect keyboard will look different depending on what you use it for. The perfect keyboard for writing text will not be perfect for programming, and the one made for programming won't be ideal for gaming, and so on. The more you optimize it for one task the less suitable for others it becomes. Make it too generic and it won't be perfect for anything :) I think you would benefit from formulating a goal and specifying which tasks this keyboard should be optimized for and what is unnecessary for you. Some examples off the top of my head:

Programmers are more dependent on numbers and symbols than writers, and I would guess programmers would be more ok with putting localized characters on layers since you mostly program in English. An accountant or a French person might say that all keyboards must have a numpad
If you remove the number keys you might play at a severe disadvantage in many games since you need to switch weapons/control groups quickly. FPS games might require you to hold shift + W and tap space to sprint and jump. Same with Ctrl in some games, to crouch-jump. If you move your hand to WSAD any column staggering becomes wrong.
An experienced Linux user will likely use Ctrl and Alt more than an inexperienced Windows user who uses the mouse for copy-paste. Occasionally Linux users might have to hold Alt + SysRq while typing out REISUB. An Emacs user might say that Ctrl is very important while a Vim user will say that Esc is more important. Some people can't live without Caps Lock while others never use it

Personally I have different keyboards at home and at work because I use them differently. At home there's my Nyquist (6*5 split ortho) which is good for gaming, shorter programming sessions and occasional typing. At work I have an Advantage2 which is very comfortable for longer programming sessions but would be bad for FPS gaming. Both of these could be improved I doubt they could be merged into one perfect-for-everything keyboard.

And in response to your comments regarding 1) 3) and 4) I think it's becoming evident that we (and others in this discussion) have different preferences in what they think is ergonomic and tradeoffs they're willing to make. And based on Hungarian letter frequency, perhaps you're happy to have at least and on the base layer?
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